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Arsenic Lupin
Apr 12, 2012

This particularly rapid💨 unintelligible 😖patter💁 isn't generally heard🧏‍♂️, and if it is🤔, it doesn't matter💁.


BonHair posted:


2: if gender dysphoria (as in, in those cases where it is) is about the actual physical body and parts, why do we need the sex/gender distinction? I realize that's probably a big can of worms though.
What I was taught in psychology, decades ago, was that "sex" is whatever bits/chromosomes you have, and "gender" is (loosely) the role you play/are allowed to play in society. The distinction between the biological and societal is an important one to make, and there are over 100 years of research, at this point, proving that they're often not the same. The same stuff idiots are calling "woke" is settled science.

So, if you've got androgen insensitivity syndrome, your biological sex is "male". Your gender? Whatever you find comfortable; historically, because people with AIS have apparently female external organs, their gender was assigned as female and generally stayed that way.

There are a lot of social roles assigned to gender that aren't rigidly bound to sex. For instance, Albanian women could become "sworn virgins" (burrnesha), meaning that they disavowed all romantic contact including marriage. Thereafter, they dressed as men, took on the social roles available to men including being head of the household, and were treated as male in society. They could smoke and drink in bars. Some women became burrnesha to avoid unwanted marriages, or because blood feuds had led to a male-less household. Others did it because they didn't feel like women. A burrnesha's sex? Female. His gender? Male.

Trans people, in one way or another, have showed up in many societies over time, including settler American society.

Cool article on burrnesha in Albania. There are few remaining burrnesha, and they're all old.

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Arsenic Lupin
Apr 12, 2012

This particularly rapid💨 unintelligible 😖patter💁 isn't generally heard🧏‍♂️, and if it is🤔, it doesn't matter💁.


Grassy Knowles posted:

Generally see it broken down to seven categories of sex that are capable of being independent of one another

Chromosomal sex
Anatomical sex
Genital sex
Legal sex
Hormonal sex
Psychosocial sex

Fascinating! Glad to hear things have progressed.

Antivehicular posted:

The whole thing is immensely complicated, and the transphobic purity tests about "real, biological" men and women don't hold true for a lot of cis binary people.
Yeah, every time I ask a bigot about AIS and people with XXY chromosomes, the answer is "shut up, those aren't normal." Normal is, of course, in the eye of the beholder.

Arsenic Lupin fucked around with this message at 00:37 on Sep 12, 2023

Arsenic Lupin
Apr 12, 2012

This particularly rapid💨 unintelligible 😖patter💁 isn't generally heard🧏‍♂️, and if it is🤔, it doesn't matter💁.


Ohtori Akio posted:

Conceptualizing gender as an ontological state is not helpful for me. When I am referred to as a man it causes a deep-seated harmful pain called gender dysphoria. Meanwhile when I am referred to as a woman it feels normal. Same with the other aspects of taking up that gender role and presentation. Crossdressing men typically have something else going on, like performance art or making a point or having fun.
The trans men I know experience gender dysphoria just like you do.

Arsenic Lupin
Apr 12, 2012

This particularly rapid💨 unintelligible 😖patter💁 isn't generally heard🧏‍♂️, and if it is🤔, it doesn't matter💁.


Grassy Knowles posted:

Generally see it broken down to seven categories of sex that are capable of being independent of one another

Chromosomal sex
Anatomical sex
Genital sex
Legal sex
Hormonal sex
Psychosocial sex
What distinguishes hormonal sex from the others? Not challenging you, asking for education.

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