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Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012

Kefa posted:

Finally decided to return to Wo Long to play all the DLC. So far the first DLC gives off weird vibes. On the one hand, the combat is still amazing and is the reason why I essentially was able to ignore most of the game's issues, on the other hand the levels are hilariously short with checkpoints everywhere. The first two bosses were piss easy too, so I'm currently looking forward to that DLC 2 boss you've been talking about here. But overall I'm glad to be back.

I think it's mostly just the first level of DLC 1 that's extra-short. Most of the rest are full-length.

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Kefa
Jul 14, 2023

Darth Walrus posted:

I think it's mostly just the first level of DLC 1 that's extra-short. Most of the rest are full-length.

Okay good then. Probably won’t do NG+ runs thanks to the morale system but plan to complete all the dlc

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
Tips for future DLC stuff:

* The final boss of DLC 1 is basically a slightly slower and beefier version of demon Liu Bei. Note that the red attack he fires from his tail when he's up in the air shoots twice in a row in the early stages of the fight, and three times in the later stages. It's like demon Lu Bu's fireball-tennis attack. The move where he hovers in the air and summons slow-moving, non-homing whirlwinds is an invite for you to punish him with ranged wizardry and/or your projectile weapons. Just stand in a safe area and let rip. Apart from all that, he's a challenging but conventional boss who you can get past with good fundamentals.

* Gan Ning is all about attacking you with an endless barrage of red attacks that hit hard and often have ambiguous telegraphs. Kite him at medium range so his fast, short-ranged attacks miss and you can parry and counter his slower, long-ranged attacks. Trying to play against him aggressively is a swift trip to the grave.

* For human Taishi Ci, learn to parry his variable-length arrow barrages. They're both his most powerful regular attack and his biggest vulnerability - he offers his biggest and safest opening after he finishes a barrage with a triple homing arrow burst (or ends it with a single normal shot rather than firing multiple arrows in succession) and slowly draws his sword. His melee attacks, on the other hand, tend to be very unsafe to punish because he can cancel most of them by backflipping and starting his arrow barrage. Try to stay at mid-range - close enough to punish a barrage, but far enough away to back off from one of his melee combos (especially when he summons his Divine Beast and coats his sword in frost, which he will do often - it makes him immune to staggering and causes him to hit vastly harder).

* For demon Taishi Ci, earth spells and frost resistance are incredibly useful, but he's doable - if extremely hard - if you haven't built your character that way. His easiest windows are with his various vertical jump attacks, like his linear shockwave, his spinning buzzsaw dive, and his phase 2 sword-rain-summoning slam. His regular melee combos are very unsafe to punish (especially in his second phase, where they deal ice damage and Frostbite buildup), because he can extend them to up to triple the standard length. If you can run away from them rather than blocking or deflecting them in phase 2, do so.

* For all large demon bosses in the three DLCs, the stagger mechanic on polearms (staves, spears, halberds, and glaives) is incredibly useful. It's a special status effect that lets you stunlock enemies for a certain period of time once you build it up by landing enough hits, and offers you a huge window in which to apply spirit/HP damage and elemental status effects. Equip whatever polearm scales best with your stats and enjoy.

Kefa
Jul 14, 2023

Darth Walrus posted:

Tips for future DLC stuff:

* The final boss of DLC 1 is basically a slightly slower and beefier version of demon Liu Bei. Note that the red attack he fires from his tail when he's up in the air shoots twice in a row in the early stages of the fight, and three times in the later stages. It's like demon Lu Bu's fireball-tennis attack. The move where he hovers in the air and summons slow-moving, non-homing whirlwinds is an invite for you to punish him with ranged wizardry and/or your projectile weapons. Just stand in a safe area and let rip. Apart from all that, he's a challenging but conventional boss who you can get past with good fundamentals.

* Gan Ning is all about attacking you with an endless barrage of red attacks that hit hard and often have ambiguous telegraphs. Kite him at medium range so his fast, short-ranged attacks miss and you can parry and counter his slower, long-ranged attacks. Trying to play against him aggressively is a swift trip to the grave.

* For human Taishi Ci, learn to parry his variable-length arrow barrages. They're both his most powerful regular attack and his biggest vulnerability - he offers his biggest and safest opening after he finishes a barrage with a triple homing arrow burst (or ends it with a single normal shot rather than firing multiple arrows in succession) and slowly draws his sword. His melee attacks, on the other hand, tend to be very unsafe to punish because he can cancel most of them by backflipping and starting his arrow barrage. Try to stay at mid-range - close enough to punish a barrage, but far enough away to back off from one of his melee combos (especially when he summons his Divine Beast and coats his sword in frost, which he will do often - it makes him immune to staggering and causes him to hit vastly harder).

* For demon Taishi Ci, earth spells and frost resistance are incredibly useful, but he's doable - if extremely hard - if you haven't built your character that way. His easiest windows are with his various vertical jump attacks, like his linear shockwave, his spinning buzzsaw dive, and his phase 2 sword-rain-summoning slam. His regular melee combos are very unsafe to punish (especially in his second phase, where they deal ice damage and Frostbite buildup), because he can extend them to up to triple the standard length. If you can run away from them rather than blocking or deflecting them in phase 2, do so.

* For all large demon bosses in the three DLCs, the stagger mechanic on polearms (staves, spears, halberds, and glaives) is incredibly useful. It's a special status effect that lets you stunlock enemies for a certain period of time once you build it up by landing enough hits, and offers you a huge window in which to apply spirit/HP damage and elemental status effects. Equip whatever polearm scales best with your stats and enjoy.

Thanks, will come back to this if I end up struggling with any of the bosses.

Kefa
Jul 14, 2023

Just finished the first DLC. Honestly, it's way better than I expected. Doesn't fix any of the issues people complained about but I was okay with them in the main game so more of the same good combat is good enough for me.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012

Kefa posted:

Just finished the first DLC. Honestly, it's way better than I expected. Doesn't fix any of the issues people complained about but I was okay with them in the main game so more of the same good combat is good enough for me.

How did Demon Dian Wei treat you, just out of idle curiosity?

I felt like DLC 2 was the most aggressively overtuned, although players who have Earth as a primary virtue may disagree (since two out of three of the real bastard bosses use Water/ice).

Tips for DLC 3:

* The Shuyao isn't too bad, but remember that (a) you'll want to regularly reposition to avoid her Metal gas clouds dissolving you, and (b) she can sometimes follow up her spinning swipe red attack with a second, more dangerous vertical grab red attack, so keep your finger on the deflection button.

* Yuan Shu is a tough guy with high all-around status resistances, so you're encouraged to stay close as much as you can in order to keep deflecting his sword attacks and piling on the health, spirit, and status damage. His Wood/lightning attacks in both phases are the easiest to exploit, keeping him close and offering particularly large windows for you to punish. In particular, his huge, sweeping lightning lawnmower move in his second phase is way more of a gift than it seems - it's angled, so stay behind him and most of it will simply go over your head while you pile on the hurt. Weapons, martial arts, and spells with reach will make punishing him when he does this even safer. One important word of warning - he has a new red attack in his second phase that has huge range, comes out fast, and has little telegraphing while doing substantial damage and inflicting all five elemental status effects. Learning to reliably deflect this is vital if you want to bring him down.

* Guan Yu's duel is like a cross between fighting human Lu Bu and Gan Ning, with similarly relentless aggression and a large arsenal of powerful red attacks with variable speed and range. In addition, he can counter big moves like your spirit attacks, martial arts, and even Divine Beast summons with a red attack of his own, although don't despair - you can still deflect this if you tap the button fast. I suggest fighting him similarly to Gan Ning, kiting him at medium range in order to punish his gap-closers and avoid as many of his dangerous close-ranged attacks as possible. Waiting for his Divine Beast buffs (which he'll use frequently, but only at health-gates, not time-gates) to wear off so you can more safely block/deflect his regular attacks is also a reasonable play.

Darth Walrus fucked around with this message at 13:05 on Mar 1, 2024

Kefa
Jul 14, 2023

Darth Walrus posted:

How did Demon Dian Wei treat you, just out of idle curiosity?

Not too bad. I thought it was a cool boss. I actually died to it a couple of times near the end on purpose so I can have a more clean run with less hits taken. I unfortunately haven’t parried that one red move where he jumps really high as I would always end up too far away from him. Wonder what that looks like but in my “clean” run he didn’t even do it.

Heithinn Grasida
Mar 28, 2005

...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...

Darth Walrus posted:

Tips for future DLC stuff:

* The final boss of DLC 1 is basically a slightly slower and beefier version of demon Liu Bei. Note that the red attack he fires from his tail when he's up in the air shoots twice in a row in the early stages of the fight, and three times in the later stages. It's like demon Lu Bu's fireball-tennis attack. The move where he hovers in the air and summons slow-moving, non-homing whirlwinds is an invite for you to punish him with ranged wizardry and/or your projectile weapons. Just stand in a safe area and let rip. Apart from all that, he's a challenging but conventional boss who you can get past with good fundamentals.

* Gan Ning is all about attacking you with an endless barrage of red attacks that hit hard and often have ambiguous telegraphs. Kite him at medium range so his fast, short-ranged attacks miss and you can parry and counter his slower, long-ranged attacks. Trying to play against him aggressively is a swift trip to the grave.

* For human Taishi Ci, learn to parry his variable-length arrow barrages. They're both his most powerful regular attack and his biggest vulnerability - he offers his biggest and safest opening after he finishes a barrage with a triple homing arrow burst (or ends it with a single normal shot rather than firing multiple arrows in succession) and slowly draws his sword. His melee attacks, on the other hand, tend to be very unsafe to punish because he can cancel most of them by backflipping and starting his arrow barrage. Try to stay at mid-range - close enough to punish a barrage, but far enough away to back off from one of his melee combos (especially when he summons his Divine Beast and coats his sword in frost, which he will do often - it makes him immune to staggering and causes him to hit vastly harder).

* For demon Taishi Ci, earth spells and frost resistance are incredibly useful, but he's doable - if extremely hard - if you haven't built your character that way. His easiest windows are with his various vertical jump attacks, like his linear shockwave, his spinning buzzsaw dive, and his phase 2 sword-rain-summoning slam. His regular melee combos are very unsafe to punish (especially in his second phase, where they deal ice damage and Frostbite buildup), because he can extend them to up to triple the standard length. If you can run away from them rather than blocking or deflecting them in phase 2, do so.

* For all large demon bosses in the three DLCs, the stagger mechanic on polearms (staves, spears, halberds, and glaives) is incredibly useful. It's a special status effect that lets you stunlock enemies for a certain period of time once you build it up by landing enough hits, and offers you a huge window in which to apply spirit/HP damage and elemental status effects. Equip whatever polearm scales best with your stats and enjoy.

I found the dlc 3 boss harder than any of the dlc 2 ones, though human and demon Taishi Cis are both bastards, and Gan Ning is a major rear end in a top hat when you can’t stagger him. But the dlc 3 final boss’s critical blow is actually easy to deflect once you know what to do. It’s really fast, but he only uses it when you’re relatively close, so just press the button as soon as you see the red light and it will deflect. By comparison, after fighting Shu Yao over and over in the 1000 mile journey, I think I successfully deflected the super delayed slam critical all of 1 time.

I actually found it easy to keep super distant from the dlc 3 end boss and punish only after the critical or after he closed and did an easily avoidable attack. The arena is huge, so you can avoid almost everything he does with spacing.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012

Heithinn Grasida posted:

I found the dlc 3 boss harder than any of the dlc 2 ones, though human and demon Taishi Cis are both bastards, and Gan Ning is a major rear end in a top hat when you can’t stagger him. But the dlc 3 final boss’s critical blow is actually easy to deflect once you know what to do. It’s really fast, but he only uses it when you’re relatively close, so just press the button as soon as you see the red light and it will deflect. By comparison, after fighting Shu Yao over and over in the 1000 mile journey, I think I successfully deflected the super delayed slam critical all of 1 time.

I actually found it easy to keep super distant from the dlc 3 end boss and punish only after the critical or after he closed and did an easily avoidable attack. The arena is huge, so you can avoid almost everything he does with spacing.

I personally found that Yuan Shu can wear you down better at range than you can wear down him. Staying close lets you pile on sustained hurt and build up your Spirit for useful stuff while forcing him to use his less dangerous and more predictable attacks (including his slow red vertical chop, which is an absolute gift once you get the timing down). And yeah, his phase 2 critical blow really does have scary range - I've seen him follow up his projectile attacks with it multiple times.

Darth Walrus fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Mar 1, 2024

Kefa
Jul 14, 2023

‎Taishi Ci was such a fun boss. In general the bosses in the DLC have been amazing so far. Really cool designs and animations.
I'm much happier with the second DLC too, the locations look much better visually and exploration is more interesting due to the verticality.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012

Kefa posted:

‎Taishi Ci was such a fun boss. In general the bosses in the DLC have been amazing so far. Really cool designs and animations.
I'm much happier with the second DLC too, the locations look much better visually and exploration is more interesting due to the verticality.

Ah, but which Taishi Ci?

Kefa
Jul 14, 2023

Darth Walrus posted:

Ah, but which Taishi Ci?

The second one where he’s a demon and has two phases.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012

Kefa posted:

The second one where he’s a demon and has two phases.

So, what strategy did you take against the DLC 2 bosses? I confess that mine was probably shaped by playing as a Water/Wood medium skirmisher.

Kefa
Jul 14, 2023

Darth Walrus posted:

So, what strategy did you take against the DLC 2 bosses? I confess that mine was probably shaped by playing as a Water/Wood medium skirmisher.

I don’t really have one, I just parry and attack lol. As for the build I use drought demon blade with all other stats boosting my fire dmg and dmg against enemies on fire. There’s probably a way to make it an even better build but I’m terrible at min maxing unless I just follow a YouTube guide. Which weapon/build did you use?

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012

Kefa posted:

I don’t really have one, I just parry and attack lol. As for the build I use drought demon blade with all other stats boosting my fire dmg and dmg against enemies on fire. There’s probably a way to make it an even better build but I’m terrible at min maxing unless I just follow a YouTube guide. Which weapon/build did you use?

I've been mainly using Liu Bei's set (plus whatever other weapon with strong Wood/Water scaling seems decent at the time) as I progress through the difficulties. It's been adequate enough for everything demanded of it. Currently on Part 3 of Dragon King.

Heithinn Grasida
Mar 28, 2005

...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...

Darth Walrus posted:

I've been mainly using Liu Bei's set (plus whatever other weapon with strong Wood/Water scaling seems decent at the time) as I progress through the difficulties. It's been adequate enough for everything demanded of it. Currently on Part 3 of Dragon King.

If you switch to a stronger end game set you’ll feel a huge difference. Queen’s and King’s in particular are game changing without needing a really specialized build. Pangu is also supposed to be super strong and can be used to kill any dragon king boss in one hit, but I’ve never used it and it might require optimized gear.

Kefa
Jul 14, 2023

Darth Walrus posted:

I've been mainly using Liu Bei's set (plus whatever other weapon with strong Wood/Water scaling seems decent at the time) as I progress through the difficulties. It's been adequate enough for everything demanded of it. Currently on Part 3 of Dragon King.

I probably won’t be doing NG+ in this game because of the moral system, don’t feel like clearing the levels fully again. Unless it’s fun in coop, then I may give it a try.

With that being said I do like the moral system on the first play through, feels like a great incentive to explore the levels.

Kefa
Jul 14, 2023

The first boss of the third DLC kind of sucks. I did not like fighting her even though it didn't too many tries.
DLC 2 was pretty much perfect though. I liked the areas and the bosses.

Also changed my build to a Dire Tiger sword and set, https://wolong.wiki.fextralife.com/Dire+Tiger. The skills on that sword are just too fun to skip.

Calidus
Oct 31, 2011

Stand back I'm going to try science!
Cowboy isn’t impressed with Ronin, this makes me said as we have similar feelings about Nioh 2 and Wo Long.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFYFfzW-yO4

Kefa
Jul 14, 2023

Calidus posted:

Cowboy isn’t impressed with Ronin, this makes me said as we have similar feelings about Nioh 2 and Wo Long.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFYFfzW-yO4

poo poo. I would honestly ignore all the cons of the game if he said the combat is awesome as Team Ninja can at least excel at that but what he's saying does not sound good at all.

I finished the DLC for Wo Long btw, including all the side missions. I had fun personally, even though I understand the criticism towards that game too.

lih
May 15, 2013

Just a friendly reminder of what it looks like.

We'll do punctuation later.
hmm he's mostly just disappointed that the combat is more streamlined (at least early on) and doesn't have the same depth as nioh or even wo long or stranger of paradise. that's an understandable reason to be disappointed but i loved the combat in nioh 2 without really getting super deep into the intricacies of it - i tended to just rely on one stance and a few specific combos, rather really than pushing things to their limits, so maybe i'll still find rise of the ronin to be fine.

i can completely agree with him wishing they'd just made nioh 3 though, it doesn't seem like it's a particularly interesting take on the open world formula or anything.

lih fucked around with this message at 04:28 on Mar 12, 2024

Calidus
Oct 31, 2011

Stand back I'm going to try science!
I could accept a more streamlined combat experience if other parts were good but it’s sounds kinda of bland all around. I got major I could just replay sekiro and not have to deal with bland open world quests vibes.

lih
May 15, 2013

Just a friendly reminder of what it looks like.

We'll do punctuation later.
it sounds like it's possible the combat depth opens up later on but it just isn't there in the first few hours, and there's stuff like having to unlock stances that pads that out. if it's just an open world game with a slightly worse version of nioh's combat then that's still going to be much better than average for an open world game, but also isn't really going to justify its existence.

WaltherFeng
May 15, 2013

50 thousand people used to live here. Now, it's the Mushroom Kingdom.
I watched the video but I wasnt really convinced by his arguments regarding the combat.

So there isn't "sick combos" you can do but frankly the footage from the combat looked really fun and fluid.

Kefa
Jul 14, 2023

WaltherFeng posted:

I watched the video but I wasnt really convinced by his arguments regarding the combat.

So there isn't "sick combos" you can do but frankly the footage from the combat looked really fun and fluid.

I’d say the beginning of the video looked cool, especially when he used the grappling hook to get to the enemies, but the more he explains the combat the more shallow it starts to look. It does look flashy but I’d need this to have a very solid combat system to ignore all the other flaws. I wish we got a demo.

Sloober
Apr 1, 2011

WaltherFeng posted:

I watched the video but I wasnt really convinced by his arguments regarding the combat.

So there isn't "sick combos" you can do but frankly the footage from the combat looked really fun and fluid.

wo long didn't particularly engage me combat wise, but it was very flashy and smooth looking, i get the same sort of sense from rise on it, luckily rise is a long ways off as i'm a pc player anyways, so frankly i'm not the audience for it anyway. i just want a Nioh 3 tbqh

WaltherFeng
May 15, 2013

50 thousand people used to live here. Now, it's the Mushroom Kingdom.
I'm bit opposite I think Nioh was great but I don't necessarily need a 3rd game with the same combat system. The only thing that stopped me from playing more Wo Long was the morale system which tested my patience and turned every level into scavenger hunt.

Calidus
Oct 31, 2011

Stand back I'm going to try science!
Nioh was cool because you didn’t need to stance dance, but if you did it was super cool. The only stance dancing that I did was to get off li attacks.

Rise of the Ronin not having a heavy attack seems bad but Sekiro didn’t have one but you had other tools to work with. Not having monsters to fight is probably my biggest fear.

CharlestonJew
Jul 7, 2011

Illegal Hen

Calidus posted:

Nioh was cool because you didn’t need to stance dance, but if you did it was super cool. The only stance dancing that I did was to get off li attacks.

Rise of the Ronin not having a heavy attack seems bad but Sekiro didn’t have one but you had other tools to work with. Not having monsters to fight is probably my biggest fear.

Enemy variety is definitely my biggest concern with Ronin

WaltherFeng
May 15, 2013

50 thousand people used to live here. Now, it's the Mushroom Kingdom.
Most of the enemies you fight in Sekiro are basically human but they have very distinct appearances and lots of unique fighting styles so the lack of monsters isn't a huge concern for me. Though this is the first NT game they've done with seemingly no fantasy elements so we'll just have to see.

WaltherFeng fucked around with this message at 17:01 on Mar 12, 2024

Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008

This preview got me more excited for Rise of the Ronin than anything else I've seen:

https://kotaku.com/rise-ronin-ps5-game-soulslike-way-samurai-team-ninja-1851328426

It's very specific to me, though.

hatty
Feb 28, 2011

Pork Pro
Sekiro had a good share of monster enemies like dragons, the zombie villagers, and the youth leeching nobles but yeah most of the enemies and bosses were twelve foot tall samurai and giant ninjas so they can make it work if they don’t go too realistic

Kefa
Jul 14, 2023

WaltherFeng posted:

I'm bit opposite I think Nioh was great but I don't necessarily need a 3rd game with the same combat system.

Yeah, I agree. As much as I liked nioh 1 & 2, I don’t think I need a third game. I can just replay the second one. Unless they drastically change it in nioh 3 which at that point might as well be a different game anyway.

Calidus posted:

Nioh was cool because you didn’t need to stance dance, but if you did it was super cool. The only stance dancing that I did was to get off li attacks.

Rise of the Ronin not having a heavy attack seems bad but Sekiro didn’t have one but you had other tools to work with. Not having monsters to fight is probably my biggest fear.

True but Sekiro also had incredible level design and monster variety, which isn’t something TN is known for.

Jimbot posted:

This preview got me more excited for Rise of the Ronin than anything else I've seen:

https://kotaku.com/rise-ronin-ps5-game-soulslike-way-samurai-team-ninja-1851328426

It's very specific to me, though.

Too long, why did it make you excited? Does it say anything that hasn’t been said/shown in the videos yet?

Kefa
Jul 14, 2023

Someone should also make a thread for
Ronin (not me)

Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008

The article talks about the story-altering decisions you'd make and how it blends serious and campy moments in great ways similar to Way of the Samurai. Likewise you can create your own katana and the depth of the combat comes from switching to different styles for that weapon on the fly, like stance switching in Nioh.

Hel
Oct 9, 2012

Jokatgulm is tedium.
Jokatgulm is pain.
Jokatgulm is suffering.

Kefa posted:



Too long, why did it make you excited? Does it say anything that hasn’t been said/shown in the videos yet?

I'd guess the intro which says it's more Way of the Samurai than soulslike is actually pretty interesting.

Schubalts
Nov 26, 2007

People say bigger is better.

But for the first time in my life, I think I've gone too far.
A WOTS-like by Team Ninja already sounds amazing. Who knows if the actual WOTS will ever get another game.

Babe Magnet
Jun 2, 2008

yeah a new wots is like my dream game. I recently went through and 100% (ish, the third game just has way too many titles) the four main games and I'm jonesing for a new one lol

Kefa
Jul 14, 2023

Jimbot posted:

The article talks about the story-altering decisions you'd make and how it blends serious and campy moments in great ways similar to Way of the Samurai. Likewise you can create your own katana and the depth of the combat comes from switching to different styles for that weapon on the fly, like stance switching in Nioh.

I wouldn’t expect a great story from TN but we’ll see. Crating your own katana sounds interesting though.

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WaltherFeng
May 15, 2013

50 thousand people used to live here. Now, it's the Mushroom Kingdom.

Kefa posted:

I wouldn’t expect a great story from TN but we’ll see. Crating your own katana sounds interesting though.

I think there's a misunderstanding.

You can’t build a wholly new katana like you can in Way of the Samurai, but, much like Nioh’s stance switching, you can swap between an abundance of combat styles, many of which mirror the ones in Way of the Samurai (such as Iaido).

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