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Quick thoughts, I think BFC overall is a good community. Not great. Not perfect. But good. And that's perfectly acceptable. I might be in the minority, but I think things are going well and for most part discussions if a little direct are still quite measured. I don't think an "No rear end in a top hat" rule would work but I think folks should be careful with their words and assume the best intent. There's so much bad information regarding financial stuff on the internet these days it is freaking confusing. I do think we should occasionally reboot threads. A lot of the OPs are horrendously out of date or while the advice accurate it could just be cleaned up for sake of readability. I'm not a landlord, don't have interest in renting a property but holy hell it is sad that we can't have a thread for it because others might complain or just troll. If anything, it'd probably be more drama filled with folks who think it's an easy way to get rich - it isn't.
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Jan 1, 2023 21:19
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I don’t think you are in the minority in thinking things here are “pretty good.” This is a pretty low-drama forum and it’s awesome.
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Jan 1, 2023 21:39
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therobit posted:This is a pretty low-drama forum and it’s awesome. The power of good and thorough moderation.
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Jan 1, 2023 21:40
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Magnetic North posted:The power of good and thorough moderation. Also, we don't have the most contentious topics either. The ones we do argue about are easily proven/disproven, too, as the wall was either load-bearing or it wasn't.  For all the mockery I give D&D, when all you have are turds and bread you tend to end up with a poo poo sandwich.
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Jan 1, 2023 22:03
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therobit posted:I don’t think you are in the minority in thinking things here are “pretty good.” This is a pretty low-drama forum and it’s awesome. I'm happy to be wrong. I hope the trend continues. Gucci Loafers fucked around with this message at 01:49 on Jan 2, 2023 |
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Jan 2, 2023 00:29
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Sundae posted:Also, we don't have the most contentious topics either. The ones we do argue about are easily proven/disproven, too, as the wall was either load-bearing or it wasn't. D&D is the way it is because it has a programmatic lack of thorough moderation, including specifically by comparison to other forums. The reason for D&D's current state is because trolls are actively facilitated and given platforms to organize themselves against moderation, and because they have been encouraged to target users who contribute and drive them off the forum. As therobit noted, the landlord thread was a nonissue until a decision was made to not enforce existing rules, ceding it to the people who violated those rules. It is a severe mistake to allow trolls to dictate the scope of acceptable discussion. pmchem posted:Just point us to the needy threads (thanks). I was thinking of long-term investing, I'll have to take a tour and see if there are any others that need a pass.
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Jan 2, 2023 00:57
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Discendo Vox posted:I was thinking of long-term investing, I'll have to take a tour and see if there are any others that need a pass. hmm, have another look at the long-term thread OP: I gave it a set of substantial updates (with thread comments) just before Thanksgiving. If you think something else needs changing in it, definitely post in that thread with ideas. Thanks!
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Jan 2, 2023 01:02
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pmchem posted:hmm, have another look at the long-term thread OP: I gave it a set of substantial updates (with thread comments) just before Thanksgiving. If you think something else needs changing in it, definitely post in that thread with ideas. Thanks! Sorry, to clarify I agree, long-term investing looks great now; I'm going to take a look at the other threads.
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Jan 2, 2023 01:14
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Discendo Vox posted:Sorry, to clarify I agree, long-term investing looks great now; I'm going to take a look at the other threads. I want to put a contrarian voice in on the landlord thread. I recognize that a lot of people are sore about brigading from d&d but as someone who wants nothing to do with posting in d&d, spends a ton of time in this subforum, and has done some landlording in the past, I thought that thread was a cesspool. I tried reading 5 or 6 pages every once in a while to see if it got better but it never seemed to. It really felt like an echo chamber for the worst kind of slumlords talking about maximizing short term profits over long term goals. It also was very prone to people declaring legal advice from their very specific locality applied broadly. I think there's a really good reason that the lawyer and legaladvice threads don't inspire the same kind of hate and it's not because people love lawyers. Unless there are some actual experienced landlords and a couple of lawyers who want to volunteer as mods for that specific thread it's better left in the past. There was way too much bad advice being thrown around as thread blessed. It's up there with the old watch and weight starting strength thread for worst forums echo chamber effect.
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Jan 2, 2023 01:36
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Leviathan Song posted:I want to put a contrarian voice in on the landlord thread. I recognize that a lot of people are sore about brigading from d&d but as someone who wants nothing to do with posting in d&d, spends a ton of time in this subforum, and has done some landlording in the past, I thought that thread was a cesspool. I tried reading 5 or 6 pages every once in a while to see if it got better but it never seemed to. It really felt like an echo chamber for the worst kind of slumlords talking about maximizing short term profits over long term goals. It also was very prone to people declaring legal advice from their very specific locality applied broadly. I think there's a really good reason that the lawyer and legaladvice threads don't inspire the same kind of hate and it's not because people love lawyers. Unless there are some actual experienced landlords and a couple of lawyers who want to volunteer as mods for that specific thread it's better left in the past. There was way too much bad advice being thrown around as thread blessed. It's up there with the old watch and weight starting strength thread for worst forums echo chamber effect. Having just read some of that thread (which is still accessible), I’d disagree with this characterization. The pages before it got brigades had folks talking about keeping the rent increases lower and more in like with tax and insurance increases in order to retain good tenants who bother to inform them when something breaks so they can fix it.
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Jan 2, 2023 01:48
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therobit posted:Having just read some of that thread (which is still accessible), I’d disagree with this characterization. The pages before it got brigades had folks talking about keeping the rent increases lower and more in like with tax and insurance increases in order to retain good tenants who bother to inform them when something breaks so they can fix it. I understand there are people who disagree. We could both cherry pick good and bad pages all day but my overall impression of the thread was bad and I don't think I'm the only one who didn't want to spend a bunch of time wading into what felt like an echo chamber for bad ideas.
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Jan 2, 2023 01:55
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Discendo Vox posted:D&D is the way it is because it has a programmatic lack of thorough moderation, including specifically by comparison to other forums. The reason for D&D's current state is because trolls are actively facilitated and given platforms to organize themselves against moderation, and because they have been encouraged to target users who contribute and drive them off the forum. As therobit noted, the landlord thread was a nonissue until a decision was made to not enforce existing rules, ceding it to the people who violated those rules. It is a severe mistake to allow trolls to dictate the scope of acceptable discussion. A bit off topic, but who the hell is encouraging trolling? How doesn't that get you banned? In the past, I used to post in D&D quite a bit, more than I probably should but largely left because I feel like there's no discussion just screaming. YMMV.
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Jan 2, 2023 01:59
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I think D&D is way more readable than it's ever been, including when I was a mod there. Whatever bullshit they're doing there is working in my opinion. Doesn't mean it should be done here.
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Jan 2, 2023 02:03
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:A bit off topic, but who the hell is encouraging trolling? How doesn't that get you banned? In the past, I used to post in D&D quite a bit, more than I probably should but largely left because I feel like there's no discussion just screaming. YMMV. At the time both D&D and CSPAM both had cultures where they kind of got off on trolling other forums, stirring up poo poo with their enemies of the day and then reporting back to base to gleefully post about how badly they owned the class traitors in the other forum. D&D has been reined in quite a bit with Koos Group’s iron-fisted moderation. All that stuff is still tolerated and encouged in CSPAM though.
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Jan 2, 2023 02:08
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Fair. Maybe D&D is better but in the past it sucked. Personally, I think the amount moderation done here works well. I'm not a landlord, have no interest in it but again if people want to be landlords they should be able to get their own thread.
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Jan 2, 2023 02:08
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oh god please do not turn this thread into QCS for D&Dastral posted:I normally only read/post in a small handful of threads here but I've no complaints about their moderation (they haven't needed any, as far as I can remember). I largely agree with this, although if there's a no-rear end in a top hat rule it's actually better to have it listed somewhere. In general the site moderation goes off the rails when it's mods just following their whims as opposed to some established guideline.
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Jan 2, 2023 02:12
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Agronox posted:oh god please do not turn this thread into QCS for D&D. Fair. Some of the earlier discussion sparked my curiosity but I'll drop it.
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Jan 2, 2023 02:13
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:Fair. Some of the earlier discussion sparked my curiosity but I'll drop it. thanks yeah let's not use this thread for commentary on other subfourms
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Jan 2, 2023 03:45
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Landlord thread opinion: Please do not.Crosby B. Alfred posted:I do think we should occasionally reboot threads. A lot of the OPs are horrendously out of date or while the advice accurate it could just be cleaned up for sake of readability.
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Jan 2, 2023 04:13
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I think it's important to make knowledge and advice from this form more accessible to and useful for the broader forums community, but I don't think that anyone posting in here is going to have great ideas about how to achieve this because, you know, we're already here.
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Jan 2, 2023 05:49
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Honestly, the best thing you could do there is to move BFC up to the top level so that it's more visible. It's easy to miss subforums unless you're reading the forums list carefully, and probably not too many regulars do.
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Jan 2, 2023 05:56
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I don’t think the traffic is a huge concern - it mirrors real life in the sense that people need to commit to making good financial decisions before any advice will help at all
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Jan 2, 2023 06:00
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My feedback is you guys are doing great and some lego people really have sand in their buttcracks but I like the idea of thread vacations, maybe we can move the donut thread to gws for a while.
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Jan 2, 2023 08:10
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Hadlock posted:I'm in favor of another landlord thread, sub 3% APR mortgages will be minting a bunch of reluctant first time landlords and needs to be separate from the other two home owner threads
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Jan 2, 2023 16:39
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I'm in favor of a landlord thread if we use it as a tool to concentrate a bunch of bad first time landlords in one place and make fun of them when things go wrong.
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Jan 2, 2023 16:44
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moana posted:My feedback is you guys are doing great and some lego people really have sand in their buttcracks but I like the idea of thread vacations, maybe we can move the donut thread to gws for a while. 
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Jan 2, 2023 17:17
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IMO there does need to be either a landlord thread or a "no discussion of being a landlord allowed" rule. Having it periodically come up and then get brigaded in separate threads or the homeownership thread or general chat thread would be even more aggravating for mods than having a thread for it with a couple IKs.
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Jan 2, 2023 17:49
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i think bfc is pretty good as it is but it would be nice to do a couple of things: - reboot the megathreads with really old OPs, even if it's just to say everything in the OP is still good - it would be cool if we stole an idea from the personal finance reddit and had like a monthly topic thread that gets closed at the end of the month rotating through some bfc topics: e.g. investing, savings, real estate, taxes, or fun stuff like post your career fuckup - it would also be cool in the spirit of attracting new people if some of our threads traveled to other subforums from time to time - and in the same spirit of keeping bfc its own thing i think it would be good to moderate doomsday econ posting a little more - i completely agree with the politics but i already have what i want from C-SPAM, just cloning C-SPAM culture into BFC makes the whole subforum pointless
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Jan 2, 2023 18:18
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So... who's going to update the threads?
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Jan 2, 2023 23:13
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I don't understand why we'd need to start a new thread to update an outdated OP. Just... edit the OP.
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Jan 2, 2023 23:25
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Eric the Mauve posted:I don't understand why we'd need to start a new thread to update an outdated OP. Just... edit the OP. What's wrong with starting a new thread? Some OPs don't post here anymore and it seems weird to modedit those posts. Might as well get a fresh start.
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Jan 2, 2023 23:29
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Mad Wack posted:- it would be cool if we stole an idea from the personal finance reddit and had like a monthly topic thread that gets closed at the end of the month rotating through some bfc topics: e.g. investing, savings, real estate, taxes, or fun stuff like post your career fuckup I had a similar thought. r/financialindependence has a daily thread chat and discussion thread. One of the mods often posts a daily question, some of which are very finance/career-oriented, others of which are less so. I don't know that BFC can sustain a daily question, but maybe a question-of-the-week thread would drive some interesting discussion?
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Jan 3, 2023 00:29
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:So... who's going to update the threads? If a given megathread's regulars post comments in it with requests for changes (whether edits or reboot), we'll act on it in the thread. If we don't respond, please ping us here. Eric the Mauve posted:I don't understand why we'd need to start a new thread to update an outdated OP. Just... edit the OP. This works for some threads, for example, the long-term investing thread. But... KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:What's wrong with starting a new thread? Some OPs don't post here anymore and it seems weird to modedit those posts. Might as well get a fresh start. ...I generally agree with this sentiment. Discussions get stale, people get grumpy and silo'd in decade-long megathreads. Searching starts getting less efficient. If you have archives access, it's remarkable how much more vibrant BFC (and most of SA) was a decade ago with many more short lifetime threads going around. I think the Stock Trading thread reboot (new OP by Agronox) is a great example of a nice reboot of a megathread, with no dropoff in traffic. That said, I'm not gonna force a reboot on a thread where I can't write the new OP. So if a megathread is going to be rebooted, we need a volunteer (or tribute...) from that megathread!
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Jan 3, 2023 01:42
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Mad Wack posted:i think bfc is pretty good as it is but it would be nice to do a couple of things: I agree with pretty much everything you said (answered megathread stuff in post above). pig slut lisa posted:I had a similar thought. r/financialindependence has a daily thread chat and discussion thread. One of the mods often posts a daily question, some of which are very finance/career-oriented, others of which are less so. I don't know that BFC can sustain a daily question, but maybe a question-of-the-week thread would drive some interesting discussion? I'll talk with baddog about this.
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Jan 3, 2023 01:43
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pmchem posted:If a given megathread's regulars post comments in it with requests for changes (whether edits or reboot), we'll act on it in the thread. If we don't respond, please ping us here. In TFR we used to have a single long rear end chat thread that ran for years. It was discarded for monthly chat threads and we got a lot more posters participating.
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Jan 3, 2023 05:02
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We'll try to get a biweekly/monthly topic/chat thread going here, good suggestion. Could use some ideas to seed discussions for the first couple tho. How to approach reviews? Counteroffers? Something more topical like the financial disaster of the week?
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Jan 6, 2023 00:18
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Baddog posted:We'll try to get a biweekly/monthly topic/chat thread going here, good suggestion. Could use some ideas to seed discussions for the first couple tho. How to approach reviews? Counteroffers? Something more topical like the financial disaster of the week? Honestly, maybe asking for question suggestions should be the first prompt. Another I'll throw out: What fictional books, movies, or TV shows have influenced your approach to work and money, and why?
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Jan 7, 2023 06:52
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pig slut lisa posted:Another I'll throw out: What fictional books, movies, or TV shows have influenced your approach to work and money, and why?  I mean, duh... Requiem For a Dream. 
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Jan 7, 2023 07:22
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pig slut lisa posted:Honestly, maybe asking for question suggestions should be the first prompt. All I do is read about financial and economics. Ever since I've got into twitter and personal finance it's been non-stop. And I need to stop  The Odd Lots podcast is amazingly good. Daniel Yergin's latest book The New Map is fantastic. Watching Ramit Sethi make fun of grifters or fight back at trolls is genuinely enjoyable.
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Jan 7, 2023 08:22
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Sethi is a misogynistic dick, gently caress that guy
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Jan 7, 2023 09:47
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