Robert Heinlein's Militarist Utopia MOD CHALLENGE PAGE 4

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Internet VFW > Robert Heinlein's Militarist Utopia MOD CHALLENGE PAGE 4

McNally: Sep 13, 2007; Ask me about Proposition 305

Do you like muskets?

Kurzon posted:

a candidate needs at least half of the vote to win

Since when?

# ¿ Sep 25, 2022 17:30

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 19:01

McNally: Sep 13, 2007; Ask me about Proposition 305

Do you like muskets?

What seems to have happened is that OP saw a YouTube video about Heinlein and had to tell people about it.

Kurzon posted:

I just watched a YouTube video on Heinlein.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8AyxQ-J1no

In the novel Starship Troopers, only veterans are allowed to vote. Heinlein believed that veterans would vote more wisely than non-veterans because they understand discipline and sacrifice, which would lead to better governance. But selectorate theory tells me that this would be a terrible idea.

Only 7% of Americans are veterans and therefore only 7% of the American population would have a vote in Heinlein's Utopia. Since voter turnout in elections is never 100% and a candidate needs only a majority of the vote to win, you're talking about presidents winning elections with something like 2% of the population's support. This is what political scientists call a small-coalition regime. In a small-coalition regime, the ruler is incentivized to run a regime oriented towards private rewards. He looks after the interests of that 2% at the expense of everybody else, because he only needs that 2% of people supporting him to stay in power. This will lead to a neglect of public goods. The country will have worse roads, worse education systems, worse healthcare, etc. The people will actually be worse off.

What's more, the veterans themselves won't have it so good either. A feature of small-coalition regimes is that the members of the coalition are always looking to expel members and reduce the size of the coalition, so that the surviving members can have larger fractions of the pie for themselves. So what I imagine would happen is that, over time, the ruler would pass laws narrowing what "veteran" means. He might pass laws saying that only veterans who served a minimum number of years can vote. Or maybe only veterans above a certain rank (eg anyone below captain cannot vote). Or maybe only veterans who served in combat roles. Whatever, the idea is to reduce the number of people who are eligible to vote, thereby reducing the size of the winning coalition. The smaller the coalition, the easier it is for the ruler to hold on to power.

What Heinlein's Utopia will be is what Bruce Bueno de Mesquita calls a junta regime. Small coalition, small selectorate. These kinds of regimes are very unstable. Junta leaders face revolts far more often than dictators or democratic leaders. So Heinlein's Utopia will be lovely for everyone.

Then someone said this

No. No more dancing! posted:

I'm sure GIP posters could tell you better than anyone else just what an absolutely terrible idea it would be.

And apparently OP took this to mean "go tell GIP what you learned"

Frankly, I'm offended that OP just copy/pasted what they wrote in the other thread. Self-plagiarism is still plagiarism and I deem you to have failed this self-assigned homework.

# ¿ Sep 27, 2022 04:50

McNally: Sep 13, 2007; Ask me about Proposition 305

Do you like muskets?

Kurzon posted:

I am basing off that YouTube video.

Heinlein says it's that veterans understand discipline and sacrifice. That's what matters, not intelligence or ethics.

Pretty ballsy to try to argue these points when you haven�t even read the book.

# ¿ Feb 10, 2023 16:03

McNally: Sep 13, 2007; Ask me about Proposition 305

Do you like muskets?

Hey, OP, I'm going to ask that you actually participate in this thread instead of just dropping by with "hey I saw this video about a book I didn't read" which I view as a drive-by shitpost.

# ¿ Feb 11, 2023 21:34

McNally: Sep 13, 2007; Ask me about Proposition 305

Do you like muskets?

Kurzon posted:

I can get my own electronic copy easily enough, thanks.

I think Heinlein's idea that service makes you wiser somehow would be better if applied to leaders, not voters. Selectorate theory tells me that it is bad to disenfranchise people for any reason, whether it be lack of military service or poor education. Leaders are another matter. I in fact think people should be barred from running in elections if they lack education or have a criminal history. If only veterans can serve as leaders, that's OK because as long as they must depend on a broad support base to stay in office, they are incentivized to deliver good public policy.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

Okay, well, that didn't go quite as planned.

Anyway, here's the thing: You dropped by with a post about a book you've never read that you just copy/pasted from somewhere else. Not a great start. Then instead of participating in the conversation you started, you hosed off. When you came back, you admitted you never read the book and then tried loving off again.

That ain't gonna fly.

So here's what we're gonna do. I'm giving you until noon eastern time on Sunday to read the book and tell us what you learned and how what you've read jives with what the video said.

Or you can take an enforced posting vacation.

I told you to come back to this thread and participate. I thought you'd do things like ask questions about the book, not try to make arguments as though you know anything about a book you've never loving read.

# ¿ Feb 14, 2023 17:46

McNally: Sep 13, 2007; Ask me about Proposition 305

Do you like muskets?

bulletsponge13 posted:

I finally listened to the OP video. I'm not sure OP did, since the video makes points he argues against.

lol holy poo poo this keeps getting better and better

# ¿ Feb 14, 2023 18:58

McNally: Sep 13, 2007; Ask me about Proposition 305

Do you like muskets?

My Spirit Otter posted:

none, his head just did that. i call it the no bullet theory

That's mind-blowing.

# ¿ Feb 15, 2023 00:32

McNally: Sep 13, 2007; Ask me about Proposition 305

Do you like muskets?

CainFortea posted:

Also did OP even read any of the book?

OP probably hosed off after making that last post thinking "I'm engaging like I was told to! One more post surely counts!"

# ¿ Feb 19, 2023 18:20

McNally: Sep 13, 2007; Ask me about Proposition 305

Do you like muskets?

bulletsponge13 posted:

Isn't a Mod Challenge failure a permaban?

I doubt it. It may have been once upon a time but nowadays the admins reserve permas for more serious things.

# ¿ Feb 19, 2023 18:21

McNally: Sep 13, 2007; Ask me about Proposition 305

Do you like muskets?

Before anyone wastes money on getting them a custom title, wait for the admins to flush the queue and then wait to see if he spends the ten bux to unban.

# ¿ Feb 19, 2023 21:19

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 19:01

McNally: Sep 13, 2007; Ask me about Proposition 305

Do you like muskets?

TheWeedNumber posted:

Aren�t you restricted from posting in this subforum? Please gently caress off.

Leave the modding to me please.

# ¿ Feb 22, 2023 01:10

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Internet VFW > Robert Heinlein's Militarist Utopia MOD CHALLENGE PAGE 4