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  In 1998, Nintendo and Gamefreak released Pokémon Blue, one of a pair of games that Wait. This feels a little familiar, doesn't it? Let's shake things up a bit.    My name is still girl dick energy, and I'm gonna Let's Play Pokemon Blue again. Kind of. Specifically, I'm going to be LPing Vortiene's PureRGB, a Generation 1 romhack that seeks to, in the creator's own words, "enhance the original games for excellent replayability without bringing in mechanics, moves, sprites, visuals, type matchups, or Pokémon that were introduced in later games". As someone who has played through both Red/Blue and FireRed/LeafGreen dozens of times, this is potentially dream com true for me, and I actually discovered the romhack's existence while looking into the feasibility of doing something just like this myself. And, having peeked at some of the changelog and notes, this looks like exactly the kind of hack I'm interested in playing. Of course, I say 'looks like'... As mentioned in the thread title, this is going to be a semi-blind LP. I've looked at enough of the changes to know what kinds of things to expect, and get a general grasp on the features and the creator's philosophy, but I haven't cracked open the entries on specific Pokemon or moves or anything of the sort yet. This is a unique opportunity for me, replaying a game I love blind, without the wild highs and lows that come with playing a randomizer. (Which is another LP I considered, but decided against.) Unlike my previous LPs, which came from a place of wanting to share something I love with other people, this is me sharing my experiences with encountering something I love in a new form. As I go, I'll be commenting not just on the changes I come across, but how I feel about them, what I'd do differently, and how I think each of these changed Pokemon would do if dropped as-is into the current RBY competitive environment. And as someone who can name the ten best Pokemon in RBY off the top of her head, as well as exactly why each of them are good, I have a lot of thoughts to share. Supposedly, all 151 Pokemon are attainable in this version, so that's going to be my ultimate goal, though I may close up shop earlier if I decide that this just isn't the hack for me. At the very least, I'll be beating the E4 and Champion, and finishing out with a long essay no one will read about my thoughts about what did or didn't work for me. Why PureBlue? Why not Red or Green? Because I played Blue last time with Stadium and that made the joke in the OP flow better. That's literally the only reason. Aside from the opening title screen, the three hacks are identical. Audience participation? To an extent! As I said, I'm playing this for me, so I'll be picking my team based on which Pokemon interest me, but if I can't decide on something, or people want to see the potential of specific mons, I'm all ears. And, since everything is obtainable eventually, now-or-later choices like Starter, Fossil, and Hitmonlee vs. Hitmonchan will all likely be up to a vote. Spoiler policy? Considering that I'm deliberately going into the hack blind, I will be rather put out if someone decides to volunteer information about Pure-specific changes that I didn't explicitly ask for. As for stuff about vanilla RBY? Go for it. For an unblemished look at original Gen 1, I will again take the opportunity to shill Crosspeice's Pokemon Yellow LP. Anything else? Once again, please don't derail with arguments about which generations are best or worst, Pokemon vs. Digimon, etc. Have some chill. On the other hand, if you wanna argue about whether Starmie or Alakazam is the better lead in OU, I'm all in on that. ------------------------------------------- STUFF GOES HERE SOON girl dick energy fucked around with this message at 06:05 on Sep 27, 2022 |
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Table of Contents MORE STUFF GOES HERE Boulder Badge Route 01: ♫ We're On the Road to Viridian City ♫ Route 02: COCK Fights and Forest Nights Route 03: COOL It, KID! Other Info Posts Common Terms/Vocab (Last updated 9/27) Battle Spot 01: Tires Don Exits Battle Spot 02: ROUyalty Other Important Links Vorteine/Vortyne's PureRGB patch (Don't ask where to get the roms, please.  )PureRGB features list and PureRGB Wiki Smogon's "Introduction to Competitive Pokemon" and RBY Battling Guide Fan Art (and Memes) None yet, but... girl dick energy fucked around with this message at 03:37 on Sep 29, 2022 |
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Sep 27, 2022 05:44
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Also reserved!
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Sep 27, 2022 05:44
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Another one!
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Common Terms Not a full glossary, just ones that come up often enough that I should go over what they mean. This post will be updated as I go, but if I mention something and you need a definition, feel free to ask! Check/Counter: The difference between a check and a counter is mostly a matter of degrees, but the simplest way to describe it is that a counter is a Pokemon who can switch in on something without fear and threaten to absolutely dunk on it. Rhydon is so popular in no small part because it is the best counter to Zapdos and Jolteon. A check is a similar concept, but tends to have trouble getting in against that Pokemon, or can't be reckless about challenging it. Alakazam checks Rhydon, able to deal huge damage with Psychic, but also takes huge damage from Earthquake or Rock Slide in return, so throwing down with them is a deliberate commitment or risk you have to take. Coverage: An attack that allows a Pokemon to attack with more types than just its STABs. Pokemon with good STABs can still be stopped cold if they don't have a coverage move that helps them deal with Pokemon that can take them well. Lapras runs Thunderbolt for coverage so it isn't walled by other Water-types (especially Starmie), who resist both Water and Ice. Lead: This one's getting its own update. Lure: A move on a Pokemon that reduces general utility or power of a Pokemon in exchange for improving its match-up against common check or counter. For example, running Earthquake on Snorlax leaves it lacking one of its main moves, but also allows it to easily lure and wreck Gengar, who normally shuts it down hard. Momentum: No, not how fast a Pokemon is moving, this refers to metaphorical, strategic momentum. Are you responding to your opponent's moves, or are they responding to you? Who's dictating whether it's an all-out brawl or a slow, deliberate grind? Do you have three more Pokemon left than your opponent but still feel like you're losing? All of this comes down to who's got momentum, and recognizing and controlling the momentum of a battle is a very important skill in any competitive game. Pivot (Offensive/Defensive): Switching is important in competitive Pokemon. You're not going to leave your Pokemon in against their counters, and you might not want to leave them in against their checks, so deciding when to switch, what to switch to, and when to expect your opponent's going to switch, is a big part of the game. Pivots are Pokemon who specialize in being what you switch to that gives you the most options and the best chance of regaining momentum. - Offensive pivots force your opponent to respond to the switch with their powerful attacks and threatening coverage, while Defensive pivots trend more towards being able to hold the line against a wide variety of threats. Chansey, with its huge HP, good Special, and instant recovery with Soft-Boiled, is the archetypical defensive pivot, while Gengar has great Speed, access to Sleep with Hypnosis, and a Normal immunity, making it a potent offensive pivot. STAB: Stands for Same-Type Attack Bonus. In every generation of Pokemon, including this one, a Pokemon using a move that's the same type they are (for example, an electric type using Thunderbolt), will get a 50% power bonus on the attack. This power bonus can make even seemingly-mediocre stats pull more than their raw numbers suggest. Meanwhile, a lack of good STAB options holds back a lot of potentially-good attackers. Starmie has only 100 Special, while Gengar has 130. So the raw numbers say Gengar's special attacks should be stronger. However, because Starmie is a Water/Psychic-type, when using a Water attack (like Surf) or a Psychic attack (like... Psychic  ), it's hitting as hard as a non-STAB Pokemon with a Special of 150 would. Sweeper/Cleaner: Sweeping is, quite simply, blowing through an unprepared enemy team with fast, damaging attacks, getting KO after KO, and a Pokemon who does this well, like Starmie or Zapdos, is called a sweeper. Cleaning is similar, but rather than having immediate power, a cleaner is slower, bulkier, and generally requires the opponent's team to be softened up and/or paralyzed first. Rhydon, along with being a counter for Zapdos, is also a solid late-game cleaner even against teams without the bird. Like the difference between checks and counters, it's often a matter of degrees, rather than a hard separation, with Tauros in particular sitting right on the line. - A Setup Sweeper is a specific kind of sweeper that uses a stat boosting move, usually Swords Dance or Amnesia, to make itself unstoppably powerful, and then tears through a team. Revenge Killer: Often shortened to RKer or just RK. Because you can switch in a Pokemon for free after something's KOed, the best Pokemon to bring in afterwards is something that both regains momentum and has trouble switching in otherwise, and this is where RKers fit in. Alakazam's got dizzyingly powerful Psychic and is extremely fast, but is also made of wet tissue paper and hates being paralyzed, which makes it very, very hard to switch in safely, so it's often used as a revenge killer. Tank: Halfway between a pivot and a cleaner, a Tank is a Pokemon that drops in, demands your attention, and starts throwing out powerful attacks. Snorlax is defensively bulky and offensively threatening, but it takes a little while to build up momentum and there isn't much that immediately runs in fear of it. It's an only okay pivot because gets worn down easily, and it's not quite strong/fast enough to be a good cleaner, but it’s a hell of a tank. girl dick energy fucked around with this message at 00:54 on Oct 13, 2022 |
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Route 01: ♫ We're On The Road to Viridian City ♫  Intro's the same so far.   Last time, I told Oak my real name, but I'm a bit more careful about this kind of thing these days.   I am a grown-rear end woman and this stupid joke still made me giggle like an idiot.   Everything's the same from the start. I was half-expecting to find something else (or nothing at all) in the PC, but that initial Potion is tradition, so I'm glad it's there.   There are actually a huge number of options in this hack, and they're part of what drew me to it. I'll go through them quickly and what I'm personally doing at the start. If you don't care about any of this, feel free to skip right past, I doubt this is going to be particularly interesting. ===== NOW ENTERING THE OPTIONS ZONE =====  Colors: OG is the originals on the system you're playing. SGB is the expanded palette used on the Super Gameboy, a piece of plastic nearly as old as I am. I experimented with SGB, because it's a neat feature that normally requires quite a lot of finagling, but ended up going to Yellow's palette because the weird tan color of SGB that replaces the normal white keeps making me think I left Flux on. Alt. Pokemon Colors: This is a really fancy one. Pokemon from different areas will have alternate color palettes. It won't change anything statistically, but it's something I never would've even thought of, and it's more content, so of course I'm using it. Audio Pan and Bike Song are audio options that don't matter in an SSLP, but they're both On, for whatever it's worth.  The third page includes options to turn on or off a bunch of Gen 1's weird typing quirks related to Weaknesses, like Fire not resisting Ice, and Bug and Poison both being weak to each other. I'm keeping those all Default, because they're a major part of my experience with RBY. (Moltres would not have taken nearly as long to become a competitive staple if it wasn't weak to Articuno's Blizzard.) The quality of life feature of the Exp Bar is obviously going on for more compact visual information in an SSLP, and NPC EVs (technically Stat XP but let's not get into that right now) is also On to make the game a bit more challenging. I know what I'm doing, I can handle AI trainers that push back.   And finally, the game has a bunch of optional sprite changes, some from other games, some unreleased, and some made just for it. There's not a lot of specific logic to my choices here, just personal preference, trending towards more detailed stuff. Try and spot all the differences! ===== NOW LEAVING THE OPTIONS ZONE =====  Now that all that's taken care of, let's get into the actual game!   You can even store items any time by pressing START on the items menu! Quality of life changes abound! Little improvements like this are all over the place, enough that I didn't bother trying to list them all. I also notice almost immediately that the default walking speed is faster. It's a subtle but REALLY nice change, even before factoring in also being able to run by holding B, and I'm gonna be sad if I end up hating this hack because then I'll have to figure out how to make that happen with the base game on my own. I'll be talking to everyone and checking everything, but probably won't waste a screenshot on it unless it's new and interesting or lets me springboard into another discussion.  Or make me giggle like a five year old.   Ah, right, here we go. Starter choices! This is the first and possibly last time I'm breaking my semi-blind policy about specifics RE: Pokemon difference, and just looking up all the changes in advance, both because this is a major decision, and because it'll be a good example of what kinds of changes to expect in the future. Though I did end up seeing a few other changes while looking at these ones, I'll try not to incorporate them too heavily into my future decision-making. Note: Tiers are fluid and metas change all the time, so some competitive information may eventually be outdated. If that happens, instead of 'well, actually...', instead try 'so, recently...'!  Bulbasaur Current Tier/Niche: Major Changes: More TMs, learns Stun Spore by level-up Venusaur's not a bad Pokemon by any means, it doesn't need a lot of help, and has even flirted with a niche in OU a couple times, so I can't say I'm surprised it's mostly the same. Its 100 Special is extremely solid, and Razor Leaf and Sleep Powder are a powerful combination. Honestly, it's really only held back by sharing a niche with Victreebel, and the very recent unilateral ban on sleep moves in UnderUsed. Strangely, though, it's one of very few Pokemon to get Sleep Powder and Poison Powder by level-up, but not Stun Spore, not even in modern generations where it could theoretically learn it by breeding. That's been changed here, and while it's not a monumental change, paralysis is very, very powerful in RBY and more sources of it is always nice. Final Thoughts: Basically the same Pokemon, but that Pokemon was already good, so no complaints!  Charmander Current Tier/Niche: Powerful offensive pivot/mixed attacker in NeverUsed Major Changes: More TMs, Dust Claw* and Firewall* by level-up *New move added to PureRGB Ah, poor, poor Charizard. It's not a bad Pokemon! 100's a great Speed, and 85 Special isn't awful, plus it's got access to Earthquake and Swords Dance, but it's held back by several factors; a rather unfortunate defensive typing, Fly being banned because of an exploitable glitch, and the existence of Moltres, who's basically just The Cooler Daniel when what you care about is winning. Dust Claw, replacing Fury Swipes, is a weak Ground-type attack, and Firewall is basically Will-O-Wisp, so they don't do much for the poor lizard. Some of the new TMs give it some neat coverage (Thunder Punch would be an interesting way to punish Water-types switching in recklessly) but I'm not exactly blown away. I'll need to see what's happened to Moltres before I say for sure that it's still outclassed, but I'm a little disappointed. Final Thoughts: Not sure what to think. I'd definitely have made it Fire/Dragon, it wouldn't lose any STAB worth caring about, and that'd give it a niche, and an interesting defensive profile. Maybe not good, I dunno if being neutral to Water and only 2x to Rock is worth losing the Earthquake immunity, but interesting.  Squirtle Current Tier/Niche: Bulky Water-type tank in NeverUsed Major Changes: More TMs, Glare and Drain Punch* by level-up *"New" move added to PureRGB I've mentioned in the previous LP that with so many Water-types in Gen 1, they need something unique to differentiate themselves. In raw RBY, Blastoise had to drop down to a tier low enough where its solid-but-unexciting stats, movepool, and typing made it something worth using, while all its competition like Vaporeon, Tentacruel, and Gyarados hang out in UU. Vortiene apparently agrees with me, because holy poo poo, Blastoise with Glare and instant recovery is a terrifying concept. That'd give it the kind of immovability to make it a solid defensive threat, similar to Milotic in later gens. It still wouldn't have a true place in OU, Starmie's just too good at too much, but it'd be usable, something you have to watch out for. Final Thoughts: I like it, it's a good example of how just one or two great moves can really turn an okay Pokemon into a good one. I think maybe Water/Ground typing could've been cool, that'd give it immunity to Thunder Wave, but maybe something else got that.   The vote for who I'll be starting with is at the end of the update, but for now, let's keep the joke in the OP going and honor tradition.   You know how these things go by now. Mash A until somebody dies. I'm not expecting a hack that preserves the old-school feel to dramatically overhaul the tutorial fight. It's a cool chance to show off REBORT's fancy new SpaceWorld97 back sprite, though.   I sully my e-honor and use my starting Potion to win the COCK fight. It's worth a lot of XP and saves me grinding later.   I'll skim a bit through the next part. Not expecting anything too exciting before I can even catch Pokemon.   I did see an Eevee on my way back, though! No idea how rare it was or how hard it'll be to find again. Guess we'll find out.   Another QoL feature, I can access the Map by pressing SELECT on the Pokedex instead of it taking up an item slot. Fancy!     Alright, NOW we're playing Pokemon.   Aside from Eevee, Pidgey and Rattata are also still on Route 1, so I go ahead and catch all three to take a look at them. (Eevee takes several tries because of its naturally low catch rate, even only being level 3.) Same typing and no exciting moves at this level, which is honestly encouraging. I'm not sure I'd have much faith in the hack's balance if a Level 2 Pidgey came with Body Slam and Drill Peck.     Doesn't make for an exciting end of an update, though, so let's check Route 22 while we're here. These changes seem a bit more significant. Meowth with Pay Day right at the start will help significantly with money woes, because I haven't even fought COCK again yet and I'm already out of Pokeballs.   Speaking of COCK, let's see how he's doing, maybe I can shake him down for pocket change.   ...ah.   You know what, he seems busy, I'll come back later.  Next Time: Bugs don't bug, but bees? Maybe. ------ I'm rather eager to begin playing, and it's not exactly a permanent choice, so I won't be leaving this open particularly long. Expect it to close up as soon as something gets a strong lead or I get impatient. Poll closed! girl dick energy fucked around with this message at 23:53 on Sep 27, 2022 |
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Sep 27, 2022 05:45
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Battle Spot 01: Tires Don Exits Full disclosure, this update is a copied and brushed-up/updated post from an abandoned side-feature of the Pokemon Stadium LP, because the same information is relevant here. So, what is a tier? Instead of constant, never-ending, unwinnable debates about which Pokemon are the best and worst, the community has accepted a self-solving tiering system: Pokemon Showdown, the closest thing the community has to an official battle simulator, keeps track of usage stats. And rather than try to evaluate by strengths or winrates, Pokemon tiers are measured by usage percentages. The exact cutoffs vary by generation and are fairly arbitrary, but the effect is the same. Pokemon are ranked vox populi, with the logic that if a Pokemon is good, people will use it more, and if not, they'll use it less. It's far from a perfect system and sometimes Pokemon have to be banned from certain tiers, but it's the best one that's been found so far. In Generation 1, the tiers are as follows:  Ubers: The format with Mewtwo and Mew. You know that scene in an action movie where two people are in a brawl, but are both holding pistols and trying to shoot the other guy and avoid getting shot in return? That's Gen 1 Ubers. Mewtwo and Mew are the only Pokemon banned from OU, the rest of the meta just forms around them.    Over Used: OU. Gen 1 competitive is a fairly niche format, as far as these things go, but OU is the most common of them. This is where anything that isn't specifically banned is allowed. The most-used Pokemon in this format are considered to be OU tier, with Pokemon from lower tiers making occasional niche appearances.    Under Used: UU. A tier for people who are tired of seeing Tauros over and over and over, or want to play with some of their favorites who have absolutely no chance in OU. Anything not OU is allowed here, unless explicitly banned. As of this writing, the only Pokemon in that club is Lapras, who's not quite good enough for OU, but absolutely dominated UU, and so is the sole member of the UUBL 'tier', the UnderUsed Ban List.    Never Used: NU. While common in later generations with their larger pools, having a third tier in Generation 1 is actually a fairly new development, spurred on by a recent resurgence of interest in Generation 1. Not only are OU Pokemon not allowed here, neither are the most common UU Pokemon. Due to Amnesia being far too powerful for the tier, both Poliwrath and Golduck have been explicitly banned from NU, and are thus in the 'tier' known as NUBL.    PU: There's no backronym, just a bad pun. This is for the Pokemon not good enough even for NU, but that people still wanna find a home for. I know basically nothing about this tier, sadly, and it's incredibly new, so even if I did, someone could find a breakaway strat tomorrow and everything could change overnight. You see the pattern by now. Most common NU Pokemon also aren't allowed. Once something gets banned, it'll go into PUBL, which has to be a hell of a dubious honor. As a note, a Pokemon being lower tier does not necessarily mean it's worse! It might just only fit on fairly niche teams, or ones that specifically need something it does better than the OU standard. Machamp, for example, is a worse Rhydon as a cleaner because of its weakness to Psychic and lack of STAB on Earthquake/Rock Slide, and it is currently PU, the lowest tier. However, it also has Low Kick and hits all three of the best Pokemon in OU super effectively with it, letting it get up to some serious paraflinch shenanigans in the high tiers on a team built around enabling that. girl dick energy fucked around with this message at 01:20 on Sep 28, 2022 |
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Sep 27, 2022 06:41
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Would you be interested if I shared information about the official 'VGC' competitive format promoted by the Pokémon Company? It's quite different from the Smogon format, and is completely irrelevant to this game, but I think it might be interesting to some people.
Quackles fucked around with this message at 06:56 on Sep 27, 2022 |
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Sep 27, 2022 06:51
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Is there a place to check the random encounter percentages for this hack? It'd be interesting to compare it to the originals, see how they handled what were originally version exclusives and such
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Sep 27, 2022 06:53
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Quackles posted:Would you be interested if I shared information about the official 'VGC' competitive format promoted by the Pokémon Company? It's quite different from the Smogon format, and is completely irrelevant to this game, but I think it might be interested to some people. Digamma-F-Wau posted:Is there a place to check the random encounter percentages for this hack? It'd be interesting to compare it to the originals, see how they handled what were originally version exclusives and such
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Sep 27, 2022 06:58
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Hello friend! Excited to see what PureBlue has in store! Cabbage toad has been unfairly maligned for far too long, so I am here to support my strong and real friend, the number 1 Pokemon.
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Sep 27, 2022 07:08
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lightrook posted:Hello friend! Excited to see what PureBlue has in store! Cabbage toad has been unfairly maligned for far too long, so I am here to support my strong and real friend, the number 1 Pokemon.  That said, it's actually Squirtle that's taking the early lead in the vote. (Probably because I made it sound the most interesting/different with my evaluation, which isn't really fair to Charizard. Most of the things wrong with 'Zard aren't its fault.) If that's still the case tomorrow, we'll likely be looking at putting a Blastoise in the Hall of Fame.I didn't say it in the OP because I don't like making promises I can't keep, but given the nature of the hack, there's an outside possibility that I'll find redemption for not using Literally Everything in Pokemon Stadium like I promised by finding a viable set for Literally Everything in PureRGB and getting every (fully evolved) Pokemon into the Hall of Fame. If I do, REBORT will get his time to shine. girl dick energy fucked around with this message at 07:39 on Sep 27, 2022 |
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Sep 27, 2022 07:37
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Squirtle is good and my friend. Also, I thought the BL in xUBL was 'borderline' not 'banlist', so I learned something new today already.
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Sep 27, 2022 12:50
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Character getting a ground move early on sounds like a pretty massive change. That let's it punch out some stuff it struggled against in the original. Sounds like it doesn't come early enough for Brock though
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Sep 27, 2022 13:21
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Honestly, if Charmander getting Metal Claw in FR/LG is any indication, between its mediocre attack and Rock types' generally high defense, you're probably better off sticking with Ember, even if it's resisted, over an "[X] Claw" move. Unless Ground is one of the special attack types in Gen 1? I forget.
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Sep 27, 2022 13:31
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Leraika posted:Squirtle is good and my friend. FoolyCharged posted:Character getting a ground move early on sounds like a pretty massive change. That let's it punch out some stuff it struggled against in the original. Sounds like it doesn't come early enough for Brock though Dust Claw would give Charmeleon a solid option against Lt. Surge, though, without having to use up the Dig TM. girl dick energy fucked around with this message at 13:42 on Sep 27, 2022 |
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Sep 27, 2022 13:37
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Commander Keene posted:Honestly, if Charmander getting Metal Claw in FR/LG is any indication, between its mediocre attack and Rock types' generally high defense, you're probably better off sticking with Ember, even if it's resisted, over an "[X] Claw" move. Unless Ground is one of the special attack types in Gen 1? I forget. Eeveeloutions + Dragon are Special in Gen1, so Ground would be keyed to Attack.
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Sep 27, 2022 13:41
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TeeQueue posted:Eeveeloutions + Dragon are Special in Gen1,
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Sep 27, 2022 13:45
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Charmander is like proof pokemon never had original designs. We're all thinking it I'm just saying it. Oh a boring lizard turns into a boring dragon??? Squirtle is a Digimon in the wrong game. Bulbasaur supremacy. E: I'm sorry I only know how to be toxic 😔 😪
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Sep 27, 2022 13:55
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Boba Pearl posted:Charmander is like proof pokemon never had original designs. We're all thinking it I'm just saying it. Oh a boring lizard turns into a boring dragon??? Squirtle is a Digimon in the wrong game. Bulbasaur supremacy. You say that, but all three can learn Toxic  Anyways, I'm here for this. Always love old Pokemon content and their romhacks. and I just started getting interested in its competitive side. Looking forward to seeing what they did to Fire Dog and Data Duck.
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Sep 27, 2022 14:25
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Leraika posted:Squirtle is good and my friend. I went with that too because the Water starters never get the love they deserve in LP's here and also Water is the best
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Sep 27, 2022 14:42
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 I can't sleep, and this is a pretty solid lead, so I'm gonna call it here. Next update coming some time today.
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Sep 27, 2022 15:01
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Aw, missed vote but Squirtle won anyways - Water starter everytime. That said, as someone who never really paid attention to the competitive side of Pokemon reading some of the things here have been complete shocks - Tentacruel considered a good water pokemon (Unless it's purely because of how bullshit Wrap was back in Gen 1 from my memories of it) ? Fly being banned because of a glitch ? What I think is Nidoking in never used ?  I have quite a lot to read about.
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Sep 27, 2022 16:21
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FrenchBen posted:Aw, missed vote but Squirtle won anyways - Water starter everytime. That said, as someone who never really paid attention to the competitive side of Pokemon reading some of the things here have been complete shocks - Tentacruel considered a good water pokemon (Unless it's purely because of how bullshit Wrap was back in Gen 1 from my memories of it) ? Fly being banned because of a glitch ? What I think is Nidoking in never used ? Tentacruel is the best Water-type and arguably the best Pokemon in UnderUsed because of access to Wrap, nice coverage with Blizzard, solid 100 Speed, and, crucially, stupidly high Special of 120 that makes its Surf scary as hell and gives it a surprising amount of bulk even against super-effective Psychics. Fly and Dig are banned in competitive RBY because, in Gen 1, if the user is fully-paralyzed on the charge up turn, they'll stay pseudo-invincible forever. Nidoking is in NeverUsed because it's okay at a lot of things and is a pretty good Ground-type, but Poison is a terrible, terrible typing in Gen 1, and it doesn't hit quite as hard as you'd hope with either Earthquake or its coverage moves because of its mediocre base stats. girl dick energy fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Sep 27, 2022 |
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Sep 27, 2022 16:41
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Hey, no shame about the names. As a dumb kid playing oblivion in the day, we'd name our custom class things like ASSRAMMER and then giggle like loons when the tutorial man goes 'oh, I guess I wasn't that far off.' Thanks for the nostalgia trip though. The idea of obtaining all the pokemon in a single game without trading nonsense does sound appealing, may give the romhack a look.
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Sep 27, 2022 17:21
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I filled out the survey late, but dagnabbit I had notes! But seriously, I am totally along for the ride here
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Sep 27, 2022 17:26
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Ah yes, Gen1 Pokemon games, one of the most broken games ever. I hope all these exploits we know and love are available in this hack.
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Sep 27, 2022 17:28
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I feel like the Venn diagram of "people who haven't named their Pokemon rival something immature and giggled about it like a 5-year-old" and "people who have never played a Pokemon game" is probably a perfect circle.
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Sep 27, 2022 17:29
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FrenchBen posted:Aw, missed vote but Squirtle won anyways - Water starter everytime. That said, as someone who never really paid attention to the competitive side of Pokemon reading some of the things here have been complete shocks - Tentacruel considered a good water pokemon (Unless it's purely because of how bullshit Wrap was back in Gen 1 from my memories of it) ? Fly being banned because of a glitch ? What I think is Nidoking in never used ? But Tauros? The normal pokemon you get fairly late in the game, who doesn't really have any naturally learned moves that jumped off the page? That's arguably the best pokemon in the competitive meta-game? Really? You're making GBS threads me, right? It's understandable once you get the reasoning explained to you but it was definitely a "wait, what the gently caress?" moment first time I heard about that.
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Sep 27, 2022 18:13
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Moved the glossary to its own post and added Revenge Killer to the list of terms, as well as expanding on the difference between offensive and defensive pivots.MagusofStars posted:Tauros being top-tier was the one that surprised me the most. Starmie being awesome I figured out on my own (with an assist from NPC Misty), Chansey and Snorlax because they've got a billion HP and self-healing, psychics overall being dominant was easily noticeable, Rhydon/Golem are physical tanks so makes sense, etc.
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Sep 27, 2022 18:22
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God g1 psychics really skewed the metagame.
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Sep 27, 2022 18:44
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I'll be following this thread because I'll be interested in meta talk about pokemon, especially in a meta that probably was never meant to be competitive but, well, it's not just use Alakazam so I've been interested in the nuances in competitive gen 1. Not to mention this hack seems to be interested in, not putting in a bunch of stuff, but adding in new toys and shaking up what that meta is. That means I get to look forward to see if any mons are better off. I love thinking about pokemetas. Maybe not playing it but it's fun to watch. Anyway, Normal STABs have always had a reputation of being scary to deal with, what with there being exactly two ways to wall it and one way to counter normal types. There's no steel type here, and unless this hack fixes up ghost moves, the one single ghost type can't do much of anything. It adds up. Also subtle color differences depending on region is already making this hack look like a 10/10 in my book.
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Sep 27, 2022 19:38
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Gen 1 meta has always been of interest to me. Not for playing necessarily, but for throwing breadcrumbs at and studying under a microscope. For what it's worth re: Nidoking, it's the undisputed best Pokemon for the R/B speedrun. I do miss the days when RBY NU had Charizard, Venusaur, and Blastoise all viable in the tier, but I guess Venusaur moving up to UU means I can stick it to everyone who called Grass starters bad.
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Sep 27, 2022 21:00
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Faillen Angel posted:I do miss the days when RBY NU had Charizard, Venusaur, and Blastoise all viable in the tier, but I guess Venusaur moving up to UU means I can stick it to everyone who called Grass starters bad. girl dick energy fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Sep 27, 2022 |
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Sep 27, 2022 21:02
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Namagem posted:God g1 psychics really skewed the metagame. The lack of fighting types is less that psychic types were strong, it was that fighting types... kind of sucked. Really, really horribly. Submission was the best fighting type move for most of them and it did crap damage and had recoil. Hitmonlee had a near monopoly on actual fighting moves, a lot of fighting type exclusive moves wound up being normal for some reason. Fighting was just a poor man's normal type.
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Sep 27, 2022 21:26
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Route 02: COCK Fights and Forest Nights Bulbasaur made a noble push, but likely through a combination of being the box art starter and me having the most positive things to say about the changes, Squirtle took the lead. There was also a second question, about what other specific mons people wanted to see, but the results there are much more varied and don't fit neatly into a single image. But rest assured, I did read everyone's answers, and am taking them into consideration.  Anyways, let's get back to where we were before. I was briefly tempted to name this one TORT or FORT or SQUART in honor of BORT, but decided against a name that'd place him, and thus this entire LP, directly in the shadow of the last one. Behavior like that is how you get Chocolate Special.   In the end, I decided I'd use something with a similar sense of humor to my previous choices, as that style of naming is very on-brand for me, but otherwise new and independent.   I can already tell that I'll burn out if I try to catch everything as early as possible, but I want Meowth, and Flareon got by far the most votes in my interest check, so I pick up an Eevee as well. I'll come back and get Pidgey and Rattata sooner or later if I don't catch them somewhere else first.   Back on Route 22, Fearow and Nidoking are two of my favorite Pokemon, so I also pick up a Nidoran and Spearow, though I can't say for sure how long they'll be sticking around. There's going to be a lot of rotating members on this team if I want to even scratch the surface of the full 151.   Old man tutorial is optional! That's a nice change. We'll come talk to him again some day. Apparently there's a certain something that still works without breaking the game in this version...   Now, where were we? Oh, right, Viridian Forest! Layout's the same, but the items have been changed. Five Antidotes instead of one is much appreciated, another little QoL change. I already bought a bunch, but that still saves me some future Pokeball money.   There are a couple more trainers, and they're a bit tougher, too! Neat. We pull through thanks to some Sand Attacks from FOXBOX, but I feel like I might need to do a little bit of grinding...   ALSO RAN is the first to go back in the box, though it's probably temporary. I just really wanna see what they did with the first two bugs...   I don't know if you're more common now or I just got lucky because of the thread title, but I'll take it. (After it also devastates half my team. Either Pikachu got buffed, or Thundershock did. Either way, ow.)   After that little lesson that nothing is safe from the lightning, I decide to do my early-game grinding in the much less precarious Route 1, where the worst thing I have to worry about is Eevee's stronger Tackles and accuracy-dropping Sand Attack being kind of annoying. Quick aside, this is why weak moves need to exist. Thundershock only having 40 Base Power sounds disappointing, until you realize that's before the +50% from the Same Type Attack Bonus from being used by an Electric type, and that if you make it any stronger, that random wild Pikachu's getting a clean 2HKO against not just a same-level Pidgey, but Pidgeotto, Wartortle, and Butterfree. The increased attrition from buffing starting moves would add up very, very quickly.   ZESTY's Pay Day provides a small but consistent payout (2 * Level per use), and I doubt I'll be scrounging for pennies like this forever, but it's a nice early-game boost. (That being said, I'm still not above using ShenanigansTM to give myself more money if it turns into a problem.) I also notice that the low health beep only plays for a few moments instead of looping endlessly. Guess that's the next-best thing to playing a chiptune version of You're In A Pinch! But, aside from a bit of change and a bit of a change, there's not much that this early grind has different from normal RBY, so let'ts-   ...wait, what?   I guess the move changes were more thorough than I realized! Sharpen now increases both Attack and accuracy, giving it the same effect as a move introduced in Generation 5, Hone Claws. (Or, translated literally, Claw Sharpen.) Ha! That's neat. This hack is neat. ...while editing this update, I also realized that Vortiene seems to have removed or delayed Pidgey learning Sand Attack until later, replacing it with Tackle and a newly Flying-type Gust. It's a very good change, and one I never would've thought of. Otherwise, two-thirds of the Route 1 Pokemon would have an accuracy-dropping move and that sounds awful.     Rest of the grinding goes about as expected, though. About an hour of leisurely grinding while watching Youtube later, I'm more than ready for a COCK fight.   Huh. So even his lead Pokemon changes based on my starter choice. This hack really does focus on replayability. Sure am glad I didn't open with STABBY...   FOXBOX opens with a few Sand Attacks until Spearow's accuracy is in the dumpster, then Zesty comes in and throws pennies at the bird until it drops.   Same story again with Bulbasaur, which is even easier given 'saur's lower level and lack of STAB offense. I can't bring myself to be too mean to a lookalike of my son, though, so I mercy kill it with JAVELIN instead of drawing the fight out for a bit more winnings.   You should quit dawdling and get a move on! I know, I know. Jeez, sorry. I just wanna take a quick look and see if I can find any-   Ooh, dick protein! Vitamins like Protein and HP Up increase a Pokemon's stats by increasing their EVs or, in Gen 1 and 2, Stat XP, and apparently their effectiveness is significantly buffed in PureRGB. I go ahead and give this first one to JUICE because he's the only team member I can guarantee will be sticking around for the long haul.   Speaking of the long haul, let's check out the rest of Viridian Forest.   Being slightly higher level doesn't do a whole lot for Caterpie and Weedle's garbage base stats, and Javelin will carve us a path through the woods littered with the corpses of his dinners.   Huh. That's new.   So, trainers have a bit more type variety, but still stay mostly on-brand. Yeah, I can live with that, that's a good change. Means I actually had to switch around a bit.     Ah, right. Poison-types.   Well, two can play at that game.   You know, given Meowth's sprite, I guess it'd be weirder if ZESTY didn't learn Lick.   Just one more guy, let's see what he's got.   Ow ow ow ow ow. That Venonat just nearly obliterated JUICE with a critical hit, super effective Absorb. Very rude.   Yeah, gently caress you, too, buddy.   The warning that they're around and have Absorb would've been nice literally ten steps ago, but thanks, game. Venonat evolves a bit too late to really be worth using right now over all my other options, but I go ahead and catch it anywyas out of respect for what the other one did to me.  And that's the end of Viridian Forest! But I've got a fair bit more grinding to do before I'm comfortable challenging a buffed Brock, so why don't we go ahead and call it here for now?   Next Time: We get rock blocked at the museum. Current Team 
girl dick energy fucked around with this message at 01:34 on Sep 28, 2022 |
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Sep 27, 2022 23:29
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Was the tutorial not always optional? I thought they didn't start making it mandatory 'til later games.
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Sep 27, 2022 23:44
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Gen 1 had it be mandatory, but this was the first of the series so I'm more lenient on it. Now the hack probably could've changed that, but going off of the spoiler text maybe it's a good thing it wasn't. Glad to see Pidgey has something to do early game now!
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Sep 28, 2022 00:09
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I really hope they made Fearow good.
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Sep 28, 2022 00:28
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Battle Spot 02: ROUyalty This update is also a copied and brushed-up/updated post from an abandoned side-feature of the Pokemon Stadium LP. The next one will be new, though. As if this writing, there are thirteen Pokemon in Generation 1 competitive that are considered to be top-tier. OU. You could use just about any of them on a team and, as long as you're at least somewhat strategic about it, you almost certainly won't be handicapping yourself. However, among that baker's dozen, there are three Pokemon that are effectively mandatory: Chansey, Snorlax, and Tauros. They are, unquestionably and without a doubt, the strongest RBY Pokemon who haven't been banned, and any team without all three of them is going to be at a massive disadvantage. There is even a case to be made that your goal with choosing your other three Pokemon should be a strategy to deal with your opponent's Big Three. A boring, one-dimensional case, but a case. First, before we go over each of them individually, let's talk about what they all have in common, which will save me some repeating myself later. 1. Normal types have effectively no weaknesses. It's no secret that the Psychic type is stupidly good in RBY. With Psychic's only weaknesses being basically useless, the absolute dominance of the Special stat, the move Psychic being both highly damaging and having an equally powerful secondary effect, and the abundance of good 'mons to choose from, you'll rarely find an OU competitive team that doesn't have at least one powerful and dangerous Psychic-type. This creates an extremely difficult environment for any Pokemon weak to Psychic, namely Poison and Fighting. There are very few good Fighting-type Pokemon in RBY, and even fewer good Fighting-type moves. Add that on top of all of them having middling speed and mediocre to terrible Special bulk, and you get a type that has almost no chance in OU. This is great news for Normal-types, as it means that the only type that's supposed to beat them is, at best, a rare pick, and at worst, actively detrimental. In short, Psychic good, which makes Fighting bad, which makes Normal better. 2. Body Slam! Body Slam is the best Normal-type attack in the game with the possible exception of Hyper Beam. (More on that when we talk about Tauros.) Not only does it have a solid 85 Base Power and 100% accuracy, it has a 30% chance to inflict paralysis, which is an incredibly powerful status ailment in RBY (and also in general, but especially in RBY.) Not only do Normal-type Pokemon get STAB on the attack, because of a quirk with how the game decides whether to roll for secondary status, Normal-types simply cannot be paralyzed by Body Slam, ever. This means that not only do they not have to fear paralysis in a slugging match, but they can also switch in on a predicted Body Slam and not have to worry about getting halted in their tracks. Body Slam is an excellent Normal-type move, and the best solution to it is usually another Normal-type. 3. Excellent Coverage vs. Rhydon and Gengar Sure, Normals don't have to worry about Fighting-types, but their attacks still get resisted by Rock-types, right? Yes they do. Rhydon is the Rock-type of choice in OU, and it has great physical bulk, which means it doesn't really even fear a super effective Submission, and it's already slow, so the paralysis from Body Slam isn't the end of the world. However, Rhydon's Special bulk is unfortunately much less impressive, and it's weak to Ice because it's also Ground-type. All of the Big Three can learn Ice Beam and/or Blizzard, which they can use to 2HKO Rhydon. The only other Pokemon to not fear Body Slam, Gengar, is also half Poison-type, which means it's also weak to Earthquake. Guess who can learn Earthquake? Surprise, it's Snorlax and Tauros! Chansey can't, but Gengar really hates getting paralyzed and many Chansey sets pack Thunder Wave. So Rhydon gets 2HKO'd by Ice Beam and Blizzard, which all three learn, and Gengar gets 2HKO'd by Earthquake, which both Snorlax and Tauros learn. TL;DR: Fighting bad, Normal good, Body Slam good, coverage good. We got all that? Great. Onto the Pokemon themselves! Snorlax 160 HP, 110 Attack(!), 65 Defense, 65 Special, 30 Speed Common Sets Reflect Tank - Body Slam, Reflect, Rest, Ice Beam Physical Attacker - Body Slam, Hyper Beam, Self-Destruct, Earthquake Mixed Attacker - Body Slam, Blizzard, Amnesia, Rest Snorlax boasts incredible stats for a physical tank, with fantastic HP and Attack, and just-good-enough Defense and Special to be able to weather almost any hit. It is, in fact, the only Pokemon that be called a true Tauros check without needing an asterisk. (There are no Tauros counters.) Snorlax isn't quite as immovable as Chansey is on the special side, but it is an incredibly potent offensive threat, and can either use Reflect to boost its Defense to an effective Base 130 and become an unbreakable physical wall, or Amnesia to boost its Special to an effective Base 130, thus boosting both its bulk and its abilities as a mixed attacker. Ice Beam is only able to 3HKO a full-health Rhydon instead of Blizzard's 2HKO, but the higher PP also allows for a tactic called 'freeze fishing', where you repeatedly use Ice Beam on a bulky target (typically Chansey, Snorlax, or Starmie) until you nail the 10% freeze chance, effectively an OHKO. Meanwhile Snorlax's Self-Destruct is the single most damaging attack in RBY, getting KOs or near-KOs on the entire metagame aside from Gengar, Rock-types, and other bulky Reflect users. Snorlax is neither as powerful as Tauros nor as immovable as Chansey, but it sits in a very respectable middle between them, a reliable, tanky beater game in and game out. Also, it's the best and arguably only real Tauros check. Chansey 250 HP(!!!), 5 Attack, 5 Defense, 105 Special, 50 Speed Common Sets Reflect Wall - Reflect, Seismic Toss, Soft-Boiled, Thunder Wave BoltBeam - Thunderbolt, Ice Beam, Soft-Boiled, Thunder Wave Singer/Gotcha - Sing, Ice Beam, Soft-Boiled, Counter Play enough Pokemon, and it's inevitable that sooner or later, you'll learn just how bulky Chansey can be. However, unlike in later generations, where she merely has an enormous Special Defense of 105, in Generation 1, that is her entire Special stat, giving her the potential for real offensive presence. Soft-Boiled, Chansey's signature move, provides 50% health restore on demand, and is the only mandatory move on a Pokemon that can otherwise freely mix and match between many different options. With Reflect up, Chansey is basically indestructible on both sides of the spectrum without a critical hit. Seismic Toss and Ice Beam are both common attacks, checking or shutting down different Pokemon, with the former guaranteeing it can at least damage almost anything (including Gengar, because Gen 1 is Gen 1), while the latter allows for freeze fishing, a la Snorlax. Thunder Wave, another common choice, provides 100% accuracy paralysis against everything except Ground-types, even Jolteon and Zapdos. Thunderbolt hits Starmie, who otherwise fears nothing but Thunder Wave. Sing can be used for some risky surprise sleep, and even Counter is viable as a cheeky Yu-Gi-Oh trap card to one-shot a Snorlax hitting it with Body Slam. Chansey has a lot of options and they're all about just which flavor of 'impossible to kill' you want it to be, while also having several choices for attack and utility moves. (Fun trivia note, Chansey is one of the few Pokemon who can actually appreciate getting paralyzed, depending on the situation. Downside, it makes Chansey slower than Rhydon, Snorlax, and Slowbro, which can be a problem, as can getting fully paralyzed on what should be a Soft-Boiled turn. However, on the upside, a paralyzed Chansey doesn't need to be afraid of being put to sleep or frozen, which can be extremely useful when trying to wall something that's already faster than it anyways.) Tauros 75 HP, 100 Attack, 95 Defense, 70 Special, 110 Speed Common Sets The Bull - Body Slam, Hyper Beam, Blizzard, Earthquake Anti-Bull Bull - Body Slam, Hyper Beam, Blizzard, Fire Blast gently caress Cloyster In Particular - Body Slam, Hyper Beam, Blizzard, Thunderbolt As you might be able to tell from the sample sets being nearly identical, Tauros has a very well-established niche in Gen 1 Pokemon. It's the Pokemon that almost nothing wants to switch into and that can cleave through entire weakened teams. It's the gun you keep in your back pocket and pull out when you need the upper hand, or the sledgehammer that knocks down a wall. 100 Base Attack is nearly as strong as Snorlax, while its 110 Base Speed outruns the vast majority of the metagame, as well as giving it a formidable 21% critical hit rate. The list of Pokemon who can survive the combination of a STAB Body Slam followed by a STAB Hyper Beam can be counted on one hand, and all of them except Snorlax are either destroyed by a coverage move, or need to have Reflect up (and thus already be in play) and hope you don't hit that 1-in-5 chance of just simply demolishing them. This is in no small part because of an incredibly important bug in RBY: If Hyper Beam KOs the opponent's Pokemon, the recharge turn will be skipped. Thus, rather than being a gimmicky finishing move, Hyper Beam is a horrendously effective and powerful STAB attack. Blizzard is the standard third, cleanly 2HKOing Rhydon and Golem, who otherwise stop it cold. The usual fourth move is Earthquake, which 2HKOs Gengar. However, Fire Blast's 30% burn chance can be used to lure and neuter the opponent's Tauros, a Pokemon you can guarantee your opponent will also be running. Thunderbolt is only really useful for Cloyster, but for some teams, that might be worth it, because against sets without TBolt, Cloyster is the second-best Tauros check in OU. This decision isn't trivial, either, as while Tauros is an offensive juggernaut, its defenses are actually quite average, so it doesn't want to get into long, protracted battles, and getting paralyzed or burned shuts it down almost completely. Tauros is the King of OU, a Pokemon with no sure counters and very few checks, and the win condition of many, many battles. So, there you have it. The immovable object, the unstoppable force, and the... other immovable object, which can also be an unstoppable force. Next Battle Spot: The Lead Metagame!   
girl dick energy fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Sep 28, 2022 |
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Sep 28, 2022 00:36
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