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Homelessness and crimewave and addiction comes up from time to time but its a really interesting trend going on where inadequate solutions have failed to provide any noticeable improvement and social and economic forces are exasperating systems already wholly inadequate in size/scope/approach The answer, it seems, is to get crueler. People are fed up, local media has created an echo chamber for the loudest and angriest voices, and local leaders are more than happy to bust out their law and order bona fides What can be done?  not much imo were at a place where the local media echo chamber and cynical leadership has pretty much ensured the public generally is way too worked up to consider long term approaches, this needs fixing now and thats thatSo whats the point of making a thread on this topic instead of just idk posting in Succzone when it comes up? Mostly I just want a place to scream into the wind and post articles from local media and laugh at the idiots and just idk Im pretty sure the die is cast and were getting close to formal internment camps but maybe Im just a negative Nancy https://www.opb.org/article/2022/10/06/homelessness-surging-in-many-us-cities-including-portland/ quote:Some of the biggest increases are in West Coast cities such as Sacramento and Portland, Oregon, where growing homelessness has become a humanitarian crisis and political football over the past decade. Numbers are also up about 30% in South Dakota and Prince Georges County, Maryland, and 15% in Asheville, North Carolina. Anyway, Im from Portland and so thats the local media Im consuming but feel free to share your stuff from your neck of the woods. Our mayor I guess wants to try to ban all camping and local tv station got the views of some locals, really explored public opinion from a number of angles. Here are the direct quotes, leaving out the politicians and such. Pretty remarkable set of voices they found that included not a single homeless person or anyone in opposition to the plan lol https://www.koin.com/local/multnomah-county/portlanders-candidates-react-to-wheelers-possible-camping-ban/ quote:I think its a step in the right direction. I think the devils in the details. There are a lot of questions, obviously, said Doug Richards, who lives downtown. I want to hear that outdoor camping on streets and public rights of way be prohibited. quote:Rosemary Adamski, who lives in the Foster-Powell neighborhood, told KOIN 6 News I want to hear that outdoor camping on streets and public rights of way be prohibited. quote:The people on the street are suffering. They are being enabled to continue a lifestyle that will really only lead in death, Rose said. Stop providing supplies. And yes, I do think some of them will be like, you know what, the city isnt for me anymore. Rose recently founded the site Trash Sheep, to let people share how this crisis is impacting them. The last one is my favorite. The website especially is some hot garbage Here are a few conversation prompts. Whats going to happen next? Ban camping using the pretext of safe open lots where people will be compelled to go. What if people dont want to go there? Violence probably. Will these sanctioned camps be tucked away out of sight and heavily policed? Thats my expectation. Will people be allowed to come and go freely? Probably at first but I think the ratchet will tighten. Will this result in any long term solutions to inequality or other factors driving the crisis? Lmao. Will Oregon, California, or Washington be the state that puts up a direct challenge to Martin v. Boise?
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Oct 16, 2022 19:57
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sad idea for a thread because we all know not one part of this country is going to make a serious attempt to help these people. "mutual aid"/charity work is good to do but don't let it make you too insane and depressed
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Oct 16, 2022 20:39
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SorePotato posted:sad idea for a thread because we all know not one part of this country is going to make a serious attempt to help these people. "mutual aid"/charity work is good to do but don't let it make you too insane and depressed Yeah I kind of made it envisioning a place to talk about local politics and local media that doesnt seem to fit in NYT thread or Succ exactly. Where people could catalog and mock the bloodthirsty progressives Like I said I dont think the way this is all going is even stoppable at this point, the energy for cruelty is overwhelming
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Oct 16, 2022 21:00
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In Los Angeles County there are 69'000 homeless people https://spectrumnews1.com/ca/la-west/homelessness/2022/09/08/tktk-people-are-homeless-in-la--according-to-new-lahsa-count In Los Angeles City (Los Angeles County has over 40 cities in it, most with their own police force) The Police cost 46% of the budget, at over 3 Billion dollars https://mejiaforcontroller.com/budget/ mazzi Chart Czar has issued a correction as of 21:16 on Oct 16, 2022 |
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Oct 16, 2022 21:12
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Russia and China are bigger problems for me than homelessness and poverty. I know this because Democrats and Republicans said so.
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Oct 16, 2022 21:12
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Sounds like Wheeler just wants the sit-lie ordinance back despite it being struck down by the courts as hilariously unconstitutional multiple times
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Oct 16, 2022 21:27
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mazzi Chart Czar posted:In Los Angeles County there are 69'000 homeless people Given the tendency for those to be hilarious undercounts the real number for LA county wouldnt surprise me if it was well over six figures Fortaleza posted:Sounds like Wheeler just wants the sit-lie ordinance back despite it being struck down by the courts as hilariously unconstitutional multiple times The strategy I believe is to try to adhere to Martin v Boise by making a number of available spaces that exist, at least on paper, regardless of whether they are actually in areas that make any sense. Once in place that will be argued to fulfill the somewhere to go requirement at the heart of Boise I do think theres going to be a push to get the ninth to revisit and overturn Boise but that is a multi year thing
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Oct 16, 2022 21:31
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HashtagGirlboss posted:Yeah I kind of made it envisioning a place to talk about local politics and local media that doesnt seem to fit in NYT thread or Succ exactly. Where people could catalog and mock the bloodthirsty progressives Citation's Needed recently did an episode about the TYT talking about homelessness. TYT sounded exactly like those conservative media outlets talking about the knock out game years ago. I think the individual threads are good for these kinds of topic, the megathreads tend to get too cluttered.
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Oct 16, 2022 21:40
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Has anybody proposed using the riot bulldozers to solve the homelessness problem?
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Oct 16, 2022 22:30
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we need to solve the homeless friend problem first IMO
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Oct 16, 2022 22:34
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lumpentroll posted:we need to solve the homeless friend problem first IMO do you have a homeless friend?
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Oct 16, 2022 23:01
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we all do
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Oct 16, 2022 23:02
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yes, in the evening we all do
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Oct 16, 2022 23:03
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Housing is so expensive in Canada that tent encampments are springing up even outside major cities, and while a lot of the country is struggling with bills and I've been surprised by how much sympathy I've seen for people forced onto the street by inability to pay rent, there's also been the predictable reactionary backlash along the lines of "I'm a small business owner opposite one of these encampments and I say we kill them all because their existence in front of my business costs me money".
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Oct 17, 2022 00:03
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Cities in Canada sometimes talk a big game about trying to solve housing crises or take action on homelessness, because they tend to be more liberal than the conservative surrounding countryside, just like in the US. But cities up north are very weak political entities because constitutionally speaking they don't exist. They are 100% legislative creations of the provinces and the province has the power to do whatever they want with cities as a result. They can devolve extra powers but not extra revenue generation tools, or they can take away control over essential services, or they can dissolve or amalgamate cities at will, etc. So for instance Toronto, the biggest city in Canada doesn't control its own police budget. The police set their own budget through an independent board appointed by the province, and the city then gets to either vote yes or no on that budget but they get no power to change the budget. This means it's very easy for municipal politicians to talk a big game on housing or homelessness because they often actually have very little power to do anything about it, and sometimes even less power over the militarized police response to homelessness that results from the failure of housing policy.
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Oct 17, 2022 00:08
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It definitely needs government intervention in the US but there is no way that it happens. I live in Seattle and it's just been getting worse and worse. It's heartbreaking seeing so much human misery out on display and no one really gives a poo poo.
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Oct 17, 2022 00:14
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America hates the homeless so much, one of our major sports teams based their mascot off a sculpture designed to keep homeless people from camping under a bridge https://twitter.com/NHLGIFs/status/1581478645347938304?t=E0cVBBs72DyxoExvFjRYXg&s=19  (im sure AIT is familiar but I wasn't when they first unveiled it and I hate it even more)
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Oct 17, 2022 00:26
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AnimeIsTrash posted:It definitely needs government intervention in the US but there is no way that it happens. I live in Seattle and it's just been getting worse and worse. It's heartbreaking seeing so much human misery out on display and no one really gives a poo poo. One of the two leading candidates for mayor in Toronto right now has some kind of plan to establish a fund to build a lot of new homes for poor people modeled on Vienna's public housing. They are running 60-20 behind the current mayor who has presided over eight years of an enormous worsening unaffordability crisis and primarily brags about keeping property tax increases below the cost of inflation during an enormous property bubble even while the city and its services fall to pieces.
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Oct 17, 2022 00:28
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vyelkin posted:Housing is so expensive in Canada that tent encampments are springing up even outside major cities, and while a lot of the country is struggling with bills and I've been surprised by how much sympathy I've seen for people forced onto the street by inability to pay rent, there's also been the predictable reactionary backlash along the lines of "I'm a small business owner opposite one of these encampments and I say we kill them all because their existence in front of my business costs me money". How long has the crisis been going on? I feel like theres a lot less community good will and a lot more sympathy for reactionary backlash then there was even five years ago AnimeIsTrash posted:It definitely needs government intervention in the US but there is no way that it happens. I live in Seattle and it's just been getting worse and worse. It's heartbreaking seeing so much human misery out on display and no one really gives a poo poo. Oh they give a poo poo, its just that the poo poo they give is really about their own frustration having to see and experience the human misery. One thing is that all the people out there are individuals with complicated histories and circumstances that one way or another brought them where they are. But nobody cares about that or what the path was. Its just constant dehumanization they move here for our generous services and they really just need to be in an institution and the addicts mind is a simple thing, ever seeking to maximize its own pleasure at the expense of the community Its really frustrating too, because I dont think the outdoor camps are good or safe or humane either! But the alternatives being suggested are even worse at best and often enough just outright cruel
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Oct 17, 2022 00:37
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Frequently, if a Canadian city votes against the police budget they've been handled, the senior level of government straight up tells them to vote again but with yes.HashtagGirlboss posted:How long has the crisis been going on? I feel like theres a lot less community good will and a lot more sympathy for reactionary backlash then there was even five years ago Depends on where you live but 10-20 years is a reasonable measure. When you add that to what Covid has done to marginalized groups, it is a bit of a horror show.
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Oct 17, 2022 02:23
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Good soup! posted:America hates the homeless so much, one of our major sports teams based their mascot off a sculpture designed to keep homeless people from camping under a bridge Wait that's why that sculpture is there? When i visited for the first time it was basically introduced to me as a whimsical landmark. What the gently caress lol
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Oct 17, 2022 02:34
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Yeah it's hosed upquote:The Fremont Troll (also known as The Troll, or the Troll Under the Bridge) is a public sculpture in the Fremont neighborhood of Seattle, Washington in the United States. The Fremont Troll is an example of hostile architecture, having been erected to deter the presence of homeless people and antisocial behavior under the bridge after winning a competition held by the Fremont Arts Council.
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Oct 17, 2022 02:38
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HashtagGirlboss posted:How long has the crisis been going on? I feel like theres a lot less community good will and a lot more sympathy for reactionary backlash then there was even five years ago Canada's housing bubble never really deflated after 2008 like the US's did so it's something like 20 years of steadily rising prices that exploded with Covid meaning that marginalized groups were worse off than before and well-off groups suddenly had a whole lot of extra money in their pockets to speculate on real estate.
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Oct 17, 2022 02:48
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vyelkin posted:Housing is so expensive in Canada that tent encampments are springing up even outside major cities, and while a lot of the country is struggling with bills and I've been surprised by how much sympathy I've seen for people forced onto the street by inability to pay rent, there's also been the predictable reactionary backlash along the lines of "I'm a small business owner opposite one of these encampments and I say we kill them all because their existence in front of my business costs me money". Following politics on twitter is too depressing because you get to watch people trip over their dicks into positions like "Microsoft should be allowed to vote in the Vancouver elections, and I shouldn't because I rent"
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Oct 17, 2022 05:01
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Also, wasn't Toronto originally much smaller and was forced to combine with other cities even when the public itself voted against it? As for Portland, it is obvious the city is doing everything possible to force homeless people away from major streets in an "out of view, out of mind" approach. This along side a major crime as well an massive number of overdoses. I would say in Portland it also so stark because even around 7 years ago (before the big surge in rent/housing prices) it was nowhere even close to this bad. It just feels like a faded facade of the city it once was.
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Oct 17, 2022 07:19
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Ardennes posted:Also, wasn't Toronto originally much smaller and was forced to combine with other cities even when the public itself voted against it? Yes, Toronto was forcibly amalgamated with five surrounding cities even though all six cities rejected amalgamation overwhelmingly in a series of referenda, because a conservative provincial government wanted to dilute the votes of dense Toronto voters with the surrounding suburbs. The result has been a city that takes worse care of its people and its infrastructure because now the interests of car-dependent suburbanites tend to outweigh the interests of renters or those dependent on city services.
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Oct 17, 2022 12:39
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owI7DOeO_yg
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Oct 17, 2022 16:01
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NYC sucks so bad for this. Eric Adams doesn't even pretend to do the blue-progressive language or even token investment in safety net programs (deblasio at least introduced the most minor of improvements like Means Tested half price transit or w/e). It's just open, violent crackdowns on homeless encampments, near weekly pledges of more cops on subways and a pledge to sell off as much real estate to billionaire investors possible. He calls it The City of Yes. Hate his guts. I wonder how long into his administration he will try to bring back stop and frisk, which was a campaign promise. His first week back in office he reinstituted the plainclothes unit that ran the stop-and-frisk operation, meaning the practice was ended for a whopping 2 years. I'm sure it's already back in full force with 0 reporting. Local news is nothing but black teens getting arrested for Gangs or Drugs or having a mental breakdown on a subway station. It was especially egregious during the 2021 dem primary, NYPD invented a Crime Wave to help him win the election (although all his opposition was trash anyway, not really helping there). Wish I could find a good summary for what happened in May/Jun/Jul '21 but it's difficulty for search for. Every piece of local reporting was harping on an "astronomical year over year jump in crime!!!" ignoring a fairly glaring reason for why 2020 may not have been a normal year to consider any social statistics from in the US. Edit: this is more generally about how the phenomenon unfolds in NY media and I'm sure it doesn't surprise people here that the NY Post is a hateful rag lol. But it's good coverage https://fair.org/home/the-thin-blue-lies-behind-crime-wave-hype/
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Oct 17, 2022 16:02
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In Training posted:NYC sucks so bad for this. Eric Adams doesn't even pretend to do the blue-progressive language or even token investment in safety net programs (deblasio at least introduced the most minor of improvements like Means Tested half price transit or w/e). It's just open, violent crackdowns on homeless encampments, near weekly pledges of more cops on subways and a pledge to sell off as much real estate to billionaire investors possible. He calls it The City of Yes. Hate his guts. I wonder how long into his administration he will try to bring back stop and frisk, which was a campaign promise. His first week back in office he reinstituted the plainclothes unit that ran the stop-and-frisk operation, meaning the practice was ended for a whopping 2 years. I'm sure it's already back in full force with 0 reporting. The crime wave narrative is really powerful because you just flood peoples brains with horrible poo poo 24/7 until theyre afraid to step out the front door. Youd think itd be counterproductive for business interests, especially the ones that really want commuters to start coming back
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Oct 17, 2022 17:05
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it's always shocking to me to see the monstrous, depraved cruelty people have for the homeless. I mean, I get why: homelessness is the punishment you get for not (or not being able to) play by the rules and do the things capital demands you do. You get completely unpersoned, and that's the unspoken punishment hanging over the head of everyone who doesn't have a lifetime of unearned wealth to lean back on. I think deep inside everyone understands this, even if they can't articulate it, and that profound fear manifests itself in an intense and inhuman hate. The cruelty exacted on the homeless intensifies the feelings of non-personness, which helps fuel the hate, which intensifies the cruelties, and so on. I don't think any of this is going to get better anytime soon; I think it's going to get significantly worse very quickly. It's the knife at everyone's throat and as the average American life gets worse and worse, people are going to need to be reminded about the knife more often, and that's going to mean more, crueler, and more visible punishments for the crime of homelessness. I think probably there will be a wave of laws that remove the unhoused from places they can "interfere with business interests" or whatever -- so the outskirts of the city, minority-predominant residential zones, etc, which will coincide with an increase in police predation on the homeless, both those who "violate" the encampment zone mandates and on the encampments themselves for whatever invented pretense
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Oct 17, 2022 17:35
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Sometimes there are a couple of people sleeping at the municipal rail station, and occasionally a taxi driver will sleep in his cab outside my home, and I am deeply saddened by it. Thankfully there are Career Training programmes tied to temporary residency in public housing, as well as volunteer programs for food delivery, counseling, and companionship. And of course all are eligible for annual housing lotteries. All it requires is a phone call to one of several public agencies. Thinking back to my American roommates telling me being an American was the best thing in the world, back in 2013, then seeing the horrors of san francisco in the summer with my own eyes. Truly a degenerate and primitive society compared to singapore
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Oct 17, 2022 17:49
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Pentecoastal Elites posted:it's always shocking to me to see the monstrous, depraved cruelty people have for the homeless. The homelessness crisis and the crime wave are being driven by this whole trend, but, in tandem with police strikes and bureaucratic morass tying up various law enforcement areas (parole enforcement, the courts, etc) its all being used by local leadership, business interests, and local medi to drive a desperate angry trend to just take law enforcement back to broken windows/stop and frisk era and beyond Theyre going to install this shotspotter stuff in Portland. Basically listening devices of nebulous usefulness for their stated purpose of detecting gunshots (lol)
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Oct 17, 2022 17:56
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In Training posted:NYC sucks so bad .... Yes. Homelessness is so omnipresent it's just part of the background. Given the recent mayoral election the city govt is unlikely to help much in the near future, aside from in an NY Post-esque "round them up" sense. The coming increase in unemployment will just make it worse. One thing I've noticed more recently are people living in their cars while permanently parked in on-street parking, or in cars parked on empty off-ramps at night. They're easy to miss and makes me wonder how many homeless or precarious people are hiding out of view, not in the more visible permanent encampments or sleeping on sidewalks.
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Oct 17, 2022 17:58
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HashtagGirlboss posted:The homelessness crisis and the crime wave are being driven by this whole trend, but, in tandem with police strikes and bureaucratic morass tying up various law enforcement areas (parole enforcement, the courts, etc) its all being used by local leadership, business interests, and local medi to drive a desperate angry trend to just take law enforcement back to broken windows/stop and frisk era and beyond yeah I agree. I think this is how police poo poo is going to ramp up despite uvalde-esque stuff happening more and being more visible. the police will continue to select for intensely cowardly sociopaths who will be more and more bloodthirsty but more and more adverse to doing any actual, potentially dangerous, police work. But they'll still need something to actually do and the "homeless problem" provides a big, utterly defenseless, target that doesn't even have the sort of political unsavoriness that is now becoming more associated with the classic victims of psychopath policing, such as black children. Cops will be able to drive their APCs through homeless encampments guns blazing and they'll get all the attaboys they'll ever need from grateful libs freshly back from their latest BLM rally or pussy hat march.
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Oct 17, 2022 18:13
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Eric Adams is the cop king of new york
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Oct 17, 2022 18:25
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https://twitter.com/SusanSarandon/status/1581991330812551169?s=20&t=XKLqmBjG-KOxmV9YMC2SaA
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Oct 17, 2022 18:37
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literal brandonvilles.
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Oct 17, 2022 18:42
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HashtagGirlboss posted:Whats going to happen next? Ban camping using the pretext of safe open lots where people will be compelled to go. This is the one I roll around in my head a lot. I live in Portland, Oregon so homelessness is a visible thing and I know that I would be joining the people on the streets if I lost my job and/or had a major health event. Ultimately, I see homelessness as one of the "outcome is bad but causes are very good" things that will never and can never get better under the liberal capitalist regime. Beyond that, homelessness, and the threat of homelessness, are not byproducts but main products of the current economic and political systems. Homelessness cannot be solved because the current system produces homelessness. I don't know when or if we will ever get to the point where the homeless are openly executed on the street. As things get worse though, the liberals will become more and more open to extreme solutions. I feel like there is still a long way to go in making the lives of the homeless even more miserable. I'll know we are closer to that end goal when more liberals go on television to cut commercials about how they will personally destroy private property due to the owner having no fixed address. That is the real radicalization: destruction of private property. We all know liberals don't value life at one jot but seeing liberals destroy private property is a sign of extremism.
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Oct 17, 2022 18:54
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HashtagGirlboss posted:The crime wave narrative is really powerful because you just flood peoples brains with horrible poo poo 24/7 until theyre afraid to step out the front door. you can see people's brains turning to mush by the news and true crime podcasts in real time on tiktok where you can watch people flip out driving around parking lots and pointing out cars that are parked either too far apart or too close together and cite that as evidence of child trafficking
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Oct 17, 2022 18:57
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bedpan posted:This is the one I roll around in my head a lot. I live in Portland, Oregon so homelessness is a visible thing and I know that I would be joining the people on the streets if I lost my job and/or had a major health event. Basically you'll know it's really bad when you don't see homelessness anymore
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Oct 17, 2022 18:58
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