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Bucnasti posted:Didn't the Maori's win a big settlement from Lego for using a bunch of their mythology and culture in the Bionicle line? That is pretty much exactly what happened. I believe that was the primary reason LEGO completely stopped Bionicle despite it being one of the most popular products they've ever made, and certainly the most popular that wasn't a third party tie-in like LEGO Star Wars etc.
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Feb 17, 2023 22:37
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Can't you not protect things that are older than the telephone?
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Feb 18, 2023 00:01
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I think Maori folks would take offense at the insinuation that they are extinct
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Feb 18, 2023 00:35
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Bucnasti posted:Didn't the Maori's win a big settlement from Lego for using a bunch of their mythology and culture in the Bionicle line?
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Feb 18, 2023 00:42
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So the Maori are Nintendo but for cultural appropriation instead of video games? It seems like they found a way to incorporate their culture.
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Feb 18, 2023 02:00
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I don't believe there was actually a lawsuit between Lego and the Maori Tribes, there was a threat of a lawsuit but they came to an agreement that Lego would stop using Polynesian names in future before it ever went to court, and the words in question were changed for future releases to just vaguely Polynesian-sounding words instead of actual preexisting names.
MikeJF fucked around with this message at 05:09 on Feb 18, 2023 |
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Feb 18, 2023 05:02
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Fruits of the sea posted:I think Maori folks would take offense at the insinuation that they are extinct I think the Maori would need to concede that world myths are in the public domain. If you wanted to make a game where various gods of various world religions and cultures Deathmatch each other at the whims of high schoolers, you can play that today in shin megami tensei.
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Feb 18, 2023 07:43
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So you can copyright a culture?
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Feb 18, 2023 07:47
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MarcusSA posted:So you can copyright a culture? Quite literally the opposite.
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Feb 18, 2023 07:49
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leper khan posted:Quite literally the opposite. Well it seems like they did?
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Feb 18, 2023 07:55
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Please scroll 4 posts up. They settled out of court, the legal system was never even involved and there was certainly no court decision on copyright law.
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Feb 18, 2023 07:57
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MarcusSA posted:Well it seems like they did? Nope. They voiced displeasure and Lego vowed to stop using the material because of the negative press and the wishes of the relevant culture. I don't believe they had a legal obligation to do so.
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Feb 18, 2023 07:58
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:Please scroll 4 posts up. Yes I saw those posts but that’s goon telephone because they clearly say, quote:Our cultural property rights are not theoretical. They are protected and protectable under intellectual property laws, which are generally harmonised throughout the world. They obviously believe it’s protected.
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Feb 18, 2023 07:59
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MarcusSA posted:Yes I saw those posts but that’s goon telephone because they clearly say, You're going back to the original link about the Sami. The people talking about Bionicles are talking about an issue involving the Maori, a different indigenous group. Sami people are in Scandinavia. The Maori are most prominent in New Zealand. Different people, different cultures, different parts of the conversation.
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Feb 18, 2023 09:59
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So can you or can you not copyright a culture
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Feb 18, 2023 10:06
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Tism the Dragon Tickler posted:That is pretty much exactly what happened. I believe that was the primary reason LEGO completely stopped Bionicle despite it being one of the most popular products they've ever made, and certainly the most popular that wasn't a third party tie-in like LEGO Star Wars etc. it was cancelled simply because sales had been declining. the issues with the use of the maori language happened in bionicle's first year (2001) and it wasn't cancelled until 2010. if you look at articles from the time, there was a legal threats, though they seemed to be particularly concerned with the idea that lego was trying to trademark maori words (it wasn't) and the use of 'tohunga' as the name for the villagers, as that's a title that can have spiritual meaning. the controversy also seemingly first arose in relation to a bionicle video game. https://www.theguardian.com/media/2001/may/31/marketingandpr.internationalnews http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/1362435.stm the lawyer who sent the letter to lego discussed it a little here more recently: https://padandpixel.com/myth-maori-and-a-brain-tumor-the-bionicle-saga/ - basically lego told them 'well, you can't legally stop us using these words' (but also remember they weren't actually trying to trademark them like the maori feared), then he wrote back to say 'i'd hoped you'd have more of a social conscience than that' and they had some meetings and lego agreed to stop using 'tohunga' and a few other words, but came to an agreement to keep using the other words (mostly just things like the character with ice powers being named after the maori word for ice). i'm not exactly sure of the etymology or possible spiritual significance of the other words that they stopped using though. there doesn't seem to generally be that much in the way of direct legal protection for indigenous culture under intellectual property laws - there are arguments for how these sort of issues could be covered under laws as-is but they don't seem to be clear cut or well-tested or anything, and some countries have been looking at how to provide stronger ip protections for indigenous cultures. typically the approach in these sorts of disputes seems to be for the indigenous group to assert a right regardless of the underlying legal basis (they might have a legal argument but it seems like it's probably pretty unclear whether it would actually succeed), and then try to negotiate with the offending company because it's bad pr (and potentially a lot of hassle if it does go to court) for square or whoever else to completely ignore them.
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Feb 18, 2023 10:08
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juxtaposition to Nintendo and Sega raising wages, Blizzard announced that it's cutting staff bonuses by 42% https://www.polygon.com/23604013/blizzard-entertainment-mike-ybarra-qa-meeting
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Feb 18, 2023 13:26
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BeanpolePeckerwood posted:juxtaposition to Nintendo and Sega raising wages, Blizzard announced that it's cutting staff bonuses by 42% Also said some poo poo like If top talent doesn't want to come back to working on site they should "Do what makes them happy". So glad I got over the Blizzard brain worms and left that place when I did.
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Feb 18, 2023 15:11
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ninjewtsu posted:So can you or can you not copyright a culture You can not copyright the commons. And neither can the members of those cultures.
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Feb 18, 2023 15:35
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Bucnasti posted:So glad I got over the Blizzard brain worms and left that place when I did. What did it take to get over the worms? What starved them once and for all?
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Feb 19, 2023 09:22
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MarcusSA posted:Yes I saw those posts but that’s goon telephone because they clearly say, they're objecting to specific kinds of clothing and handcrafts being used. if it's anything like their issue with Disney over Frozen 2, its likely that rattling the saber w/r/t legal issues is just a way to get big companies to play ball. its perfectly reasonable to say "hey you should consult with us before stripping our culture for Cool Aesthetics." the frozen 2 stuff ended fairly amicably, with everyone coming out happy. I imagine this will probably go similarly
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Feb 19, 2023 10:10
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Samovar posted:What did it take to get over the worms? What starved them once and for all? It was a lot of things, the final straw was getting passed over for a new position that I was already doing for somebody outside the company. I suddenly realized that there were a lot more people out there willing to eat a lot more poo poo than I was just for the chance to work at Blizzard. I left, still had to eat poo poo for awhile, but I got paid a livable wage for it. Now I'm a lot happier and a lot better paid than I would have been if I had stayed.
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Feb 19, 2023 10:17
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ninjewtsu posted:So can you or can you not copyright a culture Meanwhile indigenous groups worldwide do argue that they should have more legal control over how their traditional designs and cultural practices are copied or depicted - one of their big concerns over the years is quite understandably stopping or minimizing the popular cultural products that take some aspects of their appearance or identity and use them to signify a scary savage "other" the heroes can kill without consequence or ignorant "primitives" the heroes have to trick - and thus have frequently come together and made declarations about how they would like international copyright law to change. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_intellectual_property https://www.amazon.com/Savage-Anxieties-Invention-Western-Civilization/dp/0230338763 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0VdBPkHQow
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Feb 19, 2023 11:33
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Not sure I'm sold on that trailer. Lots of things going on, I guess it's a mixture of documentary footage with fictional elements portrayed by actors. Maybe? The narration is corny as well.
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Feb 19, 2023 11:40
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Thread might be getting off course but I feel compelled to affirm that Exterminate All The Brutes is real good and Raoul Peck is GOATed.
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Feb 19, 2023 12:08
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Anyone got a list of studios that pay out stock RSU's in addition to bonuses? Ones I'm aware of: Amazon Games Tencent Owned Studios Meta/Oculus Game Studios Apple Ones that I assume do: Microsoft EA Ones that I know generally don't: Sony SIE I understand it's a relatively new thing for some companies was just wondering if there was anyone I missed. Note I'm not talking about startups/private companies/options, or royalties. Bucnasti posted:Also said some poo poo like If top talent doesn't want to come back to working on site they should "Do what makes them happy". The work-from-home change got a ton of suits wanting a strong push to return to office. WFH equalized wages across the US, because you got California studios offering SF/LA rates (worst case within 5-10%) to the rest of the country forcing say.. Texas/Washington state studios to play ball or lose out on talent. It's expensive to hire good talent now and a lot of guys will walk if they are forced to RTO. I've seen this firsthand. As long as there are enough studios offering WFH positions. I know SIE was onboard with WFH since I shipped 2 titles with them on schedule WFH. I'm sure Activision/Blizzard probably feels differently, or they are shaking the tree in advance of whatever cutbacks are coming once the Microsoft deal is completed. That's my guess anyways. I should probably ask the ex blizzard guys at work how busy is the Irvine campus right now? I'd assumed they were already partial RTO/hybrid?
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Feb 19, 2023 18:52
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busalover posted:Not sure I'm sold on that trailer. Lots of things going on, I guess it's a mixture of documentary footage with fictional elements portrayed by actors. Maybe? The narration is corny as well.
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Feb 19, 2023 20:09
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Big K of Justice posted:Anyone got a list of studios that pay out stock RSU's in addition to bonuses? Amazon famously doesnt give out bonuses company wide. Most silicon valley tech has a significant portion of your pay in rsu stock e.g. Apple and Meta and has for a long time
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Feb 19, 2023 21:56
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Big K of Justice posted:Anyone got a list of studios that pay out stock RSU's in addition to bonuses? A lot of mobile, especially companies owned by some other tech company, often pay out RSUs.
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Feb 20, 2023 02:36
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BeanpolePeckerwood posted:juxtaposition to Nintendo and Sega raising wages, Blizzard announced that it's cutting staff bonuses by 42% If you'll recall, bonuses were the big promise for getting diablo 4 on track to come out on some timeline that seems to be required by the microsoft merger
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Feb 20, 2023 07:23
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/edit Nevermind I think I'm the wrong "game industry" thread.
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Feb 21, 2023 06:41
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Just saw this and now wonder if we'll get a more complete statement in the morning. The image talks about CoD specifically, but the general statement is for Xbox games. Huh! https://twitter.com/BradSmi/status/1627926790172811264?s=20 
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Feb 21, 2023 08:30
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Wonder if this is their quick attempt to have something to point to for regulators so they can proclaim “see?! If we were a monopoly, would we be doing this with our competitors?” with regards to the ABK buyout.
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Feb 21, 2023 09:40
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Absolutely. It seems (and this is all speculation) like Sony's being deliberately obstructionist right now when it comes to making deals with MS over Activision games because doing so would weaken any argument they can make to the regulators against the merger, so MS hitting up Nintendo circumvents that and lets them undercut Sony's 'we don't know that they'll make deals!' argument. It's also a relatively easy deal to make because of the ongoing research that says that by and large Nintendo doesn't actually compete with XBox the same way Sony does in terms of consumer purchases, people never buy a Switch instead of an XBox. So this expands the market share of the games and gives MS a whole bunch of goodwill at no real loss. (Except for future call of duty devs tearing their hair out to build the downgraded versions) MikeJF fucked around with this message at 09:49 on Feb 21, 2023 |
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Feb 21, 2023 09:43
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MikeJF posted:Absolutely. It seems (and this is all speculation) like Sony's being deliberately obstructionist right now I mean, of course they are, that's how this works.
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Feb 21, 2023 09:48
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Sony has more to gain if the deal falls through. Microsoft gets humiliated, ActiBlizz is in dire straits for money and Sony can go to the negotiating table with more leverage to get CoD deals. If the merger falls through, it would be hilarious if Sony somehow pulled full exclusivity for CoD. That Nintendo deal is definitely engineered to prove that Microsoft is happy to cooperate.
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Feb 21, 2023 09:51
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I don’t think it’s gonna get them any regulatory goodwill. It reads as transparent. aggressive, frantic rear end-covering. The only thing that’ll work is if they cut a deal with Sony and short of absurdly generous terms that’s just not gonna happen.
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Feb 21, 2023 09:57
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MikeJF posted:(Except for future call of duty devs tearing their hair out to build the downgraded versions) I feel like they'll take the quick and dirty route a lot of devs have for this: "Cloud version (on Switch)".
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Feb 21, 2023 10:01
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UK CMA posted:42. Our assessment under this theory of harm is focussing on whether Microsoft would have the ability and incentive to limit access to CoD, and whether this ‘foreclosure’ would have an effect on the ability of rivals to compete with Microsoft in gaming consoles. In terms of ‘ability’, we consider whether limiting access to CoD would harm the competitiveness of Xbox’s rivals. In terms of ‘incentive’, we consider whether Microsoft stands to gain from this strategy. And in terms of ‘effect’, we consider how this would impact overall competition in the market for gaming consoles. The above is a portion of the UK's statement which points out that Nintendo does not really compete with the other 2 and mostly focuses on the effects of CoD exclusivity on Sony.
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Feb 21, 2023 11:05
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Got to assume that the only way they would be able to achieve feature parity on Nintendo platforms (Switch and likely still the case on whatever Switch 2 is) is by making them streaming versions.
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Feb 21, 2023 17:28
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