Are angels real?

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Are angels real?

Dapper_Swindler: Feb 14, 2012; Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

Probably not, neither are daemons though. Idk, it would be interesting if they were real and maybe they are but probably not.

# ¿ Nov 22, 2022 12:35

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# ¿ May 15, 2024 20:45

Dapper_Swindler: Feb 14, 2012; Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

Absurd Alhazred posted:

Not everybody's Christian, FYI. For the people talking about "heretical" this and "heretical" that.

My position is that the best angels are in the Torah because they're just messengers of God, they're just these dudes who can wrestle you half to death and that you won't know are out of the ordinary unless you either cross them or treat them really well - in the former case you might find yourself fire and brimstoned, in the latter God will spread your seed around (which maybe is too big of a deal - the patriarchs are depicted as figuratively wrestling with all this a lot). There's something very subtly sinister about that that later depictions like the weird stuff Ezekiel is smoking about just can't carry.

yeah this. i also always liked the muslim idea of the devil where he doesn't like god but has a bunch of rules that he has to follow and is basicaly just an extreamly hosed up prosecutor who will try to entrap you into doing bad poo poo but not directly tell you to do the actions. its more interesting then the evangelical literalism horse poo poo where satan is some magic anti god.

# ¿ Nov 25, 2022 16:59

Dapper_Swindler: Feb 14, 2012; Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

eXXon posted:

Oh, so Satan is a mod? I knew it! But are angels permabanned superstar posters then?

i think its more satan is an idiot king and angels are mods.

# ¿ Nov 25, 2022 17:40

Dapper_Swindler: Feb 14, 2012; Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

Captain_Maclaine posted:

I know this is a joke thread and all but if it wasn't the burden of proof tends to be on the person making the positive claim, not on those questioning that claim, particularly in the absence of any real reason to believe it.

its a joke thread but i love weird stupid angel and daemon bullshit. i love how tons of weird goons of the early enlightenment wrote giant tomes with summoning patterns and poo poo for daemons that would like be bound to them and poo poo also what the would do and stuff. if i remember correctly, alot of it was sorta based on very very old jewish mystisim and such but then got sorta Christianized.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_demons_in_the_Ars_Goetia

baal is just king charles.

stolas is just an owl with long legs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lesser_Key_of_Solomon#Ars_Goetia

Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 04:28 on Dec 4, 2022

# ¿ Dec 4, 2022 04:25

Dapper_Swindler: Feb 14, 2012; Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

Blue Footed Booby posted:

Marchosias appears as a winged, fire-breathing she-wolf, but will take a "more agreeable form" if asked. This more agreeable form is just a dude. I've seen no explanation for the gender change.

i mean i always take on the belief of high order/hapsburg/royal daemons kinda have various forms they like and will take them depending on situation or whatever. also do daemons even have physical sex, maybe they are like ALL gender. also yeah its all bullshit but its fun.

yeah, i too like Vivian's interpretation, hence the avatar. i will say her idea of hell is alot like how i viewed it. just kinda of a shittier earth where everyone is an rear end in a top hat and various other creatures live there and its kinda just sucky and violent/exploitive. also i feel like if humanity has any agency there, we have probably already conquered parts of it.

Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 06:49 on Dec 4, 2022

# ¿ Dec 4, 2022 06:44

Dapper_Swindler: Feb 14, 2012; Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

Bel Shazar posted:

Her version sounds like Earth

Yeah well, I mean it makes sense, also pretty sure Clive barkers hell is similar.

Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 13:14 on Dec 4, 2022

# ¿ Dec 4, 2022 13:12

Dapper_Swindler: Feb 14, 2012; Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

DarkCrawler posted:

Angels in Old Testament: Literally all we do is either gently caress poo poo up or warn you that we're about to gently caress poo poo up if you don't shape up motherfucker

Angels in New Testament: We're nice now, be not afraid, we sing and like Jesus and all

Angels in Revelations: PSYCH BITCH

revelations is fun because its basically the mushroom visions of some exiled dude or one of his disciples that mostly about how much poo poo Diocletian or Nero sucks and how jesus will kick the poo poo out of them.

# ¿ Dec 4, 2022 17:04

Dapper_Swindler: Feb 14, 2012; Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

BigglesSWE posted:

Having read a metric ton about Paul recently, it appears to me that he didn�t even write that much about Jesus himself. Paul is the earliest Christian writing we have, but the amount of details about Jesus that he explicitly shares can be summed up with:

1: he got betrayed and
2: he died (and, allegedly, was resurrected).

yeah, Paul was weird loving dude. He comes off as a dude who when he gets into something, he over does it, also a loving ton of hang ups. apperently he got into tons of fights with peter and other followers who actually knew jesus and he was the one that spun it into the whole "actually he is God" stuff.

honestly i find historical jesus interesting because he was some poor dirt worker who becomes a preacher and then fucks around for a couple years and then fucks up the money changers because they are polluting the temple and he is a proto zealot, he gets brutally killed in one of the worst ways possible and dies and ignoable and foregettable death. but his followers said he lived and hosed off to hevean or some poo poo. then that takes off when some dude named paul crack pings and thinks jesus is his best friend for real and is actually God. and the rest is history but with way more details.

Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 03:15 on Dec 27, 2022

# ¿ Dec 27, 2022 03:09

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# ¿ May 15, 2024 20:45

Dapper_Swindler: Feb 14, 2012; Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

BigglesSWE posted:

There's some weirdness with the cleansing of the Temple though.

For one thing: it's impossible for it to be exactly as described, i.e. that Jesus chases off the money lenders on the Temple Square because it's loving *huge*. At best he'd cause some ruckus on one end or the other before the Temple guards seizes him.

There's also the question of how this event would justify a Roman execution. It's easy to handwave it away as "ancient times brutal times amirite?" but there are other religious troublemakers in that era that got slapped around a bit and then let go. If we assume his death was not heavenly ordained (I don't think so, I'm not religious), then it's really hard to see why Jesus got killed by the Romans.

Another aspect of it that's odd is the whole affair around his death, more precisely: why was, by all accounts, *only* Jesus targeted by the Roman authorities? By all accounts, the followers of Jesus could live on and preach in Jerusalem in the years following the crucifixion, apparently without the Romans (or the Temple authorities for that matter) caring overly much about it. For some reason, it appears the Romans thought it was enough to give the leader (Jesus) a death reserved for troublemakers, but not his crew.

Then there's the fact that the last Gospel (John) puts the cleansing of the Temple at the very beginning of Jesus' ministry, as opposed to the Synoptic Gospels that put it towards the end and tie it directly to his death. That being said, John is overall extremely unlikely to contain genuine historical facts about Jesus (being the last gospel to be written and containing a lot of fairly complex theology) so who knows what this odd placement of the cleansing entails.

i believe its supposed to be the outer outer court where you could by your sacrifices and poo poo. Jesus hated the whole complexity and purity stuff of the temple and all that poo poo and wanted more streamlined and focused on getting romans out and purifying the faith and such.

John is also all about making jesus the magic godhead and i believe is the latest of the canonicals(so like 200 years after) and alot of it is meant to distance jesus from being a jewish peasent rebel/preacher and more softened for gentile/roman audiences.

also the romans hated him loving poo poo up because that = rebelion against rome.

# ¿ Dec 27, 2022 16:45

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Are angels real?