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The long and proud tradition of auto-sports creative rule-bending continues. See: Ferrari with their extra special fuel pump that "technically" wasn't in violation in F1
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Oct 31, 2022 17:56
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LongDarkNight posted:Please let this go down in history as the Year of Four Prime Ministers. Oh God please yes.
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Oct 31, 2022 18:02
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hypnophant posted:poo poo. twenty years ago Twenty years ago (as in, 2002) StormFront was quite active and was a concern beyond "fringe", even with the lower numbers compared to now when so many people are connected online. SF was a bridge between communities, for every member that was online there were was a fuckload more of them meeting in backyards and parks for barbeques and coordinating. No offense intended, but it kind of feels like you're looking back at a period with a slanted nostalgic view because you were unaware of the garbage at the time, much like how youngin's decide that an arbitrary prior year was "better" based on what they've learned from media or what they remember from being young. An idyllic picture is formed that is false and incomplete.
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Oct 31, 2022 18:14
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LongDarkNight posted:Please let this go down in history as the Year of Four Prime Ministers. Larry hasn't been giving two shits for a while now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nM6AVFYj84c
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Oct 31, 2022 18:40
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kupachek posted:Twenty years ago (as in, 2002) StormFront was quite active and was a concern beyond "fringe", even with the lower numbers compared to now when so many people are connected online. SF was a bridge between communities, for every member that was online there were was a fuckload more of them meeting in backyards and parks for barbeques and coordinating. That and 2002 was only 7 years after OKC and really the whole militia movement (who are basically one and the same see: The Turner Diaries which McVeigh was a fan of) didn't fall off the radar until post 9/11 though most people at the time pointed out that was also because the Bush admin stopped tracking them....
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Oct 31, 2022 18:50
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kupachek posted:Twenty years ago (as in, 2002) StormFront was quite active and was a concern beyond "fringe", even with the lower numbers compared to now when so many people are connected online. SF was a bridge between communities, for every member that was online there were was a fuckload more of them meeting in backyards and parks for barbeques and coordinating. Hell it was common enough known to make it into the plot for American History X (1998). A plot point there was the neo-nazis being loving thrilled that the internet was allowing them to organize and build better than ever before. I know it's Hollywood and all but its worth noting that it was enough of a real thing in 1998 to be a viable plot point that I don't think anyone would have viewed as a stretch of the imagination. Couple that to FBI warnings of white supremacist infiltration of police departments 14 years ago...
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Oct 31, 2022 18:54
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BadOptics posted:That and 2002 was only 7 years after OKC and really the whole militia movement (who are basically one and the same see: The Turner Diaries which McVeigh was a fan of) didn't fall off the radar until post 9/11 though most people at the time pointed out that was also because the Bush admin stopped tracking them.... 9/11 itself was the start of yet another racism surge, I just didn't really want to include that initially because of how many folks here were in and in the thick of it and 'tolerated' (for lack of a better word at the moment) the climate. poo poo was more commonplace than people want to admit. (same with homophobia and transphobia. was so ingrained it took years for people to realize it) That Works posted:Hell it was common enough known to make it into the plot for American History X (1998). A plot point there was the neo-nazis being loving thrilled that the internet was allowing them to organize and build better than ever before. Anti-muslim/Anti-Arab sentiment in hollywood films was ratcheting up in 1998 as well. Remember "The Siege" with Bruce Willis? The poo poo didn't just bloom overnight, it was nurtured and tolerated for a long time before it came to a rolling boil.
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Oct 31, 2022 19:05
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Now, wait. Stop. Noone can seriously be arguing that the extremist racist movements were as popular or profitable 30/20/10 years ago as they are today. You're not that stupid. It also makes sense to have worries about other selfish narrowminded autocratic delusional gatherings like the tankies. These things operate by the same principles that cultleaders famously abuse, because reality is about the same amount of useful to their messianic style
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Oct 31, 2022 19:15
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ThisIsJohnWayne posted:Now, wait. Stop. Noone can seriously be arguing that the extremist racist movements were as popular or profitable 30/20/10 years ago as they are today. You're not that stupid. Yeah I think the point is then it was fringe but dangerous vs now the president is taking selfies with them in the white house.
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Oct 31, 2022 19:21
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ThisIsJohnWayne posted:Now, wait. Stop. Noone can seriously be arguing that the extremist racist movements were as popular or profitable 30/20/10 years ago as they are today. You're not that stupid. What does profitable have to do with it? Over the years I've met far more people with swastika tattoos than I have met people who espouse various marxist/leninist/maoist theories. The movements wax and wane in popularity, but they've been more than "fringe" for a long time, and the larger they get, the more attention, the more emboldened they become. Take a look at the 2011-2014 period, you had morons switching from being involved with the 'occupy' movement to what became the alt-right. Assholes seeking validation.
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Oct 31, 2022 19:29
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Horse shoe theory is real.
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Oct 31, 2022 19:29
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ThisIsJohnWayne posted:Now, wait. Stop. Noone can seriously be arguing that the extremist racist movements were as popular or profitable 30/20/10 years ago as they are today. You're not that stupid. When Russia's invasion started, communists/tankies could barely break 20 people "protesting" the war compared to how many various right wing groups showed up during Jan 6. I guess one could worry about them, but I guarantee they're more likely to be busy infighting with the other 5 flavors of fringe leftist groups with 15 people each before you see them gain the power Qanon and other groups have had on the GOP since the late 90's (to be charitable though it goes back more to the Southern Strategy.and actively courting the demographic/ideology). And extremist racist movements lacked the amount of popularity/profitability (though with the long history of Fox and AM radio the latter is arguably at best) simply due to the entry bar to public discourse being much higher versus post-internet adoption with your reddits, 4chans, etc.
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Oct 31, 2022 19:31
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The conservative media complex will wall this off from their people, but it's kind of hard to go with the gay prostitute angle when the attacker... can still talk and willingly did so to the cops after braining Pelosi's husband. https://twitter.com/fordm/status/1587156445903978497?t=xQruxzq_hZl9mxKEWTaWwQ&s=19 https://twitter.com/frankthorp/status/1587161075199246336?t=s1Bd-6G2wV0Sn8Yai2P7Aw&s=19 also lol https://twitter.com/spiritnght2/status/1586937140751081474?t=UYrKfoeOfU_x0cp5yBfceQ&s=19 facialimpediment fucked around with this message at 20:25 on Oct 31, 2022 |
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Oct 31, 2022 20:23
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facialimpediment posted:The conservative media complex will wall this off from their people, but it's kind of hard to go with the gay prostitute angle when the attacker... can still talk and willingly did so to the cops after braining Pelosi's husband. I don't think the RW media will have to when their audience has been trained to do it themselves in a way that makes WH40K look quaint.
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Oct 31, 2022 20:26
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facialimpediment posted:
ha ha remember the two or three weeks when 1/6 was an antifa false flag
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Oct 31, 2022 20:41
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https://twitter.com/BenjaminFogel/status/1587054017531756552
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Oct 31, 2022 20:42
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https://twitter.com/CathoIicConvert/status/1587077730612436992?t=Mpvyp_38jMgB-FgP93gvXw&s=19 Apparently Bolsonaro is going to give up because his party had a really, really good election otherwise. They don't want to deal with him couping when the party has all the power they want already, minus Bolsonaro. Sort of like bizarroworld when Republicans decided "no Donnie, gently caress you and your loser losing rear end, you lost to the loving corpse of Joe Biden, you suck" https://twitter.com/BenjySarlin/status/1587170413863485441 facialimpediment fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Oct 31, 2022 |
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Oct 31, 2022 20:49
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kupachek posted:people with swastika tattoos ... people who espouse various marxist/leninist/maoist theories. There are two genders
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Oct 31, 2022 21:05
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Soul Dentist posted:There are two genders Shine a light, poo poo is prevalent even if you don't "see" it day to day. One good thing to come out of the trump years (and, the q-anon bullshit) was a lot of assholes willingly stepped out into the light and we got to see them for what they really are.
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Oct 31, 2022 21:12
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That wasn't in really good faith at all so I'll add that in my experience I've met many more people who espouse radical leftist politics than have swastika tattoos. Different crowds I guess.
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Oct 31, 2022 21:22
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This thread was like yesterday morning, before 6am this morning GayPelosi etc was trending and had been hashtagged like 40,000 times etc. https://twitter.com/MattGertz/status/1586740957000728577?s=20&t=-NZDGXrdgz3ScKGdDfB8Wg https://twitter.com/MattGertz/status/1586741093839900672?s=20&t=-NZDGXrdgz3ScKGdDfB8Wg https://twitter.com/MattGertz/status/1586741875549114370?s=20&t=-NZDGXrdgz3ScKGdDfB8Wg Basically outlining how the guy now running twitter can push misinformation that basically passes no scruitiny and now will be the dominant counter narrative to an attempted assassination of the Speaker of the House. e: they wrote a longer article discussing all of this. https://www.mediamatters.org/fake-news/right-wing-ecosystem-created-paul-pelosi-conspiracy-theory
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Oct 31, 2022 21:30
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Just thinking about servicemembers alone the scale is tipped pretty firmly to the right. Socioeconomic status will play into it too. A few of the companies I've worked with in the past were chock full of people who had the luxury of political indifference, and then the loud right leaning complainers who bitched. Very few left leaning or progressive types who were willing to open their mouths. These people are not small in number, and they are there if you take a look and shine a light under the rocks.
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Oct 31, 2022 21:37
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kupachek posted:Twenty years ago (as in, 2002) StormFront was quite active and was a concern beyond "fringe", even with the lower numbers compared to now when so many people are connected online. SF was a bridge between communities, for every member that was online there were was a fuckload more of them meeting in backyards and parks for barbeques and coordinating. And the DSA just had to walk back a statement about negotiating with Russia over spheres of influence, and Tulsi Gabbard was considered progressive when she started shilling for Assad. If we’re going to say tankies are fringe now, what makes them different (without the benefit of hindsight) from stormfront 10 years ago? Fewer barbecues?
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Oct 31, 2022 21:40
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hypnophant posted:Tulsi Gabbard was considered progressive Doubt.
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Oct 31, 2022 21:46
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That Works posted:Doubt. You may not have thought so, but she endorsed Bernie in 2016, which was considered a yardstick of progressivism at the time
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Oct 31, 2022 21:49
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Tulsi Gabbard's popularity with democrats always had some "I can fix her" vibe when in reality she's been a shill and mouthpiece of incredibly hot takes and she knows that's why her bread keeps getting buttered so there is no "fixing" her. She's going to be a talking head troll for the rest of our days. I'm surprised she doesn't have a show on Fox where she plays the "liberal" kowtowing to conservative ideals and propaganda.
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Oct 31, 2022 21:51
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I saw "True The Vote" and "contempt" the other day and didn't think anything of it - but apparently they were ordered jailed for it and left the courtroom via marshals  https://twitter.com/GlennKesslerWP/status/1587179700786532354
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Oct 31, 2022 21:53
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hypnophant posted:And the DSA just had to walk back a statement about negotiating with Russia over spheres of influence, and Tulsi Gabbard was considered progressive when she started shilling for Assad. If we’re going to say tankies are fringe now, what makes them different (without the benefit of hindsight) from stormfront 10 years ago? Fewer barbecues? If your definition of tankies is the DSA (it was actually the Congressional Progressive Caucus but whatever) then your political compass is wildly off. That's not even getting into the fact that the "DSA" is at best a loose coalition of left leaning groups that range from actual communists to Bernie democrats. And even giving you the benefit of the doubt that the DSA is fully supportive of Khrushchev's decision on moving tanks into Hungary, their ability to enact their political objectives or even conduct the level of violence that groups such as the 3%/Proud Boys has been negligible. Compared to the political, financial, and cultural/societal inertia that the far right has I don't see how one would think they they are in place where the right wing was 10 years ago. CRUSTY MINGE posted:Tulsi Gabbard's popularity with democrats always had some "I can fix her" vibe when in reality she's been a shill and mouthpiece of incredibly hot takes and she knows that's why her bread keeps getting buttered so there is no "fixing" her. Hannity doesn't need a Colmes anymore. BadOptics fucked around with this message at 22:22 on Oct 31, 2022 |
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Oct 31, 2022 22:14
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https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/31/politics/paul-pelosi-suspect-charged/index.html Paul Pelosi suspect charged with attempting to kidnap House speaker Guy confessed to breaking in to kidnap Nancy Pelosi. Had tape, zip ties, rope, and at least one hammer with him. Can we put this stupid poo poo to bed now?
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Oct 31, 2022 22:20
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hypnophant posted:You may not have thought so, but she endorsed Bernie in 2016, which was considered a yardstick of progressivism at the time You may have thought that endorsing Bernie waves a magic wand bestowing the title of "progressive" but Tulsi was in no way one despite that. https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/13/politics/kfile-tulsi-gabbard-lgbt/index.html quote:During her run for state legislature in 2002, Gabbard told the Honolulu Star-Bulletin, “Working with my father, Mike Gabbard, and others to pass a constitutional amendment to protect traditional marriage, I learned that real leaders are willing to make personal sacrifices for the common good. I will bring that attitude of public service to the legislature.” The quote, which CNN’s KFile found during a review of Gabbard’s early career, shows how closely she aligned herself with her father’s mission at the time. quote:Listed among Gabbard’s past work in the profile by the Honolulu newspaper was her work at The Alliance for Traditional Marriage. quote:“This war of deception and hatred against my mom is being waged by homosexual activists because they know, that if elected, she will not allow them to force their values down the throats of the children in our schools,” Gabbard is quoted as saying. Now, the once anti-gay always flirting with the right-wing "progressive" Tulsi has left the party for more familiar waters.
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Oct 31, 2022 22:38
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Time Crisis Actor posted:https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/31/politics/paul-pelosi-suspect-charged/index.html Zip ties huh? Sounds like a kinky time to me... Edit: Tulsi Gabbard has always sucked, though I think a lot of people projected their aspirations onto her because she's a cutie.
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Oct 31, 2022 22:41
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hypnophant posted:And the DSA just had to walk back a statement about negotiating with Russia over spheres of influence, and Tulsi Gabbard was considered progressive when she started shilling for Assad. If we’re going to say tankies are fringe now, what makes them different (without the benefit of hindsight) from stormfront 10 years ago? Fewer barbecues? If by barbecues, you mean cross burnings, then yes. White supremacy has been part of American politics since before the states were united and has been violent most of that time. White supremacists enjoy a broad base of support at every level of power. Stormfront was merely an early online venture of a large, established movement. Communism on the other hand has never been much more than a scare word in America. I can't think of a more toothless group of folks than tankies. A tiny subset of contrarians from the left, which is already pretty powerless. If you think the DSA of all things is "stormfront 10 years ago" I don't know what to tell you.
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Oct 31, 2022 22:41
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Kamel posted:If by barbecues, you mean cross burnings, then yes. 
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Oct 31, 2022 22:42
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hypnophant posted:And the DSA just had to walk back a statement about negotiating with Russia over spheres of influence, and Tulsi Gabbard was considered progressive when she started shilling for Assad. If we’re going to say tankies are fringe now, what makes them different (without the benefit of hindsight) from stormfront 10 years ago? Fewer barbecues? Man, you're quoting the wrong person, my post was specifically about right wing nutbars, because those are the types who are both numerous, and actively want to harm people. Maybe I'll start giving more of a poo poo about the unhinged far left idiots when they figure out how to identify the people they want to kill, but tossing "the rich" into a woodchipper or a guillotine is pretty vague compared to the right wing idiots who want to harm anyone not straight and white. Both are poo poo, but one is vastly more dangerous than the other.
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Oct 31, 2022 22:48
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That Works posted:You may have thought that endorsing Bernie waves a magic wand bestowing the title of "progressive" but Tulsi was in no way one despite that. Hey I would love it if progressives and society at large rejected applying the label “progressive” to anyone who is demonstrably, openly homophobic but it just ain’t the case kupachek posted:Man, you're quoting the wrong person, my post was specifically about right wing nutbars, because those are the types who are both numerous, and actively want to harm people. Again, I think that’s only true with hindsight and it’s very difficult for me to know, from the perspective of 2012, how to tell, for instance, that OWS would peter out but the neonazis would explode in popularity. If you have an absolute way to tell which social movements will grow and which will shrink, which isn’t reliant on hindsight, please share. I don’t so I tend to just assess these groups based on their stated aims and goals regardless of how fringe they are; even in Russia the communist party was fringe at some point. quote:Both are poo poo, but one is vastly more dangerous than the other. I’m in no way claiming otherwise, I just don’t think it’s wise to ignore tankies entirely just because they’re toothless now. A lot of people on the right ten years ago thought white supremacists were toothless and ignored them until they demonstrated they weren’t. Like Mitt Romney, maybe. I dunno.
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Oct 31, 2022 23:06
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Time Crisis Actor posted:https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/31/politics/paul-pelosi-suspect-charged/index.html You can't make me read it and if I don't the existing narrative remains checkmate That Works posted:You may have thought that endorsing Bernie waves a magic wand bestowing the title of "progressive" but Tulsi was in no way one despite that. Their point is valid, Tulsa was considered a progressive by many despite being anything but. It doesn't take much to be led when you already want to go.
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Oct 31, 2022 23:09
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I’ve literally never heard anyone call Tulsi a progressive until today in this thread.
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Oct 31, 2022 23:19
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That Works posted:I’ve literally never heard anyone call Tulsi a progressive until today in this thread. https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/mar/18/tulsi-gabbard-2020-progressive-steve-bannon-right the very first google result for “tulsi gabbard progressive” https://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/the-administration/307419-trumps-outreach-to-progressive-dem-tulsi-gabbard-paves/amp/ another from 2016 https://zora.medium.com/tulsi-gabbard-isnt-as-progressive-as-she-claims-to-be-9fe32d447b63 here’s one from 2019, where a pushback against the position you claim no one ever held starts to emerge hypnophant fucked around with this message at 23:32 on Oct 31, 2022 |
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Oct 31, 2022 23:27
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hypnophant posted:Again, I think that’s only true with hindsight and it’s very difficult for me to know, from the perspective of 2012, how to tell, for instance, that OWS would peter out but the neonazis would explode in popularity. If you have an absolute way to tell which social movements will grow and which will shrink, which isn’t reliant on hindsight, please share. I don’t so I tend to just assess these groups based on their stated aims and goals regardless of how fringe they are; even in Russia the communist party was fringe at some point. It's not hindsight when you're aware of them and the dangers they pose in the moment. I was aware of them and the danger they posed in the 90's through until now. I remember in August of 2002 a guy (of British and Polish descent) I used to have beers with down at the river attended one of those backyard bbq's and spent a while telling me about the skinheads he met and how they just accepted him and how friendly they were. Same way most gangs recruit, they offer acceptance, validation and purpose. Guy was from a good family, solid middle class, his father was a history professor, and he was the middle son of three. For whatever reason he was seeking something for a while and gravitated towards the white nationalists. He put in some time in uniform, and then hosed off to europe by working his passage on a ship and basically spent a year or so backpacking before coming back and settling into a quiet life. I've been aware of them because I'm mixed. I can largely pass as white, but once people start looking closer they start asking questions. For you it may be hindsight that you're realizing now how prevalent they were, but some of us have long memories. They didn't start with the Daily Stormer, that was just another stage in which they pulled in fresh blood. I don't particularly care why you were unaware of it through the last three decades, it doesn't matter at all, but it wraps around to what I initially said, that it feels like you're looking back with a rosetinted nostalgic view, and it's false. While the rightwing movements may be better at holding the subgroups together against a common designated enemy the good thing is historically when they swell enough, they start infighting and kill one another off. The leftwing groups on the other hand can't unite worth a poo poo and spend most of their time with bickering infighting and purity testing one another. Do you like reading though? There was a pair of married authors, James and Brenda Lutz who wrote about terrorism. The husband passed away but the wife is still active. One of their titles was "Terrorism in America", published by Palgrave in 2007. It'll function as a nice little primer about the white supremacist issue for you. It even has the breakdown of the 'hates' for various iterations of some of the organizations depending on the year.
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Oct 31, 2022 23:52
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kupachek posted:
Yeeeeeeuuuuuuup
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