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I watched SfS for the first time yesterday, i went in expecting to hate it, but it's fine. The Klingons are good, there's even a targ! Shatner's delivery of "I have had enough of you!" at the end is wild. Also, i get its the point of the movie that they get to Vulcan, but it really feels like it should have ended 10 minutes before by the time credits roll.
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Mar 21, 2023 22:13
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Star Trek III: The Search for Spock really has a lot to recommend it-- Christopher Lloyd is quite good and it was our first proper look at post-TOS Klingons, making a huge influence on TNG Klingons. Kirk missing the chair when he learns about David is excellent. Everything Uhura does with Mr. Adventure is great. Like none of it is terrible, it's just not really doing more than meeting expectations or falling slightly short. The bad parts aren't memorably bad, in-fact the most memorably bad moment is the one you want to forget the most, which also means it's less enjoyably hammy like Final Frontier or TMP are. Anyway my list:
mind the walrus fucked around with this message at 04:28 on Mar 23, 2023 |
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Mar 23, 2023 04:13
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:Search For Spock is a much better movie than a lot of fans give it credit for (the 'worst' of the TOS movies are better than the baseline TNG and JJ movies, in my opinion). But you really can't beat a movie where Kirk steals the Enterprise and then blows that bitch up to save himself from Klingons.
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Mar 25, 2023 21:50
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Star Trek III's bad reputation is one of those received wisdom things like "everybody hated Zelda II." Like, maybe not everybody loved it, it hasn't aged the best, but it was a big hit and got mostly good reviews. In fact, if you don't discount some of the lingering "Star Trek is a cheesy relic of 60s TV" bias that you still saw a little bit of during TWOK's release, Star Trek III arguably had the best reviews overall of the first three films. I honestly think it all started with the whole "Odd numbered Star Trek movies suck" meme that started with Star Trek V.
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Apr 30, 2023 07:50
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KurdtLives posted:Yeah, he blows up the love of his life to kill like 6 Klingons because it is the only play he has left, it's wild The Enterprise itself is ultimately just a vessel. It's the crew that's the spirit (the katra!) of the ship. So long as the crew and their own spirit survives, she can be reborn endlessly.
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Apr 30, 2023 07:53
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SidneyIsTheKiller posted:Star Trek III's bad reputation is one of those received wisdom things like "everybody hated Zelda II." Like, maybe not everybody loved it, it hasn't aged the best, but it was a big hit and got mostly good reviews. In fact, if you don't discount some of the lingering "Star Trek is a cheesy relic of 60s TV" bias that you still saw a little bit of during TWOK's release, Star Trek III arguably had the best reviews overall of the first three films. Nemesis and Into Darkness effectively ended the Odd/Even stereotype.
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Apr 30, 2023 10:14
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The Best Tier: The Motion Picture The Wrath of Khan The Search for Spock The Voyage Home The Final Frontier The Undiscovered Country The Meh Tier: ST09 First Contact Beyond The poo poo Tier: Generations Insurrection Nemesis The "Friends Don't Let Friends Watch This" Tier: Into Darkness* *You can watch the Enterprise mission on Nibiru, but stop the movie after that and just pretend it was a short https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHKUJPRtewI
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May 1, 2023 01:57
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Bogus Adventure posted:The Best Tier: I absolutely love the 6 TOS movies as a series but putting them all on the same tier is highly questionable. As to Nibiru, "COLD FUSION DEVICE" 
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May 1, 2023 02:45
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KurdtLives posted:I absolutely love the 6 TOS movies as a series but putting them all on the same tier is highly questionable. I ranked them based on how likely I'd watch them again. I'll watch all 6 TOS movies anywhere, anytime. The others not so much.
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May 1, 2023 02:49
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That's a respectable position and good viewing company.
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May 1, 2023 03:25
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MikeJF posted:Wait when you say 2001 do you mean September 11 2001 No, the space Odyssey And, speaking of, I started rewatching 2009 and noticed both v'ger imagery in Nero's vessel and lots of imperial star wars imagery on the federation ship. Film so far seems to be heavily arguing the life form status of the ships, Kirk being essentially born out of one. Kirk drives his car, not into one of Iowa's natural canyons but a rock quarry. Spock's bullies are learning complex math and Kirk's tell him to "do the math" because there are more of them. Good stuff so far
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May 28, 2023 22:26
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The characters in Star Trek 2009 are the blood and cells of the ship they are on. This extends obviously to the blood imagery on Spock's ship, but also the frequency of red uniforms on the enterprise, scotty being urinated out of an orfice, and the organic machinery and green lighting on Nero's ship, and so on. Spock goes into V'ger, essentially, and shoots it with his gun from the future instead of mating with it. Spock's mind meld is interesing because he seems to be hiding something, yet also is not exactly censoring himself in his realization and ignorance of Nero's situation. From one angle, the story is like a man going back in time to try and kill Hitler, but Hitler steals his time machine and advances warp drive too quickly. We barely see Nero! All we know is that he calmly accepts death. Why did Spock think destroying Romulus's sun would save it? There is a warning in the transporter room not to have any active transmissions during transport. How much background radiation do you think our heroes are accepting by transporting during warp? Anyway, one of the best star treks, yet still not as good as The Motion Picture. but good commentary on, said motion picture.
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May 30, 2023 08:18
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There aren’t any good Star Trek movies, because they are invariably either Not Good or Not “Star Trek” (in the sense that they might resemble the TV series at all). Motion Picture is the best Space: 1999 movie, for example, and Star Trek 2009 is the best Guardians Of The Galaxy movie. But just try and approach Wrath Of Khan as “Space Seed: Part 2”. It doesn’t work!
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Jun 2, 2023 03:51
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Galaxy Quest
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Jun 2, 2023 16:06
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ungulateman posted:Galaxy Quest Master And Commander
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Jun 2, 2023 17:30
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Star Trek 2009: Problem: someone used red matter to create a singularity, which sucked in the Narada and caused it to travel back in time. Solution: someone should use "red matter" to create a singularity and suck the Narada into it. Good casting though! (ID is much better, and I am more than prepared to defend that statement.)
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Jun 2, 2023 17:34
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:But just try and approach Wrath Of Khan as “Space Seed: Part 2”. It doesn’t work! no-one cares about the Chekov continuity problem
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Jun 2, 2023 18:45
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The sequel to Space Seed would be an episode where someone actually checks in on Khan and the augments to see how they're handling life on the paradise planet. Instead, Wrath of Khan is a criticism of the Star Trek formula - the whole deal where the Enterprise identifies a problem, comes up with a solution in an hour or so, and then leaves. They never bother to check back in. That's why the recurring plot element of WoK is Kirk continually being shown the consequences of his actions - in the TV show, that basically never happened. Khan's role in WoK could have also been filled by any number of TOS characters or societies that Kirk "helped" and left. Notice that they never mention Khan's specific backstory in WoK - no mention that he was a conqueror, or that he's been genetically altered. He's just one example of the many they could have used for this story.
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Jun 2, 2023 18:58
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:There aren’t any good Star Trek movies, because they are invariably either Not Good or Not “Star Trek” (in the sense that they might resemble the TV series at all). In that vein, the true sequel to TMP is the back to the future ride at universal studios, and I'd argue 2009 is at least a star wars prequel. The OG star trek movies remind me of Paramount Sitcoms, or at least 3 4 and 5 do. They are the lost "St. Elsewhere" movies and include Special Guest Star Christopher Lloyd from Taxi. Or, possibly, the whole series from 2 onward is simply a fantasy concocted by Ricardo Montalbon and his magician friend, Tattoo, including the morose, ironic twist lesson where Kirk's son dies as a result of saving Spock.
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Jun 2, 2023 21:05
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Tequila Bob posted:Notice that they never mention Khan's specific backstory in WoK - no mention that he was a conqueror, or that he's been genetically altered. This is categorically untrue. Star Trek II's script posted:TERRELL
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Jun 3, 2023 01:26
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Ah, good! I had forgotten that conversation. Thanks for the correction!
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Jun 3, 2023 05:05
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Wrath of Khan is the best Trek movie because its not just a good trek movie, its a good movie in general. It is excellently written, directed, acted, scored (so good Horner reused it a few times, most notably Aliens) and the effects look amazing even now. If Wrath of Khan was the only Trek media it would be still considered one of the best Sci-fi films ever made. You do not need to see Space Seed to understand it, the storytelling is so good you understand what Khan's motivation is just from the story you see before you. The Undiscovered Country has a lot of that, and gets bonus points for being about aging, but you really need to understand Star Trek, at least from the films, in order to get the film. Anyways, my rankings are Wrath of Khan Undiscovered Country Voyage Home First Contact Search for Spock The Motion Picture Beyond Star Trek 2009 Insurrection Final Frontier Nemesis Into Darkness I honestly think Final Frontier was written around the line "What does god need with a starship?", because that line is so great, so perfect, it feels like its from another movie. Also "taking away pain" is my least favorite weird sci fi alien power, What does that mean? Now i'm no longer sad about my dog dying when i was 8! I'm a better person now!
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Aug 2, 2023 05:31
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Apparently Generations was so mediocre it was forgotten completely. Actually that's by far my least favorite movie, partly because of the pathetic death they gave Kirk (killed by a footbridge in the Paramount backlot? gently caress you) and partly because it kinda makes the ending of Undiscovered Country less meaningful. The TOS crew had an excellent final voyage and sendoff, there was no need to drag them back to try and lend credibility to the inferior crew as they embarked on their string of inferior movies.
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Sep 18, 2023 14:20
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I can't believe i forgot Generations. It's not bad, its just kind of forgettable. People say Insurrection feels like a 2 hour TNG episode, I think that's more accurate for Generations. It almost feels like Paramount didn't trust TNG cast to have a movie, so they needed to bring in Kirk to get people to watch it. I know there were people who really wanted to see Kirk and Picard meet, but my memory of that was that very early on in TNGs run, by the later seasons TNG was popular and accepted by Trek fans generally they didn''t need to dip into TOS stuff. I'd probably put it just behind JJ Trek.
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Sep 19, 2023 01:23
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Do try to remember that they started filming Generations more or less immediately after TNG wrapped while they were also getting DS9 and VOY up and running. It came out during the absolute peak of Star Trek production. Something had to give, and that thing was Generations. The script and production basically came together over a summer under people who were already overworked. That's why they reuse all the TNG sets, it has the TNG show feel, and the uniforms are all kinds of mismatched. It's kind-of a miracle it's watchable at all. Still dogshit though. The TNG cast ultimately got done very dirty by bad scripts that did not play to their strengths as an ensemble, at all.
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Sep 19, 2023 11:59
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twistedmentat posted:I can't believe i forgot Generations. It's not bad, its just kind of forgettable. Tee hee.
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Sep 19, 2023 16:39
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Uncle Lloyd posted:(killed by a footbridge in the Paramount backlot? gently caress you) Uh, that wasn't a backlot. Generations did extensive shooting, both originally and when the ending was re-shot, in the Valley of Fire in Nevada. mind the walrus posted:Do try to remember that they started filming Generations more or less immediately after TNG wrapped while they were also getting DS9 and VOY up and running. It came out during the absolute peak of Star Trek production. Something had to give, and that thing was Generations. Your timeline is a little bit off. DS9 was well into its second season when Generations was being filmed. The TNG cast got a week and a half off after filming on All Good Things... wrapped, which allowed for the filming of the Enterprise-B prologue and the renovations to the Bridge and Engineering sets (plus the construction of Stellar Cartography, which Herman Zimmerman totally botched). Generations and All Good Things... were written at essentially the same time, though, and Berman and Braga note in the DVD commentary that they were so exhausted that they would sometimes forget which script they were working on.
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Sep 21, 2023 05:34
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twistedmentat posted:I honestly think Final Frontier was written around the line "What does god need with a starship?", because that line is so great, so perfect, it feels like its from another movie. Also "taking away pain" is my least favorite weird sci fi alien power, What does that mean? Now i'm no longer sad about my dog dying when i was 8! I'm a better person now! I've never liked Final Frontier, it's easily the worst Star Trek movie. We know that the "taking away pain" thing is a choice, Bones chooses to keep his after all, Spock and Bones aside, the entire TOS team betray Kirk and Starfleet for what... Choosing to feel good? mind the walrus posted:That's why they reuse all the TNG sets, it has the TNG show feel, and the uniforms are all kinds of mismatched. It's kind-of a miracle it's watchable at all. The DS9 looking uniforms they wore were literally the DS9 uniforms, Riker is wearing Sisko's costume, Geordi is wearing O'Briens. Here's a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUUFVIS3SB0
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Sep 21, 2023 20:16
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I like the use of the DS9 uniforms in Generations. It works into the sense of being at a point of transition that's running though the film. From the TOS movies into TNG and from the TNG series into the post TNG era. The destruction of the Enterprise D, the death of Kirk, etc. Shame they weren't tailored to fit the actors though. Once you start to notice it, it's really hard not to see. Also shame about how much of the rest of the movie isn't very good.
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Sep 21, 2023 20:43
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Timby posted:Your timeline is a little bit off. DS9 was well into its second season when Generations was being filmed. The TNG cast got a week and a half off after filming on All Good Things... wrapped, which allowed for the filming of the Enterprise-B prologue and the renovations to the Bridge and Engineering sets (plus the construction of Stellar Cartography, which Herman Zimmerman totally botched). BooDooBoo posted:We know that the "taking away pain" thing is a choice, Bones chooses to keep his after all, Spock and Bones aside, the entire TOS team betray Kirk and Starfleet for what... Choosing to feel good? Cerv posted:I like the use of the DS9 uniforms in Generations. It works into the sense of being at a point of transition that's running though the film. It's still a fun nonsense watch with friends though, which is why it's still on the upper end of bad Trek movies.
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Sep 21, 2023 20:52
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I hate Generations for the missed opportunity. Picard found Kirk in what was essentially his "happy place." Instead of a barn it should have been the old bridge of the Enterprise*. Picard having to convince Kirk that the adventure he was seeing wasn't real would have played out much better than what they had. *With Shatner as Kirk but with a younger bridge crew just to enforce the unreality of it all. That way when he says "It was fun", there's a more weight to the line, especially if it looked like Kirk's adventure was going to derail Picard's mission.
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Sep 21, 2023 23:51
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Also it needed a better reason for the two to team up. Like they needed to do something more related to captaining a starship rather then just punching this dude.
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Sep 22, 2023 01:27
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A cynical part of me likes to think the taking away pain thing comes from all these fancy hollywood people going to see therapists, and they're trying to get to the bottom of why they're millionaires who do too many drugs and sleep with too many women half their age. It turns out its because they were forced to work at the dad's barbershop and missed the prom or they accidentally killed their dog when they pulled out of the driveway the first time they were allowed to take the car out.
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Sep 25, 2023 08:28
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Great The Wrath of Khan First Contact The Voyage Home Beyond Good The Undiscovered Country The Search for Spock Star Trek '09 The first half of Into Darkness Okay Insurrection The Motion Picture The Final Frontier Generations Bad Nemesis Awful The second half of Into Darkness
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Sep 25, 2023 21:01
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Darth Brooks posted:I hate Generations for the missed opportunity. Picard found Kirk in what was essentially his "happy place." Instead of a barn it should have been the old bridge of the Enterprise*. Picard having to convince Kirk that the adventure he was seeing wasn't real would have played out much better than what they had. I did like the observation of how bizarre it was that the best thing Picard can imagine is a Victorian era Christmas. He’s not English, Christian, or from the 1800s (although to be fair the scene with his nephew is good.) One of the most fun things to come from the film are YouTube edits where Picard uses the power of the Nexus to travel to when he first meets Soran to have him immediately arrested.
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Sep 26, 2023 17:45
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nine-gear crow posted:Great Yeah its this, although Undiscovered Country could possibly get bumped up one
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Sep 26, 2023 20:43
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TUC is the best Star Trek movie that feels like Star Trek the TV show, but that ironically makes it less palatable to most audiences
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Sep 26, 2023 22:44
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1. Wrath of Khan--this is indisputable. Someone upthread said something about this not merely being the best Trek movie, it's one of the best sci-fi movies ever made. Hard agree. Also best submarine flick ever made, get hosed Das Boot. 2. The Undiscovered Country--DS9 is my favorite Trek for, among other reasons, all the geopolitics-in-space. End of the Cold War reskinned as Trek is awesome. Sulu kicks rear end, too: "Fly her apart, then!" and "Target that explosion and fire  " Also, I discovered The Sound of Music late in life and love Plummer as Chang. 3. The Motion Picture--Probably my most controversial ranking, I love this movie even it's just a bit too ambitious. Poor man's 2001, but more entertaining at the least. Most beautiful ship porn in all of Trekdom. 4. First Contact--Fun and more action-y while still feeling like Trek. Cochrane blasting off on his first faster-than-light flight to Steppenwolf's Magic Carpet Ride is loving awesome. -a bit of a gap here- 5. Search for Spock--"Don't call me tiny," Scotty sabotaging the Great Experiment (I crack up just thinking about the sputtering fart noise the Excelsior makes when the transwarp fails). But it just seems like a really forced retcon after Wrath. 6. Final Frontier--I know this movie is garbage but the entire scene at Sha-ka-ree makes it worthwhile. "What does God need with a starship?," then blowing up "God" with Photon torpedoes? In. 7. Beyond--the only of the reboots that's palatable at all. Agree with goon upthread that it certainly had the most TOS feel to it, campy but earnest fun. Destroying an armada with Sabotage was so dumb but I loving loved it. -big ol' gap here- 8. Insurrection--this movie is bad but wasn't so bad it couldn't entertain my middle-school self. Should've just been a Dominion War movie if the studio was wanting action. 9. Nemesis--this was is so bad even my middle-school self couldn't be fooled. What the gently caress. 10. Star Trek--whatever this is, it's not what I signed up for. 11. Into Darkness--I believe this is the only time I ever left a movie angry, and played a big part in the decline of my Trek fandom. I loved Trek as a kid, got older and busier so couldn't invest as much time into the hobby(?), Into Darkness reminded me that "all good things must come to an end." And to add to the earlier joke, I did quite literally forget about Generations. It's sandwiched between Final Frontier and Beyond. Judgy Fucker fucked around with this message at 13:17 on Sep 27, 2023 |
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Sep 27, 2023 13:14
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you also forgot Voyage Home, but that's clearly so up there on the top spot we can't even see it
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Sep 28, 2023 10:54
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Lol that's what I get for trying to rush out a big-ish post right before work. Another controversial ranking: Voyage Home goes in the middle-tier. I understand I'm in the minority so not gonna go out on a limb and say it's a bad movie, but it sure isn't for me. Except for Spock nailing the punk on the bus. And Scotty talking into the mouse. And McCoy being the God who gave that poor old woman new kidneys. Okay maybe I like it a bit more than I thought.
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Sep 28, 2023 15:23
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