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Fly Ricky posted:This is my issue as well. It’s too “straight” (pun not intended). I want a some of the insane bullshit that usually turns people off every year. That's the absolute worst part of AHS and wasn't the original intent of the show. Murder House and Asylum were both played as straight as this season. They were provocative. The show went straight downhill with stupid rear end Coven and Freak Show. Two terrible seasons full of crappy camp and zero horror. Hotel reigned it in a bit and then it was completely gone in Roanoke and Cult. Apocalypse, 1984, and Double Feature kind of brought it back but not in the huge droves as Coven and Freak Show. This season is great. It feels like it's coming from a real spot as Ryan Murphy was definitely around for this era and this fear that gay men had in the aids epidemic. That's worth 20 times any stupid rear end Jessica Lange camp.
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Nov 1, 2022 17:25
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Doltos posted:That's the absolute worst part of AHS and wasn't the original intent of the show. Murder House and Asylum were both played as straight as this season. They were provocative. The ghost of a school shooter in a gimp suit raped his living girlfriend's (who didn't know he was a ghost) mom who then died giving birth to the antichrist. That is not playing it straight. Nothing in Asylum played it straight; every actor in that season was trying to see who could build the biggest ham sandwich. AHS has always been solidly tasteless, and that maximalist acting and story telling is what makes it great. Doltos posted:This season is great. It feels like it's coming from a real spot as Ryan Murphy was definitely around for this era and this fear that gay men had in the aids epidemic. That's worth 20 times any stupid rear end Jessica Lange camp. If they wanted this season to be real they should have produced it under the American Crime Story umbrella.
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Nov 1, 2022 19:36
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killer crane posted:The ghost of a school shooter in a gimp suit raped his living girlfriend's (who didn't know he was a ghost) mom who then died giving birth to the antichrist. That is not playing it straight. Nothing in Asylum played it straight; every actor in that season was trying to see who could build the biggest ham sandwich. AHS has always been solidly tasteless, and that maximalist acting and story telling is what makes it great. I dunno it wasn't played with the whacky atmosphere as some of the later seasons. They were trying to play the first two seasons straight. Yeah there was leather gimp suit and school shooter ghost but it wasn't whacky. This season is about as bonkers with a mutilating leather daddy mask man. Actors trying to out ham each other in Asylum? With exception of Jessica Lange they were all pretty tame in their roles. I think you got rose tinted glasses.
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Nov 1, 2022 22:22
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ryan murphy is incapable of playing it straight. pun intended
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Nov 1, 2022 22:49
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Doltos posted:That's the absolute worst part of AHS and wasn't the original intent of the show. Murder House and Asylum were both played as straight as this season. They were provocative. Lmao. We’re all entitled to our opinions but… killer crane posted:The ghost of a school shooter in a gimp suit raped his living girlfriend's (who didn't know he was a ghost) mom who then died giving birth to the antichrist. That is not playing it straight. Nothing in Asylum played it straight; every actor in that season was trying to see who could build the biggest ham sandwich. AHS has always been solidly tasteless, and that maximalist acting and story telling is what makes it great. This right here. The show was never even close to serious.
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Nov 2, 2022 00:35
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DogsInSpace! posted:Thank you for the very informative post. I thought everyone in the world had seen Cruising multiple times but I yeah... bubble. Am I the only one who got exited when they played "Walk the Night"? I hope they play "Life at the Outpost" at some point as well as that may not be as danceable but still fun. Loving the music as I always had a fascination with this era of tunes. I'm enjoying Denis O'Hare's Quentin Crisp-with-a-touch-of-Warhol vibes myself. So magnificently scummy and spiteful - just the kind of role O'Hare always does so well. As to music, definitely not the only one. I'm hoping for Its So Easy to make an appearance too. On the whole 'leather discourse' this thread is having, there's another point I haven't remembered to bring up until now: The violence in the leather scenes is principally coming from without, not within. The killers that we definitely know of so far are Weird Supernatural Big Daddy (who may have been in the scene - but is clearly now beyond any human society) and our Mai Tai Guy. Read is in a threshold state of in/out both as a gay man generally and as a leather man specifically, and the one scene we've seen him go hard in wasn't actually in the leather world - a dungeon room at an orgy, but not a leather bar, and from what we've seen, no murder involved. The one definite killing in a leather space (we're not counting the piers here for the simple reason that the piers are not a leather space - they were a general cruising space) is by a guy so alien to it he didn't even bother camouflaging in leather. Sam, meanwhile, keeps his own dungeon, and lures his victims to him - its not a coincidence we see him hunting via an expy of the infamous Christopher Street Phones and selecting people leaving the safety of the bars. In other words: the leather world, as a highly visible subset of the broader gay world, is being positioned as vulnerable to opportunistic violence by those outside it... which is, unfortunately, 100% accurate. (Edit: To elaborate on Sam here... As distasteful as the way the show is doing the real Sam Wagstaff dirty is by being so blatant in its reference to him, it makes sense as a commentary also on the commodification of the gay male body and identity by probably the single biggest force in pushing Mapplethorpe's art to the heights it received, though by diverting all the focus from our Mapplethorpe expy to the Sam expy, it loses its chance to engage with the complicated relationship of Mapplethorpe himself to exploitation - see for instance the controversy around Black Book (itself inspired in part by Cruising's scene with the Jockstrap Cowboy) - and thus loses some of its chance to be a meaningful comment. Show Sam's made his current fortune and prestige off the commodification of gay leather, of taking their bodies and selling them - and as such, feels entitled to victimize leathermen for his own pleasure as well. This season is gay as hell.) (And to further complicate matters: Big Daddy, our Leather Bad Guy, seems to suck as a serial killer. The one act of confirmed lethal violence we've seen him involved in was the arson attack. The rest of the time he seems to move scarily and scare people by being as obvious and blatant as possible. There's a theory floating around he's a hallucination brought on by the disease, but that clashes with the arson attack. This being a Ryan Murphy joint the answer is likely to be dumb as gently caress if we ever get one.) (Edit 2: Getting in now to say the corpse in episode 1 at the piers was not Captain Ross and/or was not killed by Big Daddy) Loomer fucked around with this message at 13:18 on Nov 2, 2022 |
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Nov 2, 2022 01:03
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Episode 5. Okay so Big Daddy is 100% the death knell of a fading world, simultaneously warning those exposed to the risk of the virus while also enacting the deaths of those who have it, right? And Tovey's dude is clearly the Devil, the seduction of material pleasures and over-indulgence or just plain reluctance to leave that which is safe and comfortable in pursuit of one's full self, the trap which causes the collapse of personal growth and enslaves the self to the base impulses, and as a vector of the virus is haunted by Big Daddy, explaining why he's escaped multiple attacks by BD on his life and sexuality.
Loomer fucked around with this message at 08:02 on Nov 3, 2022 |
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Nov 3, 2022 07:59
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Loomer posted:Episode 5. Okay so Big Daddy is 100% the death knell of a fading world, simultaneously warning those exposed to the risk of the virus while also enacting the deaths of those who have it, right? After episode 6 I'm 65% that big daddy is a frankenstein monster built by whitely the serial killer. Like a prototype to what he's building for pride.
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Nov 3, 2022 15:36
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Man, the lurch from episode five to episode six made me feel like I'd taken crazy pills. These were not designed to be released two at a time. Also lol at them very clearly rebooting / rewriting about half the supporting cast this week.
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Nov 3, 2022 16:18
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There's just so much to unpack from episode 5 and 6, they were great. I'm glad they're tying everyone together, so we're having less splitting the narrative between 5 seemingly unrelated threads. I feel like everything is a red herring. These episodes make it feel like we're heading to an absolutely off the rails ending. The scene where billie lourd is pregnant, and we find out she (likely) has HIV is just... This season is nothing but suspense and dread. It's like that Hitchcock example of showing the audience bomb under the table.
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Nov 3, 2022 16:23
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Is there anything in the timing of the narrative that would stop Big Daddy being Patrick while suffering from a psychotic break? That's my current theory.
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Nov 3, 2022 16:49
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The timing of scenes aren't exactly clear most of the time, so it's hard to say. Other people have seen big daddy, and he's definitely not as pale as Patrick. It's quite possible, but they already did that with the cop in Hotel, so it seems lame to do it again.
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Nov 3, 2022 17:02
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Open Source Idiom posted:Yeah many of these characters are doomed, but the episodes didn't have to conflate the fetish characters with violence and depravity; they could easily be some sort of tragic joy instead, but they've gone with Zachary Quinto luring men and raping them with chairs, or Tovey engaging in some lurid personal descent. (Cruising in the leather scene apparently involves instantly getting out the whips without the concept of a safe word even being floated, lmao.) six episodes in, I have to say that I absolutely agree with this. I can only think of one scene in this series to date that has actually presented gay sex as something positive or liberating, and it's the one where the two lead twunks have vanilla sex to consummate their seemingly monogamous relationship. As far as Murphy's own oeuvre goes, I'm reminded of an early scene in his adaptation of The Normal Heart, in which Mark Ruffalo's character stumbles onto two men loving in the bushes on Fire Island, and it's shot and edited like someone discovering a horribly mangled corpse in a horror movie. You can say that this tone is appropriate in light of AIDS, and certainly, the idea that pre-AIDS gay male promiscuity represented a collective failure on the part of gay men to navigate their sexuality responsibly, and thus made them easy prey for the pandemic, is hardly one one that's unique to Ryan Murphy; it was popularized by the likes of Larry Kramer, and in more recent gay media set in this time period, a version of it ends up being the thesis statement of It's A Sin, still a much more sex-positive show overall than AHS:NYC. but it's not a view that was unanimously shared even at the height of the pandemic (prominent dissenters including Michael Warner and Douglas Crimp), and not one I personally care much for at all. anyway, repeating my earlier recommendation for Knife + Heart, if you want to see gay horror that actually recognizes that promiscuous gay sex and the leather scene can be sites of danger and death and sites of pleasure and liberation. Not mutually exclusive!
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Nov 3, 2022 22:56
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killer crane posted:After episode 6 I'm 65% that big daddy is a frankenstein monster built by whitely the serial killer. Like a prototype to what he's building for pride. I don't watch the previews so I'm not sure yet - I guess we'll find out in a week! I'll also write up more about whether or not the series is reactionary when this splitting headache dies down, but I suspect part of it is personal experience starting to show through with my own experience of fighting off sexual assault by a sub colouring my perspective.
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Nov 4, 2022 05:49
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I reckon this season's definitely had the best Mac Quayle score.
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Nov 10, 2022 11:54
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Well, it was inevitable that the season would get stupid, but man it's fun
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Nov 12, 2022 03:58
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I think it's fine they go stupid after taking the first half serious. Don't know how they could have kept up the plot without going off the rails. They also need to stop giving Sandra Bernhard lines.
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Nov 12, 2022 04:38
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Can someone gimme a short update in spoilers to see if it’s stupid enough for me jump back in?
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Nov 12, 2022 05:43
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Fly Ricky posted:Can someone gimme a short update in spoilers to see if it’s stupid enough for me jump back in? literal Frankenstein
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Nov 12, 2022 06:00
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precision posted:literal Frankenstein Unfortunately this was less awesome than it could have been. Like, if we had the thing lurching around on a Macey's parade float, or explode while an anachronistic use of Its Raining Men played over a montage of the falling chunks, that would have ruled. Instead it was just dead. Tbh I found the eighth episode pretty boring (which is a separate issue). Open Source Idiom fucked around with this message at 06:14 on Nov 12, 2022 |
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Nov 12, 2022 06:05
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Seeing this thread reminded me to go back and continue watching the old seasons I never saw. Last time I watched Hotel (loved it) and Roanoke (liked it), so now I'm on to Cult. Evan Peters is so god drat good, and this season also owns. It's like the perfect level of real loving dumb. Lesbian George Zimmerman. God drat.
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Nov 12, 2022 20:54
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Cult is a fun season that maybe goes an episode too long. I guess most AHS seasons do this.
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Nov 13, 2022 02:59
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Caesarian Sectarian posted:Cult is a fun season that maybe goes an episode too long. Roanoke is the only season that didn't drag imo
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Nov 13, 2022 04:37
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Open Source Idiom posted:I reckon this season's definitely had the best Mac Quayle score. Came to post this. I'm really digging the music this season.
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Nov 13, 2022 23:58
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I kind of hate that they're releasing two episodes a week. This season is almost over. On the other hand I think this season is paced weird, and I'm sure I'd complain about that.
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Nov 16, 2022 03:27
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you want a real american horror story nyc? its september 11th 2001. show bad.
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Nov 16, 2022 08:32
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Dongicus posted:you want a real american horror story nyc? its september 11th 2001. show bad. the tragedy of 9/11 the campy off the wall poo poo of AHS? drat!
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Nov 16, 2022 10:55
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Evan Peters as Giuliani when? Would truly be his must deranged role.
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Nov 16, 2022 22:36
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While this season has its issues these last two episodes are going to sit with me for a long time. I feel like this season has been Ryan Murphy's clap back to people who demand AHS be less silly, and more scary. "Are you really scared by psycho serial killers? Are you actually frightened by supernatural forces? Well I'll give you those, but in the backdrop of real life horror. Do you get it?" I really appreciated the endings of the characters they showed, and which characters they chose for the end piece. Sam and Patrick were both deeply broken, and they hurt other people, but they didn't deserve what happened to them. Patrick asking Barbara if she's there to punish him, and she tells him no, he's done that enough to himself. I was just bawling, and then they threw Gino's end at me. Then Adam, speechless at the end, cause there's no monologued ending to the AIDS crisis, it's just senseless, painful, and horrific. It was a beautiful ending. killer crane fucked around with this message at 17:58 on Nov 17, 2022 |
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Nov 17, 2022 16:55
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Probably the best season of them all imo
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Nov 17, 2022 23:12
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I think this season suffered from the horror directing trope going around right now where there's an overt dramatic message with great style and passion put behind it lacking any substantial or interesting plot. The last two episodes were great. It just wasn't horror or a story. Amazing portrayal of the sheer loss of the aids epidemic for sure, but man was it a dud if you were expecting anything other than water treading towards that message. The season effectively ended 4 episodes ago with no resolution to the deer storyline or spectral murderer storyline. Nothing was resolved, characters were just kind of written into death abruptly. What was the point of those storylines?
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Nov 18, 2022 06:29
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Big echoes of Millennium season 2's 'Horses' sequence, honestly. That said: They really did do Sam Wagstaff horrifically dirty here.
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Nov 18, 2022 06:46
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Yeah this season, woof. First half was maybe the best since Roanoke, but the last few episodes are firmly in "no need to ever watch" territory
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Nov 18, 2022 15:52
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I'm surprised they didn't touch on the saddest part of AIDS, that we had medicines to keep it under control but fear and politics and optics let hundreds thousands of people die who didn't need to
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Nov 18, 2022 15:54
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Doltos posted:The last two episodes were great. It just wasn't horror or a story. At least it took place in America. One outta three ain't bad!
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Nov 18, 2022 16:15
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I dunno watching marginalized people die alone and neglected in empty hospitals felt like horror to me.
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Nov 18, 2022 16:39
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It's disingenuous to say it had no story and no horror. Like I don't know what you think a story is if this wasn't one. And you could argue that it lacked horror tropes, but it was horrific, and that seems to be the point.
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Nov 18, 2022 16:59
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American Downer Drama Story? I haven't actually watched any of this for a bunch of IRL reasons, but reading the reactions to it have been pretty interesting.
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Nov 18, 2022 17:09
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killer crane posted:It's disingenuous to say it had no story and no horror. Like I don't know what you think a story is if this wasn't one. And you could argue that it lacked horror tropes, but it was horrific, and that seems to be the point. Horrible doesn't equal horror. If you allow all horrible situations to be horror then you have to start including dramas. Schindler's List isn't a horror. It's a horrible situation. The no story comes from the show taking a complete 180 from two plot lines to go into a dramatic hour long tribute to those that were lost to a horrible situation. That's not to say it was bad, it just wasn't anything other than a tribute.
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Nov 18, 2022 20:40
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Doltos posted:Horrible doesn't equal horror. If you allow all horrible situations to be horror then you have to start including dramas. Schindler's List isn't a horror. It's a horrible situation. There were scenes of horror in Schindler's list. There were scenes of horror in this. Did you just want horror tropes? Did you just want a chainsaw maniac ghost? quote:The no story comes from the show taking a complete 180 from two plot lines to go into a dramatic hour long tribute to those that were lost to a horrible situation. That's not to say it was bad, it just wasn't anything other than a tribute. So you thought the B plots were A plots? The entire season's main story line was the coming of AIDS, everyone getting AIDS, and in the end everyone dying from AIDS. That's the horror this season, that's the story.
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Nov 18, 2022 21:16
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