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What do you think of the new international distribution deal? This poll is closed. |
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| Hate it |
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12 | 16.90% |
| REALLY hate it |
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16 | 22.54% |
| Hello, my name is Bob Chapek |
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43 | 60.56% |
| Total: | 71 votes | ||
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I’d say the worse crime of Chibnall was having the Master say “oh yeah, I found Gallifrey, but I killed everyone, they’re all Cybermen now btw. This all happened off-screen”. Kind of undoes a lot of the Time War arc that spanned both RTD and Moffat’s eras, the closest thing to a proper through-line that the whole revival has had.
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Nov 5, 2022 20:03
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He didn't even loving DO anything with that. He just shat on years of storytelling for shits and giggles.
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Nov 5, 2022 20:08
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Chibnall, I think, is bad. Jodie, however, is very very good.
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Nov 5, 2022 20:36
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egon_beeblebrox posted:Chibnall, I think, is bad.
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Nov 5, 2022 20:42
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I'm not thrilled by her performance at all, but I've been assuming it's down to bad directing and a lack of a solid vision for the character.
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Nov 5, 2022 21:02
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Matinee posted:I’d say the worse crime of Chibnall was having the Master say “oh yeah, I found Gallifrey, but I killed everyone, they’re all Cybermen now btw. This all happened off-screen”. Absolutely this
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Nov 5, 2022 22:10
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Like, that was the one thread that tied together Eccleston, Tennant, Smith and Capaldi (and Hurt!), each actor building on how the character thought about Gallifrey, the Time War, their part in it, their relationship with home, the push and pull of yearning for the Time Lords but knowing how dangerous they had become…. all thrown away for a bit of delivered out-of-nowhere exposition that only put across “hey, the master is like, evil”. Ugh.
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Nov 5, 2022 23:12
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Tectuan and her Time Agents seemed undestroyed after the Master blew up Gallifrey again. And Flux may have destroyed most of the universe without undestroying it, because why would anyone care about that at all? It really is feeling like the novels during the wilderness years, where a Time War pretty much meant a whole bunch of planets kept existing and then not existing again and again. (The Flux candy skeletons felt like they’d be at home in either set of novels, Virgin or BBC.) I’d wager Gallifrey comes back again during this RTD run, assuming he doesn’t simply replace it. You’d really expect the Time Lords would just have a decoy planet by now while hiding out somewhere. I have to say that what really irritated me was after Eleven saved Gallifrey and Tom told him it was still out there, just lost… and then Moffat never did anything with that at all and it was just casually there again during Twelve’s run. “Here’s an interesting story I will set up and then never do anything with” bugs me more than “here’s a really bad idea I had but then let drop without further development.” My preference would be to get “different” Gallifrey. Completely reconceive, justify via the constant changes to its past, and have the “New Gallifrey” be a potential concern. The Time Lords have mostly vacillated between a powerful and often corrupt threat and a bunch of doddering old fools. Either use them to tell some interesting new stories or leave them dead.
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Nov 5, 2022 23:15
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Dabir posted:I'm not thrilled by her performance at all, but I've been assuming it's down to bad directing and a lack of a solid vision for the character. It's very difficult to assess her performance given how totally different (and bad!) her version of the show was. I'm really curious to see her in an anniversary special in, what, I guess ten years' time now? Certainly she's a good actor in other stuff, but if I think back on what little of the Chibnall era I watched, the only person I can recall giving off charisma is Bradley Walsh, maybe, and that's probably just residual energy from being a presenter for so many years. But really, look at Natalie Portman in the prequels versus in anything else she's been in.
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Nov 5, 2022 23:17
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It's kind of funny, but I presume the Timeless Child was thought of first (and I have a weird feeling it was young fan Chibnall's idea to canonise the Morbius Doctors that he got to actually implement, with the added progressive bonus of being able to make non-male and non-white Doctors without affecting the incumbent). So, you can't have the Time Lords around, since the Doctor would go to them for answers and you would be dicking around on Gallifrey. So you blow up Gallifrey to refocus the central conflict. But you're not interested in how or really why it blows up, so you just end up writing it happening off-screen because you need to get to the Doctor and Master facing off, even if it just boils down to the Master rattling off exposition for half the episode.
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Nov 5, 2022 23:27
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Narsham posted:I have to say that what really irritated me was after Eleven saved Gallifrey and Tom told him it was still out there, just lost… and then Moffat never did anything with that at all and it was just casually there again during Twelve’s run. “Here’s an interesting story I will set up and then never do anything with” bugs me more than “here’s a really bad idea I had but then let drop without further development.” But then Chibnall just blew it up off-screen so we'd know The Master was a bad guy again.
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Nov 5, 2022 23:39
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LividLiquid posted:He didn't even loving DO anything with that. He just shat on years of storytelling for shits and giggles. It's just so weird. And betrays an absolutely bizarre lack of appreciation for the arc the Time Lords had up until then. Didn't it feel, you know, good that the Time Lords are back after everything the Doctor went through? Did he feel obliged to use the Time Lords and have no idea what to do with them? If you were going to do an arc about how the Doctor had been abused by Time Lord society since its inception... don't you, you know, want there to be some sort of conflict or catharsis when she confronts her society? No, that idea was introduced in the same story that killed them off. Like, I guess they were assholes we should be glad they're dead? What emotion were they even going for? Also, why are they not called Cyberlords? What the gently caress is a Cybermaster? I don't think Cybermen Time Lords is an inherently bad idea. But it just sits there, confusingly inert, as other things happen around the concept. And that's it.
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Nov 5, 2022 23:43
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Still holding out hope that when this current incarnation of the Master regenerates, he turns into Missy and we discover he was the immediate regeneration after Simm, not Gomez, and had no idea 12 preceded 13 all along 
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Nov 5, 2022 23:57
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Dhawan regenerates into Gomez and says "I know these teeth..."
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Nov 6, 2022 03:13
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I'm fine with The Master still being evil because the possibility exists now for each new incarnation. Each Doctor can now, should they explore this, really, truly give each new Master a chance, and some may be cartoons and some may be evil by default because of circumstances, and some may be more like Missy wound up. But then they had him genocide he and The Doctor's whole race and welp. So, yeah. I hope we learn that this Master came before Missy.
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Nov 6, 2022 03:40
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The Master's done way worse genocides before. e.g. a quarter of the universe melting in Logopolis. This one was against time imperialists who were mean to his best friend, so comparatively it's pretty chill.
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Nov 6, 2022 03:54
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You're not wrong, but viewers care about those people a lot less than they do the Time Lords.
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Nov 6, 2022 03:58
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Payndz posted:The Master's entire deal is "Didn't you die?" "Nnnnnnope!" I love that they literally did that with Dhawan's Master. Rochallor posted:It's very difficult to assess her performance given how totally different (and bad!) her version of the show was. I'm really curious to see her in an anniversary special in, what, I guess ten years' time now? Certainly she's a good actor in other stuff, but if I think back on what little of the Chibnall era I watched, the only person I can recall giving off charisma is Bradley Walsh, maybe, and that's probably just residual energy from being a presenter for so many years. He's a helluva actor. He was great on Law and Order: UK. That's what I know him from. Jerusalem posted:Still holding out hope that when this current incarnation of the Master regenerates, he turns into Missy and we discover he was the immediate regeneration after Simm, not Gomez, and had no idea 12 preceded 13 all along I think this is pretty much dead, as it would imply that Missy knew about Gallifrey being destroyed and all the Timeless Child stuff. Once it was shown the current Master was involved in all that, it kinda killed the idea that he was a pre-Missy incarnation. Like why would Missy just sit on that knowledge when dealing with a previous incarnation of the Doctor?
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Nov 6, 2022 08:01
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Astroman posted:He's a helluva actor. He was great on Law and Order: UK. That's what I know him from. Edit: huh, did not know that Chibnall was an executive producer. That explains how he got to know Bradley Walsh...
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Nov 6, 2022 09:32
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Astroman posted:I love that they literally did that with Dhawan's Master. Her memory had gaps when it came to the Simm incarnation, it's enough of an opening to get handwavey about memory loss in this case too. Or maybe she was sitting on that information until the time was just right to drop it, but by then her thinking had already started to turn around. Whatever, it wouldn't be the most bullshitty thing the show had pulled, particularly after Chibnall. I also didn't like how "the search for Gallifrey" as a hoon was dropped almost immediately, given the excitement Eleven was showing. Seems like the kind of space that Big Finish could explore, if they had a mind to and could get Smith on board.
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Nov 6, 2022 14:23
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I enjoyed the way Gallifrey was used to further the Doctor-Clara relationship, first serving as his excuse to stop traveling with Clara and then Twelve casually overthrowing Rassilon for a chance to bring her back. It was a good use of a story element that honestly isn't often interesting to further the characters.
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Nov 6, 2022 15:00
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LividLiquid posted:Unless I've misunderstood something, the entire season-long Hybrid story with the confession dial culminated in the excellent Heaven Sent and The Doctor finding Gallifrey at the end of that episode, but basically loving off again because they weren't going to let him save Clara, which felt to me like dealing with it without dealing with it. It felt like maybe that was a way to quell the nagging questions of "why isn't The Doctor looking for Gallifrey" while leaving the larger arc of it for an anniversary, big special, new showrunner, whatever. It was out there, but just like it started, The Doctor was a fugitive again and couldn't go back to deal with whatever larger implications of Gallifrey being around again. Only incidentally. If, in Act 1, your main character is set a task to find the Maltese Falcon, and he does nothing in subsequent acts to find it, but is knocked out in Act 5 and wakes up in a room with the Maltese Falcon, did he “find the Falcon”? Nor did it make much sense that the Confession Dial, an object that people can carry around, somehow ended up in the Gallifrey wilderness. If he’d broken through to the TARDIS and then used the dial to travel to Gallifrey, that would have been an improvement, but even then you have a character set a quest who has had the means to fulfill it the whole season and done nothing with it. Eiba posted:I don't think Cybermen Time Lords is an inherently bad idea. But it just sits there, confusingly inert, as other things happen around the concept. And that's it. It could be an opportunity: have them revert to being Time Lords but they declare they prefer these bodies. Have them start speaking in posh or RP English and going to “Amber Alert” and deploying the Glove of Tectuen and other ancient artifacts. Have their leader declare that the Time Lords are the ultimate survivors, that they have no interest in converting “lesser species” but that the Doctor has repeatedly demonstrated supreme survival skills and must therefore be converted. Have them offer technology to other species in exchange for help in catching and converting the Doctor. Force the Doctor to save the Master from Cyberconversion and make them work together to undo what he did to get rid of the Cyberlords.
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Nov 6, 2022 15:57
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Cyberdaleks, lords of fear!
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Nov 6, 2022 16:33
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The Cyberlords glimpsed Ashildr/Me sitting in the ruins of Gallifrey at the end of the universe and accepted the potential of infinitely life-prolonging implants which they had previously disdained. Perversely freed, in at least one respect, from their self-imposed cultural and developmental stasis, they indulge in ever more esoteric and profane meldings of Loom-spun flesh and outrageous chronomachinery. A second Time War is threatened, not from war with or threats to convert any lesser species, but from a project to re-engineer the universe from first principles to be supremely hospitable to the Cyberlords, and only to them. Ten trillion years of absolute power: that's what it takes to truly SSSZZZURVIVE usenet celeb 1992 fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Nov 6, 2022 |
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Nov 6, 2022 17:42
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https://twitter.com/bigfinish/status/1589272141505204224
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Nov 6, 2022 19:08
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Well I was very impressed by how that was put together but in all honesty all they really had to say was,"It's got Six and Davros talking to each other" and I would have been sold.
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Nov 7, 2022 00:44
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Just watched The Timeless Children and I was braced for the episode to be bad and the the twist to not make any sense, but it doesn't even make any sense in the context of Chibnall's plot. If they brainwiped pre-Hartnell Doctor after long service to the  mind probe in which case how was she aware of being part of the Division? I'm sure people have been over this to death over the past few years, but goddamn this was stupid. Also, considering how often they said nothing could get into the TARDIS this season, a shitton of things sure got into the TARDIS this season.
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Nov 7, 2022 01:08
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The first set of these has a reputation for being very very bad. This is a trailer for the second set, but it's apparently not much better.
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Nov 7, 2022 01:12
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Open Source Idiom posted:The first set of these has a reputation for being very very bad. This is a trailer for the second set, but it's apparently not much better. I just found the first set really hard to keep track of. Felt purposely written in a very confusing way. Everything else was fine and Colin was great as he always is but the plot was a bit all over the place.
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Nov 7, 2022 01:18
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Random Stranger posted:I'm sure people have been over this to death over the past few years, but goddamn this was stupid. With Chibnall's run, this thread has mostly been like, "none of this makes sense even at all." "Yup."
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Nov 7, 2022 01:26
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The best fit for Ruth-Doc is between 2 and 3, post Season 6B. Does jobs for Division/the CIA, gets kind wiped and dumped on Earth. Also explains why her TARDIS looks the way it does.
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Nov 7, 2022 01:36
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Confusedslight posted:I just found the first set really hard to keep track of. Felt purposely written in a very confusing way. Everything else was fine and Colin was great as he always is but the plot was a bit all over the place. What did you think of the Not My President bit in the third episode?
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Nov 7, 2022 01:50
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Random Stranger posted:Just watched The Timeless Children and I was braced for the episode to be bad and the the twist to not make any sense, but it doesn't even make any sense in the context of Chibnall's plot. If they brainwiped pre-Hartnell Doctor after long service to the I'm unclear about your confusion. She's on the run after being an operative for the Division. They catch her at some point, mind-wipe and regenerate her. If you want to parse this closely, the place to get upset is that Chibnall is supposedly dealing with the Morbius Doctors, but it is demonstrably true that none of them were working with the Division if the Fugitive Doctor was the last to do so, meaning that the Doctor should remember them. But if he remembers them, he should expect his last regeneration much earlier than he does. If he doesn't remember them, why did the Division do a second mindwipe? Or did they work for the Division after the Fugitive Doctor did? Be honest, the most plausible thing about the whole ridiculous idea is that the Division, upon catching the Fugitive Doctor, regenerate her, have a retirement ceremony for the new Doctor praising them for their work in the Division, and then promptly mind-wipe them when it's complete. That definitely sounds like something a Time Lord operation would get up to. ^^^ Or there's the Season 6B theory.
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Nov 7, 2022 01:52
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Open Source Idiom posted:What did you think of the Not My President bit in the third episode? I honestly don't remember that bit.
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Nov 7, 2022 02:03
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Confusedslight posted:I honestly don't remember that bit. Wish!Romana says it when she's being tortured. It sort of opens the door on a very weird reading of the script that it can't possibly support, not that the script's logic holds together in the first place. e.g. a single man holding an entire planet hostage with a pistol. He's not even pointing the pistol at anything in particular, he's just "I've got a pistol, I'm in charge now" and the fascist government just rolls over for him, lmfao. It's so bad I feel like I've got to be misremembering it, but it's apparently what happens.
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Nov 7, 2022 02:08
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I really really wanted to like it! But at some point i just had to turn my brain off and just go with the flow. It felt like a fever dream with bits here and there. I'm going to listen to it again and try to follow it more closely just because it would be interesting to try and make sense of it all.
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Nov 7, 2022 02:17
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Narsham posted:I'm unclear about your confusion. She's on the run after being an operative for the Division. They catch her at some point, mind-wipe and regenerate her. Except they didn't. We saw a different Doctor serve in the Division, retire from it, and then get mind wiped. So if this guy is post-Ruth, then how'd the Doctor get back in their good graces? And if he's pre-Ruth then why's she on the run from the Division?
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Nov 7, 2022 02:24
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Payndz posted:I loved that L&O:UK had in its cast a former Doctor, a former companion and a future companion (but not the one you would have expected). Also Apollo from BSG. Honestly it was Bamber and Agyeman who got me to watch the series, as I have normally zero interest in police procedurals. Genre actors also hooked me into Hawaii 5-0 (at least til it got goofy in the end) and Longmire. L&O:UK also turned me on to fantastic actors like Bradley Walsh and Ben Daniels. I tend to follow actors I like and will try out other stuff they do. I watched Longmire for Katee Sackhoff, and then read all the books and because of Zahn McClarnon on that show started watching Dark Winds. Now I'm reading Tony Hillerman novels about Tribal Police in the 70s and I never would have imagined I'd be doing that 20 years ago!
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Nov 7, 2022 03:07
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Random Stranger posted:Except they didn't. We saw a different Doctor serve in the Division, retire from it, and then get mind wiped. So if this guy is post-Ruth, then how'd the Doctor get back in their good graces? And if he's pre-Ruth then why's she on the run from the Division? Are you talking about that village policeman? I thought all that was supposed to be the Division or Tecteun messing with the Matrix record to hide the whole Timeless Child thing, so we don't know what actually happened? One thing I thought it was suggesting was that each regeneration of the Doctor is mind-wiped by the Division and reset. I assumed that the Fugitive Doctor's future, according to the presumed intention of the stories, is locked. We know she is ultimately recaptured by the Division as she is intended to be a pre-Hartnell Doctor. That means there could be any number of regenerations between her and, strict-reading of the Brain of Morbius, the Morbius Doctors. If the Doctor is mind-wiped each time and reset, there doesn't have to be a change of heart on the part of the Fugitive Doctor to continue serving the Division. That all being said, I much prefer a Season 6B solution. A much better canon-fix than trying to justify the Morbius Doctors.
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Nov 7, 2022 04:28
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Random Stranger posted:Except they didn't. We saw a different Doctor serve in the Division, retire from it, and then get mind wiped. So if this guy is post-Ruth, then how'd the Doctor get back in their good graces? And if he's pre-Ruth then why's she on the run from the Division? We were specifically told that the Matrix sequences themselves weren’t accurate, in the same way that “Irish cop falls off cliff and regenerates” wasn’t actually what happened. There is no evidence that the Doctor got back in the Division’s good graces. The only specific on-screen evidence relating to this is the Doctor being told in Flux that a specific pocketwatch contains her wiped memories. There isn’t a way for her to find out if that’s true without using it, apparently. Whether a future showrunner ever bothers to pull on that thread is an open question. The whole of Flux is unintelligible in this respect anyway. Did the Flux erase people from time, in which case, Tecteun never existed? Did it get undone completely when the candy skeletons were defeated? Did it get undone, but only partly? Chibnall doesn’t seem to have cared. I presume he set up The Timeless Children thread in a way that makes it easy for a future showrunner concerned with continuity to retcon, but it’s a time-travel show with alternate universes and you’d expect Time Lord history to either be sacrosanct or a complete mess, and the show’s gone hard into the latter.
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Nov 7, 2022 15:54
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