Rank the Star Trek Movies From Best to Worst

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Farmer Crack-Ass: Jan 2, 2001; this is me posting irl

It is an indictment on our society that it's always "let's make another Wrath of Khan" and never "let's make another The Voyage Home"

Like, loving come on, even post-2009 I have had conversations which included a "well, I've only seen one of the Star Trek movies..." "was it the one with the whales?" "omg how did you know??" moment. It was the most successful Trek movie prior to 2009.

And I'm sure some dipshit producer or writer would be all "but, but, what about First Contact, that had the time travel" and motherfucker it is not about the time travel :rant:

# ? Sep 28, 2023 16:26

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# ? May 8, 2024 22:13

mind the walrus: Sep 22, 2006

Well aside from the fact that they showed a remarkable 20 year restraint in waiting to do a "Kirk/Spock get flummoxed by 20th Century living" plot-- no I don't really count all the backdoor pilots TOS did-- it would be really depressing to send like, Kelvin-Kirk/Spock back to the 2020s and watch Simon Pegg get frustrated by Siri while Zoe Saldana puts out a call on TikTok to save the day, and that's before you get into all the nerds who would want to know how this squared with the Eugenics Wars and WWIII and we'd be back into other NuTrek sludge like SNW before you know it.

# ? Sep 28, 2023 22:23

Farmer Crack-Ass: Jan 2, 2001; this is me posting irl

mind the walrus posted:

Well aside from the fact that they showed a remarkable 20 year restraint in waiting to do a "Kirk/Spock get flummoxed by 20th Century living" plot-- no I don't really count all the backdoor pilots TOS did-- it would be really depressing to send like, Kelvin-Kirk/Spock back to the 2020s and watch Simon Pegg get frustrated by Siri while Zoe Saldana puts out a call on TikTok to save the day, and that's before you get into all the nerds who would want to know how this squared with the Eugenics Wars and WWIII and we'd be back into other NuTrek sludge like SNW before you know it.

??? The City on the Edge of Forever wasn't a "backdoor pilot", neither was A Piece of the Action.

Also I know I didn't make it clear in my prior post but I'm not so much arguing for the "fish out of water" plot as I am for the "light-hearted romp where nobody gets into a brawl" vibe, I don't really care whether it's a time-travel or not.

# ? Sep 28, 2023 23:16

SidneyIsTheKiller: Jul 16, 2019; I did fall asleep reading a particularly erotic chapter
in my grandmother's journal.

She wrote very detailed descriptions of her experiences...

Farmer Crack-rear end posted:

It is an indictment on our society that it's always "let's make another Wrath of Khan" and never "let's make another The Voyage Home"

Like, loving come on, even post-2009 I have had conversations which included a "well, I've only seen one of the Star Trek movies..." "was it the one with the whales?" "omg how did you know??" moment. It was the most successful Trek movie prior to 2009.

And I'm sure some dipshit producer or writer would be all "but, but, what about First Contact, that had the time travel" and motherfucker it is not about the time travel

They might not capture the specific vibe you're looking for (or be all that successful at it besides), but Star Treks V, Insurrection, and Beyond were all explicit attempts at "doing another Voyage Home" to varying degrees. What's most surprising is that it seems First Contact wasn't, aside from the obvious "it's been a while since we did time travel."

The Voyage Home also made it more or less mandatory for every Star Trek movie to go for some goofy humor at some point. Even the relatively serious Star Trek VI had Uhura speaking medieval Klingon over the airwaves to some drunk Klingon outpost guards.

# ? Sep 29, 2023 00:35

mind the walrus: Sep 22, 2006

Farmer Crack-rear end posted:

??? The City on the Edge of Forever wasn't a "backdoor pilot", neither was A Piece of the Action.

Don't be dense, the appeal of TVH was seeing TOS characters in then-modern day 1986. "Oh look honey it's the Kirk from when we were kids and oh my gosh he's ordering a Michelob!" TOS episodes appropriating spare backlot sets and costumes were not about that, even the excellent City on the Edge of Forever.

quote:

Also I know I didn't make it clear in my prior post but I'm not so much arguing for the "fish out of water" plot as I am for the "light-hearted romp where nobody gets into a brawl" vibe, I don't really care whether it's a time-travel or not.

That's fair and I agree with it. But yeah you don't have to dig far to see that after TUC all Hollywood wanted was for Trek to be an action franchise. As absolute trash as it is, it's a bit of a miracle Insurrection got made the way it did.

# ? Sep 29, 2023 02:37

SidneyIsTheKiller: Jul 16, 2019; I did fall asleep reading a particularly erotic chapter
in my grandmother's journal.

She wrote very detailed descriptions of her experiences...

The term "backdoor pilot" is often used to refer to an episode of a TV show that is a thinly veiled test run for a possible spinoff series, which is what I think confused Farmer Crack-rear end.

# ? Sep 29, 2023 02:58

Farmer Crack-Ass: Jan 2, 2001; this is me posting irl

yeah i'm really curious to know what mind the walrus's definition of "backdoor pilot" is lol

# ? Sep 29, 2023 23:28

mind the walrus: Sep 22, 2006

# ? Sep 29, 2023 23:36

Farmer Crack-Ass: Jan 2, 2001; this is me posting irl

SidneyIsTheKiller posted:

They might not capture the specific vibe you're looking for (or be all that successful at it besides), but Star Treks V, Insurrection, and Beyond were all explicit attempts at "doing another Voyage Home" to varying degrees.

I know there was definitely a conscious push for more levity in TFF and Insurrection but I wouldn't call any of those (no, not even TFF) an attempt to "do another The Voyage Home." TVH had a very conscious objective going in of nobody throwing punches and nobody getting killed*. The only time a phaser gets fired is to melt a door lock. The climax of the movie is not a fight.

For a long time it was the most successful Star Trek movie, but Paramount would never dare to try and make another one like it. And that's a shame.

*i'm sure some pedant will arrive to say "well actually there's just no way that nobody got killed between all those starships and spacecraft getting disabled, and the planet's power grid getting hosed up" and i don't give a cold gently caress

# ? Sep 29, 2023 23:40

Farmer Crack-Ass: Jan 2, 2001; this is me posting irl

mind the walrus posted:

okay cool but...

mind the walrus posted:

Well aside from the fact that they showed a remarkable 20 year restraint in waiting to do a "Kirk/Spock get flummoxed by 20th Century living" plot-- no I don't really count all the backdoor pilots TOS did--

backdoor pilots plural following your remark about 'K/S flummoxed by 20th century living', especially in the context of me wishing they'd ever do another TVH-like movie, suggests that you thought the other episodes where they did the fish out of water thing were also backdoor pilots

unless you had some other episodes in mind??

honestly this really all comes down to me being confused over your phrase "all the backdoor pilots TOS did" and i'm not aware of any other than Assignment: Earth

# ? Sep 29, 2023 23:45

twistedmentat: Nov 21, 2003; Its my party
and I'll die if
I want to

You know whats dumb about Insurrection? One of the things the stupid wanted to do with it was make a fun, light hearted adventure like TVH. Thats why there's the plot points about everyone getting younger and some more jokey stuff like the boobs comment.

# ? Sep 30, 2023 07:29

Twenty Four: Dec 21, 2008

twistedmentat posted:

You know whats dumb about Insurrection? One of the things the stupid wanted to do with it was make a fun, light hearted adventure like TVH. Thats why there's the plot points about everyone getting younger and some more jokey stuff like the boobs comment.

I'm pretty confident "studio" accidentally got autocorrected or whatever to "stupid" here and it's drat funny.

# ? Sep 30, 2023 13:00

Feldegast42: Oct 29, 2011; COMMENCE THE RITE OF SHITPOSTING

I haven't seen Insurrection since I was a kid but I didn't think it was that bad, just pretty average. Not as good as First Contact but not as horrible as Nemesis.

# ? Sep 30, 2023 15:32

Timby: Dec 23, 2006; Your mother!

Feldegast42 posted:

I haven't seen Insurrection since I was a kid but I didn't think it was that bad, just pretty average. Not as good as First Contact but not as horrible as Nemesis.

Insurrection's biggest problem is that its plot requires the crew of the Enterprise to act like absolute morons.

(The second-biggest problem was giving Stewart an associate producer title and giving him near-full creative control on the script, because he couldn't make up his mind as to what kind of movie he wanted it to be.)

# ? Oct 1, 2023 01:16

twistedmentat: Nov 21, 2003; Its my party
and I'll die if
I want to

Twenty Four posted:

I'm pretty confident "studio" accidentally got autocorrected or whatever to "stupid" here and it's drat funny.

I didn't even notice, but yea that's hilarious.

When seeing Insurrection in the theater, when it was said the Son'ah make Ketracel White, this woman in the theater when "OH NO!" really really loudly. Yea I think she was expecting a different movie than what we got.

# ? Oct 1, 2023 16:53

SidneyIsTheKiller: Jul 16, 2019; I did fall asleep reading a particularly erotic chapter
in my grandmother's journal.

She wrote very detailed descriptions of her experiences...

Farmer Crack-rear end posted:

I know there was definitely a conscious push for more levity in TFF and Insurrection but I wouldn't call any of those (no, not even TFF) an attempt to "do another The Voyage Home." TVH had a very conscious objective going in of nobody throwing punches and nobody getting killed*. The only time a phaser gets fired is to melt a door lock. The climax of the movie is not a fight.

For a long time it was the most successful Star Trek movie, but Paramount would never dare to try and make another one like it. And that's a shame.

I'm sympathetic to this sentiment but it really does feel like a lot to ask of a mainstream sci-fi adventure crowd-pleaser (especially one with blockbuster aspirations) to remove virtually all violence and conflict. Even Back to the Future has Biff threatening people and getting punched. I think The Voyage Home got away with it by making the stakes colossally huge in compensation.

To be super-clear about Insurrection, it was literally one of that project's foundational concepts to be "The Voyage Home for The Next Generation." They weren't unaware of the "low conflict" side of the equation, but they thought the 'Heart of Darkness'-inspired storyline had legs (they started to refer to it as "Heart of Lightness") and at the time there was a perceived audience demand for more action (I suspect sci-fi fans were getting antsy after 15 years without a Star Wars movie).

Timby posted:

Insurrection's biggest problem is that its plot requires the crew of the Enterprise to act like absolute morons.

I don't have a categorical objection to the crew acting like idiots on principle alone (gently caress, I like "The Naked Now") but it's another one of those things that make Insurrection feel like "just an episode": the humor's based entirely on the crew acting out of character. We go to see these movies in large part because we miss these characters, so it grates a bit if we have to see them not be themselves.

# ? Oct 2, 2023 19:06

Hyrax Attack!: Jan 13, 2009; We demand to be taken seriously

Feldegast42 posted:

I haven't seen Insurrection since I was a kid but I didn't think it was that bad, just pretty average. Not as good as First Contact but not as horrible as Nemesis.

My dad was cool about taking his dumb kid to movies in which he had zero interest without complaint but Insurrection was bad enough he began checking reviews a little more, for both our sakes.

Timby posted:

Insurrection's biggest problem is that its plot requires the crew of the Enterprise to act like absolute morons.

(The second-biggest problem was giving Stewart an associate producer title and giving him near-full creative control on the script, because he couldn't make up his mind as to what kind of movie he wanted it to be.)

I forget where I read it and not sure if it�s just a theory but is there truth a fundamental problem with Picard is Patrick Stewart was given excessive creative control to be onboard & while one of our finest actors, he is not a writer and has a poor grasp of storytelling & what made his character beloved? Would explain clunky scenes at the bar & weird Picard motivations.

# ? Oct 5, 2023 02:34

Name Change: Oct 9, 2005

Insurrection is the gang completely running out of ideas, time, and money. It feels like an episode of the show because it's filmed like one (cheaply and quickly). That's most of the commonality.

# ? Oct 5, 2023 11:51

Timby: Dec 23, 2006; Your mother!

Name Change posted:

Insurrection is the gang completely running out of ideas, time, and money. It feels like an episode of the show because it's filmed like one (cheaply and quickly). That's most of the commonality.

Insurrection was the most expensive Trek movie until 2009.

# ? Oct 5, 2023 15:01

egon_beeblebrox: Mar 1, 2008; WILL AMOUNT TO NOTHING IN LIFE.

Timby posted:

Insurrection was the most expensive Trek movie until 2009.

weird

# ? Oct 5, 2023 16:33

Cerv: Sep 14, 2004; This is a silly post with little news value.

Timby posted:

Insurrection was the most expensive Trek movie until 2009.

was that as a result of the TNG recurring cast all being able to demand large fees to come back?

# ? Oct 5, 2023 17:22

Name Change: Oct 9, 2005

Timby posted:

Insurrection was the most expensive Trek movie until 2009.

And yet

The money must have gone into catering.

# ? Oct 5, 2023 21:31

Timby: Dec 23, 2006; Your mother!

Cerv posted:

was that as a result of the TNG recurring cast all being able to demand large fees to come back?

It was largely due to extensive location shooting, and then Frakes insisting that they rebuild the entire goddamn Ba'ku village when some 30 minutes or so of re-shoots were ordered. The village was an incredibly expensive set, having its own plumbing and everything.

# ? Oct 6, 2023 00:24

Farmer Crack-Ass: Jan 2, 2001; this is me posting irl

Name Change posted:

And yet

The money must have gone into catering.

This scene brought to you by Thrustmaster! :waycool:

_{(actually it was a Gravis Blackhawk, but Thrustmaster is funnier)}

# ? Oct 6, 2023 06:46

KurdtLives: Dec 22, 2004; Ladies and She-Hulks can't resist Murdock's Big Hallway Energy

Recommending The Center Seat documentary series on Prime to you all, it covers all of Trek up to the end of Enterprise. It is the same folks who do Icons Unearthed.

mind the walrus posted:

The script and production basically came together over a summer under people who were already overworked. That's why they reuse all the TNG sets, it has the TNG show feel, and the uniforms are all kinds of mismatched. It's kind-of a miracle it's watchable at all.

Still dogshit though. The TNG cast ultimately got done very dirty by bad scripts that did not play to their strengths as an ensemble, at all.

Besides having to write this as they wrote "All Good Things", Moore and Braga got a laundry list of requirements from Paramount (and maybe Berman too): Klingons had to show up, Kirk had to be in it, blow up the Enterprise D, etc. They were a great writing duo and were admittedly feeling themselves so they decided to make their lives harder by avoiding time travel as the way to have Kirk be in the movie, so we got the not-quite-explained-enough Nexus.

Hyrax Attack! posted:

I did like the observation of how bizarre it was that the best thing Picard can imagine is a Victorian era Christmas. He�s not English, Christian, or from the 1800s (although to be fair the scene with his nephew is good.)

It's not Victorian era its just the style of the house and I guess some of the fashion but I am pretty sure there are subtle techy things in the house. Unless I am misremembering. The ornaments with the little starbursts I think are supposed to be both futuristic xmasness and Picard subconscious guilt.

SidneyIsTheKiller posted:

To be super-clear about Insurrection, it was literally one of that project's foundational concepts to be "The Voyage Home for The Next Generation." They weren't unaware of the "low conflict" side of the equation, but they thought the 'Heart of Darkness'-inspired storyline had legs (they started to refer to it as "Heart of Lightness") and at the time there was a perceived audience demand for more action (I suspect sci-fi fans were getting antsy after 15 years without a Star Wars movie).

I never read the leaked autobiography of Michael Piller but I thought it went that he was like "Let's make this one for Gene, something like Voyage Home" but then the studio/Stewart were like "NO FIRST CONTACT DID GOOD IT HAD PEW PEW U NEED PEW PEW" so then he tacked towards Heart of Darkness, some how we got a weird mix of the two ideas.

Name Change posted:

And yet

The money must have gone into catering.

I don't mind that there is a manual steering column on a starship. I mind that
a. It is very obviously a mid-tier gaming joystick
b. the column it rests on is at an awkward height and in the middle of the bridge, so Riker just has to awkwardly hunch over it which seems like the worst possible way to use a joystick
c. this is presented as some sort of badass thing OOOOOOOO isn't Riker so tough and cool

# ? Nov 12, 2023 08:25

twistedmentat: Nov 21, 2003; Its my party
and I'll die if
I want to

Time Travel would of been a MUCH better idea to bring Kirk into the 24th century. Maybe they have Kirk rescuing people from an exploding ship or something and he refuses to leave until everyone else is off and then when it goes KABOOM it messes up his transporter signal and it looks like he's lost, but he materializes in the 24th century. It would of been way more interesting if he was actually aboard the D and got to interact with the rest of the cast. He could flirt with Bev and Troi, bro up with Riker and have some meaningful talks with Worf about learning to let go of hate, and also "hey your grandfather was my defense attorney after they thought I killed Gorkon" and Worf goes "yes, i was named after him because he was considered a great man who served the empire Honourably"

But Shatner needs to ride a horse.

# ? Nov 12, 2023 19:11

Cerv: Sep 14, 2004; This is a silly post with little news value.

Kirk was moved from one point in time to another point in time.
you might not like the concept of the Nexus, and would've preferred a different method like another warpspeed slingshot around the sun, but can you really argue that it wasn't just a method of time travel. plot wise anyway.

# ? Nov 12, 2023 21:25

Cerv: Sep 14, 2004; This is a silly post with little news value.

KurdtLives posted:

It's not Victorian era its just the style of the house and I guess some of the fashion but I am pretty sure there are subtle techy things in the house. Unless I am misremembering. The ornaments with the little starbursts I think are supposed to be both futuristic xmasness and Picard subconscious guilt.

it is just a style thing.
when the kids are unwrapping their gifts one has a plastic toy spaceship right in the foreground.

# ? Nov 12, 2023 21:36

Sanguinia: Jan 1, 2012; ~Everybody wants to be a cat~
~Because a cat's the only cat~
~Who knows where its at~

Farmer Crack-rear end posted:

It is an indictment on our society that it's always "let's make another Wrath of Khan" and never "let's make another The Voyage Home"

Monkeys Paw curls a finger, Picard Season 2 is greenlit.

# ? Nov 14, 2023 22:32

David D. Davidson: Nov 17, 2012; Orca lady?

Sanguinia posted:

Monkeys Paw curls a finger, Picard Season 2 is greenlit.

They just finished season 3.

# ? Nov 15, 2023 01:36

Farmer Crack-Ass: Jan 2, 2001; this is me posting irl

Sanguinia posted:

Monkeys Paw curls a finger, Picard Season 2 is greenlit.

okay so when i say "let's make another The Voyage Home", i don't mean "time travel story where the main characters are fish out of water"

i mean something in the spirit of the production of TVH, where Leonard Nimoy said something along the lines of 'no bad guy, no fist fights, nobody gets killed, it's just a nice movie and maybe we say something along the way'

# ? Nov 15, 2023 01:43

Farmer Crack-Ass: Jan 2, 2001; this is me posting irl

KurdtLives posted:

I never read the leaked autobiography of Michael Piller but I thought it went that he was like "Let's make this one for Gene, something like Voyage Home" but then the studio/Stewart were like "NO FIRST CONTACT DID GOOD IT HAD PEW PEW U NEED PEW PEW" so then he tacked towards Heart of Darkness, some how we got a weird mix of the two ideas.

went and opened my copy of FadeIn and the following excerpts from near the beginning seem most relevant:

(from a section titled March 1997)

quote:

From the outset, Rick and I agreed it was time to throw a curveball. Every big league pitcher knows you can�t keep throwing your fastball if you want to be successful. The last movie had been a fastball and a good one, complete with great space monsters (the Borg) and a war to save the universe. It would be a mistake, we decided, to try in this movie to �out-Borg the Borg.� Instead, we agreed, this time around we should do something quirkier, lighter, more fun. The model Rick quoted most often was Star Trek: The Voyage Home , the fourth and most successful film in the series -- a time-travel story in which Kirk and crew return to 20th century Earth to save an extinct species of whales. Not a single weapon was fired in that film; it was a comedy with social conscience. Times have changed and we knew there�d have to be weapons fired in the new movie. But Rick wanted a story closer in spirit to the whale movie and that was fine with me.

...

So I was in front of the bathroom mirror cursing to myself about the network�s youth obsession as I sprayed Rogaine on my bald spot when my mind made an unexpected jump to the Star Trek assignment. We�re obsessed with youth, I thought. Looking young, feeling young, selling to the young. When was the last time anybody did a fountain of youth story? I couldn�t remember. And I smiled.

(from a section titled April 1997)

quote:

I came back to Rick with a premise I called �Heart of Lightness.� I told him we�d be using a structure based on Heart of Darkness, but that the trip �up the river� would lead Picard and his crew on a very different kind of adventure.
�We open at Starfleet Academy in Picard�s youth,� I told him, �Establishing Picard as a curly-haired, high-spirited cadet. We give him a best friend, another cadet who is as close to Picard as any man has ever been and ever will be.
�Flash forward to the present day and find adult Picard being given a mission by Starfleet Command. His old friend is now a wanted man -- he�s been attacking ships in an unexplored region of space and no one knows why. Picard has to track him down and if necessary, kill him.
�The Enterprise sets off through this mysterious region and the crew begins to act in unusual ways. We don�t know why yet. After several curious incidents, they finally find the hiding place of Picard�s old friend. Picard transports down to the planet and discovers that he looks exactly the same as he did at the Academy! We ultimately learn that this is a fountain of youth and somebody is trying to steal it from the people who live there. Picard�s friend has been defending the natives on the planet.�
I waited a beat and tried to gauge his reaction. If he�d hated it, his mouth would have twisted into a frown by now. It wasn�t twisted at all. Not up. Not down. Even. He just looked at me and nodded. �I love it,� he said.

so the TVH and the Heart of Darkness stuff was in from the beginning

but it's still telling that even as far back as 1997 - only eleven years after TVH came out - Piller and Berman are both thinking "well, we can't actually do a TVH any more, but i guess we can maybe make the violence more cheerful or something"

edit: the Patrick Stewart stuff is later and that's a whole lot of back and forth

# ? Nov 15, 2023 01:52

nine-gear crow: Aug 10, 2013

KurdtLives posted:

I don't mind that there is a manual steering column on a starship. I mind that
a. It is very obviously a mid-tier gaming joystick
b. the column it rests on is at an awkward height and in the middle of the bridge, so Riker just has to awkwardly hunch over it which seems like the worst possible way to use a joystick
c. this is presented as some sort of badass thing OOOOOOOO isn't Riker so tough and cool

The Manual Steering Column is probably at perfectly normal height for an average sized human being and is skewed by the fact that Jonathan Frakes is loving gigantic.

# ? Nov 15, 2023 04:00

McSpanky: Jan 16, 2005

But the scene was designed for Frakes :psyduck:

# ? Nov 15, 2023 04:59

nine-gear crow: Aug 10, 2013

McSpanky posted:

But the scene was designed for Frakes

Frakes didn't build the set though. Dude had to work with what he had to work with :shrug:

# ? Nov 15, 2023 05:47

Farmer Crack-Ass: Jan 2, 2001; this is me posting irl

nine-gear crow posted:

Frakes didn't build the set though. Dude had to work with what he had to work with

please don't troll

# ? Nov 16, 2023 01:55

KurdtLives: Dec 22, 2004; Ladies and She-Hulks can't resist Murdock's Big Hallway Energy

nine-gear crow posted:

The Manual Steering Column is probably at perfectly normal height for an average sized human being and is skewed by the fact that Jonathan Frakes is loving gigantic.

Either way, standing on a wobbly maneuvering spaceship instead of being stabilized in a chair is dumb

Farmer Crack-rear end posted:

went and opened my copy of FadeIn and the following excerpts from near the beginning seem most relevant:

(from a section titled March 1997)

(from a section titled April 1997)

so the TVH and the Heart of Darkness stuff was in from the beginning

but it's still telling that even as far back as 1997 - only eleven years after TVH came out - Piller and Berman are both thinking "well, we can't actually do a TVH any more, but i guess we can maybe make the violence more cheerful or something"

edit: the Patrick Stewart stuff is later and that's a whole lot of back and forth

Thanks, it is a shame the concept wasn't pulled off. They probably should of just done a Dominion War movie

# ? Nov 27, 2023 03:21

Mano: Jul 11, 2012

KurdtLives posted:

Either way, standing on a wobbly maneuvering spaceship instead of being stabilized in a chair is dumb

Have you ever thought about the chairs not having seat belts?

# ? Nov 27, 2023 10:16

twistedmentat: Nov 21, 2003; Its my party
and I'll die if
I want to

KurdtLives posted:

Either way, standing on a wobbly maneuvering spaceship instead of being stabilized in a chair is dumb

Thanks, it is a shame the concept wasn't pulled off. They probably should of just done a Dominion War movie

Can't do that, we need to appeal to people who don't watch Star Trek and if we include too much stuff from the current TV shows, they'll be confused!

# ? Nov 27, 2023 17:49

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# ? May 8, 2024 22:13

Farmer Crack-Ass: Jan 2, 2001; this is me posting irl

KurdtLives posted:

Thanks, it is a shame the concept wasn't pulled off. They probably should of just done a Dominion War movie

It's really depressing that a tangent that started with "it really reflects poorly on us as a society that we cannot even imagine making another The Voyage Home" ends up at "they should have done a whole Star Trek movie about war"

# ? Nov 27, 2023 19:12

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