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This is from someone on Reddit claiming to be Jeff's wife.quote:Legally, I can't talk much about it at the moment, but NHRL went above and beyond trying to slander and disqualify Supreme Ruler and the team. We'll have more information made public soon. And then there's this from Reddit;  If they thought he was over-pinning, why didn't the refs say anything? In that last fight against Jamison, Jamison just kept driving straight at the middle of the bot, he didn't go for the other bot/minibot which I feel was the way to beat them there as that was the thing doing all the damage. Bertha the Toaster fucked around with this message at 13:24 on Nov 12, 2023 |
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Nov 12, 2023 13:21
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I mean. Much as I've usually loved Behind the Bots, the stream, and the hosts - I feel like Luke harping on Full Court and Supreme Ruler during the stream turned from funny and entertaining early on to... Well, mean-spirited and driving negativity... by the finals. I like opinionated hosts, but there's a time and place. Like - the kid who won with Full Court deserves to enjoy his victory. And it was clear he was nervous as hell. Luke having complained about his bot for the whole competition and being clearly, if more silently, exasperated about the win, was fueling the toxicity in the YouTube comments, from what I could see. Up to and including some rear end in a top hat buying a Super Chat about how the victory wasn't earned. Maybe I'm dreaming - but if the hosts had all been more positive about these meta-breaking designs yesterday and pushing for changes when in the off season, the whole thing may have gone down differently. I dunno.
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Nov 12, 2023 15:02
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What got me was them harping on about how static forks were old and how everyone is going to switch to cam lifters like Supreme Ruler was using. And then they got pissed that Supreme Ruler was being Supreme Ruler.
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Nov 12, 2023 15:14
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Two sides to every story. Here's Jeff's. https://imgur.io/a/cZ4rx0K He's likely leaving off why his teammate got expelled, though. Just not sure if that was before or after being disqualified.
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Nov 12, 2023 16:17
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dwarf74 posted:Two sides to every story. Here's Jeff's. Yeah, he's talking past whatever incident made a staff member feel unsafe. He claims it was all because of action in the fight. I dunno, seems unlikely that in-fight stuff could get you totally kicked out of the event unless like a winning bot reduced a losing bot to scrap while they were incapacitated or something. Maybe Jeff's unaware of what happened between his team and the staff? It sounds like they screamed at the staff or something along those lines.
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Nov 12, 2023 16:28
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Bertha the Toaster posted:What got me was them harping on about how static forks were old and how everyone is going to switch to cam lifters like Supreme Ruler was using. And then they got pissed that Supreme Ruler was being Supreme Ruler. Those lifters are a very cool idea. It's nice to finally know how that Ace minibot for Jackpot works, because you really couldn't tell what it was doing in the big arena. At the same time, those lifters make for extremely unentertaining fights.
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Nov 12, 2023 16:35
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No dog in this fight but who told them they were disqualified for threatening and unsportsmanlike behavior then asked to do a exhibition lol Event sounds like a shitshow on the coordinators' ends
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Nov 12, 2023 16:39
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RBA Starblade posted:No dog in this fight but who told them they were disqualified for threatening and unsportsmanlike behavior then asked to do a exhibition lol The league founder. That part doesn't make any sense either. You've spooked our staff, and they're afraid of you now, so you have to leave. Also please stay and do another fight for no money.  I don't know what NHRL's rules are for pins, but you can see the fight in question here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=live?v624a4_oY7w&t=13248s PostNouveau fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Nov 12, 2023 |
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Nov 12, 2023 16:42
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RBA Starblade posted:No dog in this fight but who told them they were disqualified for threatening and unsportsmanlike behavior then asked to do a exhibition lol * This one guy is expelled from the event * You're responsible for him, so this disqualifies your team. * The rest of you can stick around if you want and do this exhibition thing. Step 3 feels kind of out of touch, lol
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Nov 12, 2023 17:07
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PostNouveau posted:Those lifters are a very cool idea. It's nice to finally know how that Ace minibot for Jackpot works, because you really couldn't tell what it was doing in the big arena. I hope they don't make a rule against them, because they are the hard counter to the ground game that we've needed. Imagine a bot like Yeti, those forks would've done nothing. I want the lifters to at least make the ground scraping bots think twice. As for the pinning rule, I tried looking but couldn't really find anything on it. If you count lifting a bot as pinning then he probably was doing it before the 3 seconds had elapsed. But is that really any different than driving a wedge bot under the opponent?
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Nov 12, 2023 17:10
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Please come get your bot destroyed for zero chance of prize money. You gotta pay for the parts at least, NHRL, come on now. If the pin rule is 3 seconds of disengagement before the next pin, he was not doing that against Silent Spring. The ref should really give him instructions in the moment though.
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Nov 12, 2023 17:11
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The "if this happened in a restaurant" part seems especially ridiculous. It didn't happen at a restaurant, it happened at a professional sporting event. Coaches and players yelling at officials about calls they don't like is a standard thing that happens in every sport, and in any other sport it would be unconscionable to DQ an entire team before the finals because one person got heated.
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Nov 12, 2023 17:11
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Bertha the Toaster posted:I hope they don't make a rule against them, because they are the hard counter to the ground game that we've needed. Imagine a bot like Yeti, those forks would've done nothing. I want the lifters to at least make the ground scraping bots think twice. It would be great with a kinetic weapon, but now you're talking about trying to get a third motor into a bot and still make weight.
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Nov 12, 2023 17:17
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is pepsi ok posted:The "if this happened in a restaurant" part seems especially ridiculous. It didn't happen at a restaurant, it happened at a professional sporting event. Coaches and players yelling at officials about calls they don't like is a standard thing that happens in every sport, and in any other sport it would be unconscionable to DQ an entire team before the finals because one person got heated. Nah, I've been part of hackspaces, which have similar demographics and culture to these events, I'd imagine. It's not a sports game*, it's a bunch of sweaty nerds, and you gotta stamp out lovely behaviour quick, or it'll gently caress up your culture. There's no winning for the administration that has to do the banning, either. It invariably leads to butthurt and conspiracy theories as we've already seen in this thread. But it's the least bad option, and you'll lose a lot more really good people if you don't. "why do you think that's acceptable in sports games too? Just because it's the status quo doesn't mean it should be okay
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Nov 12, 2023 17:27
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ante posted:Nah, I've been part of hackspaces, which have similar demographics and culture to these events, I'd imagine. Because it's an inherent part of competition. Like I'm sorry but the notion that nearly every sport has a hosed up culture because competitive people get heated is just silly. Edit: or I guess you can just DQ any team that has someone get emotional and see what kind of culture that gets you is pepsi ok fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Nov 12, 2023 |
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Nov 12, 2023 17:31
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is pepsi ok posted:Because it's an inherent part of competition. Like I'm sorry but the notion that nearly every sport has a hosed up culture because competitive people get heated is just silly. Are you minimising threats of physical violence lol
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Nov 12, 2023 17:37
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ante posted:Are you minimising threats of physical violence lol The restaurant quip there makes it sound like they got loud, not that they threatened anyone. That's not being asked to leave the restaurant - that's calling the cops.
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Nov 12, 2023 17:41
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You can't run an event like that without a bunch of staff, and most of them are probably doing it for a love of the game rather than whatever they're getting paid. They shouldn't have to put up with threats or screaming or anything like that. And lots of sports have hosed up cultures, but there isn't a one where you can get away with treating the staff badly. You go too far with a ref at a football game, you're getting tossed.
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Nov 12, 2023 17:41
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PostNouveau posted:You can't run an event like that without a bunch of staff, and most of them are probably doing it for a love of the game rather than whatever they're getting paid. They shouldn't have to put up with threats or screaming or anything like that. Yeah. Either toss the offending person and the team keeps playing, or eject the team. The event hosed up asking them to keep going.
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Nov 12, 2023 17:44
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Bad decisions made in the heat of the moment, nonsensical justifications afterwards, sounds like a sport  The problem here is that it was one guy deciding and it needs to be more than one guy deciding. Even if it's still a bad decision at least more than one person can cross-check the information. NHRL to me seems to be suffering from a lack of crew resource management, too much hierarchy, not enough team. No one to challenge the founders decision or at least point out that ejecting the SL team and subsequently asking them to join the rumble isn't exactly A1 decisionmaking. And it probably goes deeper than that in the organization. This should be a teachable moment. edit: Just rewatching the end of the match where Supreme Ruler beat Silent Spring and Kyle is literally being the Dog in Everything's Fine, completely petulant because the Wrong Bot Won. ewe2 fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Nov 12, 2023 |
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Nov 12, 2023 20:32
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is pepsi ok posted:Because it's an inherent part of competition. Like I'm sorry but the notion that nearly every sport has a hosed up culture because competitive people get heated is just silly. Intense competition is the exception.
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Nov 12, 2023 20:38
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Sorry for the double post. But here's some details. It deals directly with the "punched badge" issue. https://www.reddit.com/r/NHRL/s/uZ4aKILAHf quote:Update posted this morning: dwarf74 fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Nov 12, 2023 |
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Nov 12, 2023 22:34
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dwarf74 posted:Sorry for the double post. But here's some details. That's helpful. The initial issue was worthy of investigation, but I don't understand how it would have been collusion.
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Nov 13, 2023 19:20
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Yeah that account makes sense of a lot of it. It sounds like they never did get to the bottom of the alleged collusion to hide demerits, and it was pretty tone deaf of them to ask Supreme Ruler to fight a finals they couldn't get prize money from. But all the rest of it sounds reasonable.
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Nov 13, 2023 19:32
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The Modern Leper posted:That's helpful. The initial issue was worthy of investigation, but I don't understand how it would have been collusion. But... Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this sticker covering another hole punch? It definitely looks like it to me anyways. Or are there other punches for other purposes? 
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Nov 13, 2023 19:48
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I assume the hole punch is the one on the left, if so that's much bigger than the sticker.
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Nov 13, 2023 22:55
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Bertha the Toaster posted:This is from someone on Reddit claiming to be Jeff's wife. I kinda thought he wasn't backing away far enough at the start, but it became extremely evident over the course of the fight that silent spring could not move for poo poo. I don't know if the flamethrower actually burned the legs on the walker enough that it couldn't get any traction, or if it just was a drive train issue in general, but supreme ruler couldve backed away to the other side of the arena and waited a full 20 seconds and silent spring probably wouldn't do much
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Nov 15, 2023 01:10
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Bertha the Toaster posted:I assume the hole punch is the one on the left, if so that's much bigger than the sticker. Yeah. I also feel like trying to move a 'safety inspection pass' sticker is almost way too stupid for someone to think of doing. I don't know if that's naive of me, but it makes more sense trying to just hide the badge that got the initial demerit. Though this begs the question why they're spreading demerits across multiple team badges if the culmination of demerits result in an expulsion. If there's code of conduct stuff wherein you can toss an individual team member, and not the whole team, it makes sense. But if everyone's representing the team, and an individual's code of conduct violation reflects the entire team, there should only be one badge (team captain) that you actually punch.
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Nov 15, 2023 01:22
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NHRL 2024 rules just dropped. I am not a roboticist but it looks like they're un-loopholing a few loopholes - mainly around weight limit stacking and MAYBE to the not-really-weapons one? --- Here are the major rule changes impacting bot design for 2024! These rule changes affect bot builds, so we are releasing them now. We will release other rule changes soon, but none of those changes will affect your bot build. They will be more about how we run registration, qualifying, and tournaments in 2024. The descriptions below are summaries. For more details, go to the wiki: https://wiki.nhrl.io/wiki/index.php/2024_Bot_Design_Rule_Changes. We will have a new rulebook later in the year, but we wanted to release these rule changes now so that you can build towards them. We know that we are releasing these rule changes after many of you have begun designing your bots for January. We appreciate your patience, and hope that your design for January is smooth! **WEIGHT BONUS UPDATES** * We will still have our weight bonuses for Non-Traditional Locomotion (NTL) and for multibots. However, we are reducing the maximum total weight for each weight class. Even with both bonuses, a total bot entry may not weigh more than this. * For 3lb, a total bot entry may not weigh more than 5 lbs. * For 12lb, a total bot entry may not weigh more than 20 lbs. * For 30lb, a total bot entry may not weigh more than 50 lbs. * Additionally, some of our weight bonuses are changing. * For 3lb, the NTL bonus is going down to 1.5 lbs. * For 30lb, the Multibot bonus is going up to 12 lbs. * At least 51% of the weight of a multibot must be on bots with active weapons. **WEAPON SYSTEM WEIGHT DISPENSATIONS** Any bots with hydraulic-, pneumatic- or ICE-powered weapons systems will be weighed “dry” (without fuel). **CLARIFY “ACTIVE WEAPON” DEFINITION** For a weapon to be active, it must be independently operated from the drive system of the robot, and clearly be designed to influence the opposing robot. NHRL safety inspectors will determine whether a weapon is an active weapon as part of the safety inspection process. **JUDGING CRITERIA CHANGES** * We will update our judging criteria to specify that multibot damage is averaged across all bots. This is a change from how we currently judge, where we make small modifications for the damage to a multibot. * If a bot successfully pins their opponent but is unable to release the pin without house bot intervention, this counts against their overall control score. * In a situation where Bot A pins one multibot segment of Bot B, it would gain control points. If another segment of Bot B were to attempt to pin Bot A into the already pinned portion of Bot B, that does not gain control points. * If a bot or any portion of a multibot spends a significant portion of the fight avoiding engagement, this will negatively impact the entry’s overall aggression score. * To the degree practical, the overall aggression score for a multibot should be the average of the scores assigned to each individual segment. * There will be a few other criteria changes that will be announced along with tournament rule changes. Here are some other changes that we’re making. Please go to the wiki page to read more about them. https://wiki.nhrl.io/wiki/index.php/2024_Bot_Design_Rule_Changes * Increased sanctions for deliberate arena fouling. (Glitter/bubbles/confetti are not considered arena fouling.) * More defined weapon lock rules * Safety-limited fuels (like flamethrower fuel) aren’t considered damage when they run out * No more weight tolerance for overweight bots * Minibots no longer have a special distinction - all bots with minibots are considered multibots
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Nov 15, 2023 18:30
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dwarf74 posted:
Did they mean to ban Meltybrain bots? Because I feel like that's happened.
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Nov 15, 2023 18:45
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El Fideo posted:Did they mean to ban Meltybrain bots? Because I feel like that's happened.
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Nov 15, 2023 19:02
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El Fideo posted:Did they mean to ban Meltybrain bots? Because I feel like that's happened. No, there's more to the rules than what dwarf posted. "Any bot that uses its weapon as its drive (torque drive, bristle drive, gyro walker, etc.) are permitted, as are meltybrains. Thwackbots are still not permitted, unless they have some sort of active weapon."
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Nov 15, 2023 19:04
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SLICK GOKU BABY posted:No, there's more to the rules than what dwarf posted. 
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Nov 15, 2023 19:05
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dwarf74 posted:I just copied from the post in the Discord Oh, well then the person that put the rules in the discord left some stuff out
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Nov 15, 2023 19:11
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The discord post was covering changes to the rules, not the full ruleset, so stuff that didn't change (but was related to/closely followed the changed text) wasn't included.
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Nov 15, 2023 20:04
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It doesn't seem like they came down as hard on the uber-control bots as people thought they would.
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Nov 15, 2023 20:09
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PostNouveau posted:It doesn't seem like they came down as hard on the uber-control bots as people thought they would. Yeah, I think there's a perception that NHRL doesn't like control bots, which isn't the case at all.
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Nov 15, 2023 20:26
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MikeNCR posted:Yeah, I think there's a perception that NHRL doesn't like control bots, which isn't the case at all. People maybe think the broadcast team being snarky about control bots making for bad TV means the whole organization doesn't like them. And that dude's got a point on the broadcasts, but NHRL also seems to have a culture of encouraging builders to try out new designs.
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Nov 15, 2023 20:43
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Was there a case of deliberate arena fouling that prompted that change? I remember the Valkyrie driver's bot carved a really rad 3/4 circle in one of the floors but I can't remember anybody messing anything up on purpose.
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Nov 16, 2023 02:31
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AtraMorS posted:Was there a case of deliberate arena fouling that prompted that change? I remember the Valkyrie driver's bot carved a really rad 3/4 circle in one of the floors but I can't remember anybody messing anything up on purpose.
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Nov 16, 2023 03:00
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