Sumo: Through Banana Canada, we have all now vicariously been to Meatland. (page 68)

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > The Hammer House: Stinger Splash Zone > Sumo: Through Banana Canada, we have all now vicariously been to Meatland. (page 68)

Shodai?
	Shodai
	SHODAI

Tiny Bug Child: Sep 11, 2004; Avoid Symmetry, Allow Complexity, Introduce Terror

Y/O:
Takakeisho

S/K:
Wakatakakage
Hoshoryu
Takayasu

M1-5:
Abi
Nishikifuji
Tobizaru

M6-10:
Endo
Oho
Onosho

M11+:
Kotoshoho
Ichiyamamoto
Mitoryu

Really tough one to pick despite only having to pick for four groups. S/K feels like a giant tossup that hinges on whether or not Takayasu is still injured. Endo hasn't been great lately but I don't think he's injured so I'm banking on him finding his sumo and getting double digits like the last couple times he fell this low.

# ¿ Jan 7, 2023 21:56

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# ¿ May 10, 2024 19:27

Tiny Bug Child: Sep 11, 2004; Avoid Symmetry, Allow Complexity, Introduce Terror

Well that's a bummer. Assuming Tochi does stick around and that he recovers, I think he could do well enough in juryo to make it back. He's been turning in respectable enough scores to hover around mid-maegashira even without being able to pull off the sky crane.

bessantj posted:

drat you Tiny Bug Child. You don't know me and we've never interacted but with you one point and place above me you are my mortal nemesis!

Nothing personal, you're just standing in the way of my return to yokogoona :evilbuddy:

# ¿ Jan 12, 2023 04:30

Tiny Bug Child: Sep 11, 2004; Avoid Symmetry, Allow Complexity, Introduce Terror

This has been a really entertaining basho. Lots of very good sumo, lots of goofy henkas.

D13: if you had told me Mitakeumi vs Tobizaru was going to be a failed henka punished hilariously I still never would have expected that. lol. Also Takakeisho vs Onosho ruled but drat was that brutal, so many head clashes

# ¿ Jan 20, 2023 19:23

Tiny Bug Child: Sep 11, 2004; Avoid Symmetry, Allow Complexity, Introduce Terror

Special prizes:

Kiribayama gets the Technique prize

Kotoshoho gets Fighting Spirit and, if he wins, Outstanding Performance too

Onosho gets the Fighting Spirit only if he wins

# ¿ Jan 22, 2023 07:32

Tiny Bug Child: Sep 11, 2004; Avoid Symmetry, Allow Complexity, Introduce Terror

Kenning posted:

Congrats also to tiny bug child, who got the jun-yusho by choosing Endo instead of Onosho and trailing by one point.

Hell yeah, the Endo Gambit paid off. Thanks for running the show Kenning, and grats to Khizan for taking the cup.

I'm disappointed we won't (yet) get to see what a Takakeisho yokozuna dohyo-iri looks like, but I don't think denying him the rope is a robbery. Back-to-back 12-3s aren't quite the level of dominance you want to see for a yokozuna promotion, especially given his so-so record versus the rest of the sanyaku. I think he's also getting a boost from the absence of Terunofuji and Asanoyama, and they'll both be back in the mix soon. If he keeps this level of performance up for another basho then sure, definitely give it to him, but right now I'd be worried his yokozuna career would be a short one given the number of 8-7s and withdrawals in his recent history. Though I was very impressed with all the throws he managed to pull off this basho! It does seem like he's trying to be less one-note in his technique.

# ¿ Jan 23, 2023 20:22

Tiny Bug Child: Sep 11, 2004; Avoid Symmetry, Allow Complexity, Introduce Terror

Y/O:
Takakeisho

S/K:
Wakatakakage
Hoshoryu
Kotonowaka

M1-5:
Abi
Mitakeumi
Tamawashi

M6-10:
Takayasu
Nishikifuji
Ichiyamamoto

M11+:
Kinbozan
Hokuseiho
Takanosho

# ¿ Mar 11, 2023 19:49

Tiny Bug Child: Sep 11, 2004; Avoid Symmetry, Allow Complexity, Introduce Terror

riderchop posted:

day 2 abi v hoshoryu that pissed me off, they should have done a rematch, justice for hoshoryu

I'm the thread's #1 Abi Enjoyer so I'm biased but I really don't see it. Abi was still raising his leg off the tawara when Hoshoryu hit, didn't seem particularly close in the replay.

Wakatakakage not looking great. He always seems to have a rough start but this looks rougher than normal. I'm considering cutting him from Tiny Bug Beya if he loses tomorrow... but he's up against Shodai, so that's probably not going to be a reliable indicator of anything either way.

Poignant moment from Day 2 when Terutsuyoshi got hoisted up from makushita to fight Tokushoryu, so he got to throw salt again. He went with a respectfully juryo-sized amount:

He lost via failed henka and is currently 0-2. Might be the last salt he ever throws in the ring.

# ¿ Mar 14, 2023 23:12

Tiny Bug Child: Sep 11, 2004; Avoid Symmetry, Allow Complexity, Introduce Terror

Yeah, this coward has seen enough.

Trade request: Trade Wakatakakage for Kiribayama, Daieisho, or Kotonowaka, in that order of preference.

# ¿ Mar 16, 2023 03:50

Tiny Bug Child: Sep 11, 2004; Avoid Symmetry, Allow Complexity, Introduce Terror

Y/O:
Terunofuji
Takakeisho

S/K:
Kiribayama
Daieisho
Hoshoryu

M1-5:
Abi
Tobizaru
Kinbozan

M6-10:
Tamawashi
Ryuden
Mitakeumi

M11+:
Asanoyama
Hokuseiho
Chiyoshoma

# ¿ May 14, 2023 01:06

Tiny Bug Child: Sep 11, 2004; Avoid Symmetry, Allow Complexity, Introduce Terror

Y/O:
Terunofuji
Kirishima

K/S:
Hoshoryu
Abi
Wakamotoharu

M1-5:
Asanoyama
Mitakeumi
Tobizaru

M6-10:
Takayasu
Kinbozan
Hokuseiho

M11+:
Gonoyama
Hakuoho
Ryuden

# ¿ Jul 8, 2023 17:15

Tiny Bug Child: Sep 11, 2004; Avoid Symmetry, Allow Complexity, Introduce Terror

Absolutely insane fight from Tobizaru. Teru's undoubtedly compromised but still, if ever a match deserved the zabuton storm that one did. Was worried the gyoji was going to stop the match to re-tie Tobi's mawashi. I think Teru had it up to about his shoulder by the end.

# ¿ Jul 11, 2023 23:40

Tiny Bug Child: Sep 11, 2004; Avoid Symmetry, Allow Complexity, Introduce Terror

I love when Hokuseiho appears to forget he has two arms

# ¿ Jul 14, 2023 23:03

Tiny Bug Child: Sep 11, 2004; Avoid Symmetry, Allow Complexity, Introduce Terror

I'll trade Asanoyama for Nishikigi, Tobizaru, or Meisei, in that order of preference.

# ¿ Jul 16, 2023 03:17

Tiny Bug Child: Sep 11, 2004; Avoid Symmetry, Allow Complexity, Introduce Terror

Y/O:
Hoshoryu
Kirishima
Takakeisho

S/K:
Wakamotoharu
Kotonowaka
Tobizaru

M1-5:
Asanoyama
Gonoyama
Abi

M6-10:
Kinbozan
Endo
Midorifuji

M11+:
Atamifuji
Hokuseiho
Aoiyama

# ¿ Sep 10, 2023 01:03

Tiny Bug Child: Sep 11, 2004; Avoid Symmetry, Allow Complexity, Introduce Terror

Kenning posted:

In any case, congratulations to Banana Canada and Tiny Bug Child for jointly hoisting the cup. Obviously both teams contained the wunderkind Atamifuji, and both were fully undefeated, although they didn't have all that many wrestlers in common, only sharing Wakamotoharu in addition to Atamifuji.

Clearing goonzeki kadoban in style! Thanks Kenning for another fantasy basho and congratulations to Banana Canada on our co-yusho.

Fun basho, even if Atamifuji didn't get the win I was hoping for. I was pretty grumpy with the Takakeisho win as it happened, both because of the henka and also Takakeisho winning a 2-man playoff was the most boring possible outcome of a senshuraku that could have gone a lot of different ways. No doubt it was the most likely outcome, though. Atamifuji doesn't seem quite ready to compete with the sanyaku yet, I can't imagine Hokuseiho getting it, and Takayasu has obviously been cursed by the gods to always be a contender but never a champion. But I'll be rooting for the hamster to at least get a decent jun-yusho in November. I think he's got a shot, especially if Teru's still out. He's put in enough work to deserve the rope but mainly I just really want to see what a Takakeisho yokozuna dohyo-iri looks like.

# ¿ Sep 28, 2023 20:25

Tiny Bug Child: Sep 11, 2004; Avoid Symmetry, Allow Complexity, Introduce Terror

Y/O:
Kirishima
Hoshoryu
Takakeisho

S/K:
Wakamotoharu
Kotonowaka
Abi

M1-5:
Gonoyama
Tobizaru
Takayasu

M6-10:
Atamifuji
Endo
Hokuseiho

M11+:
Tohakuryu
Oho
Sadanoumi

# ¿ Nov 12, 2023 00:06

Tiny Bug Child: Sep 11, 2004; Avoid Symmetry, Allow Complexity, Introduce Terror

Trade request: Tohakuryu for Ichiyamamoto, Tamawashi, or Tomokaze, in that order of preference.

I was gambling on a Tokushoryu kind of thing where everyone would fail to deal with the guy with the one weird trick, but I guess someone who does nothing but pull is easy to figure out.

# ¿ Nov 17, 2023 23:59

Tiny Bug Child: Sep 11, 2004; Avoid Symmetry, Allow Complexity, Introduce Terror

OneSizeFitsAll posted:

Kirishima looked indomitable throughout. He has good technique but also seems very strong also given his lower weight. In line for Yokozuna I guess, if he wins in January. I assume it needs to be not just a win but a strong one, like with a limit to the amount of losses?

Hoshoryu still has the countenance of a badass. Felt like he could have contended for this title, but the margins are obviously pretty fine in sumo. He seems to me to have great throwing technique - loved seeing him toss people around.

Takakeisho seems incredibly solid and planted, like it would be almost impossible to beat him by yorikiri. At the same time, his balance and agility seem less great; his losses seemed to be him mainly losing balance or having a more agile opponent take advantage of his momentum and help him on his way out the dohyo. My inexperienced perception tells me he needs to work on this to have a good chance of making yokozuna.

Any yusho in January almost certainly gets Kirishima the rope; you have to go back to 1949 to find a case of an ozeki with two yusho in a row not getting the promotion. Chances are a runner-up performance would get him there too, but that's not as clear-cut. When someone's on a potential ozeki/yokozuna run the NSK/YDC often makes an informal announcement that they'll think about it if the wrestler meets some super strict criteria (like I think before this basho they were saying they might promote Takakeisho if he got a perfect yusho) but in practice, at least over the last few years, they seem more forgiving about the requirements than they say. They're also probably inclined to be lenient about yokozuna promotions right now because current lone yokozuna Terunofuji already has one foot out the door due to mounting injuries.

Whether Takakeisho can make yokozuna with his one-note pushing/thrusting style is a perennial question whenever he gets a yusho. The injuries are starting to accrue for him and he seems to have trouble stringing big tournaments together. I think it would be difficult, especially with the other ozeki really having come into their own lately. (Fun fact: in 2023 every yusho was won by a yokozuna, an ozeki, or a wrestler who would later be promoted to ozeki. Sometimes you hear complaints about the last few years of relatively frequent rank-and-file wins, but that era might be over.)

Atamifuji is definitely very impressive, and one of my favorite guys to watch. It's crazy how fast he shot up through the ranks, and out of three tournaments in the top division he's been runner-up champion twice and gotten two special prizes. I have no doubt he'll be a sanyaku regular.

OneSizeFitsAll posted:

Clearly size is far from everything, and agility and skill play big roles. I saw quite a few matches where someone's footwork allowed them to make use of their opponents momentum and shove them out of the dohyo, or slap them down to the floor. I saw a video, can't remember who it was referring to specifically or when the quotes were made, that mentioned some criticism from the sumo authorities levelled at someone gunning for a yokozuna promotion for sidestepping too much. I guess it's considered un-sumo-like, or not in the spirit, to some extent? It's really effective though! I even saw someone kind of half do it during a tachi-ai, which I'd have thought was a definite no-no, but he didn't get penalised for it; it was only semi-blatant, though.

Sidestepping at the initial charge is called a henka, and it's absolutely considered unsporting, undignified, etc., but it's also universally acknowledged to be completely within the rules and many wrestlers pull a henka now and then, even the greatest of all time. Sidestepping after the tachi-ai is not a henka and doesn't have the same dishonorable connotations. It's not necessarily considered good sumo form (the Platonic ideal of sumo, according to the grumpy old men, is two extremely strong guys running into each other and pushing forward until one goes out) but it doesn't have the stigma of a henka.

OneSizeFitsAll posted:

Overall, I was well entertained, and it was a welcome distraction in the evenings. The more you follow the paths and progression of the rikishi the more gripping it gets, and I suppose the same thing applies over multiple tournaments as well as within individual ones.

Absolutely. Being able to follow all the narratives on both the micro and macro level is something pretty unique to sumo and one of my favorite things about it. There's the drama of individual tournaments, the arc of a wrestler's entire career, and if you watch long enough you even get to see your favorite guys enter the NSK and become grumpy old men themselves.

# ¿ Nov 27, 2023 20:40

Tiny Bug Child: Sep 11, 2004; Avoid Symmetry, Allow Complexity, Introduce Terror

Kisenosato was promoted off a 12-3 jun-yusho and a 14-1 yusho, but the jun-yusho came first. I think they might view ozeki/yok runs more favorably when they're in ascending order.

Kintamayama translated the post-basho comments from the YDC over at sumoforum:

Kintamayama posted:

The YDC was full of admiration for Kirishima and his yusho. "If he repeats this in the same fashion in January, we will suggest a promotion to Yokozuna," said Mr. Yamauchi. They did, however, criticize Houshouryuu's tachiai (at first he was not named by name but in the end it was admitted that this was aimed at Houshouryuu..) behavior with all the stares and 90 second waiting. "Ugly" was the word used, "He will surely be one of the contenders to become Yokozuna in the future and it is very regrettable that he showed this kind of behavior. I personally like him, but." said Mr. Yamauchi. "He's an Ozeki. This cannot be. Watching it, it was unseemly," added Shibatayama. "After day 5 when he was called to the offices and was admonished for his 90 second stare-down tachiai, we expect the Oyakata will be guiding him in the right direction," summed Mr. Yamauchi

As for Terunofuji, they expect him to enter January. "It is truly unfortunate that the yokozuna was absent. We will watch his progress, hoping he overcomes his health problems and will enter Hatsubasho.If he doesn't show up it will be regrettable. If that happens, comments may arise.." they said. When asked if he will be faced with one of the three things- "encouragement", "caution", or "intai-advice" - "We haven't gone that far yet. No, it will probably be a statement of our general feelings. We haven't decided anything yet. We'll have to see what happens in January," summed the chief.

# ¿ Nov 28, 2023 02:04

Tiny Bug Child: Sep 11, 2004; Avoid Symmetry, Allow Complexity, Introduce Terror

Y/O:
Terunofuji
Kirishima
Hoshoryu

S/K:
Takayasu
Kotonowaka
Daieisho

M1-5:
Atamifuji
Abi
Tobizaru

M6-10:
Ichiyamamoto
Hokuseiho
Mitakeumi

M11+:
Onosato
Kotoshoho
Endo

Juryo:
Takerufuji
Chiyoshoma
Daiamami

# ¿ Jan 14, 2024 00:15

Tiny Bug Child: Sep 11, 2004; Avoid Symmetry, Allow Complexity, Introduce Terror

Tiny Bug Beya is really not off to a great start this basho. I guess I'll start by ditching Takayasu and see about salvaging the rest tomorrow.

Trade request: Takyasu for Kotonowaka, Daieisho, or Ura in that order of preference.

Teru's looking kind of shaky out there, but Kirishima and Hoshoryu are both looking great. That throw Hoshoryu pulled off on Ura was absurd.

# ¿ Jan 17, 2024 00:30

Tiny Bug Child: Sep 11, 2004; Avoid Symmetry, Allow Complexity, Introduce Terror

Trade request: Ichiyamamoto for Asanoyama, Mitakeumi, or Meisei, depending on availability.

# ¿ Jan 18, 2024 02:06

Tiny Bug Child: Sep 11, 2004; Avoid Symmetry, Allow Complexity, Introduce Terror

I agree with that. It would be a lovely, ignominious way for the GOAT to go out, but he did a lovely, ignominious thing! He knowingly let some pretty serious abuse go on at his stable for an extended period of time and there's nothing in the way of mitigating circumstances other than what, all his extracurriculars like the Hakuho Cup? If he's going to take on the responsibility of running a stable that should be his first priority. In my opinion booting him from the sumo association entirely would be too much, but taking the heya away and maybe letting him try again 5 or 10 years down the road would be harsh but not unwarranted.

# ¿ Mar 8, 2024 22:52

Tiny Bug Child: Sep 11, 2004; Avoid Symmetry, Allow Complexity, Introduce Terror

Y/O:
Terunofuji
Kirishima
Kotonowaka

S/K:
Wakamotoharu
Nishikigi
Abi

M1-5:
Onosato
Atamifuji
Asanoyama

M6-10:
Gonoyama
Kotoshoho
Takayasu

M11+:
Takerufuji
Ichiyamamoto
Ryuden

Juryo:
Wakatakakage
Hakuoho
Takarafuji

mawashi: purple on yellow

# ¿ Mar 9, 2024 19:44

Tiny Bug Child: Sep 11, 2004; Avoid Symmetry, Allow Complexity, Introduce Terror

Wanted to see how popular everyone was in the draft, so I made a thing to sort the rikishi within each group based on an arbitrary scoring where a first choice is worth one point, second choice is worth 0.5 points, and third choice is worth 0.25 points. Here's the results, if anyone is interested. (Numbers in parentheses are how many times they were picked as a first/second/third choice.)

code:

Y/O
-------
   Kirishima: 32.5 (19, 20, 14)
   Hoshoryu: 25 (16, 12, 12)
   Terunofuji: 23.25 (16, 11, 7)
   Kotonowaka: 23.25 (12, 12, 21)
   Takakeisho: 6.25 (0, 8, 9)

S/K
-------
   Wakamotoharu: 43.5 (31, 21, 8)
   Daieisho: 33.25 (19, 21, 15)
   Nishikigi: 21 (6, 15, 30)
   Abi: 12.5 (7, 6, 10)

M1-5
-------
   Asanoyama: 24.5 (19, 8, 6)
   Onosato: 22.25 (16, 7, 11)
   Atamifuji: 21.5 (10, 17, 12)
   Midorifuji: 11 (5, 8, 8)
   Ura: 9.75 (7, 3, 5)
   Tobizaru: 9.75 (2, 13, 5)
   Meisei: 3.5 (1, 3, 4)
   Hiradoumi: 3 (1, 1, 6)
   Oho: 2.75 (1, 2, 3)
   Takanosho: 2.25 (1, 1, 3)

M6-10
-------
   Gonoyama: 30 (22, 14, 4)
   Takayasu: 15.75 (9, 10, 7)
   Tamawashi: 12.5 (7, 7, 8)
   Shodai: 11.5 (5, 9, 8)
   Hokutofuji: 10.5 (7, 5, 4)
   Kinbozan: 9.25 (4, 7, 7)
   Onosho: 6.25 (4, 1, 7)
   Kotoshoho: 6.25 (2, 5, 7)
   Tsurugisho: 4 (2, 3, 2)
   Mitakeumi: 2.25 (0, 1, 7)

M11+
-------
   Takerufuji: 27.25 (25, 2, 5)
   Ichiyamamoto: 12.5 (8, 7, 4)
   Roga: 11.5 (5, 8, 10)
   Endo: 7.5 (3, 6, 6)
   Kitanowaka: 7.25 (4, 2, 9)
   Ryuden: 6.75 (2, 7, 5)
   Nishikifuji: 6.75 (1, 10, 3)
   Sadanoumi: 6.5 (5, 3, 0)
   Shimazuumi: 6.5 (4, 3, 4)
   Daiamami: 5.75 (2, 5, 5)
   Churanoumi: 4.75 (2, 3, 5)
   Shonannoumi: 4.5 (1, 5, 4)
   Myogiryu: 2.5 (1, 2, 2)

Juryo
-------
   Wakatakakage: 36.25 (27, 17, 3)
   Hakuoho: 34 (24, 17, 6)
   Shishi: 5.75 (1, 8, 3)
   Kotoeko: 4.75 (2, 3, 5)
   Aoiyama: 4 (2, 2, 4)
   Takarafuji: 3.5 (2, 2, 2)
   Tomokaze: 3 (2, 0, 4)
   Asakoryu: 2.75 (0, 3, 5)
   Tokihayate: 2.5 (1, 1, 4)
   Akua: 2 (1, 2, 0)
   Tohakuryu: 1.5 (0, 1, 4)
   Oshoma: 1.25 (0, 2, 1)
   Bushozan: 1.25 (0, 0, 5)
   Hokuseiho: 1 (0, 2, 0)
   Shiden: 0.75 (0, 1, 1)
   Oshoumi: 0.75 (0, 0, 3)
   Shirokuma: 0.5 (0, 0, 2)
   Hidenoumi: 0.5 (0, 0, 2)
   Tsushimanada: 0.5 (0, 0, 2)
   Chiyosakae: 0.5 (0, 1, 0)
   Kagayaki: 0.25 (0, 0, 1)
   Hakuyozan: 0.25 (0, 0, 1)
   Chiyoshoma: 0.25 (0, 0, 1)
   Shimanoumi: 0.25 (0, 0, 1)
   Tamashoho: 0.25 (0, 0, 1)
   Kitaharima: 0.25 (0, 0, 1)
   Mitoryu: 0 (0, 0, 0)
   Daishoho: 0 (0, 0, 0)

# ¿ Mar 12, 2024 00:51

Tiny Bug Child: Sep 11, 2004; Avoid Symmetry, Allow Complexity, Introduce Terror

Trade request: Terunofuji for Hoshoryu if available, Takakeisho if not.

Also surprised he stuck it out this long. That's a lot of kinboshi to give up, especially against guys who aren't doing particularly well otherwise.

# ¿ Mar 16, 2024 01:35

Tiny Bug Child: Sep 11, 2004; Avoid Symmetry, Allow Complexity, Introduce Terror

Looks like Takerufuji is going to compete:

https://twitter.com/patriciajaydee/status/1771746301220376864

# ¿ Mar 24, 2024 05:00

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# ¿ May 10, 2024 19:27

Tiny Bug Child: Sep 11, 2004; Avoid Symmetry, Allow Complexity, Introduce Terror

Fighting Spirit and Technique to Onosato and Takerufuji both, and Outstanding Performance to the yusho winner.

# ¿ Mar 24, 2024 05:52

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > The Hammer House: Stinger Splash Zone > Sumo: Through Banana Canada, we have all now vicariously been to Meatland. (page 68)