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CelticPredator posted:Narrator: they were in fact culpable Eh, there's been decades of casting Manson as a master manipulator and at times some type of honest to god master hypnotist. Seen way too many people repeat the story about him staring at a dude and stopping his watch. It's going to leak out a bit. Thinking back I kind of like the focus on Tex in it, a lot of times he gets off light as just a follower. Nice for him to be the center stage threat.
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Apr 19, 2024 04:29
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Yeah idk I'm certainly not a Manson family expert or anything but my uninformed impression was that it was a Jonestown type situation where a lot of mentally vulnerable people got swept up into a bad situation. I guess there was that mindhunter season where Anna torv speculates that Tex was trying to usurp manson's authority within the cult by committing the murders? Not sure how true that is. I would say that nazis and slaveowners are on a different level but perhaps I'm splitting hairs here
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Apr 19, 2024 04:39
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I feel like you've misread the tone of that post if you're agreeing with it.
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Apr 19, 2024 04:43
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Aglet56 posted:Yeah idk I'm certainly not a Manson family expert or anything but my uninformed impression was that it was a Jonestown type situation where a lot of mentally vulnerable people got swept up into a bad situation. I guess there was that mindhunter season where Anna torv speculates that Tex was trying to usurp manson's authority within the cult by committing the murders? Not sure how true that is. I would say that nazis and slaveowners are on a different level but perhaps I'm splitting hairs here I mean they weren't literal nazis but their goal with the Tate murders was to frame the local Hispanic community and start a race war.
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Apr 19, 2024 05:13
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It’s not like Manson was famous for having the symbol of Nazism tattooed on his forehead or anything.
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Apr 19, 2024 06:24
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Aglet56 posted:Yeah idk I'm certainly not a Manson family expert or anything but my uninformed impression was that it was a Jonestown type situation where a lot of mentally vulnerable people got swept up into a bad situation. I guess there was that mindhunter season where Anna torv speculates that Tex was trying to usurp manson's authority within the cult by committing the murders? Not sure how true that is. I would say that nazis and slaveowners are on a different level but perhaps I'm splitting hairs here Most people at Jonestown still had to be forced to drink the Flavor Aid.
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Apr 19, 2024 06:45
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We can debate the culpability of the Manson family murderers w/r/t the Nazis or whatever, but I do distinctly remember when seeing OUaTiH in theaters that I found the whole scene to be off-putting in a way that a lot of other violence in Tarantino movies isn't. There's something about orchestrating your movie so that your rich, handsome, cool Hollywood protagonists exact incredibly brutal violence against three people that felt beyond the pale; the particular brutality meted out to the main woman and the way in which Tarantino played up her shrieking and flailing just pushed it beyond the violence in his other movies.
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Apr 19, 2024 08:37
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It's meant to be provocative obviously and have people clamouring to denounce the misogyny. But here's the thing - they deserved what they got, and I was hooting and hollering
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Apr 19, 2024 08:43
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The flamethrower got some of the biggest laughs in my theater. It's loving hilarious.
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Apr 19, 2024 09:41
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There's a rather problematic theme I saw pointed out recently in our culture that certain leaders are basically treated as if they have literal mind control powers through their speech and presence that means their followers who gleefully committed, enabled and celebrated horrific atrocities are to be treated as poor innocent little lambs who were nothing but victims of circumstance, and that's why it's okay to let them off and put them back in power and in charge of NATO, but you definitely have to ban TikTok.
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Apr 19, 2024 10:11
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I think it's okay to be portrayed as handsome and cool for killing the Manson family tbhlive with fruit posted:Three murderers. mycot fucked around with this message at 16:25 on Apr 19, 2024 |
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Apr 19, 2024 15:11
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Ghost Leviathan posted:There's a rather problematic theme I saw pointed out recently in our culture that certain leaders are basically treated as if they have literal mind control powers through their speech and presence that means their followers who gleefully committed, enabled and celebrated horrific atrocities are to be treated as poor innocent little lambs who were nothing but victims of circumstance, and that's why it's okay to let them off and put them back in power and in charge of NATO, but you definitely have to ban TikTok.
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Apr 19, 2024 15:15
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MeinPanzer posted:We can debate the culpability of the Manson family murderers w/r/t the Nazis or whatever, but I do distinctly remember when seeing OUaTiH in theaters that I found the whole scene to be off-putting in a way that a lot of other violence in Tarantino movies isn't. I mean this I can understand. In most Tarantino movies when the ultra violence occurs it's usually to someone that has been built up over the entire movie. Inglorious Basterds got around this because everyone knows Hitler and understands the evil he facilitated. And even then you had Landa throughout the movie showcasing it. In Hollywood, Tarantino probably overestimated just how familiar people were with the murders because it's something he's experienced firsthand for decades. The Tate murders really messed up Hollywood for a time, her friends and coworkers are still active in the industry. Sympathy over it why was Polanski had so much lattitude to do what he did. There was just one, really good, scene with an implied threat of violence. He could've at least mentioned the 20 some murders they had committed leading up to the Tate murders. Edit: removed the part i was wrong about. I couldn't quite remember and double checked publicity stills from the movie. Macdeo Lurjtux fucked around with this message at 15:38 on Apr 19, 2024 |
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Apr 19, 2024 15:25
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:He could've at least mentioned the 20 some murders they had committed leading up to the Tate murders, or at least not removed Tate's pregnancy in order to keep her as the waifish ingenue. What are you talking about man she's heavily pregnant in the movie
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Apr 19, 2024 15:28
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Read Chaos if you wanna more about how hosed the Manson murders are.
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Apr 19, 2024 16:00
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MeinPanzer posted:We can debate the culpability of the Manson family murderers w/r/t the Nazis or whatever, but I do distinctly remember when seeing OUaTiH in theaters that I found the whole scene to be off-putting in a way that a lot of other violence in Tarantino movies isn't. Three murderers.
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Apr 19, 2024 16:20
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Okay, so they were murderers who were attempting to murder more people and desecrate their corpses in order to start a race war because they believed, as white people, that they would easily be able to enslave black and brown people afterwards because they're inherently stupid. Okay, I get it, still they were young and white so I mean really who's to say who was in the wrong.
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Apr 19, 2024 16:25
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mycot posted:I think it's okay to be portrayed as handsome and cool for killing the Manson family tbh It's very infantile and fanboyish.
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Apr 19, 2024 17:03
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It has an element of wish fulfillment, which is fine. But besides, these criticisms of them being handsome, I mean come on, they're protagonists in a movie. Odds are they'll be good looking; that's not some sin to lay directly at the feet of OUaTiH.
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Apr 19, 2024 17:12
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Jack B Nimble posted:It has an element of wish fulfillment, which is fine. Tex is played by noted disgusting uggo Austin Butler
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Apr 19, 2024 17:18
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Jack B Nimble posted:It has an element of wish fulfillment, which is fine. People are distracted by Brad Pitt and have to make it everybody else's problem.
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Apr 19, 2024 17:24
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Shageletic posted:I think Zodiac could have been even better if a hammered Leonardo Dicaprio and a hosed up Brad Pitt accidentally flame broiled him This, but unironically.
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Apr 19, 2024 17:30
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The snap zoom on the lady in the pool when dalton gets the flamethrower out is sublime
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Apr 19, 2024 17:34
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I think it's fine to be at least a little conflicted. Also, Cliff canonically murdered his wife.
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Apr 19, 2024 18:15
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I think if the leader of your compound orders you to kill an innocent family in the hopes of starting a race war then the moral move is to not do that, hth.
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Apr 19, 2024 19:15
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My pearls flew right off when Brad Pitt's dog clamped his teeth around the goofy murderer's balls and when he smashed the other one into a wall mounted phone and it makes a ringing sound. This Tarantino fellow ought to tone things down.
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Apr 19, 2024 19:56
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Ryan Gosling stars in, and Lord and Miller are directing Project Hail Mary. It's a Sci Fi novel from the writer of The Martian. I recently read it and while the stakes are higher and it's less realistic, it's got a lot in common with The Martian. I thought it was fine but it had some of the same issues that kept it from being better like a lot of engineer internal monolog. However I really want to know what L&M plan for their version. They were not at all who I would expect for this.
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Apr 19, 2024 19:59
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It was a wild trip going to see Once Upon a Time in Hollywood with someone who had never heard of Tate and only knew vague details about Manson, the whole thing ended up being a big "what the hell was that?" for her
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Apr 19, 2024 20:40
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Aglet56 posted:Nah, that was the scene I was complaining about too. Part of the problem is the sound design: one of the Manson women gets injured right at the beginning of the scene, and she spends the next five minutes shrieking her head off, which is just physically unpleasant to listen to. The Manson killers are also not very satisfying as victims of hyper violence; unlike nazis or southern slaveowners, it's a lot easier to see them as brainwashed cult members (and thus not really culpable). The nazis and slave owners in their respective movies were also legitimate, serious threats to their protagonists, and in both cases they had scenes where the protagonists were captured and helpless before the tables got turned. Brad Pitt, in contrast, doesn't know who the Manson family is and he just kind of demolishes them without a second thought Huh, if only there was some clue in the movie regarding Cliff Booth’s proclivities towards violence. Majkol posted:Also, Cliff canonically murdered his wife. Bingo.
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Apr 19, 2024 21:56
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Yeah I didn’t get that one, given how calm Pitt’s character was throughout most of the movie
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Apr 19, 2024 21:57
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Aglet56 posted:Brad Pitt, in contrast, doesn't know who the Manson family is and he just kind of demolishes them without a second thought They came into his house with a gun and knives and the last thing they do is one of them says "shoot him" and then the other one starts to shoot him. You don't have to be a suburban gun owner filled with castle doctrine fantasies to think that what they get is broadly what they hsd coming.
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Apr 19, 2024 22:07
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Cliff is a big piece of poo poo, that's also the point of the Bruce Lee sequence, he's daydreaming about the time he totally beat up Bruce Lee so bad he demolished a car and only got fired because that bitch couldn't deal with how awesome he was. He probably saw Bruce in passing and avoided eye contact and got fired for being gross.
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Apr 19, 2024 22:08
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Baron von Eevl posted:Cliff is a big piece of poo poo, that's also the point of the Bruce Lee sequence, he's daydreaming about the time he totally beat up Bruce Lee so bad he demolished a car and only got fired because that bitch couldn't deal with how awesome he was. He probably saw Bruce in passing and avoided eye contact and got fired for being gross. Wait, you think within the reality of the movie that was a dream sequence? You're layering unreliable narrator onto the movie? Also Bruce Lee really was little and cocky, and really did get man handled by a big stunt guy and former national Judo champ, Gene Lebell (and they became friends and training partners). Jack B Nimble fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Apr 19, 2024 |
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Apr 19, 2024 22:09
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I think I need to rewatch this movie. I spent the entire time dreading that I was going to see a hosed up murder horror scene at the end instead of Tarintino cathartically killing the killers
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Apr 19, 2024 22:12
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Jack B Nimble posted:Wait, you think within the reality of the movie that was a dream sequence? You're layering unreliable narrator onto the movie? It's very clearly a dream sequence. Cliff is on the roof doing poo poo, then he slips into a reverie where a bunch of dumb implausible poo poo happens that culminates in him kicking Bruce Lee's rear end, then it cuts back to the roof and he's like "Nahhh anyway". It's pretty much only missing an "and then everyone clapped". Like, the movie is obviously a fairytale, but the characters that are real people basically just behave like how you imagine they would in real life, except for Lee who is a ridiculous caricature of the most assholeish anecdotes about him
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Apr 19, 2024 22:34
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Professor Shark posted:I think I need to rewatch this movie. I spent the entire time dreading that I was going to see a hosed up murder horror scene at the end instead of Tarintino cathartically killing the killers On one hand I like when somebody runs down all the small details that went into a crime, and sources things really well. But on the other a lot of the time it just turns into a really exploitative way for people to gawk at someone else’s tragedy. I got really annoyed when Tiger King got popular because the people who made it edited out a lot of animal abuse and racism. So a lot of people got it into their heads that Exotic is a fun folk hero, instead a giant piece of poo poo who abused countless animals and kept drug addicts as sex slaves. They had plenty of access to the truth but decided bullshit was more marketable. I get wary when people tell me they like “documentaries” because often enough it turns out to be poo poo like this. Needless to say I thought it was hilarious in Halloween ‘18 when the dumb crime podcasters got killed by Myers. Pity the sequel was awful.
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Apr 19, 2024 22:41
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I'd need to rewatch the whole movie with an eye towards the interpretation of an unreliable narrator, but I dunno. You don't pick and choose what's real in a fairy tale; yes the events are unrealistic, but they're real within the fairy tale; you don't start sorting the events into plausible and implausible. It's an interesting point though, and I really would like to watch it again with that in mind.
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Apr 19, 2024 22:59
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Jack B Nimble posted:I'd need to rewatch the whole movie with an eye towards the interpretation of an unreliable narrator, but I dunno. You say that like I was doing some post-watch deconstruction, but thats not it - it was just immediately clear to me that's what was going on as I watched it. Since then I've seen people disagree on this so clearly QT didn't make this clear enough for some people's taste
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Apr 19, 2024 23:06
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It practically has him rubbing his chin and saying "ah yes, let me remember it" while a Wayne's World-esque doodley-doo wavy camera effect washes over it.
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Apr 19, 2024 23:52
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I'm sure you're right, I'll be interested to see what I apparently overlooked.
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Apr 20, 2024 04:33
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