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fart simpson posted:presumably you still go to work for a company and produce things for a society which empowers all those people you dont want to help. if the guys writing inkscape have decided they value giving inkscape away so that a bunch of nerds can have fun making their crappy vector art outweighs the risk that an evil person might create some crappy vector art, they might be right so like are you still just posting or what
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Dec 14, 2022 04:34
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RokosCockatrice posted:Oh. So this is like a union-y thing. not really?
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Dec 14, 2022 04:35
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rotor unsure when he can draw his katana
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Dec 14, 2022 04:35
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fart simpson posted:its easy in the sense of, contributing nothing of value to society solves all these same problems. just be a gutterpunk, its easy. like just not sharing code is one choice. There's also the choice of retaining copyright over it and selling it like normal professions do, perhaps offering friends and family deeply discounted or free copies. There's a wide range of shades of grey between "just let anyone use the product of your labor for any reason at all" and "dont do anything at all"
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Dec 14, 2022 04:37
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RokosCockatrice posted:I think as long as we all agree Affero GPL is the worst rotor posted:there are no good open sources licences but the gpl is the least awful
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Dec 14, 2022 04:39
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aw frig aw dang it posted:rotor unsure when he can draw his katana i mean like i dont wanna get all effortposty without reason here, this is yospos
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Dec 14, 2022 04:39
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as if the nine fuckin pages werent enough
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Dec 14, 2022 04:40
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rotor posted:so like are you still just posting or what no, im saying i dont think your problem #1 as it applies to software makes sense to me as a major concern
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Dec 14, 2022 05:11
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fart simpson posted:no, im saying i dont think your problem #1 as it applies to software makes sense to me as a major concern Ok. So imagine you're Eugen, the guy who wrote mastodon. You've worked on it for like 15 years at this point and its starting to be successful. Then at some point, a couple maga chuds showed up, forked his code and used his work to build Truth Social and there's not a drat thing Eugen, who is pretty socially forward-thinking and very much not a chud, can do about it except be mad. Do you think maybe he's having second thoughts about just giving his work away? Do you think you would if you were in his position?
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Dec 14, 2022 05:15
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so another hypothetical: Imagine you're a major contributor to OpenCV and you find out that Boston Dynamics is using your work to not only enrich themselves with billion dollar DoD contracts but the robots are also clearly combat robots.
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Dec 14, 2022 05:17
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if mastodon wasnt open sores nobody would be using it which is yet another strike against open sores
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Dec 14, 2022 05:18
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Shaggar posted:if mastodon wasnt open sores nobody would be using it which is yet another strike against open sores hi shagger, how ya doin
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Dec 14, 2022 05:18
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im good, unlike open sores software!
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Dec 14, 2022 05:19
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Shaggar posted:im good, unlike open sores software! aw get outta here you big lug!
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Dec 14, 2022 05:20
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another hypothetical might be what happened to me, where you gradually start to realize that your work is being used by the echelon system that later became known as PRISM that is in fact tracing everyones phone calls for the nsa. of course in my situation it was the commercial software I was paid to write, but the hypothetical is/was just as real for a lot of people.
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Dec 14, 2022 05:21
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linux almost certainly powers the most dystopian government projects across the globe
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Dec 14, 2022 05:31
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Shaggar posted:linux almost certainly powers the most dystopian government projects across the globe  
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Dec 14, 2022 05:35
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its probably an ironic KDE skin
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Dec 14, 2022 05:36
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rotor posted:Ok. So imagine you're Eugen, the guy who wrote mastodon. You've worked on it for like 15 years at this point and its starting to be successful. Then at some point, a couple maga chuds showed up, forked his code and used his work to build Truth Social and there's not a drat thing Eugen, who is pretty socially forward-thinking and very much not a chud, can do about it except be mad. no, im not arguing against your general idea. i dont like the mit and apache etc licenses and i think your idea of figuring out a way to charge businesses for licensing is a good one. im saying your point #1 is not a software industry problem, it's a general "we live in a society" problem as evidenced by: rotor posted:another hypothetical might be what happened to me, where you gradually start to realize that your work is being used by the echelon system that later became known as PRISM that is in fact tracing everyones phone calls for the nsa. software licensing isnt fixing that problem and its not really a primary enabler of bad behavior
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Dec 14, 2022 05:37
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post hole digger posted:lending my support to this thread, as i strongly believe we need more manifestos posted in yospos
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Dec 14, 2022 05:41
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fart simpson posted:software licensing isnt fixing that problem and its not really a primary enabler of bad behavior it "fixes" it by you not contributing your labor to an evil enterprise. If enough people do it, being evil will be harder, and even if people are still doing evil deeds, which they obviously will be, at least you wont be a party to it.
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Dec 14, 2022 05:49
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just fork the GPL and make sure that nobody connected to richard stallman or the FSF can ever be involved in its maintenance and promotion
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Dec 14, 2022 05:49
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i like it when my software is used for nefarious purposes because im basically the bad guy from that movie you like
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Dec 14, 2022 05:51
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also my software is free but i get hella paid regardless
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Dec 14, 2022 05:51
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RokosCockatrice posted:I think as long as we all agree Affero GPL is the worst this will have been a productive discussion. no that's the best one
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Dec 14, 2022 05:53
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imagine if you cooked some cookies and some punk rear end kids ate them and then went and murdered an old lady if your cookies directly fuelled the bang on the boomer .. do you gloat to your friends ??
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Dec 14, 2022 05:57
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rotor posted:it "fixes" it by you not contributing your labor to an evil enterprise. If enough people do it, being evil will be harder, and even if people are still doing evil deeds, which they obviously will be, at least you wont be a party to it. go ahead and refuse to license your personal software project to evilcorp, good idea. but you will still be a party to people doing evil deeds. at work, paying taxes to the us government, whatever. the problems are structural and need structural solutions. like this: Shaggar posted:linux almost certainly powers the most dystopian government projects across the globe everything powers these government projects. steel, food, energy, trade, linux, windows, whatever. opposition to those kinds of problems (government and individual evil) is fine and good but making it your #1 priority is no way to live your life and you wont convince many people to agree with you by arguing it as your top priority
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Dec 14, 2022 05:58
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fart simpson posted:go ahead and refuse to license your personal software project to evilcorp, good idea. but you will still be a party to people doing evil deeds. at work, paying taxes to the us government, whatever. the problems are structural and need structural solutions. yeah i dont really think i was proposing that software trusts could turn the earth into a utopia, banishing evil from throughout our lands.
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Dec 14, 2022 06:06
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i think your points #2 and #3 are the real argument is all
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Dec 14, 2022 06:08
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cowboy beepboop posted:no that's the best one agpl and cc0 are the only two licenses anyone needs one for if you care wtf people do with your poo poo and one for if you dont e: the big issue i see with poo poo like software trusts is that in this future proprietary world most software copyrights are going to be owned by tech giants, not human beings with morals when clang goes poof and google retargets its full time clang developers to make a new proprietary c++ compiler, that ip is going to be owned by goog and not by the developers who worked on it. then some mom and pop shop who just want a working compiler without writing their own are gonna have to agree to software-trust terms like "ad targeting is awesome, i promise to never obstruct user data harvesting" RPATDO_LAMD fucked around with this message at 07:54 on Dec 14, 2022 |
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Dec 14, 2022 07:43
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fart simpson posted:go ahead and refuse to license your personal software project to evilcorp, good idea. but you will still be a party to people doing evil deeds. at work, paying taxes to the us government, whatever. the problems are structural and need structural solutions. like this: so do nothing to avoid evil since you can't avoid all evil anyway, check, makes sense.
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Dec 14, 2022 11:07
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:so do nothing to avoid evil since you can't avoid all evil anyway, check, makes sense. i also cant read,
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Dec 14, 2022 11:29
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fart simpson posted:i also cant read, felt a bit of exaggaration was needed because your main point is so incredibly mundane
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Dec 14, 2022 11:35
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:felt a bit of exaggaration was needed because your main point is so incredibly mundane my main point is that i think rotor should cut that section out and focus on the other two
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Dec 14, 2022 11:36
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fart simpson posted:my main point is that i think rotor should cut that section out and focus on the other two that's your conclusion, your mundane point is a round of whattaboutism on evil in society.
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Dec 14, 2022 11:40
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:that's your conclusion, your mundane point is a round of whattaboutism on evil in society. no
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Dec 14, 2022 11:47
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idk why people feel obligated to release code for free. you’re doing the world a favor by not releasing code. stallman is an entitled creep that’s still on the fsf board, which is an argument on its own. he seems to be perpetually confused about the concept of “consent” and for some hosed up reason people accept this. it’s real cool and good when a megacorp asks me to submit a pr for an issue, when they make fucktons off of it. but i should be grateful to contribute for some reason. license talk is fuckin dumb because what are you gonna do as an individual? sue? lmao. just release the source or don’t. don’t get me going about bug bounties
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Dec 14, 2022 13:41
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post hole digger posted:just write really bad software that no one else would want to use. problem solved, can you believe that they pay me to do this??
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Dec 14, 2022 13:47
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getting paid to write bad software no one uses right now man I wish we had users
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Dec 14, 2022 15:02
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us taxpayers pay for my bad software actually what i write is good
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Dec 14, 2022 15:07
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