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Bob Heinlein doesn't need anyone to go to bat for him, and yet here I am. Starship Troopers doesn't exist as a blueprint for a utopia, but rather an examination of what happens to a putative democracy when it's under long-term existential threat. War warps society, and Heinlein's naval service during WW2 did nothing towards making him think that everyone would be better off if the military ran everything.
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Sep 30, 2022 19:01
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pantslesswithwolves posted:https://twitter.com/coronarycommie/status/1575588436165402624  I always liked this video essay on the movie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0VeD-WcWx0
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Oct 1, 2022 02:02
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It still blows my mind that the film came out Pre-9/11. It's satire has numerous layers, and the neverending blowback war with the bugs totally fits with a GWOT world- entirely on accident.
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Oct 1, 2022 02:15
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bulletsponge13 posted:It still blows my mind that the film came out Pre-9/11. It's satire has numerous layers, and the neverending blowback war with the bugs totally fits with a GWOT world- entirely on accident. The GWOT forever war was pretty predictable post Persian Gulf. We knew what it was going to look like, just not what would be the inciting incident.
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Oct 18, 2022 10:10
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Kurzon posted:In the novel Starship Troopers by Robert Heinlein, only veterans are allowed to vote. Heinlein believed that veterans would vote more wisely than non-veterans because they understand discipline and sacrifice, which would lead to better governance. But selectorate theory tells me that this would be a terrible idea. I love this drive by shitpost from a terminally ill DND/CSPAM jackass. Didn’t even stick around to engage in conversation either. Just preem aloofness OP.
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Oct 30, 2022 16:45
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I like that he expected us to rally 'round the broken windmill and asking after Kyle.
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Oct 30, 2022 18:15
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No love for the game? It's p good
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Oct 30, 2022 21:22
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The funny part is that he dropped that wall of effortpost without reading enough of the thread or subforum to get that we mostly agree with it
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Oct 31, 2022 05:29
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cspam thinks the police thread is still a place for police to post
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Oct 31, 2022 05:40
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Anyone who's served in the military already knows the government in Starship Troopers would suck/not work. Though tbf it would probably collapse after 5 years due to it being an EPR/OPR bullet based economy trapped in eternal meetings while the person at the computer fumbles around, unable to work the PowerPoint presentation. The person running the meeting also gets mad that the projector hasn't been turned on prior to. Basically, if you're gonna bait us don't use something we'd agree with?
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Oct 31, 2022 20:13
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Imagine the lifetime annual training for voting each year.
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Oct 31, 2022 20:29
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bulletsponge13 posted:Imagine the lifetime annual training for voting each year. "TSgt X, can you tell me why Airman Snuffy failed to report to their scheduled voting location at 0830?" BadOptics fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Oct 31, 2022 |
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Oct 31, 2022 20:36
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it would be like that social media planet from The Orville but instead of downvotes the badge that decides your fate would track how many spreadsheet cells in the world are red, because of you
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Oct 31, 2022 20:43
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 This 25B lost a barfight in the honch and thus wasn't available to fix mission-critical warfighter supporting DNS before Sexual Harrassment Awareness Day. Sentence: Death.
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Oct 31, 2022 20:53
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I still think you guys are missing the biggest joke in the book. The protagonist was to loving stupid to do anything else but infantry.
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Oct 31, 2022 22:49
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Melthir posted:I still think you guys are missing the biggest joke in the book. The protagonist was to loving stupid to do anything else but infantry. Literally everyone he knew was qualified for a job that mattered except him.
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Oct 31, 2022 22:56
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A.o.D. posted:Literally everyone he knew was qualified for a job that mattered except him. Pretty much. And the entire thing is seen through his lovely militaristic eyes. Imagine the point of view from some research scientist or doctor that got their education taken care of by universal education. poo poo they have a pilot that does orbital physics in his head after a botched pick up but poo poo all over this dude. The great joke is that the society he was a part of decided he was so loving dumb that the best thing he could do was be meat for the grinder....and he doubles down and goes officer and enjoyed it.
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Nov 1, 2022 00:34
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I didn’t get to smoke pot in boot.
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Nov 3, 2022 16:04
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Crab Dad posted:I didn’t get to smoke pot in boot. Well don't smoke it out of the boot for sure, that's gonna taste like rear end.
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Nov 3, 2022 16:55
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CommieGIR posted:Well don't smoke it out of the boot for sure, that's gonna taste like rear end. Don't smoke pot in your rear end either.
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Nov 3, 2022 17:00
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Lemniscate Blue posted:Don't smoke pot in your rear end either. 
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Nov 3, 2022 17:01
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Lemniscate Blue posted:Don't smoke pot in your rear end either. You have not lived until you have tried a boofing bong.
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Nov 3, 2022 20:33
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I love that the movie starts with little subversions to their society like Hannah Arendt's picture, while slowing making them more obvious ("Infantry made me the man I am today"). Finally screaming it in your face with Neil Patrick Harris in an SS uniform and make believe super powers.
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Nov 3, 2022 21:15
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The Doogie "We're in it for the species" speech where he yells to his only friends that he will send them to their death owns.
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Nov 3, 2022 21:33
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Terrible in practice, but looks like a good video game! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZGpWhGtolA
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Dec 1, 2022 23:19
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Aw hell yeah a thread about one of my favourite films of all time (plus whatever basic understanding of fascism = bad the OP has come up with as a drive by shitpost). Visually it's an excellent film, the terrible acting from most of the cast (Michael Ironside and Neil Patrick Harris hold it together for sure) works perfectly for the "main characters are indoctrinated morons" aspect of the story, and the Verhoevenian satire is so thick that the scenery chewing is endlessly rewatchable. It amazes me that people genuinely thought the movie was serious about the glory of totalitarianism and civilian disenfranchisement. IMO a Starship Troopers co-op shooter isn't gonna be accurate enough unless I spend the overwhelming majority of it getting horrifically impaled by bugs and subsequently respawning as another nameless underequipped slab of meat screaming jingoistic chants to their death. If they can implement that and make it still a fun Vermintide/Darktide style co-op shooter then I am 120% on board.
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Dec 5, 2022 09:50
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Melthir posted:Pretty much. And the entire thing is seen through his lovely militaristic eyes. Imagine the point of view from some research scientist or doctor that got their education taken care of by universal education. poo poo they have a pilot that does orbital physics in his head after a botched pick up but poo poo all over this dude. The great joke is that the society he was a part of decided he was so loving dumb that the best thing he could do was be meat for the grinder....and he doubles down and goes officer and enjoyed it. Yep, and both his gung-ho hardman pol sci teacher and DI, the people who talked up service to him, are both dumb fucks that give retirement and his position respectively to dive back into the grinder.
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Dec 5, 2022 11:50
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Kazinsal posted:Aw hell yeah a thread about one of my favourite films of all time (plus whatever basic understanding of fascism = bad the OP has come up with as a drive by shitpost). Visually it's an excellent film, the terrible acting from most of the cast (Michael Ironside and Neil Patrick Harris hold it together for sure) works perfectly for the "main characters are indoctrinated morons" aspect of the story, and the Verhoevenian satire is so thick that the scenery chewing is endlessly rewatchable. It amazes me that people genuinely thought the movie was serious about the glory of totalitarianism and civilian disenfranchisement. I mean the RTS opens with that exact scenario lmao
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Dec 9, 2022 04:28
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I invite anyone who believes Heinlein actually espoused the fascism of Starship Troopers to give The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress a read. There are a whopping lot of highly objectionable things Heinlein believed, but fascism wasn't one of them. Starship Troopers is more akin to a simple thought exercise. Or if you want to skip the bad politics and read about power-suit combat, skip Heinlein and read Armor by John Steakley instead.
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Dec 13, 2022 08:04
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rndmnmbr posted:I invite anyone who believes Heinlein actually espoused the fascism of Starship Troopers to give The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress a read. There are a whopping lot of highly objectionable things Heinlein believed, but fascism wasn't one of them. Starship Troopers is more akin to a simple thought exercise. Its a book where world war bug starts because of some john birch type loons tried to convert bugs and got ate. I'm pretty sure the one thing he believes in is big ol tiddies.
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Dec 14, 2022 03:20
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rndmnmbr posted:I invite anyone who believes Heinlein actually espoused the fascism of Starship Troopers to give The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress a read. There are a whopping lot of highly objectionable things Heinlein believed, but fascism wasn't one of them. Starship Troopers is more akin to a simple thought exercise. You can split Heinlein into a few different eras depending on his stories- Starship Troopers has much more in common with Stranger in a Strange Land than it does with Harsh mistress. Thankfully, we don't talk about late era "Really into Incest" Heinlein.
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Dec 14, 2022 06:22
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Fivemarks posted:You can split Heinlein into a few different eras depending on his stories- Starship Troopers has much more in common with Stranger in a Strange Land than it does with Harsh mistress. At the end of it he just wanted to gently caress himself.
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Dec 14, 2022 17:11
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I'm reviving this thread with the encouragement of TheWeedNumber. I abandoned it because it had turned into a geek discussion about sci fi whereas I was looking for a political discussion. Particularly, I wanted to know how veterans felt about this issue, regarding Henlein's view that military veterans are a special breed of men that deserve elevated political privileges. I watched this video on YouTube about Robert Heinlein: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaWMe5nC9SA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8AyxQ-J1no Heinlein, if not an outright fascist, was definitely a pretty authoritarian guy. The video says that Heinlein felt that America was in a state of moral decay because it had lost sight of the values of discipline and sacrifice, and that since military men by virtue of their service understand discipline and sacrifice, they are best suited to rule. Heinlein served in the Navy. The video itself points out that the WW2 governments of Japan, Germany, Spain, and Italy prove that military rule is in fact not ideal, which Heinlein ignores. At the start of this thread, I gave a scientific explanation of why Heinlein's vision of rule-by-veterans would fail based on selectorate theory developed by Bruce Bueno de Mesquita. I posted the same thing in a different thread, but I wanted to know how you veterans feel about this. In a broader context, I also want to address to psychological bugbears that plague too many people. Firstly, lots of people believe in "zero-sum thinking", which means that for someone to have more, someone else must have less. Secondly, a lot of people have a strong need to feel like they're part of a privileged group that receives more than others, and that they dislike egalitarianism if they would have objectively more material wealth in an egalitarian society (this was true of white southerners before the Civil War, who supported slavery even though it actually depressed their own quality of life).
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Feb 9, 2023 17:26
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ST says outright the Veterans has no moral, ethical, or intelligence value more than the civilian- it insinuates the correct point that by and large, Civilians are better than the Veteran. Service also doesn't require military service. The concept was that franchise must be earned to have value; that they aren't picked men, but men who traded worth for value. I don't think you are going to find anyone here who believes that the Veteran is superior to the Civilian in the way you are framing. Our military is made up of the poor, the illiterate, and the patriotic. It runs on assault, caffeine, and a bottomless budget of micromanagement. They do a job that amounts to Subway with Grenade Launchers for an average of 4 years. Nothing about dressing like a clown going hunting makes a person of better character. Service shows nothing more than lack of options, lack of money, or lack of critical decision making.
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Feb 9, 2023 18:04
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Kurzon posted:stuff Have you read the book in question?
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Feb 9, 2023 18:36
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A.o.D. posted:Have you read the book in question? Going off the posts, no. They are basing it off political theory class and Cliff Notes.
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Feb 9, 2023 21:49
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Kurzon posted:Particularly, I wanted to know how veterans felt about this issue, regarding Henlein's view that military veterans are a special breed of men that deserve elevated political privileges. The military shouldn't even be in charge of the military.
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Feb 9, 2023 23:45
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bulletsponge13 posted:Going off the posts, no. bulletsponge13 posted:ST says outright the Veterans has no moral, ethical, or intelligence value more than the civilian- it insinuates the correct point that by and large, Civilians are better than the Veteran. Heinlein says it's that veterans understand discipline and sacrifice. That's what matters, not intelligence or ethics.
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Feb 10, 2023 14:59
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Should we be reacting to posts about your posts instead?
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Feb 10, 2023 15:38
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Kurzon posted:I am basing off that YouTube video. Pretty ballsy to try to argue these points when you haven’t even read the book.
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Feb 10, 2023 16:03
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