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I wonder how much housing could be built on the average golf course
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Jan 10, 2024 06:47
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The Voice of Labor posted:I wonder how much housing could be built on the average golf course
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Jan 10, 2024 07:22
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the Mods, they knew!
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HashtagGirlboss posted:It’s not complicated at all. Provide people with space to be indoors and then go from there, it won’t fix everything but it’s an incredibly simple solution to the current state of things You have good points about the city being divided and peoples support being tepid, as soon as a tax or something comes up support disappears. Everyone has to have housing not should - easy to say... Discrete details of that in execution? Apartments? Micro houses? Townhouses? Multifamily? Single? Where are they built? Who builds them? What gets built first? Who lives in them after the original owner no longer lives there? None of those are related to capital or funding - which have to be answered given portland is within a capitalist society. You can't simply replace should with must and say it's that simple. The execution needs details, and the details get complicated.
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Jan 10, 2024 17:40
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Bro I actually just watched this whole thing and its so loving depressing. I don't actually live in the city(but I work in South San Francisco) but its weird knowing just close I am to such a hosed situation for so many people that are trapped. Like, even a lot of the non-homeless people who aren't tech bros are working 2-3 jobs with sketchy side hustles just so they can get by living in some lovely rear end studio apartment in a rough neighborhood. Umm gently caress you, city.
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Jan 10, 2024 18:00
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BillsPhoenix posted:You have good points about the city being divided and peoples support being tepid, as soon as a tax or something comes up support disappears. It’s complicated because people make it more complicated than it needs to be We have plenty of vacant housing units in all the mid-rise apartment buildings that went up on division and burnside and Williams and etc and etc and we have plenty of land inside the city that could be redeveloped into multi family housing - but you benefit by making it complicated because the strivers who live in those mid-rises don’t want to live next to poor people even if most of them would never admit it, and developers see way more money in arguing to expand the UGB to build $700k suburban sfhs rather than infill It’s complicated because people take other people at their worst/most desperate moments and define them by that. Somebody deep in a meth binge or suffering severe psychosis isn’t that person at all moments, but those moments are used to explain why these people are beyond help and need to be institutionalized, never mind that treating serious diagnosis like bipolar or schizophrenia are far easier if someone has housing, as is helping someone overcome SUD If you’re saying it’s complicated because people with money want to draw clean lines between haves and have nots and hold themselves up as morally superior and maintain extreme inequality to their benefit, that’s not complicated either, those people are just assholes and need to be reminded of it, and called out when they start talking out of both sides of their mouth Idk, none of it seems very complicated to me. It more seems like people are doing their absolute best to make it hard because they don’t like the simple solution
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Jan 10, 2024 18:28
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Also yeah of course laws are complicated to implement, that's why we pay people to do it. Computers are complicated too, but we still use them
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Jan 10, 2024 18:44
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Ytlaya posted:Sometimes you can get by on outpatient suboxone instead of inpatient, which is all the more reason that the status quo is unacceptable. Treating addiction is very hard, but keeping addicts alive is a far more solvable problem. I think you’re mistaken about this. it’s way easier to prescribe and be prescribed OAT than traditional opiates / opioids. tho I’m Canadian and not American so this strikes me as a weird take as it’s entirely opposite my own experience. because of the overdose crisis they’ve started to reduce barriers some and nurses have been permitted to script subs or methadone or other OAT here in BC. we have safe supply laws too but access is another thing additionally it’s much easier to get into an OAT program and have your pain needs met that way (you can even get meds same day via a rapid access clinic vs the significant gatekeeping of pain clinics) than to try the same thru pain clinics as doctors will actually work with you and are willing to up your dose to manage pain and addiction, and you’re way less likely to be suddenly taken off the program for political reasons, which is a thing pain patients need to contend with post pill-wave OldAlias has issued a correction as of 19:32 on Jan 10, 2024 |
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Jan 10, 2024 18:56
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you’re also way more likely here to have suboxone scripted to you like a normal medication. before I switched to methadone I got to a point where they just gave me a months worth at a time, and I no longer needed to do witnessed dosing or even provide urine samples. with methadone tho I only get a week of carrys, so I need to go to the pharmacy once a week, with one witnessed dose, and have to have my piss tested. I know the system in the US is more… punishing and paternalistic. even here tho there are ppl who for whatever reason will be required to come in daily regardless of their stability, which is more likely if you’re homeless or a racialized minority or something. Australia sounds like they have a better system than both of ours as in some places they only piss test the once on getting into a clinic and then never again, and treat you more like a normal patient around prescribing and collecting medication OldAlias has issued a correction as of 19:29 on Jan 10, 2024 |
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Jan 10, 2024 19:10
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"it's all just so complicated" i say sadly as i rip a human being's only shelter from sub-zero temperatures to shreds and leave them to die
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Jan 10, 2024 19:13
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being mean to someone on purpose doesn't feel as bad as being nice to someone on accident. I think that's the lesson from libs.
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Jan 10, 2024 19:15
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"we just need to acknowledge that this is really complex" i say, shaking my head, as i steal someone's only worldly possessions including their medications and throw them in a dumpster
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Jan 10, 2024 19:36
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I was making about a counter post about the city growth and lack of development but... You're right, people don't generally support it. Last night it snowed. Winter storm inbound. Right now maybe housing/apartments are short, but hotel rooms are easily available. The city could easily put everyone off the streets and in a room for even just a week with minimal cost. It's not complicated to execute. Instead not even the emergency shelters are open because the weather forecast isn't cold enough to trigger. Maybe parts are complicated, but that's not really the issue.
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Jan 10, 2024 19:51
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Everything is complicated if you're stupid or playing stupid.
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Jan 10, 2024 20:47
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Some people want a public safety net, some people want auschwitz, does that make it complex?
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Jan 10, 2024 21:08
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Al! posted:did portland ever get those concentration camps built or did that godawful project fail because NIMBYism did something good for a change? I wonder how many people even know, let alone remember, that those "Safe Rest Villages" were opened at the start of the pandemic, and from then until late 2021 were run collectively by the people who lived in them, following the models used by existing local self-governed houseless villages/shelters, with just a couple outside paid "coordinators" per village to provide support who had no voting power and in that time there was not one single instance of COVID transmission in any of them hard proof that you could hand the keys to the kingdom to the people who live in any particular shelter or whatever and they could do a better job running the place than any of these nonprofit fuckers. so of course they couldn't be allowed to last
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Jan 10, 2024 22:11
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Covid was, of course, terrible - but it scared elites enough to treat everyone else decently and that was so absolutely blackpilling.
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Jan 11, 2024 00:34
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VROOM VROOM posted:I wonder how many people even know, let alone remember, that those "Safe Rest Villages" were opened at the start of the pandemic, and from then until late 2021 were run collectively by the people who lived in them, following the models used by existing local self-governed houseless villages/shelters, with just a couple outside paid "coordinators" per village to provide support who had no voting power I don't believe this at all but sure.
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Jan 11, 2024 03:21
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you are welcome to specify which part you do not believe but I can assure you you are wrong as hell
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Jan 11, 2024 03:27
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DR FRASIER KRANG posted:I don't believe this at all but sure. VROOM VROOM posted:you are welcome to specify which part you do not believe but I can assure you you are wrong as hell Seconding vroom vroom on this one, and before the covid safe rest there was the right to dream 2 camp that managed itself quite effectively in the absence of any city support for quite a while before it got swept so the building across the street could be redeveloped
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Jan 11, 2024 03:32
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I mean the Covid part not being transmitted. sorry that specific claim is unbelievable.
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Jan 11, 2024 03:48
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it's true.HashtagGirlboss posted:Seconding vroom vroom on this one, and before the covid safe rest there was the right to dream 2 camp that managed itself quite effectively in the absence of any city support for quite a while before it got swept so the building across the street could be redeveloped R2D2 still exists in the shadow of the Moda Center which is very funny, one of the staff parking lot entrances is right next to it
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Jan 11, 2024 04:13
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OldAlias posted:I think you’re mistaken about this. it’s way easier to prescribe and be prescribed OAT than traditional opiates / opioids. tho I’m Canadian and not American so this strikes me as a weird take as it’s entirely opposite my own experience. because of the overdose crisis they’ve started to reduce barriers some and nurses have been permitted to script subs or methadone or other OAT here in BC. we have safe supply laws too but access is another thing I don't know if this is the case in Canada, but in the US doctors need a special license to prescribe buprenorphine, while any GP can prescribe, say, percocet. And suboxone/bupe doctors are limited in the number of patients they can take and constantly under scrutiny. You can easily find a bunch of articles about the DEA cracking down on suboxone clinics. This means that if my doctor suddenly died*, I'd need to check with the various suboxone doctors in my city and cross my fingers that one of the decent ones has slots open. I can't simply go to any doctor to deal with it. This isn't a huge issue in larger cities, but it can definitely be one in less urban areas. * this has actually happened to me before with an earlier doctor Edit: You also definitely can't get months at a time, and I'm very envious of that if it's possible in other places! Pharmacies are very strict with controlled substances (though their treatment of suboxone is basically identical to other opiates in this regard). I can't even have my prescription filled until the day my previous one runs out. Ytlaya has issued a correction as of 05:01 on Jan 11, 2024 |
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Jan 11, 2024 04:58
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Ytlaya posted:I don't know if this is the case in Canada, but in the US doctors need a special license to prescribe buprenorphine, while any GP can prescribe, say, percocet. And suboxone/bupe doctors are limited in the number of patients they can take and constantly under scrutiny. You can easily find a bunch of articles about the DEA cracking down on suboxone clinics. drat. I appreciate the explanation, thanks! it’s helpful to know what it’s like in other places. & sorry you had to deal with that. thats like totally backwards to what you’d hope, you’d hope they’d make it easier to prescribe OAT given *hand waives* not extra difficult
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Jan 11, 2024 05:11
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HashtagGirlboss posted:Seconding vroom vroom on this one, and before the covid safe rest there was the right to dream 2 camp that managed itself quite effectively in the absence of any city support for quite a while before it got swept so the building across the street could be redeveloped Multnomah County explicitly says they didn't record covid data on homeless in 20 or 21 (nor a lot of data). So it's not really a claim that can be made. Anecdotally the village closest to me seems to not only house 60 people, but reduced crime and drug use on that block. Well thought out and located. Seems to have successfully transitioned people to more permanent housing as well. The RV village near the airport (is funded by the safe village program) otoh... has destroyed a fair bit of wet land and had some traffic deaths. It also provides almost nothing by comparison to the village, a couple toilets and weekly trash service. Its a new program, I think they can continue with the successful models, but not sure people will vote to fund it, most major media outlets seem to despise them.
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Jan 11, 2024 22:19
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when tech workers end up homeless in droves, america will finally take notice. mostly because camp intel brighter tomorrow is going to be such a hotbed of tech bro villainy that it can't be ignored
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Jan 11, 2024 22:25
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Here we go https://twitter.com/politico/status/1745912441572135128 Things are about to get a whole hell of a lot more cruel, and they’re already extremely cruel Article says arguments in April and so probably drop with all the other June decisions, just in time for cities to pass criminalization ordinances in preparation for the fall election!
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Jan 13, 2024 02:35
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maybe the court wants to make gavin mad more than it wants to kill poor people this time.
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Jan 13, 2024 16:49
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Real hurthling! posted:maybe the court wants to make gavin mad more than it wants to kill poor people this time. They're still American, nothing comes before punishing the poor
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Jan 13, 2024 16:53
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Real hurthling! posted:maybe the court wants to make gavin mad more than it wants to kill poor people this time. Alito might want to stick it to blue cities, maybe Kav and Thomas. Gorsuch has a weirdo libertarian streak. I doubt it’ll be close but if it does split 6-3 or 5-4 expect the liberals to be on the bad side
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Jan 13, 2024 18:28
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I think the deciding factor will be that admitting one form of obviously cruel and unusual punishement is unconstitutional will set precedence that all the other cruel and unusual punishments, like privatized health care, are also unconstitutional. expecting a quick and unanimous overturning
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Jan 13, 2024 18:44
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BillsPhoenix posted:Multnomah County explicitly says they didn't record covid data on homeless in 20 or 21 (nor a lot of data). So it's not really a claim that can be made. I know it personally for a fact and will tell you how I know for one (1) thousand dollars anyway I look forward to SCROTUS overturning Martin v. Boise VROOM VROOM has issued a correction as of 06:06 on Jan 17, 2024 |
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Jan 17, 2024 06:03
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dunno if this belongs here or the cop thread https://apnews.com/article/oregon-drug-decriminalization-law-3f851183d45e9c29609360b09e996d04
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Jan 25, 2024 02:30
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The Voice of Labor posted:dunno if this belongs here or the cop thread it's really funny that they're writing about this as if it's progress, when in fact it's just going back to the old way that wasn't working, but was way more brutal. liberals!!!
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Jan 25, 2024 02:44
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Al! posted:it's really funny that they're writing about this as if it's progress, when in fact it's just going back to the old way that wasn't working, but was way more brutal. liberals!!! Local media and business groups and cops and politicians have been in near hyperbolic states of screaming about this since it passed, it was pretty obvious they were manufacturing consent to push an asap rollback because at the end of the day simple possession is an exceptionally effective law enforcement tool if there’s a ruffian you don’t like the look of and you want a reason to rough up and toss in clink for a few days
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Jan 25, 2024 03:08
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Bonus points if anywhere else even thinks of trying it they go “it failed in Oregon in less than four years!!!”
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Jan 25, 2024 03:09
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the world would be a much better place if people realized that lax drug laws don't cause overdoses, people not wanting to live does
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Jan 25, 2024 04:30
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The Voice of Labor posted:the world would be a much better place if people realized that lax drug laws don't cause overdoses, people not wanting to live does most drug users I know are pretty intent to keep on living, but are coping with this or that. the toxic drug supply kills most of our users here rather than smth intentional
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Jan 25, 2024 19:26
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overdoses are mostly caused by not knowing the dose or actual substance that you're taking leading to taking far far more than you wanted or taking the same large doses you took as an addict after losing your tolerance to the substance, often after a rehab stay, not realizing how big the tolerance was secondarily they're caused by mixing two or more drugs together that combine their effects leading to the same as above smallest cause is self harm first is fixed by legalization, second is fixed by education, third is fixed by destroying capitamism
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Jan 26, 2024 00:02
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The walk back/repeal of measure 110 isn’t about preventing overdoses, it’s premised on an even stupider core assumption that the only reason that people aren’t engaging with the woefully inadequate treatment options is because cops can’t arrest them for simple possession The people who are pushing this legislation for the most part know better, that nobody is compelled to seek treatment over getting arrested and thrown in jail for a couple nights for simple possession, that what we really need to do is alleviate the conditions that drive addiction in the first place Large swaths of the public are that stupid, so that’s who the relentless media push has been directed at, and when the repeal does nothing to change anything it won’t register because the media won’t be beating the drums of the crisis quite so loudly But anyway it doesn’t matter because helping people get clean and seek treatment isn’t what the people pushing this want anyway. What they really want, and what measure 110 took away, was a really good justification for cops to beat up and jail people they don’t like the look of. To clean up the streets by brutalizing people with a dose or two of meth
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Jan 26, 2024 00:13
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OldAlias posted:most drug users I know are pretty intent to keep on living, but are coping with this or that. the toxic drug supply kills most of our users here rather than smth intentional as the adage goes, you don't do this poo poo for life expectancy. if someone's shooting heroin or fentanyl there's something pretty wrong
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Jan 26, 2024 00:20
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