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Zenyatta's healing is bad if you're trying to top off the tank in the middle of a fight. His healing is quite good if you're prioritizing your damage teammates and freeing up your other support to focus on the tank, however. It gets incredible value on a Genji or Tracer and is quite nice for allowing back line characters to shrug off chip damage to keep pressure on. When your other support is getting dived, putting an orb on them can buy a lot of time if they're not being two-shot combo'd. He's bad at solo healing but he should never be solo healing, just don't run him in comps with pocket Mercy or Lucio as the other support (or stop playing open queue). Unrelated, but as someone solo queuing quick play what are you supposed to do to counter a cracked out Genji that's deleting your team when you're assigned the damage role? Turrets are too easily countered and most characters can be deflected or require extremely good mechanics to land hits on a Genji of that caliber. Mei is pretty much the only thing I can think of, but are there any non-obvious options?
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Feb 4, 2023 20:54
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Countblanc posted:if you aren't very good and the opposing genji is very good (relative to your respective MMRs) then you're probably going to die a lot to him. DPS characters are overwhelmingly aim reliant, characters who get value from abilities (rather than aiming) are generally support or tanks, so if you aren't good at aiming then you're going to have a lot of trouble playing DPS against any strong agile character - you'd probably be getting smoked by a similarly skilled Tracer or find it impossible to kill a good Mercy. this is especially true if you're already ruling out the characters who have favorable matchups because you don't consider them favorable enough. I actually have less trouble against Tracer because she stays on ground level, trying to track Genji is an order of magnitude harder when he's double jumping over your head. The penalty for misreading a blink or recall is also a lot lower than misreading a deflect and eating a bunch of your own damage so he can dash into you. To be fair, I've run into a lot fewer good Tracers than Genjis. Can't hit a good Mercy but neither can most GM players.  Torb turret does damage but when I say it's too easily countered I mean that Genji can deal with it by himself using deflect and Torb can't punish him while he's doing that. Meanwhile Symmetra turrets die in one hit so they don't last long enough to be a threat to him once he's aware. I'm not necessarily expecting to hard counter him to the point where he has to switch off, but I do want options that can make space and prevent him from consistently winning 1v2 in the back line. I'm typically queuing all roles so I don't get a lot of practice with damage characters and when I do play damage it's usually a backfill into a stacked game and I need to take every advantage I can get.
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Feb 4, 2023 22:18
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Issaries posted:You usually should have Turret in an off-angle, so he can either deflect your shots or Turret shots, not both. This is map-dependent of course, but wouldn't most flank routes mean Genji himself is coming in at an off-angle and I can't get behind him, especially if he has high ground? CP maps especially have a lot of routes around the point so there's rarely a spot that can cover my supports without being vulnerable. I'll experiment with it more though. Jack Trades posted:The easy counter is Mei. With her you can just hold LMB. I usually try not to play next to my turret as Torb, but when trying to push out from spawn after a team kill I don't always have the luxury of picking perfect locations either. Push maps are especially bad for it because I don't always know where the next fight is going to be. It's a hard life in Quick Play. My experience with Symmetra against a good Genji is that she struggles to make space reactively since her turrets take so long to set up but also get destroyed so easily and with such a long cooldown, which is a problem when you're coming back from a lost fight against a flanker that can dictate when you have to fight him. Maybe if I knew better spots to set up but good Genjis don't give me time to experiment.
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Feb 5, 2023 00:12
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Rick posted:This also might be a console thing but to me sym turrets exist to make an opponent have to turn around and aim at an awkward angle so my team shoots them in the back. I otherwise just use them as a means of doing chip damage to flankers. The carwash and kill thing is cool and good fun but I get a lot less utility out of it overall. I'm on PC and it works out about the same for Symmetra turrets because enemies can snap shot them in a second. Putting them near health packs to catch already weakened enemies or on flank routes to notify when they're being used ends up getting more mileage as a result. I've tried the turrets against Genji because on paper the non-deflectable damage and slow is perfect but in practice it doesn't work. comedyblissoption posted:Try to position yourself so genji isn't able to take isolated 1v1 duels against you or your teammates which tend to favor genji a lot and let him easily get away. No poo poo. I'm asking for advice dealing with Genjis that win 1v2 or 1v3 duels and assuming that I'm going to have to be the one to counter-pick because what are the supports going to do, go Brigitte? Maybe they should but it never happens.
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Feb 5, 2023 04:22
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Most of Bastion's DPS is in his turret form, so you play against him the same way you play against anyone reliant on a long cooldown: stick to corners, bait it out, focus him when he's on cooldown. Most of the roster can play around him as long as you maintain awareness because he has limited mobility. Good counter picks have range to poke him from safety, an escape when baiting the transform, or mobility to dive him as soon as it ends. Shooting him in turret form can be risky because he gets passive damage mitigation, but a Discord orb can make him melt like anything else. If your teammates aren't respecting the Bastion and getting deleted for standing out in the open, there's not a whole lot you can do about that because they're being idiots. You'll probably want to pick flankers with escape tools to bait the transform away from your team as much as possible in that situation. Gravitas Shortfall posted:tbh I really think it's tank and support's job to neutralise Bastion, and the DPS to capitalise on it. Bastion is designed as a tank buster, tanks don't want to be standing in front of him any more than the damages. Yes, tanks can burn cooldowns to survive but it's better to just not have to when they have Bastion's teammates to deal with at the same time. The counter play is to use cover because he has no way of following up on you when you do that.
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Feb 20, 2023 13:48
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:Rocks are good too. Rock is pretty bad when Bastion is in turret form because that's a full second of eating his bullets, and not in the succ way. I am confused by what you mean when you say the tank and supports should 'neutralise Bastion', then - if you're not expecting the tank to try and dive him during turret form, what are you doing different from normal play? You're soaking aggro whether it's a Bastion or a Sojourn. That does bring up the topic of dive tanks like Ball and Doom against Bastion though, which is a complicated scenario that doesn't seem to have any right answers. Seems like it comes down to how good the tank is, because either they get picks or the Bastion gets to roll forward for free.
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Feb 20, 2023 14:18
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Unlucky7 posted:I haven't played since Overwatch 1 and I am finally thinking about giving OW2 a try. I like to play Tank (Mostly Reinhardt) mainly though I would go into support occasionally. Any Tank or Support tips so I do not drag my team down? Number one tip is: don't die.  In my opinion, the best way to improve early on is to put in some hours as Zenyatta. He's a squishy, high value target with no escape abilities, so survival is based on your positioning. If you die, you were out of position. You're out of position because you misread the game state. Think about why you misread it and eventually you'll be falling back automatically without conscious effort when a counter-push is imminent. Use those skills to recognize when to push or pull as tank or damage and avoid overextending. Go into the settings and turn on the audio cues for enemy/ally deaths. Rebind the ping button so you can spam it. First sighting at the start of the round? Ping. Widowmaker on a balcony? Ping. It's high noon? Ping. Flanker on your rear end? Ping. Got domed? You have a couple seconds to ping whoever killed you too.
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Apr 10, 2023 10:54
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"What if we made a map absurdly huge with no cover?"
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Apr 25, 2023 23:16
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buglord posted:I know this isn’t related to the post you’re making but I’m shocked that TF2 is still in the top 10 at #7. And then football manager being at #10 is a surprise. Guess I forgot how much the rest of the world really, really likes soccer. CSGO and TF2 have drop systems that are tied to being online rather than any sort of actual gameplay so you get entire servers of "players" idling for crates. Some farmers are running dozens of alts, and idle servers can make money off MOTD ads with fresh views every ten minutes on the map change. Makes it hard to tell how popular they actually are but it looks good on the stats board.
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May 22, 2023 21:57
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Vermain posted:because they chose to implement randomized crits as their primary swing mechanic in combat instead, presumably to mitigate issues with aimbots and highly skilled players gaining a significant advantage I dunno, the random crits felt like they were added mostly so the weapons that can't headshot have a burst damage mechanic. The chance of a crit increases when you've been putting out damage so skilled players have an advantage, but it still feels like the fates decided to gently caress you over because the Soldier fresh out of spawn put a lucky crocket in you on the first shot. TF2 was still a way more chill game though, 12v12 means having one player loving around doesn't cripple the team like in 5v5 so it was way more comfortable to try out a different class or loadout. OW matchmaking means I can never really learn a new character without feeling like I'm ruining games by throwing because I'm no longer playing at the level my MMR expects on such small teams, and the game being balanced around the assumption of counter picking means sometimes I'm not allowed to practice because I'm being hard countered on top of being bad with the character.
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May 24, 2023 03:22
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leftist heap posted:There are people in this thread who think effectively the otherwise, that the game should be less dictated by shooting and hitting people! Most people don't want their game decided by a single cracked out sniper, it's true. On the flip side, most people also don't want the game decided by a Mercy nobody can touch. The internal balance discussions at Blizzard must be fascinating because they know about all these problems but don't want to change the core identity of their more iconic characters. I'd love to know how much argument went into the Widow nerf.
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Jun 13, 2023 05:38
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dogstile posted:Don't forget that now you can avoid players again, but they somehow made it even worse to do by making you have to navigate more menus to do it. You can report or avoid someone through the Endorsement menu now by right-clicking their name card. Unless they're a troll that leaves ten seconds before the game ends and an unwitting backfill gets to show up for the defeat screen in their stead.
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Jun 13, 2023 16:35
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SirFozzie posted:Just had the craziest game. 3:30 to play, we've been steamrolled pretty well the whole map, and it's 5 on 2 at the moment. Luckily, one of the two is me, who is Moira. Despite my teammates getting killed one by one as they return to the point, I managed to run around, across and over the cart while spamming my fade and orbs trying desperately to stay alive for roughly THIRTY seconds till the team can reseize spawn advantage. We end up winning but man, I was like "How the hell did I survive all that???" Looks like pretty normal low rank gameplay, lot of people missing shots and some clear instances of people not knowing what their kit does. Sombra probably could have shut you down if she wasn't ignoring you, but she didn't and you took advantage of that. You should think about your positioning more - you're often standing in front like you're trying to be a tank, which can work at low ranks where nobody can aim but you'll get deleted if you want to climb. Stay just behind your teammates so you can piss on multiple people at once, or get behind the enemy for a proper flank and split their focus. In the middle is the worst of all choices because you can't see how your teammates are doing or heal them without turning around and the opposing team can all focus you at the same time. You also tend to stare at the floor a lot but I don't know if that's a controls issue or what.
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Jun 16, 2023 21:09
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Designing the game around counter picking was a bad idea. Too many players would rather lose than switch.
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Jun 17, 2023 17:59
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Pvt. Parts posted:Please don't kick me out of the thread but something I actually really liked from Paladins vs. OW was that your are forced to stick on one hero all game (after a pick/ban phase, IIRC). There is something so much more satisfying about "use the tools available to you; what you got is what you get" vs. the musical chairs of picking and counter picking in OW. Paladins has a bunch of neat design choices (like the card and item system to adapt to what you're facing, and baking in anti-heal so supports can't simply heal-bot every fight) but it's a shame the engine is such trash. Overwatch has a bunch of issues but at least it doesn't crash all the time.
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Jun 17, 2023 21:52
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I've seen some people say that the Australian server issues coincide with the Diablo 4 launch, so it's quite possible that Blizzard is prioritizing their D4 users over the OW ones for resource allocation. Or maybe the nature of how the games are played simply leads to saturation (OW releases the server every 15-30 minutes, D4 games could run for hours with drop-in players replacing original ones).
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Jul 4, 2023 18:00
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Things aren't dying because the enemy Ana has zero pressure and your tank can't push or dive without being slept and naded, so he has to play defensively while the DPS is hanging back poking ineffectually. For all the poo poo Zenyatta gets for Discord I feel like Ana is way more suffocating to play against.
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Jul 21, 2023 10:23
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:As a Ana player this is absolutely true, but also a proper dive comp will just ruin my loving day. Oh here comes Munky and Tracer, looks like I'm loving dead/swapping out. Monkey by himself struggles, but if he's going in with teammates then yeah sure. Of course with that level of coordination things are probably dying regardless of your healing focus.
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Jul 21, 2023 12:42
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Opioid posted:Why not… kill the healer? Kind of hard to do when they're either bouncing around constantly (and start regenerating if you miss shots/reload) or they're halfway across the map and outside your effective range. Usually the first person to peel for a support is the other support, so unless you can clean them up with quick headshots they aren't dying. Half the roster is projectile heroes and trying to kill a Mercy that's boosting all over the place might as well be impossible with those. If Overwatch was a well designed game it wouldn't make hitscan necessary to kill specific characters.
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Jul 22, 2023 08:19
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Opioid posted:My most played character is Mercy with 200 something hours which I’m sure is nothing compared to others. Here is a list of things to try that skilled players do to easily kill me. Generally speaking, if a Mercy is dying it's because the Mercy hosed up. "Can you keep the cursor on me" is exactly the problem everyone has, her CD is insanely low and can be hard to predict when she doesn't even have to look in the direction she's boosting. She doesn't need to be looking in the direction she's healing either, so nobody should be getting behind her for a flank without her calling it out. "Just use teamwork" completely downplays the level of coordination necessary to make it happen. You have a window of two to three seconds to kill her before she's back behind cover or a teammate, her own passive regeneration kicking in, the other support probably topping her off. If you fail, your team has to back out because you've been getting shot while trying to kill Mercy and have nothing to show for it. Shooting the other players is technically suboptimal but the likelihood of actually killing someone is so much higher despite that, and worst case you're building ult charge to make a play happen.
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Jul 22, 2023 18:09
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Herstory Begins Now posted:of literally all the things that don't belong in this game, widow/hanzo one shots are the single biggest thing that just gently caress up the flow of the game and undermine their vision for how the game is meant to be played. like I don't think the low-ttk, teamwork-heavy character shooter is a bad concept whatsoever, but having two characters that just ignore the design of the entire rest of the game and for whom the primary counterplay is to just play them better is so bad for the game. widow especially. I say this as someone who played a ton of widow because that was the hitscan dps meta when I played on a team. Not just that, but the ult charge mechanic directly disincentivizes switching to counter. If a Sniper in TF2 is popping off there's nothing stopping switching things up myself but OW forces me to weigh the relative cost of losing my 80% ult and the potential cascading consequences of losing that ult momentum, and that's a tough decision to be making in the ten seconds I have before I need to be out the door to join up with the team again.
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Jul 31, 2023 12:32
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One time I got a 5k as Rein by pinning the enemy Ana from a flank route*, getting Nano from my Ana, cleaning up the rest of the back line, and then my Wifeleaver pulled me back to finish off the Orisa with a swing and a fire strike, whereupon he celebrated with voice lines and crouching a lot. That's my 'Wifeleaver is helping!' story. *It was Nepal second point on defense at the tunnel exit and the flank route was me coming back through the tunnels because I was wildly out of position securing a kill on Widow who jumped back to first point. They just kinda forgot about me until I charged back up the tunnel to pin Ana I guess?
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Oct 11, 2023 15:54
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Sloppy posted:And again, this is an instant quit as soon as I see the loading screen, not like mid-match. Plenty of time for someone else to fill in. I can count on one hand the number of times I've quit during the game, usually when the rest of my team is emoting in spawn or something similar. Matchmaking already sucks in normal circumstances, how's it supposed to get any better when the system has to desperately backfill as fast as possible, probably at the expense of someone who clearly doesn't belong in that game?
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Oct 27, 2023 17:21
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Is Blizzard taking any steps to prevent passive self-heal for all classes from becoming another win-more snowball mechanic, or is pushing the enemy off a point after losing a fight going to be even harder than it already is? Seems especially bad in modes with a lot of down time like Push.
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Jan 13, 2024 00:31
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Inept posted:Voteskip might work, but letting people pick maps means that the 2-4 most popular maps will win constantly and that also sucks Maybe they should update maps to be more fun instead of merely moving the time of day slider.
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Feb 20, 2024 05:02
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People want to play what they like, which is usually a couple different characters for a given role. Most players don't have perfect coverage with their preferred heroes and forcing them to switch means they're not having fun. I think most people would also agree that you're better off playing what you know than playing the counter poorly as well. Losing ult charge when switching is just icing on the cake since it's punishing you for playing the way they want. Overall I think the expectation that the player switches over the course of a match is unrealistic, and is actually used as a crutch to ignore hero specific balance issues. Heroes should be viable in every matchup - perfect balance is obviously impossible, but there should never be a situation where you feel useless. Paladins has locked character picks but manages quite well thanks to the talent/card system to lean into specific aspects of your character, and item buys for extra reactivity for how the match is progressing. Maybe if Blizzard didn't ignore PvE development for years they would have had enough material to copy some of that along with the HP/antiheal mechanics they're cribbing.
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Mar 8, 2024 13:23
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dogstile posted:This was an argument in the competitive thread for the longest time and I think it took about a year of us posting "yes, you will lose playing what you don't know poorly but you should still do it because otherwise you'll never improve as a player" for people to kinda get it. Slightly different context there, I think: if you're playing to win the match you're currently in, you play what you know because that's your best performance. Your teammates obviously prefer that you're playing at your best. If you're looking to improve as a player to win more matches in the future then you should definitely get the practice in where it's appropriate. Quick Play? Nobody cares, go for it. Ranked where your supports are on strike? Might as well experiment. A miracle of an actually close ranked match? Go ahead and make that judgement call on where you are between zero and hero. I think every character should have a reasonable chance of winning a 1v1 against every other character. Some can have an edge in a matchup over others, but hard counters are bad because once you introduce team compositions into the mix that one counter turns into multiple hard counters and you're just completely hosed. That's why tanking sucks, because too many characters are made to delete you in particular and you're supposed to just put up with that.
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Mar 8, 2024 14:46
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Don't forget a backfill has no ult charge so they're absolutely hosed if they're joining mid match. Sucks having to play defensively because you don't know the opposing team's ult progress and then being unable to counter-ult because you never had time to build it.
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Apr 17, 2024 15:49
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