[Ukraine] Kremlin 'foreign influence' legislation undermines the US-Georgia relations

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Ukraine] Kremlin 'foreign influence' legislation undermines the US-Georgia relations

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Cerebral Bore posted:

to be fair, tank rushing berlin has been an unambiguously good thing every time it's been done

Remember that Norm Macdonald joke about how after doing two world wars Germany shouldn�t have been allowed to be a country anymore? It blew my mind to find out the Allies secretly agreed that Germany didn�t get to be a country anymore, but the US and UK went back on it.

# ? Apr 27, 2024 19:35

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# ? May 9, 2024 23:17

Nix Panicus: Feb 25, 2007

sum posted:

A force density of 100-200 men per km would only be 40k-80k men on the line across the entire eastern front, against 500k-600k Russian troops. I don't think that's possible, unless they're keeping the vast majority of their forces away from zero. I guess it's possible that Russia has developed tactics to advance on a drone-dominated battlefield, biting off the isolated forward outposts that make up the front edge of the defense and blocking them off from the main body of the defense with FPVs and artillery.

Ive been reliably informed that the Ukrainian army is uniformly distributed throughout the country, meaning each meter is exactly as difficult to take as every other meter

I would think you'd want to concentrate your forces along the front lines, but I'm not a general

# ? Apr 27, 2024 19:45

DJJIB-DJDCT: Feb 1, 2024

Nix Panicus posted:

Ive been reliably informed that the Ukrainian army is uniformly distributed throughout the country, meaning each meter is exactly as difficult to take as every other meter

I would think you'd want to concentrate your forces along the front lines, but I'm not a general

If it�s any consolation, the same is true for the Western Front during the Great War, where a fraction of the men on either side were actually in frontline trenches at any given time, and from the Swiss border to the Atlantic ocean there were vast distances where there was practically no one at all.

Everybody imagines the tiny triangle in Flanders that had the highest density of forces engaged as the whole thing.

# ? Apr 27, 2024 20:28

Nix Panicus: Feb 25, 2007

Was looking up the timeline on the coup earlier today and randomly ran across this absolute banger

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natalie_Jaresko

quote:

Jaresko lived in Ukraine from 1992 to 2000, and returned in 2004.[12][13] She received Ukrainian citizenship on 2 December 2014, the day of her appointment as Minister of Finance of Ukraine.

Starting in 1989, Jaresko held several economics-related positions at the US Department of State in Washington, D.C., and eventually coordinated activities of the State Department, the Departments of Commerce, Treasury, the United States Trade Representative, and Overseas Private Investment Corporation (OPIC) in their economic relations with the Soviet Union and its successors.[18] As part of her work she interacted with the International Monetary Fund, World Bank, and the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development. Later, from 1992 to 1995, she worked in the Economic Section of the U.S. Embassy in Ukraine, responsible for strengthening economic cooperation between the two countries.[12] She has been a governor of the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development.[18] In 2003 she was awarded the Ukrainian Order of Princess Olga for her contributions to the Ukrainian economy.[19][20]

Jaresko also held several key positions in the private business sector. In February 2001 she became president and chief executive officer of Western NIS Enterprise Fund (WNISEF), which had been disbursing United States Agency for International Development (USAID) funds to small and medium-sized businesses in Ukraine and Moldova since 1995.[21][22]

In 2006, she co-founded Horizon Capital, where she served as a managing partner and chief executive officer, which took over the management of WNISEF.[21] In those positions she established and strengthened economic ties with Ukraine and Moldova.[19][20] Horizon Capital managed two funds, the Emerging Europe Growth Fund aimed at institutional and individual investors in the west, and the USAID funded Western NIS Enterprise Fund which preceded Horizon Capital.[22] When Jaresko left Horizon Capital in December 2014, it had about $600 million of Ukrainian investments under management.[7]

Between 2005 and 2010 Jaresko was a member of President Viktor Yushchenko's Foreign Investors Advisory Council and the advisory board of the Ukrainian Center for Promotion of Foreign Investment under the auspices of the Cabinet of Ministers of Ukraine.[19][20]

Nine months after the 2014 Ukrainian revolution, Jaresko was approached by headhunters for the new Ukrainian government, and within days offered the post of minister of finance.[24]

Early in Jaresko's term she made an outline agreement for a $40 billion four-year loan from the International Monetary Fund and Western countries.[21][25]

In August 2015 Jaresko was instrumental to restructuring Ukraine's debts, including a partial write-off with a 20% haircut on Ukraine's $18 billion privately held government debt.[26]

On 24 March 2016, shortly before she left office, she argued that the economy had to be depoliticized and Ukraine needed a technocratic government,[27] and that she was willing to lead such a technocratic government.[28]

Ukraine Today and the Financial Times reported speculation that Jaresko could become Ukraine's new prime minister, which was also suggested by former United States Ambassador to Ukraine Steven Pifer and President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko.[29][30][31] The Ukrainian Weekly reported that Jaresko had started forming a provisional technocratic Cabinet of Ministers the previous month.[32]

Jaresko was rejected as a prime ministerial candidate by the governing coalition.[33] When speaker of the Ukrainian parliament, Volodymyr Groysman, was elected as Ukraine's new prime minister on 14 April 2016, he did not retain Jaresko in his new Cabinet.[33]

# ? Apr 27, 2024 20:29

DJJIB-DJDCT: Feb 1, 2024

It�s pretty clear how some of this went down in hindsight, Georgia has similar leaders who got their citizenship for government office, Chrystia Freeland�s mother helped draft the Ukrainian constitution, but you�ll never convince anyone of it.

Even that US Disinformation Tsar who sang Mary Poppins was running some Ukrainian ministry or whatever after 2014.

# ? Apr 27, 2024 20:32

Not So Fast: Dec 27, 2007

https://twitter.com/intermarium24/status/1784161413235195961

fucks sake, selling the peace monument to get weapons is sickening

# ? Apr 27, 2024 20:36

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019; Can't post for 17 hours!

Not So Fast posted:

fucks sake, selling the peace monument to get weapons is sickening

🫡👏

# ? Apr 27, 2024 20:36

lobster shirt: Jun 14, 2021

i guess some people just don't like being reminded of who won ww2

# ? Apr 27, 2024 20:38

BearsBearsBears: Aug 4, 2022

Nix Panicus posted:

I accept that Ukraine has a New York, but *why* do they have a New York? Did the Dutch plant a flag? Cultural exchange? Someone just decided they liked how it sounded?

Ukraine also used to have a New England.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_England_(medieval)

lobster shirt posted:

i guess some people just don't like being reminded of who won ww2

They don't like being reminded that they helped win WW2.

# ? Apr 27, 2024 20:38

BearsBearsBears: Aug 4, 2022

double-post

# ? Apr 27, 2024 20:39

Xaris: Jul 25, 2006; Lucky there's a family guy
Lucky there's a man who positively can do
All the things that make us
Laugh and cry

Not So Fast posted:

https://twitter.com/intermarium24/status/1784161413235195961

fucks sake, selling the peace monument to get weapons is sickening

tbf the amount of money is paltry. it�s not for that: it�s for media optics for the yasss kweeen neocon Reddit crowd to jack off to

# ? Apr 27, 2024 20:48

Horseshoe theory: Mar 7, 2005

Not So Fast posted:

https://twitter.com/intermarium24/status/1784161413235195961

fucks sake, selling the peace monument to get weapons is sickening

Plowshares into swords, OP.

# ? Apr 27, 2024 20:50

Lostconfused: Oct 1, 2008

Putin and the Russian army are clearly failing in their state goals of denazification, another shameful L.

# ? Apr 27, 2024 20:53

Nix Panicus: Feb 25, 2007

DJJIB-DJDCT posted:

It�s pretty clear how some of this went down in hindsight, Georgia has similar leaders who got their citizenship for government office, Chrystia Freeland�s mother helped draft the Ukrainian constitution, but you�ll never convince anyone of it.

Even that US Disinformation Tsar who sang Mary Poppins was running some Ukrainian ministry or whatever after 2014.

My favorite bit is that she tried to put herself in charge of a 'technocratic' government and nobody bit and she was not invited back. I like to think that she came up with that one on her own and really thought she had a chance

# ? Apr 27, 2024 20:56

DaysBefore: Jan 24, 2019

Not So Fast posted:

https://twitter.com/intermarium24/status/1784161413235195961

fucks sake, selling the peace monument to get weapons is sickening

This is so hosed up. It's so insanely hosed up that nobody is acknowledging what's happening in Ukrainian politics. Every army regiment put in front of the cameras is covered in swastikas, every post-Maidan opportunist politician thinks Hitler is ftw, the sacrifices of millions of Ukrainians to defeat fascism are being written off as Russofascist propaganda while liberal western politicos pose next to Banderite psychos and nobody is mentioning it. Every news org was printing stories of the rapidly rising Nazi risk five years ago and now it's like hey, shut up vatnik, 10% of Ukranians fled their country because they love democracy and can't wait to die for it also, the primary language of half the population is no longer recognised by the government, btw check out these cool pics of the heroes of the Blud Und Soil Brigade being awarded the Order of Bandera First Class for their heroic retreat from New Hampshire, Donetsk Oblast

What the gently caress

# ? Apr 27, 2024 20:58

Mr SuperAwesome: Apr 6, 2011; im from the bad post police, and i'm afraid i have bad news

DJJIB-DJDCT posted:

If it�s any consolation, the same is true for the Western Front during the Great War, where a fraction of the men on either side were actually in frontline trenches at any given time, and from the Swiss border to the Atlantic ocean there were vast distances where there was practically no one at all.

Everybody imagines the tiny triangle in Flanders that had the highest density of forces engaged as the whole thing.

also not a general, but why didn�t they just attack through the empty bits?

currently :crackping:

ing at how the Guardian�s leading article is the one about azov linked up thread (with not even a full sentence about the ~~nazi~~ political bits)

# ? Apr 27, 2024 20:59

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019; Can't post for 17 hours!

Ubuntu ftw
https://twitter.com/mfa_russia/status/1784215387669680504

# ? Apr 27, 2024 21:02

StashAugustine: Mar 24, 2013; Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

BearsBearsBears posted:

Ukraine also used to have a New England.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_England_(medieval)

Oh yeah this is key to the theory that the war is a battle between the houses of Godwinson and Hadrada for who will challenge the Norman control of England

# ? Apr 27, 2024 21:03

Nonsense: Jan 26, 2007

Putin must take all the territories these monuments were downed in.

# ? Apr 27, 2024 21:05

DaysBefore: Jan 24, 2019

Remembering when the fascist dogs in Russia proposed a UN resolution to ban veneration of collabs and Nazis and take action against neoNazis and the democracy loving westerners vetoed it

# ? Apr 27, 2024 21:06

Horseshoe theory: Mar 7, 2005

DaysBefore posted:

Remembering when the fascist dogs in Russia proposed a UN resolution to ban veneration of collabs and Nazis and take action against neoNazis and the democracy loving westerners vetoed it

Freedom of Worship (of fascist ideology, since it won WW2 in the West), OP!

# ? Apr 27, 2024 21:13

BearsBearsBears: Aug 4, 2022

StashAugustine posted:

Oh yeah this is key to the theory that the war is a battle between the houses of Godwinson and Hadrada for who will challenge the Norman control of England

One more weird fact, the city of Donetsk was founded by a Welshman.

# ? Apr 27, 2024 21:51

Dokapon Findom: Dec 5, 2022; They hated Futanari because His posts were shit.

Gripweed posted:

Remember that Norm Macdonald joke about how after doing two world wars Germany shouldn�t have been allowed to be a country anymore? It blew my mind to find out the Allies secretly agreed that Germany didn�t get to be a country anymore, but the US and UK went back on it.

Morgenthau Plan ftw

# ? Apr 27, 2024 21:52

Ardennes: May 12, 2002

Mr SuperAwesome posted:

also not a general, but why didn�t they just attack through the empty bits?

currently ing at how the Guardian�s leading article is the one about azov linked up thread (with not even a full sentence about the ~~nazi~~ political bits)

The other side would see the build up of forces and send reserves over there and it would go back and worth.

Verdun happened because it was a fairly critical series of forts and the French wanted to make a stand there, the Somne happened because Haig wanted to make progress in Belgium and cut the Germans from the coast; in both cases it was just too armies running each other down.

Here, I think the Ukrainians just don�t really have the reserves they did even a couple months ago. You really aren�t seeing tanks of the field or even that many IFVs on their side. The aid bill didn�t provide them with a spare army to fight with.

# ? Apr 27, 2024 22:02

Xaris: Jul 25, 2006; Lucky there's a family guy
Lucky there's a man who positively can do
All the things that make us
Laugh and cry

DaysBefore posted:

This is so hosed up. It's so insanely hosed up that nobody is acknowledging what's happening in Ukrainian politics. Every army regiment put in front of the cameras is covered in swastikas, every post-Maidan opportunist politician thinks Hitler is ftw, the sacrifices of millions of Ukrainians to defeat fascism are being written off as Russofascist propaganda while liberal western politicos pose next to Banderite psychos and nobody is mentioning it. Every news org was printing stories of the rapidly rising Nazi risk five years ago and now it's like hey, shut up vatnik, 10% of Ukranians fled their country because they love democracy and can't wait to die for it also, the primary language of half the population is no longer recognised by the government, btw check out these cool pics of the heroes of the Blud Und Soil Brigade being awarded the Order of Bandera First Class for their heroic retreat from New Hampshire, Donetsk Oblast

What the gently caress

lol no brain left unbroken ftw.

but yes when you zoom out and actually see the whole picture, it's one big insane global gaslighting. it's honestly quite amazing how well aesthetics-driven identity-politics-adjacent media blitz and containment control for social media* has worked marvelous on the collective brains of western burgeroids

*_{Air Force Research Laboratory, Munitions Directorate, Eglin AFB, FL 32542, USA.}

e: it's 10 years out of date and they've gotten much better and refined at it .

https://web.archive.org/web/20140715044309/redhttps://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/07/eglin-air-force-base-busted-gaming-reddit.html

Xaris has issued a correction as of 22:16 on Apr 27, 2024

# ? Apr 27, 2024 22:07

Nix Panicus: Feb 25, 2007

Have you ever stopped to consider that there were no real differences between eastern and western Ukrainians and it was all made up culture war nonsense for political gain?

# ? Apr 27, 2024 22:07

Dokapon Findom: Dec 5, 2022; They hated Futanari because His posts were shit.

euphronius posted:

I love how consistently terrible those maps have been

San Andreas gang territory map rear end map

# ? Apr 27, 2024 22:08

KomradeX: Oct 29, 2011

Ardennes posted:

They are attempting to do so in areas, but it really seems like the best they are going to do is build a couple of strong points and hope for the best. It is unclear what forces are in the Niu York area (sorry guys it is going to come up now) but the last reports were territorial militia up there which have never faired well during this war.

The 352nd Chapo Brigade will fight in the Williamsburg section of Niu York to the Last Joul.

# ? Apr 27, 2024 22:10

Ardennes: May 12, 2002

KomradeX posted:

The 352nd Chapo Brigade will fight in the Williamsburg section of Niu York to the Last Joul.

Time to fight and die for a 25 dollar pastrami sandwich

# ? Apr 27, 2024 22:13

Dokapon Findom: Dec 5, 2022; They hated Futanari because His posts were shit.

DaysBefore posted:

This is so hosed up. It's so insanely hosed up that nobody is acknowledging what's happening in Ukrainian politics. Every army regiment put in front of the cameras is covered in swastikas, every post-Maidan opportunist politician thinks Hitler is ftw, the sacrifices of millions of Ukrainians to defeat fascism are being written off as Russofascist propaganda while liberal western politicos pose next to Banderite psychos and nobody is mentioning it. Every news org was printing stories of the rapidly rising Nazi risk five years ago and now it's like hey, shut up vatnik, 10% of Ukranians fled their country because they love democracy and can't wait to die for it also, the primary language of half the population is no longer recognised by the government, btw check out these cool pics of the heroes of the Blud Und Soil Brigade being awarded the Order of Bandera First Class for their heroic retreat from New Hampshire, Donetsk Oblast

What the gently caress

The nazis are desperate, so they are scrambling to erase history before they themselves are rightfully erased from this existence

# ? Apr 27, 2024 22:13

DJJIB-DJDCT: Feb 1, 2024

Xaris posted:

lol no brain left unbroken ftw.

but yes when you zoom out and actually see the whole picture, it's one big insane global gaslighting. it's honestly quite amazing how well aesthetics-driven identity-politics-adjacent media blitz and containment control for social media* has worked marvelous on the collective brains of western burgeroids

*_{Air Force Research Laboratory, Munitions Directorate, Eglin AFB, FL 32542, USA.}

e: it's 10 years out of date and they've gotten much better and refined at it .

https://web.archive.org/web/20140715044309/redhttps://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/07/eglin-air-force-base-busted-gaming-reddit.html

Don�t forget this was (is, they just no longer publish the list) reddit�s largest posting community

# ? Apr 27, 2024 22:19

Nix Panicus: Feb 25, 2007

Ardennes posted:

The other side would see the build up of forces and send reserves over there and it would go back and worth.

Verdun happened because it was a fairly critical series of forts and the French wanted to make a stand there, the Somne happened because Haig wanted to make progress in Belgium and cut the Germans from the coast; in both cases it was just too armies running each other down.

Here, I think the Ukrainians just don�t really have the reserves they did even a couple months ago. You really aren�t seeing tanks of the field or even that many IFVs on their side. The aid bill didn�t provide them with a spare army to fight with.

You just buy more marines at the barracks

# ? Apr 27, 2024 22:23

Xaris: Jul 25, 2006; Lucky there's a family guy
Lucky there's a man who positively can do
All the things that make us
Laugh and cry

DJJIB-DJDCT posted:

Don�t forget this was (is, they just no longer publish the list) reddit�s largest posting community

yeah funny how they don't publish that anymore.

seeing this work in real-time starting in Feb 2022 was absolutely wild, you could see the tracers like Neo seeing the matrix for the first time. it's really shocking and actually scary how well it worked to inject and cause followers in social networks (e.g. various discords or reddits) to adopt the mindset of the 'group leaders' and how that also then disseminates into sub groups (other small discords) of these networks and so on converging onto a unified state department platform. while I think a clean division of "theres followers and there's leaders" is a bit reductive and basically reifying the group alpha vs betas, it's a close enough approximation.

Xaris has issued a correction as of 22:28 on Apr 27, 2024

# ? Apr 27, 2024 22:24

genericnick: Dec 26, 2012

Dokapon Findom posted:

Morgenthau Plan ftw

There was one good Germany though

# ? Apr 27, 2024 22:27

Lostconfused: Oct 1, 2008

Americans and Europeans love nazis and fascists, they were just too scared to say it out loud. There's nothing shocking about them jumping at the chance to finally be able to do it in public.

# ? Apr 27, 2024 22:29

Ardennes: May 12, 2002

Xaris posted:

yeah funny how they don't publish that anymore.

seeing this work in real-time starting in Feb 2022 was absolutely wild, you could see the tracers like Neo seeing the matrix for the first time. it's really shocking and actually scary how well it worked to inject and cause followers in social networks (e.g. various discords or reddits) to adopt the mindset of the 'group leaders' and how that also then disseminates into sub groups (other small discords) of these networks and so on converging onto a unified state department platform. while I think a clean division of "theres followers and there's leaders" is a bit reductive and basically reifying the group alpha vs betas, it's a close enough approximation.

It more or less worked that way on parts of telegram in Russia, usually in opposition channels.

# ? Apr 27, 2024 22:36