Overwatch 2: you can just rip off TF2

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Overwatch 2: you can just rip off TF2

toadee: Aug 16, 2003; North American Turtle Boy Love Association

I am a brand new player (like 3 weeks ago I started), and I've put a fair amount of time reading up on and improving my play. I'm sure I'm bad, but I know I'm not the worst. Today in a series of 8 ranked games, one of them our tank just rolled around as ball in the corner of the map the whole time intentionally throwing. Another, literally all four of the other players on my team quit out after starting a payload match 0-2 in the first round (the enemy team were fun about it, we all just sat around and did emotes and stuff while the timer ticked down). Two other matches were one or more people left, and then at least one match where I just got screamed at by a tank who wanted healing but literally just kept doom fist jumping into the back line of the enemy in the middle of 4 people. I just can't help you there man.

Like I still am enjoying the game, oddly enough, but my god. What is this.

# ¿ Dec 10, 2022 02:29

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# ¿ May 10, 2024 08:36

toadee: Aug 16, 2003; North American Turtle Boy Love Association

Honestly at least as a brand new player down in Bronze, matches are just all over the place. Last night I went 7-1, with almost all of my teams having really active coms, grouping up after deaths, getting some good point re-takes etc. It was a breeze. The night before? Multiple games with leavers, one with a Hanzo just sitting in our spawn looking at the sky shooting arrows, and the topper that made me quit for the evening, a game where we were marginally looking to be ahead despite an incredibly toxic player saying stupid poo poo all game, then the enemy team has a guy leave and it's almost certainly a win, and then our toxic guy goes insane, starts telling one of our DPS to unalive himself IRL, etc, and two of ours leave immediately in response and we lose. It goes from clown show nonsense that I can't even begin to call competitive to an actual fun experience back and forth constantly.

I'm not sure at all what the solution would be, but I am reminded of a distinction I saw made a while back in another game I play competitively, where someone mentioned that all of the game modes that didn't involve two pre-organized teams/clans/etc were multiplayer games, but not team games. You can't just toss some random players together and call it a team, it really isn't. I think part of the problem is that central to OW, all of the modes are extremely team oriented, but we are stuck always playing a multiplayer, but not team game around those rules.

# ¿ Dec 20, 2022 17:41

toadee: Aug 16, 2003; North American Turtle Boy Love Association

Well that was great, had my first encounter tonight with a "leave squad". At least according to the enemy team there are roving squads of people who open a new account and then troll bronze matches by getting them in a winnable state and then mass leaving. I knew something was kind of fishy at the opening when we had their team just absolutely pinned to the opening on a payload map, they could barely move it at all. Then suddenly they just let them push until almost the first point. In fact I think they were going to let them but then I sat on cart and yelled at them at coms and killed the last guy that was out there on it. Right when we were finishing that round the first one left. Then in the second round they all went off and flanked and got picks but never got near the cart, so I sat on it and was pushing it until maybe 50 meters till the win point and the other 3 people disconnected at the same time. This game is so much fun when you get a group that will talk and work together but the new player experience is really tilting sometimes.

Oh, I also reported my first person for cheating as well. A Hanzo who had the most accurate seizures Ive ever seen on a kill cam, who also was following and shooting at people who were not spotted through walls (I also checked replay, he did not have sonic arrows active nor did he ever actually fire one). I wonder what its like to cheat and be stuck in Bronze, yikes

toadee fucked around with this message at 04:28 on Dec 22, 2022

# ¿ Dec 22, 2022 04:26

toadee: Aug 16, 2003; North American Turtle Boy Love Association

Live At Five! posted:

I'm a new bad player, but I've really clicked with Mei. I hardly see anyone play her, is it just because dps tier lists online say she's bad? I'd rather play someone I click with than chase some meta poo poo.

In the month or two I've been playing I've noticed a truism about Mei:

Their Mei: puts up walls blocking your retreats, freezes large groups at devastatingly opportune times, always seems to ice wall or ice block herself out of danger.

Your Mei: puts up walls blocking your retreats. Puts up walls blocking you from healing low team mates. Puts up walls blocking ranged DPS from shooting anything. Marshes all of her cooldowns 3 feet in front of 4 enemies yet doesn't freeze a single one. Ends the match with 2300 damage and 47 deaths.

Mei is just never a good sight

toadee fucked around with this message at 05:03 on Dec 22, 2022

# ¿ Dec 22, 2022 05:00

toadee: Aug 16, 2003; North American Turtle Boy Love Association

Very consistently the attitude I have seen among the best players in multiple completely competitive multiplayer games is that after every game they reflect on what they could have done better. They do this both in wins and losses. They focus almost exclusively on the things they did and could have done. This both leads to an overall far more positive attitude, as they are less likely to be frustrated at their teammates, but also leads to far greater and faster development of their own game, hence why it's a trait very common among the best in any game.

Literally just go over every game, wins and losses, and point out what you could have done better, and keep it in your mind constantly. You will improve.

# ¿ Dec 29, 2022 06:57

toadee: Aug 16, 2003; North American Turtle Boy Love Association

Jack Trades posted:

I'm starting to think that playing Moira in lower ranks is a terrible idea.

Yes, she does have the highest healing output but it's not worth keeping most of these idiots alive. It seems like you get better results by denying the other team plays instead with Kiriko or Ana.

Pretty sure DPS Moira is the only highly effective way to play her. It's just not nearly as effective as a decent Kiriko, or Lucio, or Ana, or Mercy in most cases. It's no accident that the very very few Moira OTPs you do see in the top 500 are heavily DPS oriented. Most famously Nolan back in OW1 did a Bronze to GM stream series titled "No Left Click" where the only healing he did was orbs to heal himself. Moira's only outstanding characteristic is her ability to exist for ages in a back line and constantly harass support and DPS back there. Otherwise you're just a dumb heal bot that relies on 4 other people to actually do something. Meanwhile any other support can do that but also do something else at the same time, from more traditional support positions etc. The problem is its very easy to gently caress up the backline DPS Moira gameplay and just be really bad period, and the eventual top level is still worse than Kiriko and Lucio and Mercy so almost nobody bothers to get good enough to actually do it.

ML7 has a pretty recent vid up where he had a pretty much strictly DPS Moira on his team in a top 500 match (and also doing it clearly as a bit of a meme since he called out that he was a TikTok Moira in voice chat at the start of the match), and at first he's skeptical but after the Moira kills 2 supports and then takes out Kraggie (I believe still the #1 ranked DPS on EU), he shifts to just cover the support duties vacated by the DPS Moira and they stomp pretty hard on the enemy. He breaks down the things that the backline DPS Moira does do for your team by analyzing the replay afterward.

Again, it's not the best support at all, and the process of learning to do it well will probably involve hours of just being a terrible detriment to your win rate and teams, but, I think truly if you want to climb and succeed in Moira you have to at least focus more on DPS than healing as often as is possible.

# ¿ Jan 3, 2023 17:59

toadee: Aug 16, 2003; North American Turtle Boy Love Association

comedyblissoption posted:

you could probably stick the best professional widow player in the entire world into a ladder game anonymously with a viable team comp and map and you will have at least one of the teammates still blame the widow if they lose

Ever seen TheRealKenzo on Youtube? He has like an 85% Widow win rate and hits an absolutely world class % of shots, and he routinely has people shouting "WIDOW SWAP NOW UR THORWING"

# ¿ Jan 4, 2023 02:41

toadee: Aug 16, 2003; North American Turtle Boy Love Association

Nothing alleged, ML7 was testing out all kinds of stuff. Mei walls, railings, etc, all work

https://clips.twitch.tv/BrainyStupidOrangeFrankerZ-jS0nwTdtAwYiOVqQ

# ¿ Jan 6, 2023 05:16

toadee: Aug 16, 2003; North American Turtle Boy Love Association

Gravitas Shortfall posted:

lol at the latest OW twitch drop being the worst Moira skin

You seem to have misspelled "best" here. Finally have a reason to link my account!

# ¿ Jan 12, 2023 15:14

toadee: Aug 16, 2003; North American Turtle Boy Love Association

It's interesting, because for the past few years I've played a game with absolutely no matchmaking by skill at all. The attitude there is always "if you want even matchmaking you can make a clan and play the clan battles mode", and random battles and even ranked battles there are just random matchmaking with whoever is in the queue. I play that game at about the the top 1% in terms of stats and win rate, and am so used to playing random games where some of my teammates literally don't even understand the basic mechanics of the game that the nominal skill disparity in an OW2 game seems.... trivial in comparison. Or maybe I just suck too bad at OW2 right now to fully understand how bad it is.

# ¿ Jan 18, 2023 13:50

toadee: Aug 16, 2003; North American Turtle Boy Love Association

SadisTech posted:

And again, that is true and yet completely missing the point of complaint.

Differences between player skill exist. Differences between the skill of players on the same role but on opposing teams in a match exist. The tank role is an extremely powerful role in Overwatch 2 with a disproportionate amount of influence on the course of a match.

None of these statements are contentious. This means that "tank diff" is a phenomenon that influences individual matches greatly in a random way. This can fall in a given team's favour, or against them. Over the long term it will indeed average out. This does not make it acceptable because those matches are often so imbalanced that they are essentially pre-determined. The winning team will of course have a better experience than the losing team, but this does not make the match a good one for anyone involved.

This phenomenon occurs far too frequently in the game. It is of less concern that it occurs in Unranked - although one can only imagine that it's extremely bad for the long-term health of the game as it will actively be driving players away who are on the losing side of the equation too often - but it is of tremendous concern that it happens so frequently in Ranked. It literally introduces much greater than normal random variance into the outcome of matches and therefore player ranking, and the fact that it evens out over a long enough time frame does not make this ok - it's an awful, awful experience, and the only people who can shrug and say "it evens out" are the people who are very highly committed to and invested in the game already, with enough time and experience to regulate their negative emotional response to outcomes that feel unfair and outside their control. They are also likely to be playing more matches and thus see this smoothing effect more readily than someone playing on a relatively casual basis, for whom random variance can mean an extremely bad and unenjoyable evening of what should be a leisure time activity.

Those people who can shrug it off are in an absolute minority and the rest of the player base are not salty, not whining and not permanently tilted for an entirely normal take on a very poor aspect of the game's current design.

All of the above does not even mention the games impacted by player skill variance between heroes and the fact that a player is assigned to a role based on the heroes that they play most and are familiar with, so their picking a different hero is going to skew the difference in their skill match substantially more than the matchmaker can account for.

It does not mention the games where players choose to play against the design of the role they've selected, which even making the assumption that they are familiar with this variant play style and have found their correct MMR for it, will badly impact the rest of their team who are not expecting to play to accommodate that play style and are unlikely to be familiar with the requirements of doing so.

It does not mention the games where a player chooses to actively troll and throw the match.

These behaviours crop up on all roles, of course. But the central point is that the tank role is more impactful in this game and makes these team differences very, very hard to overcome. I think some complaining about that is entirely justified.

Here's the thing though - I have seen now many examples of players who while doing "Bronze to GM" playthroughs (with any character, all three roles), fly through the ranks I am sitting in, at an 80% or higher winrate. It is quite clear that were I actually much more skilled than the people around me, I would influence matches to a huge degree, no matter what role I'm in, and fly up in ranking accordingly. While yes, I am sure that in any given match, some people are worse than others, unless they are smurfing or something, it's not dramatically so, and if I'm having trouble breaking out of those ranks, it is entirely on me to get better, because then I will do so. I too get frustrated at times, and in the heat of a moment can think to myself its all someone else's fault. Really though, after the heat of that moment, you've gotta step back and think "well, there's a lot of people who just crush past these ranks without thinking about it. Clearly there are things I need to focus on to get better", or else you're never actually going to get better and get past those ranks. No matchmaker is ever going to be 100% perfect, no game is going to be perfectly even every time, and you are never going to get only games with great team coordination out of random matchmaking. You have to expect that things are not going to be perfect or else you're just literally booting up a disappointment machine every night. It IS possible to just dominate these matches if YOU improve. Your play, even if your tank sucked is NOT perfect. Just make those things better every time and you will progress. If you keep concentrating on the imperfect matchmaker and every little perceived fault in your teammates, you won't get anywhere.

# ¿ Jan 24, 2023 15:35

toadee: Aug 16, 2003; North American Turtle Boy Love Association

SadisTech posted:

If you're saying this because you think I believe I should be ranking up and these tank players are holding me back, no, that's not it at all. Completely not. I have a pretty realistic picture of my own competence and it is decidedly average. Maybe a hair above, on a good day. That is not the issue. I don't know how many times I have to repeat this in the face of flying assumptions.

Then what is it that you want? You are playing where you should be and getting the result you should be getting. Maybe you just don't like Overwatch 2?

# ¿ Jan 24, 2023 16:11

toadee: Aug 16, 2003; North American Turtle Boy Love Association

widespread posted:

Is "better nerf Roadhog" the new "better nerf Genji"

Also lmao they also missed the point where you ult as Sojourn for railgun usage instead of normal shots

The point is Mercy pocketing Soj was especially powerful and unfun (and doubley especially at higher ranks since good Sojourns will be hitting crit damage shots more often, and thus charging even fastererer) because Sojourn getting damage boosted constantly would charge the railgun way faster than originally intended and you'd be getting tons of high damage rail shots in addition to then getting lots of ults.

# ¿ Jan 24, 2023 19:26

toadee: Aug 16, 2003; North American Turtle Boy Love Association

BabyRyoga posted:

Moira is one of the least fun characters in the game, if we are talking her playstyle and kit. If she was more fun, more gold/plat players would probably just spam her until they get to ranks like upper diamond where she starts to be less effective. The fact that you output more because her kit doesn't require her to aim is what gives you the perception that she is fun; people like having an impact, and playing Moira at ranks where she is effective will usually make you feel like you are getting more done than on other supports, even if it isn't necessarily true all the time.

Moira is mostly fun because fade jumping to weird spots and zip zoop zwooping all around is fun. Also nothing more satisfying than fading behind a team to use col. Also you definitely do need to aim to use Moira effectively. Iirc the "beam" for the heal/suck is the same width as Zarya's. It's not like hitscan dps aim but if you don't aim you won't do anything.

# ¿ Jan 25, 2023 04:20

toadee: Aug 16, 2003; North American Turtle Boy Love Association

comedyblissoption posted:

iirc stats affected performance initially on ow1 for all ranks, then they changed it to only affecting below diamond for the remainder of ow1's lifespan

having stats not affect ranking at all could give you more balanced games, but since the game is f2p and people like to smurf it makes it even easier to smurf lol

If you purposely sabotage your games and just do your stomping in small fits sure. I�m a bit confused/not sure what the criteria are then, because I�ve watched bronze to GM playthroughs, even ones where the player was trying to �play at a realistic bronze level� to show people the sorts of easier things they could do to improve beyond those levels, just fly up by 3-4 ranks at a time every 7 wins. So clearly it�s looking at more than just �you win more games than you lost�.

# ¿ Jan 31, 2023 07:17

toadee: Aug 16, 2003; North American Turtle Boy Love Association

Jack Trades posted:

I want to know the reasoning behind nerfing Symmetra, a character that's been bottom 5 according to basically every pro player.

I bet it's "get hosed lmao".

Im certainly not good enough to have an opinion but on most of the tier lists Ive seen from content creators, including former OWL players and people contending for rank #1 spots on ladder, Sym was rated around C to B tier last season with some even ticking her up into A tier. An actual universally panned hero would be Sombra. Like literally everyone put her lowest F tier flat bottom you cannot possibly do worse than this tier.

# ¿ Feb 7, 2023 15:15

toadee: Aug 16, 2003; North American Turtle Boy Love Association

Nutsak posted:

So I'm getting irrationally annoyed at Moira.
Seems as my level (Bronze/Silver I guess? I don't play comp) whenever there's a Moira they just run around sucking the life out of people at 20 meters away and no one can kill them. She self heals from doing damage, fades away when low HP and is generally just a pain to deal with.
I'm just sick of seeing DPS Moira's and want to know how to deal with them better.

Torb turrets are a huge pain for Moira, both because they just automatically shoot her and will 100% hit her but also because she gets no life from right clicking them. Reaper and Mei are also difficult especially for lower ranked Moiras, although Reaper its usually more with getting dove him him, he's probably not just going to be hanging around the backline defending vs a diving Moira.

Also, another Moira is a pretty effective counter if you're playing support. They will just gently caress off and go somewhere less annoying to deal with.

# ¿ Feb 9, 2023 21:38

toadee: Aug 16, 2003; North American Turtle Boy Love Association

headcase posted:

I'm not sure if that's how it works. I think it still ranks you up to there with a 50/50 win rate.

I went 5-2 the other night and stayed the same rank. I'm sure it factors in the skill of who it ended up matching you with, which if it's lower quality means you aren't going to improve in rating much at all.

# ¿ Feb 11, 2023 02:54

toadee: Aug 16, 2003; North American Turtle Boy Love Association

I get that some days are frustrating, but if you find yourself constantly bemoaning other things day in and day out as the reason you don't do well/climb, you have to take a step back to acknowledge that you're the reason you aren't doing well and climbing. As long as there are other people higher than you, clearly there is more you can be doing. Either just stop playing because the process of becoming better is no longer fun, play a different mode, or stop and think more about how to improve

# ¿ Feb 17, 2023 23:16

toadee: Aug 16, 2003; North American Turtle Boy Love Association

I get being snarky and feeling jaded after a while and things like that, but after a point it really does get a bit tiresome. We get it, people make mistakes and companies have to balance being open and communicative with trying to make sure people don�t hate them for making decisions etc. Do you enjoy the game at all anymore? I really enjoy it still. Perhaps take some time to reflect on things you�ve enjoyed recently or just have a discussion about the mega or tactics that isn�t just �lol lmao roflamomayobbq, Blizzard, rofl�. You might find people to be more engaging.

# ¿ Feb 20, 2023 03:07

toadee: Aug 16, 2003; North American Turtle Boy Love Association

Assepoester posted:

I get what everyone was complaining about in the matchmaking now, in the past 2 seasons I've been doing the dailies and never had a problem getting the one win daily within 3 matches or so, on rare occasions 4. Today I had to go 8 casual matches just to get one win. What's going on?

If you keep flipping a coin, sometimes it lands heads 8 times in a row

# ¿ Feb 21, 2023 00:30

toadee: Aug 16, 2003; North American Turtle Boy Love Association

Pattonesque posted:

https://twitter.com/PlayOverwatch/status/1631356319394418688

if they do like an Evangelion collab and make an Asuka D.va skin they'll make enough money to keep the servers on for ten thousand years

Imagine if they did a Spy X Family collab and Kiriko was Yor Forger. Might become a trillion dollar company overnight.

# ¿ Mar 2, 2023 19:49

toadee: Aug 16, 2003; North American Turtle Boy Love Association

Anyone else just having a much better ranked experience this season?

I'm still a pretty new player (this will be my third season ever playing Overwatch), but after two seasons of being hard stuck high bronze/low silver, I started this at Bronze 3 and I'm now Gold 2 with a 67% win rate, thinking Plat is going to be a pretty realistic goal. I don't know if there are matchmaking changes helping things, or if something really just clicked and I made a big jump but I'm just kind of riding the wave. I guess, analyzing it, the biggest difference to me seems to be I am getting a better grasp of overall what is happening during a game, and as a support I'm far more often already sending heals to things that are about to get hit instead of just reacting. I'm not saying I'm some super game genius or anything, but I guess maybe the jump is all down to gaining better game sense. Still it feels like I've just had more comfy matches, far far far fewer leavers, no trolling throwers etc.

# ¿ Apr 19, 2023 19:46

toadee: Aug 16, 2003; North American Turtle Boy Love Association

Pvt. Parts posted:

Unranked to GM runs are a little gross when you think about their impact on the community but I must admit they are fun to watch.

I remember watching Tesla do a Moira bronze to GM run, where he was trying to play just well enough to advance in each rank but not go crazy. After two losses in a row he got annoyed and just let loose for a game in bronze. If I remember correctly he had 78 elims and 32k damage as Moira. For a good part of the match just spawn locking their entire team solo. Obviously if that happened all the time it'd be horrible but it was pretty funny to watch

# ¿ Apr 28, 2023 20:54

toadee: Aug 16, 2003; North American Turtle Boy Love Association

Really Lifeweaver seems, to a relatively unskilled person like me, like a hero that makes sense in a team based context, but most people don't seem to get the distinction between a team game and a multiplayer game. Random matchmaking does not make teams. His kit seems to me like potentially it could be used really well in a very advanced organized play type scenario where people can practice taking full advantage of his abilities to coordinate risky plays, but how does anyone ever expect this to work out with a bunch of randos?

# ¿ May 2, 2023 15:45

toadee: Aug 16, 2003; North American Turtle Boy Love Association

Brendan Rodgers posted:

Yeah the franchises in the OWL all paid millions for the privilege of entering a team into the league and they're all feeling a bit scammed.

Blizzard/OWL also settled a case against the US government recently, something to do with colluding to keep player salaries down.

I know lhcloudy (former OWL tank player) talked on stream a couple months ago very candidly about why he quit. �Basically everyone you see with like one or two exceptions is getting paid league minimum. So you�re earning like, $40,000 USD. Which sounds great to a kid and everything, but you�re working literally 12 hour days, every day. Nothing but scrums and practices and strat sessions all day every day. It�s really a poo poo deal and I�m glad I left�.

# ¿ May 18, 2023 03:32

toadee: Aug 16, 2003; North American Turtle Boy Love Association

dogstile posted:

This is why tanks exist in OW. That way if you don't have fun with crosshair stuff then you can have fun by bullying crosshair users.

And related to this, Moira is actually a dive tank

# ¿ May 22, 2023 17:35

toadee: Aug 16, 2003; North American Turtle Boy Love Association

novaSphere posted:

Well yeah but the cryo blaster actually does damage now and Mei is seriously already very strong currently. I'm worried she'll be just oppressive if she gets even stronger CC.

Someone elsewhere mentioned there was a tweet with more details, saying Meis beam is being reduced to 55 DPS to go along with the new more powerful slow.

# ¿ Jun 6, 2023 23:56

toadee: Aug 16, 2003; North American Turtle Boy Love Association

Lord Packinham posted:

Playing support has been miserable since OW2 launched and it hasn�t gotten better. The new support is so poorly designed that he is essentially a throw pick. I don�t know if I would say OW is in a good spot. I feel like the only people that have liked OW2 are dps mains.

I never played OW1 so I have no basis for comparison here but I'm still enjoying OW2 daily playing 90% support. I started out one tricking Moira but I've been playing Brig, Bap, Kiriko, and Zen more, and gone from Bronze 5 in my first season (Season 2) to peaking Gold 1 this past season. I seem to keep progressing, learning new things and getting better etc. I know lots of people are disappointed with things but, for me personally I don't see it. The game is what it is, it's it's own little niche of an FPS game. If you don't enjoy it then stop playing it. Compared to some other online multiplayer games I play, this one gets tons of attention and balancing.

# ¿ Jun 12, 2023 19:16

toadee: Aug 16, 2003; North American Turtle Boy Love Association

Javik the Seer posted:

This defense of "I have to actively relay information that should be readily available to my team mates" isn't as strong a defense as you think it is lol.

What is wrong with using snipper riffles?

If you find yourself frequently missing ult announcement audio, you can always turn on subtitles

# ¿ Jun 13, 2023 16:25

toadee: Aug 16, 2003; North American Turtle Boy Love Association

SirFozzie posted:

Overwatch Hell is REAL. I have proof (note, I didn't say ELO Hell, overwatch hell)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-8A6RlsKV0

For those who don't have the patience, a silver Rialto game filled with BOTH teams consistently racing to the cart out of spawn in Overitme, leading to staggers, repeated completes, and a Tank that quite possibly is aimbotting as they charge and firestrike.. the wall and the cart repeatedly. It was 15-13 when the replay viewer finally crapped out)

The tank and the soldier were duo'd and trying to purposely keep the lobby hostage. If you watch them closely, on attack they are constantly getting good picks on the backline. Then suddenly on defense, every time, the tank shoots the cart nonstop, and the soldier just dumps ammo into the enemy tank. They were smurfs screwing around with a low elo lobby.

# ¿ Jun 14, 2023 18:03

toadee: Aug 16, 2003; North American Turtle Boy Love Association

SirFozzie posted:

In honor of the late Iron Shiek, here's your result from today's Overwatch World Cup Qualifiers:

USA 2, CANADA HACK-PATOOEY!

# ¿ Jun 24, 2023 02:23

toadee: Aug 16, 2003; North American Turtle Boy Love Association

Jack Trades posted:

I'm even necessarily opposed to nerfing healing, but doing that would require Blizzard to make interesting Support characters that do something other than hold LMB on their allies and that's clearly outside of their capabilities.

Lucio? Zen? Brig? Bap?

If healing is so OP, why do most of the super high ranked support mains and people who teach how to ladder well with supports preach off angling for damage as the most effective strat for supports? Like probably the best thing you can do with almost any support is take an off angle, distract 2-3 people on the enemy team at the beginning of a team fight, use whatever ability you have to duck into cover once they are distracted and focusing you, and then let your team roll the 4v2 you created then mop up the people you distracted?

# ¿ Jul 21, 2023 15:07

toadee: Aug 16, 2003; North American Turtle Boy Love Association

dogstile posted:

That's kinda the same with all ladder climbing tbh. You mostly just want to create lopsided fights in favour of your team even if you personally aren't going to be doing much.

I got to GM on DPS before I could even aim well by being a loving pest.

Awkward had a video where he would off angle as Kiriko to distract people and then purposely throw all of his knives into a wall, and his team won every fight, just to point how how important the distraction is compared to hitting shots. Game was in Diamond as well.

# ¿ Jul 21, 2023 15:17

toadee: Aug 16, 2003; North American Turtle Boy Love Association

Honestly, I haven't climbed to huge heights or anything (Im a mid 40s boomer who hasn't played an FPS seriously since Quake 2), but I climbed from mid Bronze to now bouncing between high Gold low Plat simply by applying mostly Awkward's principles. Just off angle, distract people at the beginning of team fights, and take up 2 people's attention as much as possible. You will win. Thats it, thats the skill. The more you can do that without dying, the higher you will climb.

# ¿ Jul 25, 2023 03:31

toadee: Aug 16, 2003; North American Turtle Boy Love Association

dogstile posted:

If you look at the top500 for dps its all mostly pharah and echo (unless that's changed in the last week) because those characters are also overtuned to poo poo, hitscan isn't really strong enough against them.

From this season

# ¿ Jul 25, 2023 17:15

toadee: Aug 16, 2003; North American Turtle Boy Love Association

Illari does something Lifeweaver still manages to avoid: feel fun and satisfying.

# ¿ Aug 10, 2023 22:23

toadee: Aug 16, 2003; North American Turtle Boy Love Association

I think it's a bit early to say Lifeweaver is still bad, the latest buffs are kind of insane. The change to 50 armor worth of health, the Tree of Life overhealth buff, further thorn volley spread buffs, the increased heal from his dash...... I mean there has to be a point where all of these things add up to just an unkillable blob of health

# ¿ Aug 12, 2023 16:14

toadee: Aug 16, 2003; North American Turtle Boy Love Association

AndNowMax posted:

I�m curious how Illari is going to age once people get used to her. The complaint about Moira for years has been that she has no utility; she can damage, heal, and escape, and that�s it. That seems to describe Illari to a T. Are people going to say the same thing about her, or does she have more pop-off potential to make up for it?

The only place that complaint is valid is in organized comp play or maybe pushing in high GM/T500. For anything lower, Moira provides some of the best utility possible for ladder pushing: she can safely distract 2-3 players at the beginning of a team fight and reliably escape when things go bad. That's literally all you need out of any hero to push all the way to GM. You just have to constantly refine what the current definition of distract, safety, and escape are for each new skill level.

# ¿ Aug 12, 2023 19:24

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# ¿ May 10, 2024 08:36

toadee: Aug 16, 2003; North American Turtle Boy Love Association

I don't have any general complaint with healing either. To me saying "this core part of Overwatch is frustrating and these other games get it right" just means the person saying it should go play those other games then. The answer is not "make every game play the way I like to play", clearly a lot of people like Overwatch�s unique flow .

# ¿ Aug 13, 2023 07:06

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Overwatch 2: you can just rip off TF2

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