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Edit to move this to the top: really queer Christmas posted:Hey all! To reiterate: We are currently waiting on the Washington Secretary of State to get back to us about filing paperwork. Are we helping people get money? Yes! Fill out the above form. Can you donate? Yes! PM anyone on the committee, here or in Discord, or post in the thread if you want to be a donor. We need more donors to keep up with requests! Old OP is below for posterity ------------- After the drama around the "goonbucks" thread, which i have no interest in litigating, a bunch of people were like "well go set up your own, then." I think this is a great idea. Fortunately, there's already a UK version that already exists and seems great, so all we gotta do is copy their work but like be American about it: AceClown posted:HI there, founding member and current committee member of the UKMT goonfund here. Been asked to post here about how we operate. Tsietisin posted:I'm one of the UKMT committee for coming up on two years now. Just going to post me thoughts I've taken the liberty of making a copy of their constitution, and started changing some wording over to being about the US rather than UK. ("American Goon Solidarity Fund" is a placeholder and I have zero attachment to that name.) To make a rough task list, it would be something like
Looking over that constitution, the only thing that seems like it really needs to be changed is the scope of who this is for, and who the "members" are that have voting power. As someone who (other than this post) posts in exactly one CSPAM thread, my personal opinion is that it should be open to any (active?) goon; denying someone rent money/zipline construction funds because they post in Traditional Games and not CSPAM would be bad. Then, who should have a say democratically in this? Gatekeeping it to people who've donated money seems awful (keeps it to decision-making by rich people, blech), but you shouldn't have to receive money either. Just whoever shows up to the thread I guess? Thoughts?? But before anything else I'd like to be really clear that I'm just Some Guy and no one should trust me or god forbid send me money to manage right now!! I just want to get the ball rolling on planning an organization that can actually work. So! Look over the constitution, it's open to commenting, and if you wanna go ahead and edit stuff then I can give edit access (or you can make your own version I guess I'm not your boss) Also wanted to save this post that had a helpful offer of help, to help us Lib and let die posted:ffs this is still in question? edit: we have a discord speng31b posted:i made a discord if anyone wants to chat about stuff in a way that might be more tactically, uh, efficient i guess edit edit edit: your committee: kingcobweb posted:thus the committee for now until a new committee is elected next year: discord: https://discord.gg/MjszGVHkAF kingcobweb has issued a correction as of 20:38 on Feb 7, 2023 |
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Oct 16, 2022 20:06
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i'll make the website lmao.
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Oct 16, 2022 20:06
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you've got your real name presumably on their OP (google docs). how about u undoxx ur .docs. tho if it becomes real u'd be publicly known anyway. so maybe no big deal if you don't care
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Oct 16, 2022 20:14
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Homeless Friend posted:you've got your real name presumably on their OP (google docs). how about u undoxx ur .docs. tho if it becomes real u'd be publicly known anyway. so maybe no big deal if you don't care it is! I removed the URL but if you truly don't mind I won't edit it in the future
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Oct 16, 2022 20:26
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Kingcobweb is a good egg even though we disagree on stuff a lot, and he has experience, proven in this very subforum, of his commitment to Direct Action. He's as good as any candidate to oversee a new mutual aid fund. The main motivation behind this, for anyone who hasn't followed the drama, is five points: - 20% of the current mutal aid fund is being consumed by Patreon. There exist charity frameworks (such as Charitable) that offer a far, far lower flat fee per-year, meaning more funds for goons in need. - The current mutual aid fund is subject to taxation, meaning that either yet another chunk of the fund is going to the US government (the great satan) instead of goons in need, or the current aid is liable for an enormous sudden bill (especially as Patreon is changing its policy to provide income receipts directly to the government) which could kill the fund. By registering as a 501c3 (which community funds are eligible for) both can be avoided. - By registering as a 501c3, donations can be made tax-deductible; it's practically free dang money! - A mutual aid fund controlled by several goons provides several benefits; multiple eyes on the thread makes goons in need less likely to miss, if someone becomes sick or otherwise incapacitated the fund can continue, and second/third/fourth opinions become available to judge whether or not a request is sketchy. - The current fund lacks transparency; nobody knows how much money is currently in the fund nor how much has been given out. For all we know the fund could be dry, or it could be set through the rest of the year. For whatever reason, which is not worth dredging up here, the current administrator of the fund appears reluctant to engage with these concerns. There's no point in making a judgement there, perhaps they have their reasons. But these are serious enough concerns to merit a new fund. The primary challenges to this are twofold; - Being accepted as a 501c3 - Affording whatever initial fee is necessary for adoption of a charity framework (Charitable is highly regarded, and asks for a flat 250 a year). If anyone has experience with the former, or is in contact with an aid donor (or are one yourself), it would be fantastic to hear from you, be it concerns or advice. Neurolimal has issued a correction as of 20:31 on Oct 16, 2022 |
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Oct 16, 2022 20:26
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Homeless Friend posted:you've got your real name presumably on their OP (google docs). how about u undoxx ur .docs. tho if it becomes real u'd be publicly known anyway. so maybe no big deal if you don't care Yeah, I've basically been doxxing myself since about 2010, I'm okay with it. There's even video of me in the union thread with my name attached.
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Oct 16, 2022 20:27
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kingcobweb posted:Yeah, I've basically been doxxing myself since about 2010, I'm okay with it. There's even video of me in the union thread with my name attached. whoops, sorry I edited it out.
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Oct 16, 2022 20:27
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So if you want any assistance from how we in the UKMT are set up, I'm glad to help. Just something that people should be aware in regards to Doxxing, due to its applying to become a legitimate charity, it will mean that all of the trustees involved in the UKMT fund will have our full names and addresses made publicly viewable to anyone on the internet. Anyone who takes part in the committee should probably be willing to have their name published.
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Oct 16, 2022 20:29
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NeatHeteroDude posted:whoops, sorry I edited it out. np! Appreciate you looking out for things like that.
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Oct 16, 2022 20:29
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Neurolimal posted:Kingcobweb is a good egg even though we disagree on stuff a lot, and he has experience, proven in this very subforum, of his commitment to Direct Action. He's as good as any candidate to oversee a new mutual aid fund. Appreciate it! But want to make really clear that I'm not saying that this makes me The Guy Overseeing The Mutual Aid Fund. Maybe I don't even get elected to the committee, maybe I don't even want to be! But I wanted to get the ball rolling on the planning.
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Oct 16, 2022 20:31
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I have given and continue to give to Plinkey's fund, which was a great "just get it done" diy stopgap in 2020, but really feel it should be more formalized and accountable after more than two years. I'm happy to start giving to this fund when it gets going.
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Oct 16, 2022 20:44
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Ignoring all of the drama, if people really want to do this, they should make sure of what the actual laws are in the US and their states. When I was doing stuff alongside people who were parts of official charities and ngos they said that the hellscape of America made it really hard to actually just give people money. The UK has had a semi functional welfare state, at least compared to the US, so things might be easier for their fund and the exact pattern of their org might not work here.
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Oct 16, 2022 20:46
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Thank you kingcobweb for getting the ball rolling on this. I've been happily contributing to the Goon Fund, this seems even better, if for nothing else avoiding the taxes and 20% patreon fees.
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Oct 16, 2022 20:55
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GOD IS BED posted:Thank you kingcobweb for getting the ball rolling on this. I've been happily contributing to the Goon Fund, this seems even better, if for nothing else avoiding the taxes and 20% patreon fees.
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Oct 16, 2022 21:01
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I'm glad youre doing this kingcobweb and I hope it works out... i wanted to add something to the QCS thread since once of the big sticking points was that the fund was on patreon (the other more important sticking point was the complete lack of transparency, but lets put that aside for now) For example: Neurolimal posted:The main motivation behind this, for anyone who hasn't followed the drama, is five points: I think the reason the fund was on patreon, and the reason it was able to collect such a large grosse income - these two things are connected for the simple reason that Tech Goons who are already pledging to their favorite podcasts or whatever can just click once and add their $5 or whatever to the Goon Patreon fund. That's why it was able to assemble 4k a month or whatever where other charities tend to get less than this... yes the 20% loss to patreon sucks, but the grosse total is still going to be higher than using another platform. Again assuming the Goon running the operation wasnt skimming, which of course we don't know, hence the very real problem with transparency. The point is that the rich tech goons donating to the patreon fund are going to be less inclined to work with or migrate to a site they aren't already familiar with like Charitable. I hope I'm wrong about this! But if you've ever been involved in trying to get your supporters giving you passive income to migrate to a different site, you'll know that you'd be lucky to have even half of them make the transition. I'm not suggesting that we should be using Patreon for this more Legitimate goon charity ITT, far from it, it's just that particular criticism of the operation was bothering me, it felt like people didnt really understand that the Patreon format was Why it was able to accrue so much cash, and that it's not at at all easy to Migrate from Patreon when you are already in their "ecosystem." Does this make sense? I know its off topic, but I'm not trying to derail or anything, I just wanted to provide a little context to the drama, not offer any other apologetics wrt the lack of transparency. None of this is an excuse for doing things the wrong way from the beginning. Best of luck with this operation Kingcobweb, I know your heart is in the right place (any NBA thread poster is inherently trustworthy of course) Mia Wasikowska has issued a correction as of 21:08 on Oct 16, 2022 |
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Oct 16, 2022 21:02
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pandy fackler has issued a correction as of 23:02 on Oct 17, 2022 |
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Oct 16, 2022 21:08
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Mia Wasikowska posted:I'm glad youre doing this kingcobweb and I hope it works out... i wanted to add something to the QCS thread since once of the big sticking points was that the fund was on patreon (the other more important sticking point was the complete lack of transparency, but lets put that aside for now) Yeah, I think Patreon definitely has its upsides as far as raising money, both because of the set-it-and-forget-it nature of the platform, and because it's easy for people who are already giving money to other stuff to click two buttons and donate. The balance that has to be struck is between trying to raise as much money as possible, and donating money as efficiently as possible. Is it better to raise $2000 a month and give $2000 a month, or to raise $10000 a month to give $4000? It's not an easy choice, and different people are going to set the line at different places. My personal preference is to try to keep it as close to 100% of donations going directly to people as is feasible (which the UKMT fund does), but I don't think we need to be dogmatic about it; if there's small costs around, say, creating an organization so that posters don't get their lives turned upside down by audits, or small amounts for lawyers to look over some documents, I think that's a reasonable use of donations. edit: and thanks! I have some great ideas about using my NBA knowledge to multiply the f- ehh, nevermind kingcobweb has issued a correction as of 21:24 on Oct 16, 2022 |
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Oct 16, 2022 21:11
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The UK does have one thing going for it that makes receiving funds a little easier and that is every person is by law entitled to open a bank account which must provide certain features, one of which is the ability to transfer money from your bank account to anyone else's for free. You can set this up as an ongoing payment should you so wish. This is how people pay rent in the UK. So this avoids using Venmo, Paypal or any other payment processor. I also don't know the particular laws in the US but when the fund took in a particular amount of money, we were required, again by law, to officially register as a charity If you accept funds via Paypal, they may shut down your account if you do not register as a charity first.
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Oct 16, 2022 21:15
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Mia Wasikowska posted:I think the reason the fund was on patreon, and the reason it was able to collect such a large grosse income - these two things are connected for the simple reason that Tech Goons who are already pledging to their favorite podcasts or whatever can just click once and add their $5 or whatever to the Goon Patreon fund. That's why it was able to assemble 4k a month or whatever where other charities tend to get less than this... yes the 20% loss to patreon sucks, but the grosse total is still going to be higher than using another platform. Again assuming the Goon running the operation wasnt skimming, which of course we don't know, hence the very real problem with transparency. yeah smarxist had a pm back and forth with me on this and this was mentioned. basically you already have a large dollar amount, you'd fracture the donation base if you switch and you're not even assured you can get them to switch. better to make it easy, with a large number of people. if you really do try and switch you have to constantly whip the donators over and over to make the change to try and prevent them from flyin away Homeless Friend has issued a correction as of 21:30 on Oct 16, 2022 |
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Oct 16, 2022 21:28
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if you're really worried about excess you can just have a PYF charity thread and then split the excess and have a mandatory carry over/backstop. its called engagement. bing bong
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Oct 16, 2022 21:32
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Yeah the concerns about not using patreon are real and they make a lot of sense given how much money is pledged right now
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Oct 16, 2022 21:42
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It would probably cause more headaches on the transparency front, but unless charity regulations make such impossible you could presumably have a charity frontend without the Patreon skimming, alongside a Patreon to catch anyone who prefers the convenience/doesn't find their way to the site. Encourage using the charity frontend in the thread, but if people prefer to manage all their subs through one site thar's fine.
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Oct 16, 2022 22:04
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Hi, I'm not a cspam goon and I have criticized cspam at times, but if a fund with oversight like the UK one comes to pass, I would be happy to set up a monthly donation. I am finally at a point in my life where I can give to others and I would love to see that money given directly to people who can use it, as long as I feel that it isn't being wasted by the fund(I can't control if the requester wastes the money, but that is life). So good luck to everyone involved and I hope setting this up goes well.
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Oct 16, 2022 22:10
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Has anyone offered to start the wiki yet? If not, dibs. Though in all seriousness, I will donate to this when it gets off the ground. Nothing against the other goon fund, but transparency is key in things like this.
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Oct 16, 2022 22:11
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IMO this fund should direct it's resources to the destruction of America. It is the most efficient way to aid people.
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Oct 16, 2022 22:14
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Just want to add, if anyone involved in this this wants to ask us from the UKMT fund any questions or anything we'd be more than happy to help, obviously different countries and all that might limit the advice we can give but we're here to help.
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Oct 16, 2022 22:15
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Zil posted:Has anyone offered to start the wiki yet? If not, dibs.
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Oct 16, 2022 22:49
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Weka posted:IMO this fund should direct it's resources to the destruction of America. It is the most efficient way to aid people. send all the money to the CCP
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Oct 16, 2022 23:01
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I don't think it should be transparent. 
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Oct 16, 2022 23:49
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Animal-Mother posted:I don't think it should be transparent. It's a mutual aid fund not a bathroom floor
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Oct 17, 2022 01:39
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I don’t post in cspam basically ever outside of canpol, but I do donate a small amount to the plinky fund. It being on patreon makes it extremely easy for me to do. I would probably donate more if there was more transparency, and would shift to another setup that allows for easy monthly donations, but I really think that it can’t be understated how important making it easy to donate is if you want anything like the current plinky numbers. I do think it’s important that the disbursements themselves stay as discrete as possible. would greater transparency at an aggregate level be good? yes. would it be worth increased scrutiny at an individual level? probably not. for all the faults of the plinky approach around transparency, I think his general thought process that people shouldn’t feel stigmatized for needing a bit extra to get to the end of the month is important to maintain. Anyway all that to say I hope you’re successful in setting something up.
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Oct 17, 2022 02:48
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i dont think anyone calling for transparency is asking for the names of aid recipients to be posted. even something as minimal as "we took in 1000 in october and distributed 750 to 43 people, spending 150 on overhead (ideally itemized), and that leaves us with 100 to carry into next month" would be a massive improvement. right now it's literally impossible to know how much money is being disbursed which is a major problem.
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Oct 17, 2022 02:57
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Is this one gonna have a committee (like the UKMT one) to decide who gets money and who doesn't? If not, how are those decisions gonna get made? & are they gonna get made transparently or behind closed doors? I can see arguments for each, just wondering what the intention/goal is... these things can be tricky Jordan7hm posted:
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Oct 17, 2022 02:59
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I will be the decider.
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Oct 17, 2022 03:04
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JamesKPolk posted:Is this one gonna have a committee (like the UKMT one) to decide who gets money and who doesn't? If not, how are those decisions gonna get made? & are they gonna get made transparently or behind closed doors? I can see arguments for each, just wondering what the intention/goal is... these things can be tricky it's gotta be closed doors because of how identifiable people's specific needs are. people already put way too much emotional effort into posting here, imagine if money were on the line
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Oct 17, 2022 03:13
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JamesKPolk posted:Is this one gonna have a committee (like the UKMT one) to decide who gets money and who doesn't? If not, how are those decisions gonna get made? & are they gonna get made transparently or behind closed doors? I can see arguments for each, just wondering what the intention/goal is... these things can be tricky in the OP I linked a copy of the constitution for the UKMT one with some modifications to make it about the USA. but if people think a different approach would work better pls post also remember that this is a planning thread so it’s not a “will it happen this way” thing it’s a “how do YOU think we should run it” thing anyone opposed to the UKMT committee of five model?
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Oct 17, 2022 03:17
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a thing i like about the plinky thread is that it's no questions asked, within reason. like asking for over $1k obviously is either a "no" or a "let's talk about this", that sort of thing. posting this to share my thoughts on above. i think turning anyone away at all should be the very, very last resort.
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Oct 17, 2022 06:27
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I'm pretty sure plinkey doesn't often send more than $50ish at a time to people, like groceries/phone bill/med copay level. the whole patreon is only $3k/mo, nobody is getting a month of rent or anything.
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Oct 17, 2022 07:35
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kingcobweb posted:anyone opposed to the UKMT committee of five model? it's a good model, but the nomination and election criteria would have to be refined for expanding the scope beyond a single thread to the subforum (or forums at large)
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Oct 17, 2022 07:43
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For the UK find, we only ask for a reason to check that out is within the purposes of the funds. An example given on the other thread was when we declined funds to someone who requested we send money to another charity. Pretty much everyone else got what they were asking for. There was recently one person I remember where they asked for some funds so that they could buy a Christmas present for their wife as both getting them anything was causing them stress. They got their money. Though I think there is also another aspect as well. The UK find does not take in the amount that the US does, so we may also discuss with the requestor if there are other ways we can help in a non financial way, or see if a smaller amount will suffice at that moment in time.
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Oct 17, 2022 07:54
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