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What do you think of the new international distribution deal?
This poll is closed.
Hate it 12 16.90%
REALLY hate it 16 22.54%
Hello, my name is Bob Chapek 43 60.56%
Total: 71 votes
[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

 
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Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

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OldMemes posted:

Calpadi basically got the arc Colin Baker wanted on TV.

I don't think the Doctor should have any romantic interest in companions. It's a massive power imbalance - a centuries old super scientist alien vs some random human isn't an equal partnership, especially since most companions tend to be young and lack life experience. It shouldn't go any further than platonic, or be one sided, with the Doctor not being interested.

plus as we all know, Time Lords procreate through LOOMS :colbert:

This is where I'm at. Romana's fine, since they're both Time Lords, and River's probably alright since she's basically the same dynamic as the Doctor. But any companion is kind of icky.

However, since that ship has sailed, let Thirteen and Yaz kiss!

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Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

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Dabir posted:

I'm not thrilled by her performance at all, but I've been assuming it's down to bad directing and a lack of a solid vision for the character.

It's very difficult to assess her performance given how totally different (and bad!) her version of the show was. I'm really curious to see her in an anniversary special in, what, I guess ten years' time now? Certainly she's a good actor in other stuff, but if I think back on what little of the Chibnall era I watched, the only person I can recall giving off charisma is Bradley Walsh, maybe, and that's probably just residual energy from being a presenter for so many years.

But really, look at Natalie Portman in the prequels versus in anything else she's been in.

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

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I enjoyed the way Gallifrey was used to further the Doctor-Clara relationship, first serving as his excuse to stop traveling with Clara and then Twelve casually overthrowing Rassilon for a chance to bring her back. It was a good use of a story element that honestly isn't often interesting to further the characters.

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

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Amazed that there was so much more stuff that didn't get put in, I wouldn't have bet the cutting room floor had much celluloid on it.

Vinylshadow posted:

- The Master's lines revealing that he has the resources to force a regeneration is different. Same with the actual line before he does so.

- Deegeneration (the reversal of regeneration) is explained.

Yet again, I wonder why we needed a scene of Thirteen being shot by a big space laser when you could just say, "Oh yeah, degeneration hosed me up real bad and I need to turn into David Tennant now." You could've gotten this episode in under an hour if you'd just cut out all the repeated elements.

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

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Lunatic Sledge posted:

that's ... definitely an explanation

I think it's actually a pretty well-reasoned argument. There's the possibility of it looking like sneering at certain groups, and even though RTD doesn't bring it up I'm sure he's keenly aware that the transphobic media would find a way to play ball with it. Besides, regenerating clothes pretty clearly signals that something has gone wrong this time.

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

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There's only 12 possibilities and yet I have no idea who that person on the right is supposed to be. Top 3 guesses are McCoy, Tennant, and McGann. Hell, young John Hurt, I dunno.

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

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apophenium posted:

What do y'all think about the novelizations and other Who novels?

BooDooBoo posted:

I've not read the New Adventures since the early 2000's, I loved them and still do, but I don't think they'll have aged super-well, but it's what we had in the 90's!

Funny you should mention...

A few days ago I recently finished the last New Adventure I plan to read, having read maybe 25 of the 71 books, rather a few more than I was planning on. Even in my curated list there were some duds, but overall I found it an incredibly rewarding experience. Several of the books rank among the best Doctor Who stories, and the line as a whole is an essential link between the old series and the new.

As a reference, I've put together a list of what I think are the 10 most interesting books in the line (that I read). Cutting the total down to ten was a very painful process and eliminates several books I thought were phenomenal. It also doesn't follow the overarching story of the NAs, skipping over a lot of companion introductions and departures. But these are ten very good books that have something to say. Consider it a taster's guide.

Timewyrm: Exodus: It’s 1950 and the Nazis are in charge of Britain. The Seventh Doctor here is a bit harder, a bit sharper than McCoy portrayed him, but it fits in with the book’s deep dives into Nazi psychology and the overall tone of the books. You couldn’t have put this on TV in 1990, but coming as it does from Terrance Dicks, it does have the feel of something that might have been on TV one day, with the exception of some deep continuity pulls towards the end.
Are There Psychic Powers: No

Love and War: Paul Cornell plucks a throwaway line to create one of Doctor Who’s most terrifying enemies the fungus-based Hoothi, and before sending it to hell, spends a great deal of time building up the planet of Heaven as a real, if bizarre place. As one of the book’s conceits it keeps the Doctor’s inner thoughts opaque until the very end, when his hastily improvised scheme, one of his cruelest, firmly severs his relationship with Ace. Despite this, it never turns into grimdark, and even if the Doctor seems to be lacking in humanity, the supporting characters more than make up for it.
Are There Psychic Powers: Loads!

Transit: Quite a left turn considering this is a direct sequel to Love and War, this is a wacky action blockbuster involving a solar system-wide rapid transit system that became self-aware as it passed through hell, then starts converting its passengers into cybernetic soldiers. Admittedly it’s not the easiest read, and it pretty much wastes Benny in her first appearance as companion, but (I might be saying this a lot) the supporting cast is very well developed. It’s worst toughing your way through.
Are There Psychic Powers: No, but it certainly seems psychic-adjacent

The Left-Handed Hummingbird: The Doctor goes to Mexico City and trips balls. There is more to it; there’s a lot of stuff about the Aztecs and an insightful theme about recurring cycles of violence, from the Aztecs’ human sacrifice to modern-day mass shootings. All of Kate Orman's books seem meticulously researched, and I can only imagine how much harder that was in the infancy of the Internet. Still, she makes Mexico City, both past and present, feel like a real place. Tenochtitlan is a horrifying place with human sacrifices in the tens of thousands... but it's never stereotypical. Also, the Doctor does do LSD.
Are There Psychic Powers: Yes

No Future: After Ace’s return to the TARDIS, her relationship with the Doctor has been rather fraught, including stabbing him in The Left-Handed Hummingbird. This book is all about mending that relationship against the backdrop of the team-up nobody ever asked for: the Vardans (who?) and the Meddling Monk. There are some good bits of the Monk being indignant about how now the Doctor seems to have no problem changing history, so why even come after him?
Are There Psychic Powers: Yes

All-Consuming Fire: This is not an essential story by any means, but it’s one of the lines most creative conceits. All-Consuming Fire is a book within a book written by John Watson as a lost Sherlock Holmes story where Holmes and Watson join the Doctor and Benny in going to India and meeting some of Cthulhu’s best friends. Chock-full of good ideas, even if some of them are left undeveloped, and some excellent chin-wagging between the Doctor and Holmes.
Are There Psychic Powers: No?

Warlock: If not the best New Adventure, the most New Adventure. There’s a new drug called Warlock that causes various psychic (check) phenomenon and the IDEA (that’s International Drug Enforcement Agency) is after it. Also it’s maybe sentient. This is a 90s-rear end angry screed against animal testing and one of its best developed characters is the Doctor’s pet cat.
Human Nature: It’s very funny to imagine that the 10th Doctor episode and this are both canon and that the Doctor got turned into a human professor in 1913 twice. You know what this book is about, it’s very very good, and its crew of bad guys are a lot more interesting than the ones in the episode. The biggest difference is that Seven, especially in the NAs, is a far more distant character than Ten, and the scenes between him and Joan at the end are just heartbreaking.
Are There Psychic Powers: The entire novel is a psychic power

Christmas on a Rational Planet: So this is the first Lawrence Miles book I’ve read. It’s very funny that he dislikes Moffat because this is the most Moffat-rear end book I’ve ever read. It’s got wild-rear end meta ideas, timey-wimey bullshit, and fascinating ideas unfortunately bound up in gender essentialism. The TARDIS turns inside-out and unreality starts leaking into colonial America and then things get crazy. This book starts falling apart well before the end but its ideas are so interesting it’s well worth a read even if things don’t make sense. Also, it contains the most “Are women bourgeois?” scene ever, where Roz, a Black woman from the 30th century, is pretending to be an 18th century fortune-teller:

quote:

‘All right,’ said (Roz)… ‘I’ll tell you what you want to know. You’ll lead a happy, prosperous life, move out to the plains, buy yourself a nice big house and a nice big flitter, or horse-and-cart, or whatever it is you have here, and your children’ll grow up to be lawyers or generals or something. You still won’t achieve anything much, and you’ll die of old age, probably in your sleep…Any other questions?’
Any other questions?
Yes, thought Isaac. Oh, yes. Questions about the shape the world is being twisted into, questions about the mumblings I hear from the town and all the wars they seem to want to start, questions about Church and State and Heaven and Hell and politics and anarchy and everything in between. Questions that I can’t even fit into proper sentences.
And he felt a series of words slide onto his tongue, and prayed that this would be it, that this would be the one question he desperately needed to ask, that just the right letters would fall from his lips and the Negress would understand what he really wanted and give him all the answers.
He opened his mouth.
‘Is it true you eat people in Africa?’ he heard himself say.
There was a silence as big as all outdoors. The woman’s expression was unreadable.
Are There Psychic Powers: I mean, no, but also yes

Damaged Goods:

quote:

The Doctor said briskly, ‘Roz, get me a car. Chris, get me some cocaine.’

This is the one that RTD wrote. It’s not just great, it’s an essential link between both the old and the new series, and between the NAs and the new series. Many of the NAs sideline the Doctor and foreground the companion with an assortment of original characters. I know SOME PEOPLE don’t enjoy this, and in Damaged Goods it’s revealed that one of those people is the Doctor:

quote:

The Doctor despaired. He knew what he had become: a supporting player in the cast, denied the power and knowledge of the lead actors. He thought grimly that he deserved it. He had never paid his supporting casts much attention. He would lavish time on his companions and his contacts and his enemies, but the faceless extras went ignored; the guards and villagers and rebels and passers‐by who had fallen, nameless and unmourned, in the Doctor’s battles. These people never knew why they died, never had the chance to understand that greater issues had taken precedence over their little lives. They knew only life one minute and death the next. Now, they had their revenge. The Doctor had joined their ranks, powerless and ignorant and forgotten while disaster swept all around.

The Doctor shows up to a housing bloc in the 80s and just… flounders. He can’t hack it. If he was aware of the psychologies and personal relationships and life events of the Tyler (!) family he could’ve stopped it. But he isn’t, and he can’t and there is a massive price to pay. This isn’t just an indictment of the Doctor, it’s an argument for how he needs to do things differently. He needs to know the little people. He needs to kiss Billie Piper. Is it any surprise that when the new series starts the first companion is a lower-class girl named Tyler?

For a largely TV writer, RTD takes an extremely wide view, either zooming way out to examine the cosmic ramifications of actions or delving deep into his character’s psyches and nowhere does he do this better than with the book’s “villain,” Mrs Jericho, one of the most tragic ones in Doctor Who: a woman with a sick child. RTD spends a lot of time in her head and there’s so many passages I want to quote, but this one will have to do, as Mrs Jericho ponders over yet another diagnosis hopeless doctors have thrown out to explain her child’s chronic sickness. Christ is his prose good:

quote:

By now, Mrs Jericho associated all these incompetent specialists with one particular gesture: a slow shake of the head as each man and woman, flown in from France and America and Egypt and Iran, confessed themselves to be at a loss. Mrs Jericho could measure out her son’s life in these sad, sympathetic headshakes; she imagined that Steven’s pall‐bearers would carry the same expression.

She envisaged the funeral – the flowers, the hymns, the guests – with great precision. At the back of her wardrobe there was a black Jean Muir dress, shrouded in cellophane, unworn since its purchase, one of the few objects in Mrs Jericho’s bedroom safe from her scissors, safe from mutilation. It was not a conscious decision to leave the dress alone – sometimes her hand would stray towards it, she would look at the jet‐black cotton and consider it for wearing that week, perhaps to the theatre, perhaps to a charity function, only to replace it and move on. And a malignant part of her subconscious would nod, would say, save it, that’s the dress, the perfect dress for Steven’s funeral.

The other preparations for that inevitable day were far more conscious. In the early hours of the morning when the plans would spring unbidden into Mrs Jericho’s mind – long, sleepless nights in which her scissors would be busier than ever – she would go through the expected reactions. She would cry, she would scream her husband awake, she would kneel by the toilet and make herself vomit, and always she would listen to the Voice in her head. But at the same time, if she were honest – if anyone were honest – a funeral‐to‐come promises undoubted magnificence, a ceremony as splendid and seductive as a fine, ancient ruin. Grief and martyrdom and pity are the most wonderful things, and they were coming Mrs Jericho’s way.



She turned her face to Steven’s and stroked his thin, blue veined arm, to avoid the nurse’s attentions; she appreciated the thought but disliked the girl’s intimate tone. Mrs Jericho had seen too many nurses to expend energy on all of them, except to pity them. Nurses had no choice but to spend every day in the company of doctors, and doctors were idiots, doctors were people who took home vast sums of money for prying into their patients’ lives, rooting out every secret, every failure, and doing nothing to help.

There’s another passage that’s far too long to quote that parallels Mrs Jericho and the other female lead, Mrs Tyler slowly deciding to take drastic actions as they do housework. At the end, both of them resolve to go through with their choices, only Mrs Tyler is interrupted by the arrival of her daughter. Mrs Jericho, however, has nobody, and so what happens happens. It’s without a joke one of the best pieces of prose I’ve ever read. I drat near highlighted the entire book.
Are There Psychic Powers: My brother in Christ, there is psychic cocaine

I have some other thoughts, like Ace's ultimate departure or how Roz is by far the worst person the Doctor has ever had as a companion, but I don't want to go whole-hog on a bunch of books more people haven't read.

tl;dr Read Damaged Goods, also read Warlock probably, the others are great, too

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

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Dabir posted:

Is Roz worse than the actual big game hunter from Dinosaurs on a Spaceship?

She is a) a trigger-happy cop, which fair enough sounds a lot worse in 2022 than in 1995, b) extremely racist against aliens, even after learning that the memory of her partner getting shot by an alien was an implanted one, c) occasionally expresses sympathy for the Third Reich, and d) when stranded in the 1790s, attempts to contact the Doctor by shooting a man named Lincoln with the working knowledge that the TARDIS only lands near famous people and consequently this must be Abraham Lincoln's grandfather and the Doctor will stop it from happening (in fairness to Roz, this is hilarious).

In Christmas on a Rational Planet, the same book where she tries to kill Lincoln, a character known as Bad Roz shows up who is supposed to be Roz as she was before she met the Doctor, and... well Lawrence Miles is either a very bad writer or a very good writer, because she's pretty indistinguishable from 'Good' Roz.

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

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apophenium posted:

What a great write-up, Rochallor! Thanks for that! Media tie-in novels are a strange fascination of mine. I've read a lot of Star Trek ones and thought I'd dip my toes into the Who stuff. I had tried to read The Dying Days before but it was... Rough. It's the last one that Virgin had the rights to the Doctor so they're really just building things up for the Bernice Summerfield spinoff. It's the only one to have the 8th doctor and they had no idea how to write him.

And it seems like unlike Star Trek the current Who novels focus on recent doctors only? I guess old doctors new adventures is what Big Finish is for!

There's just something about the weird mix of limitations and freedoms authors have for media tie-ins. The characters should all behave pretty much like they do on the show or movies or whatever. But then you're not constrained by special effects budgets or TV censors. Some authors play it really really safe while others go hog wild. It makes for interesting if uneven reading.

e. Side note it's interesting to see so many posters from the AEW threads in here. Not a crossover I'd expect!

The only tie-in stuff I was familiar with before diving into Doctor Who was the Star Wars EU, which is generally just pleasantly mediocre, there's a canon that usually works but sometimes things break. From what I've heard of the Star Trek stuff there's bunches of competing timelines and canons and whatnot? I suppose Doctor Who is the same way, it's just that it's time travel so there's no such thing as canon.

In regards to content, the NAs settle after maybe a dozen into your standard fake swears (Cruk!) but for a while it's a complete free for all. You got F-bombs dropping left, right, and center, and presumably somebody at the BBC had to come in and say, "Uh, so that show that ended with the nice man who plays the spoons and Sophie Aldred having an adventure with people in animal costumes? Maybe don't have the tie-in book discuss how the sex worker cleans her mouth after giving a BJ, thanks."

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

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Open Source Idiom posted:

Lawrence Miles really hated Roz -- because she's not just a racist cop, but she's also royalty -- and characterised her accordingly. I wouldn't say her appearance there is representational of her as a character all over, though she very much is intentionally a difficult character and she does undergo character development as the series progresses.

Maybe I'm just in agreement with Miles, then, because I thought her portrayal there was pretty typical of her as a whole. She's maybe the most developed character of the line, tied for Benny at least, it's just that she's a well-developed and characterized... bad person.

The_Doctor posted:

Excellent write-ups! Reading the NAs as they came out (or at least while still in publication) was a wild time. My favourite during that era was definitely The Also People, which felt like a relaxing holiday between hardcore psychic battles.

Yeah, The Also People is another unbelievably good book.

Barry the Sprout posted:

The other thing about Christmas on a Rational Planet, is that Lawrence Miles says he squeezed a reference to every single televised story into it. Not too sure i picked them up when i reread it

He certainly squeezed in a reference to every New Adventure, through this line:

quote:

Christopher Cwej sat on a nearby mound of dictionaries, with one of the books open in his hands. He was flipping through words beginning with ‘psy’ to see what kind of ‘cool psychic powers’ Duquesne had.

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

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Payndz posted:

Oh yeah, huh. Forgot there were two not very good far-future stories with cat people.

Keep Gridlock's name out of your mouth!

Honestly, New Earth isn't even that bad either. It helps that Series 2 is a particularly dire series, but the body-switching stuff is fun. But Gridlock is a fantastic episode. Even the hymn works, IMO. I love all the little vignettes we get about the various drivers, and the final scene of the Doctor finally opening up to Martha about their memories of Gallifrey is wonderful.

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

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As someone who's only experience of Flux has been skimming this thread, I have to know: are they really called the sugar skull gang

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

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The_Doctor posted:

No, but they look like this.



Dammit am I gonna have to watch Flux

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

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Jerusalem posted:

Since the entity from Power of the Doctor (which I at first assumed would be one of those "creation" aliens from The Battle of Name I Can't Remember) instinctively took on the form of somebody/something that the viewer would feel inclined to protect

AND ANOTHER THING about that loving episode: what kind of an rear end-backwards decision is it to introduce the McGuffin as a small child, then always show it as a CGI energy monster, instead of the other way around? You show a little girl in chains, cut in a couple frames of a digital squid wriggling around so you know it's a space fucker and it's too stressed to keep its image up or whatever, and then it's just a girl. It's cheaper and the audience cares about it more!

It's such a small thing, but it's almost impressive to get it so wrong.

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

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That man's spray can game is on-point. He's not even using a stencil!

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

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I don't love the shirt but it's also going to look a lot different when filming than on a phone camera video in the backlot. Everything else is super snazzy though.

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

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In terms of story quality Twelve is great, he's pretty handily my favorite Doctor. But there was a pretty steep decline in viewership during the Capaldi era that continued into Whitaker, which is what people are referring to I think.

Ordinarily I would be much more skeptical of the whole Ten nostalgia tour and Disney partnership (and I still am!) but the show loving sucks at this point and Chibnall didn't develop any talent who could conceivably carry on after him, so whatever I guess. It's not like they could make it any worse.

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

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Coward posted:

That's mainly why I'm oddly not as huge a fan of Donna as I feel I should have been. I spent a lot of that series just feeling like Catherine Tate was Catherine Tate-ing about the place and was only an actual character about 20% of the time, which I felt undercut things.

There's a bit in the Ood episode that I really like where Donna is expressing disbelief that people would put up with the enslavement of the Ood and Ten snarls something like, "And who do you think made your clothes?" To which Donna (rightfully) responds, "Is that why you travel around with people, so you can lord it over them?" and Ten sheepishly apologizes. It's a great moment, and I don't think it would work with any of Ten's other companions. Being defined as a sort of louder character than other companions lets her get away with a lot and tell off the Doctor to a degree you don't really see til Clara.

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

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Lord Ludikrous posted:

Do The Dalek’s Master Plan you cowards.

They should just do what they did for Mission to the Unknown and give a college theatre crew a thousand pounds to recreate an episode. Anything you do to these episodes changes how they were originally conceived, let's take that to its logical extreme.

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

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Yannick_B posted:

So if we're scapegoating Disney no matter what, what are we doing with Andor, then? Some corporate entity gave Tony Gilroy 200 millions dollars to make 12 episodes of the poo poo he loves to do, but in a Star Wars setting, and it's some of the best tv in years. Is that good Disney or bad Disney? Or is it Lucasfilm? Which is it if we're fearmongering every single thing that has to do with Disney?

Andor is great, primarily because you had a creator with a strong vision of what they wanted to do. Incidentally, the only reason Gilroy got involved with the show is that Disney asked him to take a look at their original concept and he savaged it so bad that they retooled the entire series and brought him on board. I trust RTD to do that sort of thing, mostly becausehe'sbeen doing this for over 20 years. But we've already seen what happens when you give it to somebody who is only interested in filling time and will just nod along to whatever slop the investors want.

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

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OldMemes posted:

In Lawrence Miles and Lance Parkin's interpretation of Doctor Who lore, before the Time Lords established the web of time, they were in conflict with the Original Mammoths, who were a race of interdimensional mammoths who had great cities carved into their tusks. They survived through human's race memory of Earth Mammoths, and one was reborn and captured in the court of George III, managed to anchor itself in the version of reality where the Eighth Doctor cut out his second heart and then the Mammoth became an aspect of The Enemy, the abstract concept that the Time Lords fought in the War in Heaven timeline.

It's....a lot.

After taking a break from Doctor Who stuff to read REAL LITERATURE* I've curated a small selection of 8th Doctor Adventures to read, and hoo boy Alien Bodies has some wild-rear end poo poo in it. Time Lords may come out of looms, but TARDISes? TARDISes gently caress. TARDISes gently caress and make baby TARDISes because they're trying to create genetically diverse TARDISes so that they can't all be wiped out with a single virus. Also, one of the TARDISes is a woman and a Time Lord travels around inside of her, and yes, I've checked the author page three times and Steven Moffat didn't write it.

*Hunchback of Notre-Dame, solid 8/10; Lolita, utter work of genius, shame everybody missed the point, including me when I was 17, 10/10

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

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I mean, this is naturally what's going to happen when we're a year out from the next episode, and 2 (?) years out from an actual new Doctor. Baseless speculation is all that's available to us.

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

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AndyElusive posted:

Going to buy Kerblam off Amazon.

They just released an exclusive preview of the book!

https://twitter.com/dril/status/473265809079693312

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

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It's not a lot of effort, but probably a hell of a lot more than it would be today. Retyping all those credits would be a pain in the rear end. What a waste of time.

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

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I'm about six books into the Eighth Doctor Adventures, thinking of reading maybe four more or so. I really dug the first one I picked up, Vampire Science, despite really hating the "Time Lords and vampires are ancient enemies" thing, and it took me several more books to figure out why. The characterization of Eight is all over the place, which isn't really surprising when the authors had maybe 45 minutes of McGann footage to base their version on. Lawrence Miles basically writes a generic Doctor, Kate Orman and Jonathan Blum go for sort of a patient but firm Doctor whose lines you can easily hear McGann delivering... except for in Vampire Science, where they have somehow written the best Thirteen story several years too early. A couple excerpts that I think you can easily imagine Jodie delivering:

quote:

'See that one?' he asked, tapping his finger on the glass. 'The red star, just to the right of the building across the street.'

Carolyn looked, hoping she had the right one.

'On the fourth planet out from that star, there's a race of intelligent sea serpents who worship whales as gods. The whales on that planet aren't intelligent, of course, and the serpents know that, but they believe the whales are so enlightened that they don't need to be intelligent. Around that one' – he pointed again – 'there's a frozen world where an old enemy once stranded me. I had to build a fire to keep warm till I could be rescued, and I ended up throwing one of my favourite ties on the fire to keep it going. And around that sun' – he pointed at another star, directly overhead – 'there's an ice-cream shop where they kept me waiting an hour and a half for a chocolate milk shake. Can you believe it!'

Carolyn burst out laughing. 'No way.'

His eyes were utterly earnest. 'I mean it. The shop was mobbed. I tried to complain, but the man behind the counter was just swamped. "I've only got six hands!" he said...'

It suddenly occurred to her that she believed every word of it. Little green men had always seemed ludicrous, but somehow little green men serving milk shakes had a kind of a ring of truth to it.

Of course it made no sense, but the possibilities of how interesting nonsense could be were unfolding before her eyes.

She looked out of the window. 'This is what the sky had looked like when I was a kid,' she said.

'So,' asked the Doctor, 'what do you do?'

They'd been waiting for an hour. The Doctor was sitting on the floor, back against the wall, while she dozed in the beanbag. She'd heard him go out, speaking with Sam, low voices at the edge of her consciousness. When he'd got back, she was wide awake.

'Not much,' she said. 'Nothing that compares to fighting Daleks and stuff like that.'

'Oh, tell me anyway,' he said. 'I know all my stories – I'd rather hear yours.'

quote:

'You're not just going to walk away from this one,' the Doctor said levelly.

'No,' Eva gasped.

'Whether you cooperate or not, either way it's over. No more killings. I can't let you kill anyone else.'

Eva was staring up at the Doctor, an animal look of hatred and fear on her face.

'At least I'm giving you a choice,' he said. Carolyn realised that his hands were shaking. 'That's more than you've given anyone.' He looked – he looked afraid, as though he was the one on the business end of the stake. 'Please. Talk to me.'

Eva's left hand shot up. Her fingers locked around the Doctor's hands, around the end of the stake.

Carolyn ran towards the Doctor, tried to pull Eva's hand away. He was straining against her. She could feel each bone in Eva's hand, the fingers tight, her strength overpowering them both.

'Sam,' cried the Doctor. 'Hide your eyes.'

The stake pushed down under her hand.

...

'It had to happen eventually,' said Sam helplessly.

'It did not have to happen,' said the Doctor. His hands were grasping the wheel as tightly as they'd grasped the stake.

'There's got to be another way. Must be another way.' He went on mumbling under his breath, his brain churning onward, refusing to let go of the problem even for a moment.

There's the sense of glee at being on a grand adventure, a stronger commitment to non-violence without the TV version of being a complete wimp about it. It's definitely vying with the covid safety video for me of being Jodie's second-best story.

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

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It doesn't really bother me that whatever doesn't fit into canon, I mean, it's Doctor Who. It happened one way and then it happened a different way during one of the half-dozen times the entire universe got rebooted.

My impression of the EDA so far is that there's a bunch of great individual stories and absolutely no cohesiveness between them, which does feel rather appropriate for the Eighth Doctor. Lawrence Miles' books so far have been chock full of amazing concepts... but they're only in his books. Every writer's Eight feels like a different character (and even when you have the Big Finish stuff with McGann playing a consistent Eight, it's an Eight that's inconsistent with every previous version of the character). Lord, what a mess, I love it.

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

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Y'all are saying "This looks like poo poo!" and "What is this, a 90s FMV game?" like it's a bad thing!

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

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The_Doctor posted:

I’d like to imagine the Tom Baker Maker is better now, it wasn’t amazing back in 2006.

I'm highly opposed to building voicebots of actors on ideological grounds, but for meme purposes, even the free utilities you can get on the internet sound pretty uncanny. They struggle with different emotions but sound pretty close even with small samples, and God knows how many hours of recordings anybody working at Big Finish has produced.

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

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Thanks for posting that, it's an interesting look into a very different (and I agree, bad) script. The whole Clara fallout from Kill the Moon is such an essential component of this story that it's really jarring reading a version where that tension is replaced by a lot of bad exposition along the lines of 'yes it's a mummy, but it's like, a sci-fi mummy.'

Bonus, out of context line where the general tries to confirm the Doctor's personal timeline:

quote:

GENERAL QUELL
Do you follow the war Doctor?

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

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I don't think it's the quality of the story so much as devoting a huge chunk of that story to introducing a new design for a monster that's... pretty much unchanged since the 60s. The very first Dalek design is very similar to how they look in 1989 to how they look in 2005 (the two big differences there being the thingies on the dome and putting a light in the eyestalk, both of which I think are pretty effective). They nailed it the first go around. Compare to the Cybermen, who have been reimagined like a dozen times with little fanfare, and with the exception of the OG Mondasian Cybermen which are basically their own thing at this point, I think each go around they do get a little better.

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

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alexandriao posted:

disagree but only because the mondasian cybermen voices are amazing and I wish they'd kept that weird inflection style with all of them. just a little kick that keeps them unique from "another killer robot species"

Oh I'm pro Modasian Cybermen for sure if that was unclear. Not only the voices, but the way their mouth open when they start talking and close when they finish, it's so perfectly almost human. The closer to human design is better, but as far as big hulking robot Cyberman goes, I think they've gradually gotten better throughout the years.

The perfect Cyberman design is, of course, the Borg from Star Trek and it bugs me that Star Trek got there first.

Boxturret posted:

I think it was Asylum of the Daleks they had a bunch of older ones including the heavy weapons one in the background then after that the older ones just started popping up here and there in group shots.

IIRC when the heavy weapons Dalek first showed up in Asylum it was the original, and sole, prop from Remembrance, so they couldn't do anything much with it since it might fall apart on account of being 25 years old and made out of probably spray paint and hope. I imagine that's why a lot of them were just aimlessly drifting in the back of the shots. Pretty sure they built new classic Daleks for Series 9.

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

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BooDooBoo posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAeqxp0SAbM

Sorta related but good:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsfuxlNCEQo

"Increasingly shambolic corpses that won't die getting more and more robot parts as what made them human is reduced to an unheard scream" is a way better concept than the "Daleks but with legs" they became.

Thanks, that was really interesting. I always forget how much prop designers were able to get away with knowing they were shooting on video that would hide a lot of the more obvious imperfections.

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

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Open Source Idiom posted:

Just finishing up this set: https://www.bigfinish.com/releases/v/torchwood-among-us-part-1-2232

And it's some of the best stuff BF (or Who, let's be honest) has made in ages. Lots of stories about technoparanoia, mob violence, and people laundering lovely prejudices via algorithms. Also has an amazingly wild gag involving an overly quirky app for self-driving cars that "deploys cars in response to user-determined signals". That's the set up. The punchline comes late in the story where a villain is trying to bump someone off by getting them paralytic and throwing them in front of a car. He of course decides to the cool new self-driving app system to do it, which leads to him breaking cover by very loudly and conspicuously screaming "sieg heil" in the middle of a busy London street.

I've said this before, but the Torchwood stuff is loving amazing. It's just not stuck in the past like so much of Doctor Who is these days, it feels like it's actually got things to say about the world as it is, and is often has decently smart takes on those issues too. Plus the stories often get decently emotional, have strong and interesting character arcs, make bold choices... I love it so so much.

Is there a primer on when this era? of Torchwood gets started and what's included? I've been put off of BF for a long time but I have heard a lot of good stuff about the recent Torchwood releases

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

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Jerusalem posted:

Ben & Polly: Dodo just.... left.
The Doctor: Well the time for mourning has passed, we must move forward with our lives.

Of course they weren't long for the show themselves, once the Second Doctor met Jamie they were doomed.

The best departure is definitely Kamelion because Five goes out of his way in an already-overstuffed episode to murder this awful robot prop before it can kill again.

It is wild that companions in the black and white era were largely just written as completely disposable. You've got companions that gently caress off after that, too, but there's at least some semblance of a reason or a build to it that consists of "oh, I'm done." I mean, I've seen fifties and sixties TV, it's not like the idea of character arcs hadn't been invented yet.

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

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SecretOfSteel posted:

*me thinking, oh, how tall is she*...

of course there's a webpage dedicated to Dr Who companions and their heights. Random dude, why do you have to be in every photo. Which one of you is this? :stare:



What are you talking about, there's only one person in each of those photos

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

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I don't remember the episode, but he gives it to I wanna say Amy and says something like, "Just point it at something and think about what you want it to do."

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

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Honestly, I'd happily trade the entire era for, let's say, a copy of episode 3 of The Daleks Master Plan. And I'm not even sure if that's a missing episode or not, that's how little I care. There were 2 or 3 good episodes I guess, but the entire format of the show felt off. Junk the masters, keep the audio recordings in the grand Doctor Who tradition, and let wasteland scavengers 100 years from now huddle around a scratched first-generation iPod, listening to the audio from that episode with Tesla accompanied by a slideshow of various press photos, and go, "Well, it's hard to judge the episode based on the audio alone, maybe the visuals were really engaging?"

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

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lmao Disney+ may not even exist by the time it's supposed to be showing new Doctor Who episodes.

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

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Khanstant posted:

"the annoying mummy 2 parter."

WHAT

Fair Bear Maiden posted:

Gatiss is an annoying dude, but I feel like his Who scripts are more or less all kind of similar qualitatively, except for the dumb found footage one which is genuinely one of the worst episodes of modern Who.

I think the found footage one is actually pretty good, and where it fails to be good, it at least manages interesting, which means it ranks above the entire Chibnall era. Really, Gatiss' arc is one of pretty constant improvement, to the point where his stories for 11 and 12 are actually pretty good. The Crimson Horror and the Robin Hood episode both lean into his strengths in a really nice way.

Speaking of which, he (and fellow sort of DW alum Indira Varma) show up together for about 45 seconds in the new Mission Impossible.

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Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

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Fair Bear Maiden posted:

I wanna say this is probably about the Monks and not the Mummy on the Orient Express given that's not a 2-parter, but who knows.

It is amusing that there's at least three episodes this can apply to, but they mentioned watching Series 1 so it's likely the gas mask children one so I repeat: WHAT

The_Doctor posted:

Eh, the bad read of Unquiet Dead is don’t trust people claiming asylum, they’re actually up to no good.

As much of a johnny-come-lately Lawrence Miles fan as I am, I'm not going to hold what is an entirely valid reading of an episode against a writer who clearly didn't intend the message. I think it's more that Gatiss was writing from a position of (relative) privilege and didn't bother to think things through.

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