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As to whether AI art is 'art', that's purely linguistic pedantry and probably belongs in D&D. If a cool rock you found or a pretty flower is a type of 'found art' and a dude welding chains together is a type of 'naive art' or 'outsider art' who the gently caress cares that you call the math problem that spits out a viewable image art, that's fine, sure, whatever It's still gonna be used to lovely ends.
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Sep 30, 2022 14:18
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Shady Amish Terror posted:Yeah, it's very much A Cool Idea In Theory whose main practical application in this hell we live in is destroying the livelihoods of the people whose creative works are being fed into it as seed data. You can recognize it as neat in concept and still acknowledge that it's completely hosed in practice and is going to be used to devalue, currently, the small-time illustrators for news articles and the like (who are already publishing articles with AI-generated images made to mimic the creative work of people those publications used to pay for that labor), and eventually as much creative labor as can possibly be replaced or destroyed. The AI-generated images don't even always have to be good, they just have to be good enough that you don't have to pay anyone and they'll become the norm in any space where that's the case. I guess the issue here is that while some people are arguing as you say, there's a huge swath of people arguing the much less cut-and-dry "the machine cannot create 𝐀rt". The second argument is silly and impossible - who decides what qualifies as art has always been contentious. Unfortunately those voices also crowd the legitimate arguments of the former group. Gumball Gumption posted:I have, What about that highly debated concept which has little to do with the idea of "if a machine is just producing imitation is it art?" The computer doesn't need to have a goal in mind for people to find meaning that is true to them Shady Amish Terror posted:As to whether AI art is 'art', that's purely linguistic pedantry and probably belongs in D&D. What is CSPAM, but the D&D of the soul (also thats literally part of the point of the thread  )Skyl3lazer has issued a correction as of 14:22 on Sep 30, 2022 |
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Sep 30, 2022 14:18
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Pepe Silvia Browne posted:Depends on which way the process is going, I think! If the artist already has something specific in mind this way would be better. So photobashing together reference images. Which is fine, but a different beast than drawing or painting.
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Sep 30, 2022 14:20
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Pepe Silvia Browne posted:No dude I'm not, you're just not reading what I'm actually writing: I've also said multiple times it's a good tool but doesn't produce art on it's own. Skyl3lazer posted:I guess the issue here is that while some people are arguing as you say, there's a huge swath of people arguing the much less cut-and-dry "the machine cannot create 𝐀rt". The second argument is silly and impossible - who decides what qualifies as art has always been contentious. Unfortunately those voices also crowd the legitimate arguments of the former group. That's just creating a pattern out of noise then.
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Sep 30, 2022 14:22
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Gumball Gumption posted:I've also said multiple times it's a good tool but doesn't produce art on it's own. Do you think Photography can be art? Unstaged photography, specifically
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Sep 30, 2022 14:23
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Pink Mist posted:So photobashing together reference images. Which is fine, but a different beast than drawing or painting. Sure, is that not a creative process? Are things created in photoshop also not art now?
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Sep 30, 2022 14:24
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Skyl3lazer posted:What is CSPAM, but the D&D of the soul (also thats literally part of the point of the thread Okay, but I hope you're prepared for the possibility of people arguing for weeks on end a question that has remained contentious for centuries. 
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Sep 30, 2022 14:24
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Shady Amish Terror posted:Okay, but I hope you're prepared for the possibility of people arguing for weeks on end a question that has remained contentious for centuries. mods please make this the cspam hover text
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Sep 30, 2022 14:26
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Skyl3lazer posted:Do you think Photography can be art? Unstaged photography, specifically Yes, because a human is making intentional choices about what they're capturing and how they're framing the image even if it's unstaged. The computer makes no decisions beyond "you want an apple and an apple looks like this because all of the apples I know look like that".
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Sep 30, 2022 14:26
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Gumball Gumption posted:Yes, because a human is making intentional choices about what they're capturing and how they're framing the image even if it's unstaged. The computer makes no decisions beyond "you want an apple and an apple looks like this because all of the apples I know look like that". So what if a human makes intentional choices about what they're prompting and selecting images that match the framing (and other aspects) they want, but instead of through a camera they're getting the images from the computer
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Sep 30, 2022 14:27
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Pepe Silvia Browne posted:Sure, is that not a creative process? Are things created in photoshop also not art now? I’m not saying that’s not art. But drawing/painting have advantages that photobashing can’t replicate. I would argue that drawing something from scratch offers more control for the artist, and Idea Guys will leap at the chance to take that power away from painters Plus, like, do you really think people who employ artists will care enough to photobash and tweak the output? A lot of them don’t want good, just passable.
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Sep 30, 2022 14:28
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Pink Mist posted:I’m not saying that’s not art. But drawing/painting have advantages that photobashing can’t replicate. I would argue that drawing something from scratch offers more control for the artist, and Idea Guys will leap at the chance to take that power away from painters Good thing that this technology will not outlaw pencils and paintbrushes then!
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Sep 30, 2022 14:30
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Gumball Gumption posted:The computer makes no decisions beyond "you want an apple and an apple looks like this because all of the apples I know look like that". This is also about as far as many artists get
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Sep 30, 2022 14:31
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Gumball Gumption posted:That's just creating a pattern out of noise then. Literally what the human brain does.
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Sep 30, 2022 14:40
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Skyl3lazer posted:So what if a human makes intentional choices about what they're prompting and selecting images that match the framing (and other aspects) they want, but instead of through a camera they're getting the images from the computer You're too disconnected from the actual creation in AI art unless you want to start making arguments that also say the commissioner is also an artist because they worked the prompt until they got what they wanted.
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Sep 30, 2022 14:41
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Gumball Gumption posted:You're too disconnected from the actual creation in AI art unless you want to start making arguments that also say the commissioner is also an artist because they worked the prompt until they got what they wanted. Commissioning artwork is literally a collaborative art process so idk what you're saying. Like no, the client isn't "the artist" but to say they have no hand in creating the art is absurd.
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Sep 30, 2022 14:46
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when you think about it the people who pay the artist's salary are the ones who should get all of the credit in the creative process. without the job creator providing an artist a job then there would be no art.
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Sep 30, 2022 14:58
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Skyl3lazer posted:Commissioning artwork is literally a collaborative art process so idk what you're saying. Like no, the client isn't "the artist" but to say they have no hand in creating the art is absurd. My point being that someone manipulating prompts for a computer that can only imitate isn't art. It's really close, it can be part of the art process, but the computers can't produce art, they can't produce it because they're not a human brain and don't function like one, and the role of someone manipulating prompts is closer to the traditional commissioner or sponsor than an artist. For context I already know engineering nerds who are trying to get in house designers fired because now they can make all their own designs with AI art.
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Sep 30, 2022 14:59
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Hey this would be a lot more meaningful if you people who don't know what art is weren't talking about machines that steal existing art and strip them of identifying characteristics the art already happened
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Sep 30, 2022 15:03
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the white hand posted:Hey this would be a lot more meaningful if you people who don't know what art is weren't talking about machines that steal existing art and strip them of identifying characteristics that's not really how that works
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Sep 30, 2022 15:07
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turn off the TV posted:that's not really how that works That's how it works. Machine learning can only imitate, it can't innovate.
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Sep 30, 2022 15:13
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the white hand posted:Hey this would be a lot more meaningful if you people who don't know what art is weren't talking about machines that steal existing art and strip them of identifying characteristics There's no actual image data contained in the weights file these pictures are generated from, otherwise it would be a lot larger than 4GB.
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Sep 30, 2022 15:17
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SplitSoul posted:There's no actual image data contained in the weights file these pictures are generated from, otherwise it would be a lot larger than 4GB. I don't have to know how it steals art, and apparently you don't either, for it to steal art.
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Sep 30, 2022 15:19
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It's a fun and cool tool
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Sep 30, 2022 15:20
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Gumball Gumption posted:That's how it works. Machine learning can only imitate, it can't innovate. the white hand posted:I don't have to know how it steals art, and apparently you don't either, for it to steal art. you are personifying a completely brainless computer program. the art theft happens in the creation of the training dataset used to create it. actual human beings are the ones responsible for the art theft, not this program that just looks at pixels and thinks "if I see red here then there's a 24% chance that there will be a slightly lighter red next to it"
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Sep 30, 2022 15:29
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Great artists steal - therefore the AI is a better artist than anyone based on an unmatched quantity of theft
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Sep 30, 2022 15:31
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Pepe Silvia Browne posted:It's a fun and cool tool Yeah, but I can definitely see the negative potential in a lot of use cases, especially more advanced iterations.
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Sep 30, 2022 15:35
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SplitSoul posted:Yeah, but I can definitely see the negative potential in a lot of use cases, especially more advanced iterations. Oh yeah for sure
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Sep 30, 2022 15:35
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turn off the TV posted:you are personifying a completely brainless computer program. the art theft happens in the creation of the training dataset used to create it. actual human beings are the ones responsible for the art theft, not this program that just looks at pixels and thinks "if I see red here then there's a 24% chance that there will be a slightly lighter red next to it" I think people who are saying it can create art are personifying it a whole lot more than people saying it steals art as a short hand for "The program is just poorly imitating what humans create"
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Sep 30, 2022 15:36
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AI is automating the most creative part of the artistic process instead of the least creative part, this makes little sense to me I would completely buy the “it’s a tool for humans” bit if the goal wasn’t to completely generate (*lovely-looking) images from scratch instead of removing manual labor from the process Pink Mist has issued a correction as of 15:39 on Sep 30, 2022 |
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Sep 30, 2022 15:37
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Pink Mist posted:AI is automating the most creative part of the artistic process instead of the least creative part, this makes little sense to me then you should start using it the way that you think makes more sense! 
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Sep 30, 2022 15:38
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Pepe Silvia Browne posted:then you should start using it the way that you think makes more sense! When they make an AI that can make linework for my sketches and generate lighting based on a sample, I will use it. I have no interest in taking a half-baked image of Jpow as the joker and twiddling with his eyes/fingers until they don’t look uncanny valley anymore. That’s already the worst part of art.
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Sep 30, 2022 15:42
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Pink Mist posted:When they make an AI that can make linework for my sketches and generate lighting based on my sketch, I will use it. I have no interest in taking a half-baked image of Jpow as the joker and twiddling with his eyes/fingers until they don’t look uncanny valley anymore. That’s already the worst part of art. Good news: You can set up Midjourney to input your own reference images already!
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Sep 30, 2022 15:44
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if there haven't been several art sweatshops already set up around re-identifying de-identified DALL-Es and selling them as stock art, I'm disappointed in capitalism
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Sep 30, 2022 15:45
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Pepe Silvia Browne posted:Good news: You can set up Midjourney to input your own reference images already! That doesn’t do what I mentioned. Are you trolling?
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Sep 30, 2022 15:45
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an ai could totally innovate on visual art, in an infinity of ways that hold no meaning or interest to a human being
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Sep 30, 2022 15:46
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the white hand posted:if there haven't been several art sweatshops already set up around re-identifying de-identified DALL-Es and selling them as stock art, I'm disappointed in capitalism There are already NFT market places for AI art. The future is incredible.
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Sep 30, 2022 15:46
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Pink Mist posted:That doesn’t do what I mentioned. Are you trolling? No, it's called "a suggestion".
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Sep 30, 2022 15:46
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it's rough being a fan of something bad. it steals your mind and makes you speak with forced enthusiasm
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Sep 30, 2022 15:46
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Pink Mist posted:That doesn’t do what I mentioned. Are you trolling? Someone drank the Kool aid and their only response to criticism now is "but it's neat  "
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Sep 30, 2022 15:46
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