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Guildhests are that one "we trained him wrong, as a joke" gag except it's MMO content.
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Mar 22, 2024 16:06
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| # ? Apr 27, 2024 20:38 |
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Vitamean posted:Singling this out because it's such an interesting topic to me. quote:After they added the Hall of the Novice, people started asking the devs to add some sort of "Hall of the Intermediates" or something that would teach more advanced party mechanics like the ones you mentioned. The devs acknowledged that people wanted it, but never committed on adding anything to the game. Man, I'm a little surprised at how hard they nerfed ARR, and even the HW/StB stuff has been easier than I recall. As I was running the first part of Castrum Abania last night, I got a phone call I needed to take, and since I was playing with NPCs, who cares, so I just hit mute and talked on the phone. But I got curious as to how long it would take me to die if I did absolutely nothing (as a WAR). At one pull with 6 enemies, I kept thinking this was it, but nope. On the next pull - 5 enemies this time, I had to gather everyone in one place, so that ALL the AoEs - aimed directly at me or not - would hit me, and the last 2 enemies remaining finally got me. And again - only because I positioned myself to deliberately take more damage. Pretty sure unless you do a HUGE double pull and then do nothing, it's downright difficult to get killed in Solo content. Even more hilarious is if you DO get killed, there's a Very Easy option to try again - tripling your health/damage. I can recall the first time I played (StB was the latest at the time), dying a lot more often - particularly to overworld stuff like Hunting Logs. Since I too live in fear of being "that guy", before I Tank something for the first time I will watch a video. But nearly every time I do, I watch and go "so the usual: hit things, don't stand in colors on the floor, pick up adds when they spawn. got it." and think I won't bother for the next one, because of how easy everything has been. (I always forget and watch a video anyway, because stoooooooner).
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Mar 22, 2024 16:28
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I don't think it's so much that earlier content gets nerfed, although the with stat squish in EW that may have been a conscious decision, but potencies and overall power of abilities and toolkits get stronger, not even just numerically, to balance in the latest expansion. Syncing is also a huge thing throughout as well. The first time we all did SB or ShB dungeons or whatever, it was pretty much four people in whatever scraps they had from the past few levels, and probably not even max level for the dungeon. Now the majority of the party is typically synced. Goes a long way to putting some bite back into earlier content.
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Mar 22, 2024 16:33
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quiggy posted:The Guildhests are wildly out of date, but I think the core idea is great. I'd love to see some reworks where the individual Guildhests instances are "the one that teaches you about stack markers" or "the one that teaches you about meteors" or whatever Yeah! Put a baby Behemoth in a guildhest to teach sprouts how to
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Mar 22, 2024 16:46
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FuturePastNow posted:Yeah! Put a baby Behemoth in a guildhest to teach sprouts how to Ultimately this is if anything the point of Labyrinth of the Ancients nowadays. Third Ancient Flare Skip is real but only if you believe! Good for people to learn that.
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Mar 22, 2024 16:49
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Vitamean posted:It's very likely that there's at least one veteran in an duty finder party that can clarify anything, though. Like, I dunno when the very first stack marker appears now (brayflox?) but if someone's too far they'd be able to bring up "hey, we want everyone in this". The tankbuster thing I think works because if a newbie healer is still getting used to their kit they don't want to feel like the party cascading into a wipe is solely their fault just because they didn't manage to prevent the tank from dying just before the boss queued up a tb. There is a ramp up, though, so I think if you keep making those same mistakes as a new player move further along into ARR's mandatory content they'll see the consequences of messing them up start to build. The first stack marker I'm aware of is with Nero. I assumed it was a fancy danger marker and wiped with NPCs a few times until the RNG centered it on someone other than me. People explained it to me later when I was causing party wipes.
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Mar 22, 2024 17:16
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lines posted:Ultimately this is if anything the point of Labyrinth of the Ancients nowadays. Third Ancient Flare Skip is real but only if you believe! Good for people to learn that. What the gently caress, who gets to a third Ancient Flare??
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Mar 22, 2024 17:41
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Ojjeorago posted:What the gently caress, who gets to a third Ancient Flare?? Maybe I'm forgetting how many the normal number is.
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Mar 22, 2024 17:45
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the normal number is two if enough players are doing good damage and (crucially) enough of them believe, you can skip the 2nd one i have definitely died several times because not enough people believed when we clearly had enough to make it
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Mar 22, 2024 17:53
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parasyte posted:the normal number is two Right yeah this is it. Three sessions of damage but you can do two if you believe. The worst is when some believe but some are faithless. It's going to be weird if when we're all synced down from Lv100 it's possible to reliably skip.
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Mar 22, 2024 17:57
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there's so much lost to time/damage increases in ct I wonder what'd happen if people saw them again. CoD snakes or glasya labolas platforms. Hell, glasya labolas' first mechanic. I can't remember the last time I've seen that resolve.
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Mar 22, 2024 18:05
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Attack on Princess posted:The first stack marker I'm aware of is with Nero. Obligatory https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43yi_W4FpG8 Yeah, they've normalized a lot of the markers but they don't always communicate what they do the first time you see them. Vitamean posted:there's so much lost to time/damage increases in ct I wonder what'd happen if people saw them again. CoD snakes or glasya labolas platforms. I remember the first time a Hydra fight went on long enough for me to learn it used Pyretic. I was aghast, I thought that mechanic first showed up in Stormblood.
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Mar 22, 2024 18:39
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HaB posted:Even playing the second time around (just killed Xenos), there are gigantic portions of things I completely forgot because just: too much information at once. I suppose once games are around for that long, and have years of lore built up, it's difficult to figure out how to drop someone who has never heard any of it into the game, because it's difficult to make it NOT feel like you are drinking from the firehose. "too much information at once" "they should add more information into the smith's stuff"  a lot of people learn by doing so there's no much point in trying to explain absolutely everything beforehand I don't know why people think it's such a big deal when people don't know all the mechanics and play perfectly right away. Myself if I'm going to do pve I enjoy when it's messy and chaotic (heck I find it fun to wipe) rather than a perfectly railroaded run where I just have to press my buttons in an endlessly repeating sequence
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Mar 22, 2024 21:11
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They absolutely should have something explaining the various markers in-game. They're getting better at standardizing them and it's really baffling to see some of them with zero other info for the first time.
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Mar 22, 2024 21:16
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There's a lot of things that aren't told to you by anyone but other players that the game could be way better about tutorializing. Basically everything from JoCat's Crap Guide series should be taught in-game somehow - and it's not a lot of info considering that those videos are each five minutes long and most of that runtime is going over what the various classes do. Healers are actually DPS classes, tanks should keep the boss still and facing away from the party (and also use their mitigation skills), you should use your AoE attack on 3 or more enemies, you should try to use your two minute buffs at the same time as everyone else so everyone benefits from them while doing their burst etc etc.
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Mar 22, 2024 21:23
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I'm going through the SHB leveling dungeons for the first time, and I'm finding it difficult to keep up heals on the tank when they're doing big pulls. While they rarely die, I usually have to focus all of my attention and abilities on keeping the tank alive and can't really do any kind of DPS to help take down the many mobs they pull. Is there anything I should be doing to help keep the Tank in a better position? I'm a WHM and up til now I've been fine just keeping Regen up and using lilies as necessary but it almost feels like my lillies are falling off in potency and they barely do anything to restore health. I could be doing more to upgrade my iLevel but I was under the impression that it doesn't really matter until you hit max level content for that expansion anyways
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Mar 24, 2024 00:33
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Simsmagic posted:I'm going through the SHB leveling dungeons for the first time, and I'm finding it difficult to keep up heals on the tank when they're doing big pulls. While they rarely die, I usually have to focus all of my attention and abilities on keeping the tank alive and can't really do any kind of DPS to help take down the many mobs they pull. Is there anything I should be doing to help keep the Tank in a better position? I'm a WHM and up til now I've been fine just keeping Regen up and using lilies as necessary but it almost feels like my lillies are falling off in potency and they barely do anything to restore health. I could be doing more to upgrade my iLevel but I was under the impression that it doesn't really matter until you hit max level content for that expansion anyways I find the ilvl starts mattering midway through the expansion, normally.
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Mar 24, 2024 00:36
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Leveling dungeons are weird in that regard; they do care about gear but it's hard to get gear as you're leveling through them, beyond drops from the dungeons themselves. Their sync is harsher than former level-cap content because the gear range is smaller. On your end, remember that starting with Holy until the cumulative stun resistance wears off is a good 10 seconds of the tank not getting hit AND you contributing damage. Be free with all your off-globals, don't think of something like tetra as an emergency tool. Cure 2/3 is the emergency tool, tetra is your first line of defense. Watch the tank's buff bar if you can, and if they're not using at least 2, maybe 3 cooldowns for a multi-pull, get on their rear end about it. They can contribute as much as you can. Mitigation kits are largely complete by level 70 regardless of job.
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Mar 24, 2024 00:37
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Mister Olympus posted:Leveling dungeons are weird in that regard; they do care about gear but it's hard to get gear as you're leveling through them, beyond drops from the dungeons themselves. Their sync is harsher than former level-cap content because the gear range is smaller. I will second everything said about oGCD heals. They're your primary form of healing at all times and I cannot stress that enough. GCD heals are emergency buttons.
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Mar 24, 2024 01:03
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GilliamYaeger posted:I will second everything said about oGCD heals. They're your primary form of healing at all times and I cannot stress that enough. GCD heals are emergency buttons. WHM Lillies of course are an exception. Regardless, you need to be using your entire toolkit. Use Benediction early and often. Tetra and Asylum should basically never be off cooldown. Even divine benison is almost as strong as a lily spell or cure 2 on a fast cooldown. Leveling dungeons are typically harder than most end game dungeons anyways, so your item level will help out a lot if you give it some attention. And if it's not obvious, your weapon is your single most important piece of gear, even as a healer. Orcs and Ostriches fucked around with this message at 01:20 on Mar 24, 2024 |
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Mar 24, 2024 01:16
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Mister Olympus posted:On your end, remember that starting with Holy until the cumulative stun resistance wears off is a good 10 seconds of the tank not getting hit AND you contributing damage. So what do you mean by this? Do you mean spamming Holy, or just using it once at the start of the encounter? I have been using it during pulls but I don't feel like the stun has always been that strong in mitigating damage, maybe I just need to be more intelligent in how I use it?
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Mar 24, 2024 01:30
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keep in mind that tho "GCD heals are a last-resort" is true it's not unlikely that you're gonna need to pull them out in random leveling dungeons featuring I'm The Main Character tanks and dps so lethargic that the mob pulls stretch dangerously close to two minutes each
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Mar 24, 2024 01:32
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Start with holy. Swiftcast the first one if you can and then just keep spamming it until you can't. You get 4, then 2, then 1 second of stun, even if you cast it while the stun is still active, so you don't need to time it, just keep casting. There are weird edge cases where you actually get more effective time than that too.
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Mar 24, 2024 01:32
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Simsmagic posted:So what do you mean by this? Do you mean spamming Holy, or just using it once at the start of the encounter? I have been using it during pulls but I don't feel like the stun has always been that strong in mitigating damage, maybe I just need to be more intelligent in how I use it? e:f;b Another trick is that you can keep the tank targeted while spamming Holy, so you can throw your OGCD heals on them in between Holy casts. girl dick energy fucked around with this message at 01:37 on Mar 24, 2024 |
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Mar 24, 2024 01:33
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Simsmagic posted:So what do you mean by this? Do you mean spamming Holy, or just using it once at the start of the encounter? I have been using it during pulls but I don't feel like the stun has always been that strong in mitigating damage, maybe I just need to be more intelligent in how I use it? GilliamYaeger fucked around with this message at 01:39 on Mar 24, 2024 |
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Mar 24, 2024 01:37
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Mister Olympus posted:Watch the tank's buff bar if you can, and if they're not using at least 2, maybe 3 cooldowns for a multi-pull, get on their rear end about it. They can contribute as much as you can. Mitigation kits are largely complete by level 70 regardless of job. Just going to echo this one. I see a lot of tanks who seem to think that Rampart and Vengeance/Sentinel/Shadow Wall/Nebula are stuff they should save for emergencies instead of routinely using, and it does make the healer's job a lot harder if the tank isn't using their mitigations properly.
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Mar 24, 2024 01:42
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Speaking of WHM tools, I'm ashamed to say it, but I've mained WHM since ARR and yet I've spent all of Endwalker not knowing what the hell I'm supposed to do with Liturgy of the Bell. It feels like one of those "pop it right before a raidwide and hope you can mitigate another couple raidwides with it" spells.
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Mar 24, 2024 01:43
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Pretty much all healers will want to spam as many aoe attacks in a pull as possible, it's just WHM has a side benefit of their aoe having a stun effect that, effectively, gives the tank about ten seconds of invulnerability (if the enemies are all stunned the tank isn't taking damage). A good healer can speed up a dungeon run very quickly being a green dps, if they can trust their tank and the proper dpses. I'm not a great healer so I usually do more healing than is ideal but I try to keep up with the tanks running the standard multipull.
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Mar 24, 2024 01:45
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Kazinsal posted:Speaking of WHM tools, I'm ashamed to say it, but I've mained WHM since ARR and yet I've spent all of Endwalker not knowing what the hell I'm supposed to do with Liturgy of the Bell. It feels like one of those "pop it right before a raidwide and hope you can mitigate another couple raidwides with it" spells. Even in the worst case, that it triggers on one aoe and then you trigger it, is worth 1200 potency. That's nothing to sneeze at. But there are multiple bosses, from dungeons through all levels of raids, that have attacks that hit multiple times, or cast back to back raidwides. They even use those multi-hit stack markers now and then. It's an ability that really that benefits from knowing what mechanics are and when things like that happen.
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Mar 24, 2024 01:49
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Is Aurum Vale supposed to be a difficulty spike? My White Mage is level 62 and i126, wrapping up ARR. Blind "Leveling Roulette" runs have gone well, but Aurum Vale was rough. I never had that many wipes before. It destroyed my confidence. We were off to a rocky start from the first pull, where in hindsight I should have stuck to the tank to not lose line of sight. That put me on edge for the whole run. I barely understand the fruit mechanic. Should I eat fruit when I recognize the debuff thing, or is it a stacking debuff that it's best to clear later? Does the fruit go to inventory or is it automatically eaten on interaction? I was too flustered to check. And for trash, the tank got chipped hard through regen while mass pulling. I felt I had to Cure 2 before Holy, which spiraled into Cure 2 spam. I didn't dare swiftcast Holy because I wanted instant ress available. Hopefully it was just first time anxiety, but cliff notes are welcome if you have them. Attack on Princess fucked around with this message at 09:17 on Mar 24, 2024 |
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Mar 24, 2024 09:11
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Allow me to reply in meme https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFX9kQJaZr0
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Mar 24, 2024 09:20
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Aurum Vale is definitely a dungeon that trips folks up a lot. It's unusually obtuse at points. It syncs to i49 I think as well. Eat the fruit at two stacks, it's an automatic cleanse when you use the world object. The tank overpulling on it is something the tank should probably recognize -- it's one of two dungeons from that era that you just can not wallpull on because the amount of damage coming in from 2-3 packs is way higher than the output of an ilvl synced healer can counter (the other being Stone Vigil Hard). Plus people will just step in the golden goop and eat poo poo and not recognize cause and effect. Don't sweat it too much. That instance sucks.
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Mar 24, 2024 09:22
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Alright, thank you. That's a relief.
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Mar 24, 2024 09:23
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Stone Vigil Hard is one that annoys me specifically because, as a healer main, tanks will wallpull, we wipe, and the tank goes "heals???????" in party chat, and if I queue in as a tank and get it, and I take it slow, I get bitched at for not wallpulling (because I know wallpulling will wipe us). loving Stone Vigil.
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Mar 24, 2024 09:25
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Attack on Princess posted:We were off to a rocky start from the first pull My choice route is to hug the left wall of the first room, and then pull enemies into the boss room just over the purple line without aggroing the boss. Also a note for you and Simsmagic up the thread a little is that you can be playing great as a healer but if your tank isn't mitigating damage and/or the DPSs are taking unnecessary damage, things may go wrong still. You can do your best to try to keep things together but sometimes you can't fix everything on your own and that's okay. You wipe, run back, and hopefully the other players play a little better next time.
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Mar 24, 2024 10:21
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Aurum Vale is just one of those situations where you just have to take it slow, at least in the first couple of rooms. At least in that one it's common knowledge among experienced players not to push too hard or judge people for small pulls. I've seen successful megapulls in AV and pre-rework Stone Vigil normal but in both cases the tank and healer were both queued together and had a plan going in. Runa fucked around with this message at 10:35 on Mar 24, 2024 |
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Mar 24, 2024 10:31
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Simsmagic posted:I'm going through the SHB leveling dungeons for the first time, and I'm finding it difficult to keep up heals on the tank when they're doing big pulls. While they rarely die, I usually have to focus all of my attention and abilities on keeping the tank alive and can't really do any kind of DPS to help take down the many mobs they pull. Is there anything I should be doing to help keep the Tank in a better position? I'm a WHM and up til now I've been fine just keeping Regen up and using lilies as necessary but it almost feels like my lillies are falling off in potency and they barely do anything to restore health. I could be doing more to upgrade my iLevel but I was under the impression that it doesn't really matter until you hit max level content for that expansion anyways On top of what people have said, I'd note that in particular the level 71 dungeon enemies have surprisingly high damage output, and the level 79 dungeon allows some very spicy megapulls if the tank is that way inclined
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Mar 24, 2024 10:39
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AV (or the first room at least) is like a WoW dungeon that's randomly wandered into FF14.
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Mar 24, 2024 10:56
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For the record a lot of old ARR dungeons used to be, if not nearly as bad, then at least as janky. All of those that were required for the MSQ were reworked relatively recently in order to add Duty Support to them and their rough edges were smoothed out in the process. Aurum Vale did not receive this treatment, as it is technically optional, and its only rework involve adding telegraphs to the second boss.
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Mar 24, 2024 12:36
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I still miss old Coincounter. Four different types of aoe, with no ground visuals. He used to be just as sprout-hungry as the first room. Of all the nerfs that Piss Cave needed, Coincounter Classic was the most fun part, imo.
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Mar 24, 2024 13:19
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