[Ukraine] Kremlin 'foreign influence' legislation undermines the US-Georgia relations

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Ukraine] Kremlin 'foreign influence' legislation undermines the US-Georgia relations

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Ardennes: May 12, 2002

Granted, what is a "realist" is suppose to say at this point? The US not only hosed up but has been loving up in a way that is going to greatly limit its future options.

If anything you probably can't be any sort of a realist since a realist would have to acknowledge how US actually critically f'ed itself.

It gets worse when you go from the Middle East to Asia, to the structure of the American economy, the state of the MIC and the DOD etc. At a certain point you are just going to sound like a "well meaning tankie."

Ardennes has issued a correction as of 16:06 on Apr 19, 2024

# ? Apr 19, 2024 16:02

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# ? May 3, 2024 04:07

stephenthinkpad: Jan 2, 2020

VoicesCanBe posted:

Russia not only surviving the "mother of all sanctions" regime but outright shrugging it off is the true mark of the end of US unipolarity.

In 30 years, Russia history text book will be teaching the "defending the Rubles with 205 interest rate" as the new Stalingrad of the World War III.

Truga posted:

on one hand, without the war russia could easily fare much better than with the war, but on the other hand i bet putin would immediately try rapprochement with the west in the worst neoliberal way possible, which is honestly just sad

I prefer to think Putin was ready to decouple in Jan 2022 but he needed a conflict bigger than the 2014 war to drag the liberal side of Russia elites to go along with him.

stephenthinkpad has issued a correction as of 16:33 on Apr 19, 2024

# ? Apr 19, 2024 16:29

Nix Panicus: Feb 25, 2007

Zodium posted:

you can and should get all the way into materialism. belief is material and is produced and reproduced by societies through control of the niche, the set of opportunities for action that are supported by the animal-environment system. we may not have a full understanding of how to scientifically describe and engineer that yet, but the capability for ruling classes to groom the niche to those affordances which support their ideology is ancient, and the western bourgeoisie have hacked what is at least a proto-scientific solution together in cybernetic capitalism. the secret speech was akin to compromising a critical load bearing element, not all that different from loving up building a bridge before we had a full understanding of bridge building.

lmao just use the tools and methodologies that already exist and have thousands of years of backing data rather than trying to invent mythology except materialist from scratch

# ? Apr 19, 2024 16:46

Zodium: Jun 19, 2004

hmm .. no

# ? Apr 19, 2024 16:52

DJJIB-DJDCT: Feb 1, 2024

Nix Panicus posted:

lmao just use the tools and methodologies that already exist and have thousands of years of backing data rather than trying to invent mythology except materialist from scratch

# ? Apr 19, 2024 16:59

Megamissen: Jul 19, 2022; any post can be a kannapost
if you want it to be

Truga posted:

yeah mearsheimer has been yelling at everyone for like 10 years now that going after russia is stupid not because he thinks russia is good but because he's a big ol' anti-communist and thinks russia would be a great ally/asset in a (cold) war against china

america creating a russia-iran-china alliance because they cant stop going after all of them at once is such baffling incompetence

# ? Apr 19, 2024 17:01

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019

Sanlav posted:

The CFR report is so ideological at this point. They did an accounting of the war in february that amounts to fantasy. They list all these appropriations of arms without counts or delivery involved. It's a sliver of a sliver of the overal package, only a portion got to Ukraine, all of it is nearly spent, and whats on the way in no way meets their needs. Yet they conclude we're doing the best, bang up job ever in supporting a war effort and a teensy bit more will slay Ruussia.

Mearshimer had a debate with Dobriansky last week that was just abysmal. Every talking point she made was this wishful thinking. She keeps countering every material weakness on the ground with "but we could send more and close that gap" ignoring the material realities abound.

There is no time, there is no productive capactiy, wishing and hoping time is long gone. If they need 5 million 155mm shells a year to fight Russia, either we deliver 5 million shells now or face the music. There's no tomorrow, but our official policy planning has no urgency. They are looking at it as a long term stalemate still.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdtCyiKHtqE

great stuff

quote:

This is our generation's moment to make a decisive call, Ukraine is our generation's investment, in their reconstruction and in their defense. I promise you, I promise you, just as it did in the 20th century, this rebounds on America's prosperity and our security. This is an investment work making. John, Ukrainians are choosing to die for their freedom. That is their choice. We have to give them the means to fight for their freedom, because as the Polish resistance said in WW2, "for our freedom and yours..." We need to fund Ukraine so they can win this war, strengthening Americas prosperity and security. Thank you.

# ? Apr 19, 2024 17:06

DJJIB-DJDCT: Feb 1, 2024

Megamissen posted:

america creating a russia-iran-china alliance because they cant stop going after all of them at once is such baffling incompetence

It's almost incomprehensible. If the Russians had some actual ideological underpinning, so weren't liberals who still want to be let into the west, let's be real, and weren't capitalists, Venezuela and Cuba would be better integrated into this as well, probably some countries in Africa too.

# ? Apr 19, 2024 17:06

Megamissen: Jul 19, 2022; any post can be a kannapost
if you want it to be

while the dominating position america got in the 90s was not as stable as it might have seemed, the issues plagueing the west now were already present but less developed (dialectics and all that),
it would be hard to squander it harder than america did

real late roman vibes

# ? Apr 19, 2024 17:10

Hedenius: Aug 23, 2007

DJJIB-DJDCT posted:

https://x.com/kyleben3020/status/1781047237247639982

One weird trick to remaining an "elite" unit. Conscripts hate it!

# ? Apr 19, 2024 17:13

Sanlav: Feb 10, 2020; We'll Meet Again

The contrast between John's closing argument at 58 mins, when he looks like he's about to drop the mic and strangle both of them right there, versus the vacant death cult screed was :chef:

# ? Apr 19, 2024 17:15

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019

wonder if militaryland ever got invaded

# ? Apr 19, 2024 17:18

Nix Panicus: Feb 25, 2007

mawarannahr posted:

great stuff

The problem with the 'Ukrainians are choosing to die for their freedom. That is their choice.' bit is that its looking increasingly untrue as they struggle to conscript soldiers, and more of those soldiers have to be taken screaming to the front lines

If Ukrainians had turned out in their millions to defend their nation, like they did in WW2, this war would have long since been over

# ? Apr 19, 2024 17:21

VoicesCanBe: Jul 1, 2023; "Cóż, wygląda na to, że zostaliśmy łaskawie oszczędzeni trudu decydowania o własnym losie. Jakże uprzejme z ich strony, że przearanżowali Europę bez kłopotu naszego zdania!"

Megamissen posted:

america creating a russia-iran-china alliance because they cant stop going after all of them at once is such baffling incompetence

They kind of can't help it anymore, the US-led capitalist order is at a stage where all other alternatives must be stamped out, even if they aren't socialist. Russia, China, and Iran all must be brought to heel.

# ? Apr 19, 2024 17:25

VoicesCanBe: Jul 1, 2023; "Cóż, wygląda na to, że zostaliśmy łaskawie oszczędzeni trudu decydowania o własnym losie. Jakże uprzejme z ich strony, że przearanżowali Europę bez kłopotu naszego zdania!"

Nix Panicus posted:

The problem with the 'Ukrainians are choosing to die for their freedom. That is their choice.' bit is that its looking increasingly untrue as they struggle to conscript soldiers, and more of those soldiers have to be taken screaming to the front lines

If Ukrainians had turned out in their millions to defend their nation, like they did in WW2, this war would have long since been over

Yeah it's loving nonsense at this point to say that Ukrainians are "choosing" to fight; it is largely conscripts, many of whom are being forced into service at gunpoint.

# ? Apr 19, 2024 17:26

DJJIB-DJDCT: Feb 1, 2024

Megamissen posted:

real late roman vibes

This is an insult to the Late Romans, many of whom were doing useful stuff all the way through the end, and then in the successor kingdoms.

There's never been a truly lumpen bourgeois like this before.

# ? Apr 19, 2024 17:27

DJJIB-DJDCT: Feb 1, 2024

Sanlav posted:

The CFR report is so ideological at this point. They did an accounting of the war in february that amounts to fantasy. They list all these appropriations of arms without counts or delivery involved. It's a sliver of a sliver of the overal package, only a portion got to Ukraine, all of it is nearly spent, and whats on the way in no way meets their needs. Yet they conclude we're doing the best, bang up job ever in supporting a war effort and a teensy bit more will slay Ruussia.

Mearshimer had a debate with Dobriansky last week that was just abysmal. Every talking point she made was this wishful thinking. She keeps countering every material weakness on the ground with "but we could send more and close that gap" ignoring the material realities abound.

There is no time, there is no productive capactiy, wishing and hoping time is long gone. If they need 5 million 155mm shells a year to fight Russia, either we deliver 5 million shells now or face the music. There's no tomorrow, but our official policy planning has no urgency. They are looking at it as a long term stalemate still.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdtCyiKHtqE

There's no debating these people, they have been rewarded for their beliefs their entire education and careers. Remember most of them were already at the working or executive level when the wheels start coming off, after going to school or working in the frictionless 90's and 2000's.

# ? Apr 19, 2024 17:30

crepeface: Nov 5, 2004; r*p*f*c*