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The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Auspol 2023 - fuck off Pauline

lih: May 15, 2013; Just a friendly reminder of what it looks like.

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it's just a cut labor think they can get away with because access to psychology is already so hosed that the cuts will probably just kinda shift around the problem a bit rather than being definitively worse overall (although it's definitely worse in principle and does nothing to address the underlying issues) & labor already have some weird issue with psychology to begin with evidently

it sucks though

personally i'm not affected for it right now as i have enough ndis funding, but they'll probably reduce my funding next year

# ¿ Dec 14, 2022 14:19

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# ¿ May 10, 2024 10:26

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Synthbuttrange posted:

I'm just baffled by their plan though.

1. file themselves as missing persons
2. die in a hail of gunfire?

they didn't file themselves as missing persons, nathaniel's wife did after he mysteriously left her to go live with his brother. when they found out about the missing persons report, their severe paranoia made them think that the cops were coming to kill them all because they'd convinced themselves nathaniel had uncovered high-level corruption in the nsw education department (in actuality he'd been complaining to the department about a bunch of issues he'd had in his last job as a principal but somewhere along the way that turned into paranoid conspiracy theories). from what's out there it seems like this was just extremely paranoid self-defense, at least from their point of view - "the cops are coming to kill us so we're going set up an ambush and kill them first"

# ¿ Dec 18, 2022 09:02

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Bucky Fullminster posted:

Sure, instead instead of discussing the interesting and previously unexplored topic of American influence in our domestic political affairs, and their stunnilgy effective efforts to fight progressiviam globally, you are making a tired joke about a poster and the effort they put into explaining extremely complicated and important stories.

It's a good podcast, but the short version is that the American ambassador at the time was an ex-CIA guy who had a series of postings in countries that strangely all seemed to have coups while he was there. Nixon/Kissinger hated Whitlam for his opposition to the Vietnam War and called him a peace-nick, and Kerr had some shady CIA connections in his past as well. There's no "proof" or anything, but the pattern definitely checks out and all the correspondence at the time is consistent with America saying "gently caress this guy let's get rid of him" and then tapping Kerr to pull some unprecedented poo poo like that.

yeah this stuff is all well-enough known among people who follow politics way too closely. some of the stuff corroborating it only really came out a few years ago with the palace letters which is why you might have missed that part

# ¿ Jan 7, 2023 14:15

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oh i had no idea hennessy was trillard back in the day here lmao

# ¿ Jan 11, 2023 02:03

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https://twitter.com/ameliabrace/status/1613367322621939712

# ¿ Jan 12, 2023 03:51

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ShoeFly posted:

Any bets on it being David Elliott and the Clubs lobby?

it's been reported that elliott is the one who warned him that someone was planning to tell the press (rumours were apparently already going around the press), and that the actual source of the rumours is reportedly some disgruntled members of perrottet's own right faction, who are apparently unhappy with some pre-selections or something

# ¿ Jan 12, 2023 11:56

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ShoeFly posted:

This was Perrottet�s own party. There�s no evidence anyone else was there (apart from his mother).

it's been reported that a bunch of other current lib mps were there (since perrottet was active in the young libs then), most notably alex hawke who i would suspect is probably behind the story getting out to some degree

# ¿ Jan 13, 2023 12:32

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a war criminal for one

# ¿ Jan 17, 2023 03:37

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Bucky Fullminster posted:

How does it work in Brisbane?

some stuff the council or the state government are able to do on their own and so they do it, but a whole lot of stuff they have conflicting powers over which causes endless conflict and shifting responsibility - most prominently anything to do with public transport infrastructure. really bcc probably just needs a few of its powers taken away from it, and the state government should set up a body to coordinate public transport and not let the council have much to do with it.

# ¿ Jan 18, 2023 09:23

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https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/politics/libs-senate-push-for-abbott/news-story/fd76276b051dff4a54471945ea743994?amp

its toney time

quote:

Former Victorian Liberal president and powerbroker Michael Kroger has called for the return of Tony Abbott to parliament through the new NSW senate vacancy.
Mr Kroger, a two-term Victorian Liberal president and conservative leader, said there could be no better candidate than the former prime minister to help the Coalition in opposition.

�Whilst this is solely a matter for the NSW division to determine who will be the replacement for the five-year term in the Senate, I believe, there can be no better candidate than former prime minister Tony Abbott,� Mr Kroger said on Wednesday.

�Tony Abbott is arguably the most successful opposition leader during my lifetime and his depth of experience would be a major benefit for the new opposition.�

The death of senator Jim Molan has created a five-year upper house vacancy for the Liberal Party in NSW which has to be filled by a Liberal who will be selected by the full 750-member state council.

There are already discussions within the Liberal Party about delaying the nomination process for a new senator until after the NSW state election in March as individuals and factions position themselves for the ballot.

A delay in the process until after the election would provide time for a bigger field of candidates even beyond the conservative faction which nominally is entitled to provide the replacement.

Mr Abbott has strong support among the rank and file of the party but senior Liberals believe that if he were to decide to return to parliament it would be better for him to do so by standing for the House of Representatives.

Despite the popular support for Mr Abbott, who lost his seat of Warringah at the 2019 election, he would have to win a ballot for the senate vacancy or any pre-selection vote for a House of Representatives seat.

There hasn�t been a former prime minister return to the parliament after losing or retiring in Australian history. Before the last federal election former National Party leader and deputy prime minister John Anderson, who retired from parliament in 2005, failed to win a party ballot after making a bid to enter the Senate.

Mr Kroger said Mr Abbott�s experience in opposition would help the Coalition.

�In recent decades the Hawke-Keating, Howard and Abbott-Turnbull-Morrison were all in office for 10 years or more,� he said. �The Rudd-Gillard-Rudd government served for only six years and one of the big reasons for that was Tony Abbott�s performance as opposition leader.

�Whilst I question the Labor government�s appointment of Kevin Rudd as ambassador to the US I can understand why the Albanese government would want to make use of the experience and position of a former prime minister.

�Tony Abbott�s immense political success and experience moving into the Senate would come at exactly the right time for the opposition.

�He is close to Peter Dutton and would help advance the Coalition�s position.�

The leading contender from the conservative faction for the Senate vacancy is Catholic School NSW chief Dallas McInerney but amid the calls for a delay in deciding a replacement the moderate faction is considering contesting the vacancy.

Other possible candidates include former NSW transport minister Andrew Constance, former Wentworth MP Dave Sharma and one-time Liberal War-ringah candidate Jane Buncle. Former NSW Liberal senator and minister Concetta Fierravanti-Wells was pushed down the Senate ticket by the right faction in favour of Senator Molan and lost her senate spot last year.

# ¿ Jan 18, 2023 22:53

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abbott's since clarified that he's not interested in a senate seat and would only run for a for a house of reps seat if the party overwhelmingly wants him (which isn't going to happen - certainly some would but it'd be too divisive)

but it was very funny at least that the idea was even raised

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/na...8682a571abb?amp

quote:

But when asked about the prospect of standing for a seat in western Sydney he said it would depend on the Liberal Party.

�I have got to be first and foremost a servant of the party and it would depend very much on what the party wanted,� Mr Abbott said. �And the last thing I would want to do is do something in a way which was highly contentious inside the party.

�I think if I were to do anything for and with the party, it ought to be something that has overwhelming support.

�The last thing I want to do is be difficult, to make difficulties for Peter Dutton, who�s a friend of mine. I admire him very much and I think he�s doing a good job.

�I think the only way an ex-party leader could go back is if there was an overwhelming demand for it.�

# ¿ Jan 21, 2023 03:00

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https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/lidia-thorpe-given-free-rein-to-vote-against-voice-but-greens-likely-to-back-it-20230125-p5cfek.html

there's a piece you can read today on the latest there

a bit messy but certainly not any sort of unity ticket with dutton and abbott

# ¿ Jan 25, 2023 11:44

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JBP posted:

E: I don't really understand why they bid on the poo poo either*. It's always a loss for the host nation. Spend a smaller amount of money on fit for purpose stadiums to host our sports and then the rest on tourism advertising

*It's for the prestige but that's not a good reason

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-25/how-a-poor-train-system-brought-the-olympics-to-brisbane/100321350

it's because the seq mayors are all idiots and decided the best way to secure funding for major rail infrastructure upgrades (that were necessary anyway) was to host the olympics

# ¿ Feb 17, 2023 07:41

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if the greens don't win a few more seats next qld election it will be considered pretty disastrous

the obvious targets are cooper and mcconnel which are already fairly close, then greenslopes and moggill are much further off but still plausible

lih fucked around with this message at 06:16 on Feb 22, 2023

# ¿ Feb 22, 2023 06:09

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BrigadierSensible posted:

More proof that Vic. Liberals won't form government in a long time.

After kicking out a bloke who said that abortion should be banned even in cases of rape, they double down by replacing him with someone who claims that babies are allowed in brothels, and that the ideals of Unity and Equality are bad extreme things.

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/victoria/new-liberal-mp-uses-maiden-speech-to-slam-equality-taken-to-extremes-20230221-p5cmam.html

This US style culture war poo poo has been proven time and again to not work, and indeed be counter-productive.

Why do they keep trying it?

she's bernie finn's protege lol. they really expelled finn just to replace him with his preferred successor

Anidav posted:

ALP KAP minority will occur before the State ALP does a deal with the Greens lol.

in an alp minority scenario i'd expect them to not do any formal deals and just try to negotiate every bill individually, but it depends on the numbers - in some scenarios kap wouldn't even be a potential path to pass bills

Jezza of OZPOS posted:

I think its unlikely not only because the LNP have the shadow of Campbell Newman still hanging over them and a leader with ties to the real hosed up fundamentalist christians of the inland enclave towns but also because I don't really think the greens have quite enough headway in the suburbs to pull a significant number of seats. Weirdly I think if anything they might be able to pull a seat or two from the more progressive regional areas. There was a decent amount of presence in the scenic rim regions last election

there doesn't need to be much of a swing against labor for them to end up in minority, especially if the greens win a few seats off them, and there's two that are already close with the greens (mcconnel and cooper) where they did very well during the federal election. then there's other potential greens targets in greenslopes, moggill, and even miller which could be winnable depending on resources available. there really aren't any remotely winnable seats for the greens outside brisbane and the party certainly doesn't have the resources to waste on trying elsewhere.

# ¿ Feb 22, 2023 08:39

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moggill and clayfield are the only lnp-held seats that are really potential greens targets at all next state election. neither is the most likely but moggill is a reasonable possibility. the lnp are just pretty weak in brisbane in the state parliament.

# ¿ Feb 22, 2023 08:48

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this is how it happened like that:

https://twitter.com/naveenjrazik/status/1629959644780326912

i appreciate the spirit of the protest but it was clearly not well executed and i would have preferred thorpe coordinate with say, the queer group she marched with in protesting, rather than acting unilaterally which took the focus away from the intended message of no cops at pride

# ¿ Feb 27, 2023 04:58

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i'm not objecting to the protest, but it could have very obviously been executed better, & her as a straight cis woman unilaterally making herself the face of 'no cops in pride' (which is the correct position) makes it much messier

# ¿ Feb 27, 2023 07:29

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Seemlar posted:

Because if you believe No Cops at Pride is a a legitimate debate to have (it obviously is) she sure hasn't facilitated it or furthered it's cause.

i think she has furthered it (there's more active discussion as a result for sure) and i am thankful for that, but it certainly wasn't as effective as it could have been etc.

# ¿ Feb 28, 2023 08:08

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freebooter posted:

I don't think Thorpe would be (or should be) copping anywhere near as much flak if she weren't straight.

she still would cop a lot of flak over it it's just a fair bit messier than it could have been

# ¿ Feb 28, 2023 22:51

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Bucky Fullminster posted:

I wonder if Lidia Thorpe is going to end up following a bit of a Tulsi Gabbard trajectory.

I admit I haven't followed too closely so hopefully am way off the mark.

don't see anything to suggest that's particularly likely

thorpe is a radical who wants indigenous sovereignty and self-determination. she can be a volatile personality and her radicalism made her a difficult fit for party politics where some level of compromise and negotiation is necessary, but she cares about causes outside her own and the right has nothing to offer her except money so it's hard to see her taking any sort of reactionary turn.

gabbard is a political opportunist who was raised in a right-wing hindu cult and had a long history of being a social conservative before she pivoted a decade ago, and has obviously since pivoted back. her commitment to progressive positions was always fairly hollow - she claimed to be anti-war while still being pro-war-on-terror and regularly went on fox to denounce obama for being soft on islamic terrorism etc., and you could see her more firmly reactionary shift coming a mile away.

# ¿ Mar 1, 2023 06:23

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https://qnews.com.au/brisbane-pride-decides-on-uniformed-police-in-pride-march/

a few years ago the brisbane pride march did actually ban uniformed police from marching, but have decided to allow them back in after successfully getting an apology for 'historic mistreatment'. that was at least something but certainly not enough, not when it's still an active problem

# ¿ Mar 1, 2023 11:48

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i never really see the debate framed in those terms from people in favour of cops marching for pride, just 'what about the gay cops?' 'the cops have changed they're good now' 'not all cops are bastards' etc.

# ¿ Mar 1, 2023 12:02

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Ranter posted:

It boils down to not understanding what acab means.

All cops, under capitalism, are bad. Their role is to violently enforce the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie. Hence even the cute gay cop that directs traffic to the tune of abba is bad despite never having directly touched an aboriginal person.

So it's simply supporters and attempted reformers of capitalism vs. revolutionaries.

Thorpe is not a revolutionary.

but thorpe is against cops at pride? i wouldn't really call her a revolutionary but a radical, certainly

# ¿ Mar 1, 2023 23:03

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i don't get the impression that thorpe has much attachment to capitalism, but it's true that her focus is certainly more on indigenous sovereignty than any question of capitalism vs. communism

'protesting cops is nonsensical unless you are a committed revolutionary' though is an extremely stupid position lol but have fun with that

# ¿ Mar 1, 2023 23:54

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it seems like it's just that the manufacturer is making a lower profit margin off fiasp than the other forms of insulin it has on the pbs, so by removing it from the pbs (which is unfortunately something the manufacturer can unilaterally do, no government decision seems to be involved here) they'll make more money because people will be forced back onto the other forms

strong-arming the government into paying them more for it is also another potential desirable outcome for them. certainly seems broken that this can even happen

# ¿ Mar 3, 2023 08:03

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https://twitter.com/tfswebb/status/1631597051149701122

# ¿ Mar 3, 2023 14:36

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the kooyong forever quote that's going around is fake and idk why anyone felt the need to make it up when there is plenty of ridiculous stuff that's really in the affidavit

# ¿ Mar 6, 2023 02:33

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https://twitter.com/AshBarnhamNats/status/1632243820426559488

even a nats candidate was joking about it lol

# ¿ Mar 6, 2023 02:45

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I would blow Dane Cook posted:

But does making it part of the constitution prevent them from fooling around with it other ways?

it will depend on the exact wording of the constitutional amendment, but the draft one labor put forward a few months ago proposed basically only enshrining that the indigenous voice exists and that it has the ability to give advice to the government & parliament on indigenous issues etc.

so in theory a government could pass a law to say "the indigenous voice consists of scott morrison and his three best friends" if they really wanted to gently caress around with it, but in practice they'd just be able to ignore anything it says anyway

i don't think there are particularly strong yes or no arguments. i'm not really convinced it will be very effective since it has no real power and can just be ignored/practically abolished if the government wants, and the main proposed system of elections etc. for it is a real mess (though labor hasn't committed to that model or anything at all there), but i also don't think it's going to somehow be a barrier to future progress - it's not going to make indigenous activists who are demanding something better go away and i'm not sure how the referendum failing would somehow lead to a better outcome there.

# ¿ Mar 7, 2023 09:23

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the government are deeply scared that proposing a specific model will be too divisive based on the republic referendum. albanese is absolutely terrible at communicating this sort of stuff too and will sometimes answer questions on it like he has a clear idea of the details, sometimes defer to currently ongoing consultation (which, why are you campaigning before you have that consultation done?), sometimes insist that it's just about the principle and they can figure out the details afterward, and sometimes points to a proposed model which he has also refused to actually endorse

none of that is very effective at all at getting anything across to anyone, it's all a very confused approach

# ¿ Mar 7, 2023 15:35

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Don Dongington posted:

I feel it's a bit disingenuous to frame the debate as "Yes" and "No" when it's actually "voice", "treaty" and "I'm a racist turd".

The primary argument by Indigenous people who are against Voice is less that it's going to make things worse for Indigenous Australians, but more that it won't do anything to make things better. Brass tacks, it's a performative measure intended to avoid the establishment of a treaty between the Commonwealth and the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples. Not delay, but outright avoid.

Treaty requires both parties to accept the terms and sign on, which would require genuine concessions and active measures by the government to actually do SOMETHING to improve the lives of first nations people. Neither major party has any plan to do this, and if you look at their actions and policies over the past 50 years, it seems highly likely that both parties would use a Voice to parliament to legitimise their continued agenda of marginalisation - most likely by hand-picking participants who will best support the narrative that works for them.

It won't be good. I wouldn't vote no myself because that feeds an even worse narrative, but ideally the referendum should be over Voice or Treaty, not "Voice?" or "Nah, fuckem".

labor has plans to do treaty (& truth-telling) too, it's part of the uluru statement & they're going to start setting up the commission for those this year too. one certainly doesn't preclude the other.

the issue between different indigenous groups is about the order things happen in and what the objective of the treaty should be.

# ¿ Mar 8, 2023 00:46

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not sorry for ignoring the right-wingers

# ¿ Mar 8, 2023 01:36

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hooman posted:

I've never read macrobusiness before, and these are just two articles from today. I don't feel like I'm cherrypicking here.

I mean, if you're saying that Macrobusiness consistently thinks immigration is bad and will use any excuse to bash it, ok.
But the real consistent thing I see here is absolutely dogshit dogwhistle journalism.

the macrobusiness guy is a huge weirdo who called for australia to invade the solomon islands last year lol

# ¿ Mar 8, 2023 07:17

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withholding documents from the ombudsman is illegal, yes. i'd be surprised if prosecutions don't happen on that & possibly other issues

# ¿ Mar 8, 2023 08:38

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keating is wrong on a lot of things but he's correct here

# ¿ Mar 15, 2023 06:11

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wow how long has it been since IWC showed up here

# ¿ Mar 15, 2023 11:08

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the melbourne nazis have long been the most organised in the country for whatever reason, even well before covid

Recoome posted:

Like not to kick of the Interstate War II but whats with the huge TERF culture down in Melbourne/Victoria? Like it seems to infest a lot of different parties, including the Greens.

unimelb is probably something to do with it, there's a lot of prominent transphobe academics there, dating back decades

# ¿ Mar 20, 2023 10:54

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Laserface posted:

Voted grn 1 labor 2 and then 1/2/3 legalise/greens/Labor.

No democracy snag but I did get a coffee that has cleaned me out better than any zinger box ever has.

legalise cannabis's #1 candidate is an ex-green who was booted from the party after he was credibly accused of sexual assault, sexual harassment, and covering up another sexual assault within the party

# ¿ Mar 25, 2023 03:05

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# ¿ May 10, 2024 10:26

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https://twitter.com/PaulineHansonOz/status/1641323876738306048

bring on the splits

# ¿ Mar 30, 2023 10:18

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The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Auspol 2023 - fuck off Pauline

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