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I don't know. Probably not. But I'm willing to look at the evidence. Regardless of whether they are or are not real, what do they look like and what kind of powers do they have? Which religion got closest to being right about them? itt tell me about angels and how do I find out what my guardian angel looks like, if I have one.
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Nov 20, 2022 22:49
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There is very limited evidence of anything supernatural. It's 99% mostly anecdotal or wishful thinking and there is too much we simply don't understand. A good example of the 1% my (very atheist) psychology professor's wife had a twin sister. He was about to get into bed and his wife jolted awake completely horrified, saying her sister was in trouble when they lived across the nation from each other. She frantically called and it turned out her sister was having a minor heart attack at that very moment. Completely unexplainable and unbelievable unless he personally witnessed it. But there is probably some kind of deep mechanism we simply don't understand yet. There is likely an explaination for everything. Your guardian angel probably doesn't exist.
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Nov 20, 2022 23:08
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Hail, hail, fire and snow. Call the angel we will go. Far away, for to see. Friendly Angel, come to me!
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Nov 20, 2022 23:18
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Historically yes, and they want you to do wife swapping.
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Nov 20, 2022 23:21
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Yes, they're investors now.
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Nov 20, 2022 23:25
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i know tons of angels. angel de la garza, angel morales, and angel gutierrez to name just a few
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Nov 20, 2022 23:59
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Gotta steal something from the Zoroastrians.
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Nov 21, 2022 00:05
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ya ur mom OP
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Nov 21, 2022 00:11
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OP there is almost certainly no shortage of spiritually active people in D&D who would be happy to contribute to a discussion here but you're going to need to give a little more for them to work off of, such as what brought you to ask or your relevant background/experiences. It's a huge, huge topic. On the subject of guardian angels I recommend Revolt of the Angels by Anatole France, or if you just need a quick summary it is that they are deeply heretical and probably not the sort of thing anything gains by by having around in their life.
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Nov 21, 2022 00:31
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Sharkie posted:I don't know. Probably not. But I'm willing to look at the evidence. Regardless of whether they are or are not real, what do they look like and what kind of powers do they have? Which religion got closest to being right about them? According to my extensive research on the relevant historical documentary Neon Genesis: Evangelion, I can assure you that angels exist, are all trying to kill us, and we can only survive if we build gigantic robots piloted by neurotic teenagers to punch them in the face. The robots will secretly be heavily armored lobotomized clones of angels, or replicants or something, and one of the pilot's moms will be mixed in somehow it's been a while since I watched
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Nov 21, 2022 01:01
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Nelson Mandingo posted:There is very limited evidence of anything supernatural. It's 99% mostly anecdotal or wishful thinking and there is too much we simply don't understand. I've heard about this kind of stuff happening before from family members. I don't know what it is either. Private Cumshoe posted:ya ur mom OP This is sweet, thank you. Epic High Five posted:OP there is almost certainly no shortage of spiritually active people in D&D who would be happy to contribute to a discussion here but you're going to need to give a little more for them to work off of, such as what brought you to ask or your relevant background/experiences. It's a huge, huge topic. On the subject of guardian angels I recommend Revolt of the Angels by Anatole France, or if you just need a quick summary it is that they are deeply heretical and probably not the sort of thing anything gains by by having around in their life. Well I'm just curious about angels and wanted to learn and talk about them. But I guess where do guardian angels come from, what do we believe about them and why, that's a good place to narrow it down!
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Nov 21, 2022 03:26
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I wasn't actually joking about wife swapping btw, john dee famously got off his tits in a trance and claimed to have received the angelic language with which the world was created in visions and also ended up convinced by his alchemist mate that angels demanded they shag each other's wives. Also apparently if you decode everything he wrote he reckoned it would end the world or something. Weird fella.
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Nov 21, 2022 03:31
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yeah well you generally shouldn't listen to alchemists, the ones who are wrong about things are basically scammers who buy into their own bit and the ones who are right about things frequently explode because the latter are early modern chemists
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Nov 21, 2022 03:35
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Thynges I Wonnet Worke Withe
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Nov 21, 2022 03:36
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Angels Pros: be not afraid. They say so directly. Clearly no problem here Cons: way too many EYES
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Nov 21, 2022 03:36
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Sharkie posted:Well I'm just curious about angels and wanted to learn and talk about them. But I guess where do guardian angels come from, what do we believe about them and why, that's a good place to narrow it down! I think humans have evolved to pattern match everything and to have a sense of hierarchy in the group and developed the concept of protective spirits. So, they come from evolution.
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Nov 21, 2022 04:04
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From what I recall the old timey word for angels is elohim, which itself has a largely forgotten word meaning eloa, which essentially means gods. It helps to remember that at various points through history Christianity and it's precursors were deeply supremacist in the religious sense, sometimes to a genocidal degree. In this case, the relevant example would probably be ancient Canaanite Yahwist worshippers. Archeologists have found increasing evidence that probably suggests that they basically genocided the other religions in the Levant out of existence* after a particular militant sect of the Yahwist faith returned from being exiled despite their previously tremendously bad policy decisions, all so that they could be the only one true religion in the Levant. You can read a bit of this in the bible itself. After the story of Moses a lot of the stuff referring to other gods disappears to be replaced by them just being evil spirits, demons (Actually a word ripped off wholesale from ancient roman beliefs and literally demonized into meaning something malevolent compared to what it actually was.), etc, etc as what was previously a religion that had to tolerate other faiths steadily went hard right into (at times increasingly violent) exclusionary monotheism over the centuries. Meaning that asking if angels is real is really no different than asking if gods are real. So I guess what you're really asking is, are you an atheist or some sort of believer in gods existing?  *Which consisted of at least worshippers of Asherah (the wife of the god El, whom Yahweh was previously subordinate too. Syncretism does a number on religion it seems.  ) and Ba'al. Incidentally, this explains the hatred for Ba'al in the bible when he shows up, since his worshippers were living in the Levant too (Fun fact, Ba'al is also a Canaanite god, which makes the opposition to him likely one of very much worldly power since it's not like he just showed up one day and the Yahwist's, who were also originally a Canaanite religion, wouldn't have known about Ba'al prior to that.) and were standing directly in the way of Yahwist's that wanted there to be only one religion they had control of. So there was from their perspective a reason for a serious hatred for that religion, especially since the Bible itself depicts old Israelite kings as sometimes preferring Ba'al's worshippers over the Yahwist sects that got the region subjugated to Egypt for awhile through their religious wars. Probably explains the slander in the bible too, if it turns out it was slander. The whole burning children alive thing comes to mind. Never even heard actual certifiable proof it happened (and if it did, there's evidence that suggests it only happened in times of extreme cataclysm and desperation. Basically a last ditch effort to get their gods to stop killing them by offering a portion of their own flesh and future to them.) that hadn't come from a Christian apologist or Roman/Grecian apologist looking to excuse the razing of Carthage (and conflating the two due to Carthage originally being a Phoenician colony) that wasn't highly suspect and extrapolating at the very best. TL;DR: It'd probably be altogether wiser to do something better to do with your life than worry about the beliefs of the modern offspring of an ancient religion that went through so many changes that it doesn't even resemble what it used to be, and when it did somehow couldn't even bring itself to co-exist with it's own pantheon that it was a part of. Alternatively, bank on your guardian angel being a kick rear end Marvel Thor type I guess? Archonex fucked around with this message at 17:59 on Nov 21, 2022 |
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Nov 21, 2022 06:50
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why aren't we cutting to the heart of the matter and finally figuring out how many can dance on the head of a pin?Staluigi posted:Angels i think canonically the amount of eyes was why they kept having to tell people not to be afraid Captain_Maclaine posted:According to my extensive research on the relevant historical documentary Neon Genesis: Evangelion, I can assure you that angels exist, are all trying to kill us, worse, they're trying to get to know us
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Nov 21, 2022 07:17
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I've heard the deep space pilots talk about them. They live on the moons of Iego, I think. They're the most beautiful creatures in the universe.
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Nov 21, 2022 07:24
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Are ghosts real? Are satyrs real? Is Slenderman real? If faith is important to you, trying to poke at the idea of 'proof' isn't going to help.
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Nov 21, 2022 08:29
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Are ghosts real? Are satyrs real? Is Slenderman real? I'm not, I literally just want to learn about angels and read a discussion by people who know about them, because life is hard and it's a nice thing to read about. For example I just read about St. John of Bosco, who reportedly had an angelic bodyguard in the form of a grey dog named Grigio! quote:John Bosco (1815-1888), popularly known as Don Bosco, was an Italian Roman Catholic priest - and declared a Saint some 40 years after his death. The good priest devoted his life to helping the disadvantaged youth, and was hated by many evil people who wanted him dead. It was also supposedly spotted a hundred years after his death. I'm willing to put Grigio in the "probable" category because why not. Sharkie fucked around with this message at 13:04 on Nov 21, 2022 |
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Nov 21, 2022 12:59
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Der Untergang posted:I've heard the deep space pilots talk about them. They live on the moons of Iego, I think. They're the most beautiful creatures in the universe. I don't believe that. How can there be moons made of Lego.
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Nov 21, 2022 13:28
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Is this the new UAP/UFO thread?
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Nov 21, 2022 19:02
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OP, I personally do not think angels exist, guardians or no, but they're a funny cultural icon. Lovecraft had nothing on YHWH when He was making those monstrosities, all eyes and dangly bits where bits shouldn't dangle, ugh. I think that the background is our inability to deal with the fact that the universe, by and large, does not give a single poo poo about whether we feel good or don't, so guardian angels are a lovely idea. If only there were someone out there whose job was to ensure my well-being, personally! But at the same time, it seems like this diminishes the good and evil we can do to one another. The idea of demons makes a mockery out of the very real, existing people who did and do horrible things. Does the idea of angels do the same for goodness and kindness? Of course we can also argue the converse, that the idea of perfect beings who are literally "goodness" made manifest, gives us something to aspire towards. GhostofJohnMuir posted:why aren't we cutting to the heart of the matter and finally figuring out how many can dance on the head of a pin? This is a Babylon 5 joke, isn't it?
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Nov 21, 2022 19:51
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I heard they had a space program When they sing you can't hear, there's no air Sometimes I think I kind of like that and Other times I think I'm already there
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Nov 21, 2022 21:30
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No. Sorry OP, it brings me no joy to inform you of this.
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Nov 21, 2022 23:50
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Yes. There is a documentary called Angels in the Outfield about how angels once helped a losing baseball team to win in response to the prayers of a child. The angels are clearly visible to believers.
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Nov 22, 2022 00:02
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eXXon posted:Is this the new UAP/UFO thread? Well, it's certainly not the new good thread
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Nov 22, 2022 00:24
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Archonex posted:Probably explains the slander in the bible too, if it turns out it was slander. The whole burning children alive thing comes to mind. Never even heard actual certifiable proof it happened (and if it did, there's evidence that suggests it only happened in times of extreme cataclysm and desperation. Basically a last ditch effort to get their gods to stop killing them by offering a portion of their own flesh and future to them.) that hadn't come from a Christian apologist or Roman/Grecian apologist looking to excuse the razing of Carthage (and conflating the two due to Carthage originally being a Phoenician colony) that wasn't highly suspect and extrapolating at the very best. Thanks for this post! But unfortunately it does look like the sacrifice of children did happen. https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2014-01-23-ancient-carthaginians-really-did-sacrifice-their-children It looks like we've found lots of remains treated in the same way as sacrificial animal remains. Also I'm not a huge Thor fan so pass. H.R. Hufflepuff posted:Well, it's certainly not the new good thread You should post something then! Surely you've had thoughts about angels at some point or another. Angels are useful for thinking with. So share them if you want to. edit: Now here's an angel I'd be happy to have as a guardian angel, very cool.  Mughal Empire, 1700s Sharkie fucked around with this message at 00:52 on Nov 22, 2022 |
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Nov 22, 2022 00:49
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Can we discuss other demigods/supernatural creatures in here? Or is this an angels only thread?
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Nov 22, 2022 00:51
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Angels are real But they don't always have wings They surely bring joy But they don't always sing Angels are real If you take a hard look There are angels all around you They catch all the crooks Yes, Angels are real They're our boys in blue Who keep us all safe There is nothing more true Thank you for reading. Please like and share to all your friends if you support the police.
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Nov 22, 2022 00:55
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Jaxyon posted:Can we discuss other demigods/supernatural creatures in here? Ok but let's keep things celestial. Carmant posted:Angels are real Incorrect. When cops die you can clearly see their little red demon souls with horns getting dragged down into hell.
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Nov 22, 2022 01:12
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Are fairies and harpies real?
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Nov 22, 2022 01:23
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Jaxyon posted:Are fairies and harpies real? Yes, and yes.
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Nov 22, 2022 01:57
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Cranappleberry posted:Yes. A couple of follow-up documentaries revealed that the child and "angel" were in fact time travelers suffering from various forms of psychosis due to exposure to nuclear materials and the brain-melting effects of time travel itself. They didn't influence the games at all, but rather knew exactly what was going to happen.
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Nov 22, 2022 02:08
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Sharkie posted:Thanks for this post! But unfortunately it does look like the sacrifice of children did happen. https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2014-01-23-ancient-carthaginians-really-did-sacrifice-their-children It looks like we've found lots of remains treated in the same way as sacrificial animal remains. That was what the "if it happened" thing was about. As i've had it explained to me, the current thought is that if it happened (and it does seem like it did at least a few times) it was an "oh poo poo we're all going to die from _____ catastrophe. Maybe if we do this at least some of us will survive if we do this" sort of deal where the normal propitiations didn't work and whatever event was causing issues kept getting worse. So, they'd resort to sacrificing children because literally nothing else was working. This is somewhat supported by the large amounts of time between some of the possible child sacrifices and the way they were more or less all done at once. Which tends to indicate in other cultures that it was a massive event that provoked it. Keep in mind that that traditionally, a lot of cultures in that region had religious sacrifices of living things. Actually, ancient early era Abrahamic faiths have some texts that suggest it took place in certain ways too at one point. And since the Abrahamic faiths have a lot of "crossover" with other sometimes older faiths (Literally, the story of the tower of Babel is stolen wholesale from another religion just with the Abrahamic god put into it and the original god scrubbed out.), well, yeah. If this doesn't make sense or seems barbaric simply for the sake of barbarism, keep in mind that religions back then tended to not always work the way we think of them today. The sort of "worship me and get rewards, don't worship me and I will make you suffer like an authoritarian would" thing was a common trait of monotheistic or religions that decided they wanted to be superior to other religions (which regardless of their nature were often just as much a vessel of the state as their own thing depending on the nation and time period) as opposed to other more henotheistic or polytheistic religions which would often go to extremes when looking at the lovely conditions of existence in the ancient world and saying "Wow, this awful ____ loving sucks to experience. I don't want to die of famine or whatever. Better sacrifice to _____ god loving my day up so he'll leave me alone!". Kind of like a mafia-esque sort of "shame if something happened" deal. Only people talked themselves into doing horrible things to each other not because they wanted to be the king poo poo of faith mountain but instead because they didn't understand why people were periodically getting sick and entire cities were dying of plague or why their relatives were drowning at sea for some inexplicable reason or whatever. Edit: And I should add that in particular of the Phoenician related nations and religions Carthage's ultimate fate was to get razed to the ground with quite a bit of it's population absolutely slaughtered while most of the remainder were dragged off into lifelong chattel slavery after many years of them getting demonized by multiple nations and faiths who saw gain in it. So, while it was definitely hosed up and evil they were probably pretty loving desperate to try something like that at certain points in history depending on when it happened. Heck, the destruction of Carthage is an excellent example of this sort of desperation all by itself. The destruction was by some scholars thought to be so over the top that that's where the talk about Rome salting the earth came from. In reality, that was a 19th century invention that was born out of all the propaganda around conquering the region/demonizing them for whatever gain was in it. Even more weirdly and insane than that is that the truth is a bit more over the top than what they came up with. After conquering the city of Carthage the Roman's straight up made a production of trying to convince people they levied a curse against the land so it would never be resettled like they were the evil inverse of that sunflower seed granny in Ukraine. Only in this case it'd probably be more accurate of an analogy if she was from Russia and rooting for an empire of genocidal expansionist slavers instead. From wikipedia, since i'm not going to go web surfing to find a site on this and I don't have access to the books on it anymore posted:The third and final Punic War began in 149 BC, largely due to the efforts of hawkish Roman senators, led by Cato the Elder, to finish Carthage off once and for all.[110] Cato was known for finishing nearly every speech in the Senate, regardless of the subject, with the phrase ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam—"Moreover, I am of the opinion that Carthage ought to be destroyed". In particular, the growing Roman Republic sought the famously rich agricultural lands of Carthage and its African territories, which had been known to the Romans following their invasion in the previous Punic War.[111][112][113] Carthage's border war with Rome's ally Numidia, though initiated by the latter, nonetheless provided the pretext for Rome to declare war. again, quoting wikipedia because gently caress trying to find a site nerdy enough to source on short notice... posted:The site was cursed (evocation) with the intention of preventing it ever being resettled; the notion that Roman forces then sowed the city with salt is a 19th-century invention... This concludes my derail into ancient history. If you're bothered by this then you have my apologies for distracting from this weird thread Archonex fucked around with this message at 14:11 on Nov 22, 2022 |
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Nov 22, 2022 11:34
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Probably not, neither are daemons though. Idk, it would be interesting if they were real and maybe they are but probably not.
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Nov 22, 2022 12:35
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Read This Present Darkness. Angels with katanas baby
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Nov 22, 2022 15:46
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Tolkien said Gandalf was like an angel and Gandalf is real and is my friend. Ergo,
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Nov 22, 2022 16:30
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Judgy Fucker posted:Tolkien said Gandalf was like an angel and Gandalf is real and is my friend. Ergo,
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Nov 22, 2022 17:12
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