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meant to click preview whoops, not done yet
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Dec 1, 2022 15:18
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| # ¿ May 21, 2024 10:44 |
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Ok folks, this is going to be the longest one yet. I'll try to keep the other three shorter. Canada Morocco Referee: Raphael CLAUS (BRA) VAR: Julio Bascuñan (CHI) I was starting to wonder if the #1 Brazilian at the tournament would work again in the group stages after Sampaio had already worked twice. But here he is! He had England Iran. Biggest issues in that was the VAR, really - Claus did fine, maybe slightly below average for what we have seen elsewhere in the World Cup, but nothing really disqualifying there. This might be the "easiest" game of the day so I think this might be a way to try to keep his hands clean for the knockouts. Croatia Belgium Referee: Anthony TAYLOR (ENG) VAR: Marco Fritz (GER) Anthony Taylor on relatively short rest gets another crack at it. It looks like FIFA were really pleased with his performance in South Korea / Ghana to line him up that fast. Good to know that the red card was supported. The duel between him and Oliver for the knockouts is going to be fun to watch - I thought Taylor was good the other day, and Oliver seemed great yesterday, so we'll see if Taylor can respond. Japan Spain Referee: Victor GOMES (RSA) VAR: Fernando Guerrero (MEX) Gomes had France and Australia previously, and I can't really remember anything about it to be honest. Guerrero, the VAR, was the one who sent down the handball changed to a free kick coming out in Tunisia Denmark and recommended the offside in Morocco Belgium that was reviewed for interfering with an opponent. He was paired with his compatriot Ramos in both of those games. Costa Rica Germany Referee: Stéphanie FRAPPART (FRA) AR1: Neuza Back (BRA) AR2: Karen Diaz Medina (MEX) VAR: Drew Fischer (CAN) Offside AVAR (2): Kathryn Nesbitt (USA) Alright. Let me start with this: Stéphanie Frappart is, objectively, in the top tier of referees in the world. She works Ligue 1, she's worked in the Champions League (albeit barely - almost feels like they realized she never had and gave her a game in November), the Europa League, and the Nations League. I hope she does extremely well today and that all we are doing is laughing about Costa Rica's antics after the game. But she is not ready for this game. She may see it through, but, objectively, she's not ready for it. She seems to be somewhere between like 7 and 10ish in France's version of the select group. That's an amazing accomplishment and I don't want to put anyone down who has gotten to that level. But it would be like, say, Chris Kavanagh from the Premier League working this game. Chris is in the upper echelon of world referees, but that's just not good enough for what you expect at the world cup from UEFA. Yeah, maybe when you have to grade on a curve, the 4th or 5th guy out of CONCACAF isn't particularly strong. But consider István Kovács. He did a quarterfinal at the U17 world cup, did a match at Euro 2020, has worked in the semi finals of the Champions League, and had the Conference League final. Kovacs is at the World Cup as a 4th official only, it appears, because Frappart is working this match. This appointment is pretty surprising. It seemed like there was a lot of jockeying for her to have the opener, then that didn't happen. Then as upsets kept happening, you start to say "ok, no true dead rubbers, where can she fit?". I think if it weren't for Argentina yesterday asking for Neutrality to be abandoned, it's possible Frappart isn't on this game. FIFA put themselves between a rock and a hard place here - you cant make a big deal about bringing all of these Women referee and then never put them on the field. Well, I say can't, they shouldn't anyway. They did the same thing about the Olympics - made a big deal that "actually, the referee pool is completely open, any referee we brought could do either men's or women's matches" and then never crossed the line. I think this being in Qatar plus that previous "attempt" really put the pressure on them to make this happen. Part of me was wondering if they would just keep her away from everything and just give her the third place game since they considered her for the opener, but I'm glad they thought better of it. So... why this game? If Costa Rica upset Germany and a team a lot of people thought could win this go out because of something Frappart does wrong, there will be huge repercussions for women doing these games in the future. It's a huge gamble by FIFA. The best theory I have read on "Why this?" comes down to Germany and the US being some of her biggest proponents here. The theory is FIFA went "Ok, Germany, you wanted her here and to work, you can have her on your game - Costa Rica, your CONCACAF member US felt the same way, so, here you go, take it up with CONCACAF if you have any complaints." My biggest issue here is that if you have the goal to have a woman working at the world cup, you could have made a plan to do it and started preparing her years in advance. Target 2026. Send her to all of the Youth World Cups (the Youth World Cup tends to be the proving ground for referees for the world cup - most world cup referees have attended at least one of these). Give her more time to work her way up in the Champions League. Send her to the Euros and the Olympics (and actually give her matches this time). There was a way for this to happen where FIFA built credibility for this appointment by name recognition and just relevant experience, and instead they did nothing of that. That is extremely unfair to Frappart. I'm also a little bothered with the trio they selected. She's worked with french ARs and she's comfortable with them - use those. She's comfortable with them. This is going to be a tough enough hill to climb as it is, why pair her with people she has almost certainly never worked with before? (This will be the first time since the 2002 world cup, I believe, where a trio crosses a Confederation border.) Again, these women are in the top tier of referees in the world and they all work in their domestic top flight, so they are good referees! But... why in the world is Kathryn Nesbitt in the VOR and not on the field? Nesbitt has worked in the Gold Cup, she's worked world cup qualifiers, and she has been working in the MLS since 2015. Kathryn has seen CONCACAF up close and personal - she knows the kind of bullcrap that is about to happen out there. And instead, she's in the VOR. I get that Diaz Medina is also from CONCACAF, but she is not nearly as experienced as Nesbitt. Back, the other AR, didn't work a single world cup qualifier this cycle, as best I can tell, so Nesbitt could have slotted in there, too! The TL;DR: Frappart is a good referee. She shouldn't be on an elimination match at the world cup. FIFA have set her up for failure here almost at every turn - not sending her to a YWC, not letting her work the Men's Olympics, not letting her work with people she has worked with before. I hope she does well but I am very worried
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Dec 1, 2022 15:52
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Terminally Bored posted:Belgium are second in the world rankings lmao lol amazing
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Dec 1, 2022 18:10
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Brigadier Sockface posted:I think frappert and the ladyrefs are doing a great job refposter Frappart has been good, I'm really pleased with and for her. Her AR2, Karen Diaz Medina, has been poor, and the "have never worked together" is really showing - there's been a few clear breakdowns in communication. The good news at least is that Diaz Medina probably won't have much to do in this second half, so her having a rough game should no longer really matter.
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Dec 1, 2022 20:53
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Mr. Nemo posted:holy poo poo i just saw it's 48 teams and groups of 3 teams for 2026 Really should have just done 40 teams. 8 Groups of 5.
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Dec 1, 2022 20:57
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Group of Death! Group of Death!
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Dec 1, 2022 21:19
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The World Cup is good imo
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Dec 1, 2022 22:05
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TheRat posted:So who actually made the on-field call that the Japanese 2-1 goal was out of play? The assistant ref is in a horrible position to see it, and also doesn't signal anything at all. The main ref definitely can't see it. The AR would have had to make that call, would not have been the center ref. TV was saying AR put the flag up, but I never saw a replay showing that. That said, the AR only moved like, one yard up the touchline after the goal, so they were talking through comms about the play and I guess the AR said it went over the line. Is this the first time VAR eliminated a team in the group stages like that? I dont remember it happening in 2018
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Dec 1, 2022 22:30
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TheRat posted:So has anyone suggested spain lost on purpose yet? Because that's a very fortunate bracket Spain played 5-d chess and almost got sent home because of it. They just knew deep down, though, that they could rely on their friends in Germany. Truly, Friendship won the day.
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Dec 1, 2022 22:31
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poty posted:dont they have tech so it beeps in their ear if the ball goes over the line? They have that for Goal / No Goal decisions. All the cameras for it are pointed at the goal and focus on the crossbar. It'd be really annoying to get a little beep every time a shot went into row Z or whatever.
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Dec 1, 2022 22:52
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TheRat posted:I've looked at the replay many times and the AR very deliberately holds his flag down the entire time. He was also in an absolutely awful position to see it. Like, how can you call that out from here: I don't see any replay showing the flag going up so I'm just trying to work backwards here from what I do know. On a good goal, the AR would move up the field to confirm to the referee that he has a goal. In this instance, he takes like one, maybe two steps, and then stops dead. That tells me him and the center are having a conversation on the comms. I don't believe the center would make that call. The goal line is the ARs and the AR, albeit screened like you said, has the best chance of anyone on the field to see it. I don't know what the conversation on the field was but it was a quick one and then the referee blew for the ball out of play. I could be wrong and maybe the conversation was something like "I think it might have been out" "Are you sure?" "I'm not" "Ok well I'll call it out". It's hard for me to really see the world where the Center tells the AR "lets just go goal kick", but, the AR doesn't look sure so maybe that is what happened? I thought the TV Commentator said the flag went up but I have yet to find a replay to confirm that. The AR definitely should not be communicating decisions over the Comms only - if it was his call he needed to put the flag up at some point. I'm not sure if he did or not, which is obviously bad. But the AR definitely Had Questions about what he just saw based on his reaction. I believe that the referee blew for the ball out of play as the call on the field based on the reaction of the players https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPWrVyyd3U4 Ball is in the net at 2:31. Player runs off to celebrate. While he's running off, the referee turns to face the AR and then, rather than point to the center circle, looks to me to be moving the whistle to his mouth. The camera cuts and you see the Japanese player celebrating and then he stops celebrating and looks back at the referee. One of the substitutes gives the "what???" shrug. The substitutes that had ran down the touchline to start celebrating then start moving quickly back to the bench and the field players for Japan start moving back up field fast rather than coming over to celebrate. The referee then gives the "stop" motion in the direction of the goalkeeper. All of that, to me, reads as the referee blew for a goal kick, the Japanese players began retreating to get back quickly, and then the referee held up play for VAR to check. I think if he had given it as a goal on the field we wouldn't have seen the celebration stop dead like it did and the players not involved start to move as they did.
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Dec 1, 2022 23:10
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| # ¿ May 21, 2024 10:44 |
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TheRat posted:Here the Japanese players are upset about the decision and the AR still definitely has his flag down. As you I've watched every replay I can find and I have still not seen one where the flag goes up. That's a great picture, I appreciate it. I was trying to get a similar still but couldnt make it happen. Yep, flag down. I will say "at this point the whistle is gone so no need for the flag to be up anymore" but I think thats wrong, if you're saying the ball was out, you're gonna hold that flag to sell that call for a bit I think to rule out a goal, not gonna be a quick thing. So apparently either it was the center or the call on the field was goal. Probably goal. Looks like I was wrong! Here is a cool picture I found. I think these are pretty close to if not synced up. Really shows importance of camera angle. I think in the top one, with the goal and goal line not being perfectly in sync that if you moved it to line it up that the ball would appear more in play - or said another way, I think the angle here leads it to appear more out of play than it is. 
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Dec 2, 2022 00:07
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