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Part 14: The (Other) Widow and the Wall of Text We’ll follow up Ottilia's rays of sunshine with a visit to Lady Salomea, the widow of the late baron. She’s staying in the guest house just outside the abbey walls.  But first:  (Fürstchen: Princess)   I would like to talk to you about my late husband. Thank you. Please, sit. Through Christ, our Lord, amen. Amen. Thank you for agreeing to share a meal with me, Master Maler. Of course. The honor is mine. Lorenz did not make friends easily. He was a strong-headed man, with staunch beliefs he didn’t shrink to share. When I was told he’d found some manner of friendship with an artist, well… I was curious. It comforts me to know he found fellowship here at this most unusual abbey. Not that there is much comfort to be found in these cold and dreary Alpine towns. Lorenz and I had meant to take a tour of them before returning home to Worms, but… Well. Return we shall. This sorrow is just the first of many, I’m afraid. Are you married yourself, Master Maler? That is a shame. There are joys to be found in marriage, should you care to work for them. Perhaps it’s no surprise you and Lorenz became fast friends. I imagine he saw something of himself in you. Oh… my. He even gave you one of his pins. He must have been quite fond of you. His lusts for drink and women once afflicted him with great remorse, though such shame faded with time. Lorenz was a flawed man. His various infidelities were no secret to me. But are we not all flawed before Christ? Frumenty is whole wheat grains boiled in milk or broth, kind of like oatmeal. If you watch the screenshots carefully, you’ll notice that Salomea doesn’t eat anything, and just slowly drinks one glass of wine over the course of this conversation. I loved him as a wife should properly love her husband. But I would not say that we were friends. I only hope his appetites are not what lead [sic] him to his end. I’ve been searching for the answer to that quandary myself. Were you and Lorenz so close that you would trouble yourself so?You know it, bros for life and afterlife.   If not him, then who? Your husband managed to cultivate many enemies in his short time here. That does sound like Lorenz… He was a man of many opinions, and he gave them freely, to all who would listen - and some who would not. The previous abbot, Father Matthias, seemed to appreciate that about him. This new abbot is… perhaps more conservative. Father Matthias was an open-minded man, from all I’ve heard. A true scholar. Father Gernot doesn’t share Matthias’ passion for the written word, yet endures the expense of it. To be put in such a position would make any man unhappy. I understand. I wonder what he will make of Lorenz’s gift to the abbey. He had found a book about the history of Tassing. He believed it contained some scandalous details. He said it corroborated fears Father Matthias had expressed, but he didn’t share the particulars with me. Beyond the broad basket of Tassing’s history, I cannot say. My understanding is that this community is quite old. I’m sorry I can’t be of more help. I have some education, but I lack my husband’s thirst for knowledge. If you find the book, hopefully its significance will be apparent.  Only so long as it takes the archdeacon to investigate my husband’s murder. Though the circumstances of my time here are dire, I’m in no hurry to return. You are a disarming man, Master Maler, and much too easy to talk to. To be frank, I do not know what will become of me when I return to Worms. My title and residence may be in jeopardy. Lorenz and I have a son, but he is young yet. I don’t know many of the legalities, only that my position is at some risk. It’s mansplaining time, folks! Ah, thank you, but no. I fear it will only heighten my unease. We didn’t even get to eat all of the fancy food.  Be well, Master Maler. And… whatever anyone says of my husband, I’m certain he appreciated your friendship.Salome only has one facial expression. I would guess that she was trained from an early age to keep her poker face on as a survival strategy for a noblewoman, especially since she married a man who wasn’t afraid to make a lot of enemies.   There’s a letter on the table we can interact with.  Roughly paraphrased: “Even though you’ve threatened to report me to the inquisitors in Innsbruck, I will not perform a ritual for you. For the sake of both our souls, please stop with these requests.”  My God. Lorenz was blackmailing Ferenc to get him to perform some kind of occult ritual. No wonder Ferenc was so unsettled when Lorenz arrived. The baron could have gotten him executed for witchcraft.That’s a tantalizing hint, but we don’t have any more time to follow up on the Prior Ferenc lead before the archdeacon arrives. More details from that story will have to wait for an alternate timeline. For now, Andreas has nothing to do but return to the Gertner house to rest up for tomorrow.  But someone is waiting to speak with him.  Wojslav casually takes the Lord’s name in vain. He’s the most earthly of the Kiersau brothers.   It’s the archdeacon. He’s come early, with an entire retinue in tow. He’s questioning everyone who knew the baron and Brother Piero. I’ve already told him the little I know. He expects to speak with you tomorrow at Nones. He requested you, specifically.The meeting with the archdeacon is in the afternoon, which means we still have one more investigation opportunity and one more meal time.   It’s no secret you’ve been poking about the town and the abbey, sticking your nose in the rot. I hope your prying has borne fruit, or Piero’s neck will meet the sword. If only I’d had a couple more days - ! Whatever happens, Piero knows you’ve been working hard on his behalf, and he’s grateful for it. Only… Andreas… It’s just… you know as well as I do the baron was not a good man. I’m not saying he deserved what he got, just… you think hard about what you tell the archdeacon, and who you tell him about. You understand? All I’m saying is, if in your searching you heard anything about a certain sister… I’d ask you to keep it to yourself.We’ll explore the story about a certain sister in our alternate playthrough.  That’s all I would ask of you. I should return to Kiersau. The abbot will be having a fit right about now. Be well, Andreas. I will pray for Piero’s deliverance tonight. You should as well.Wojslav departs, and there’s only one thing left to do tonight.   Andreas’s thoughts are troubled by the weight of the consequences that tomorrow will bring. He dreams.    An orderly city with straight, uncomplicated streets. The mind of a young man of privilege who has yet to experience any real hardship. We proceed toward the center.  Note that Andreas’s father uses the scribe script, not Andreas’s humanist script. Dad didn’t go to university and embrace higher learning the way that Andreas did.  Dad! I’ll be home soon.  Good. I’m finishing a commission for the Imhoffs. You can see it when you get back. And then you can show me your commissions when you open your workshop. Yes, of course. You’re not going to quit this like you quit university, are you? Good. If it weren’t for the work I did for the rector, you never would have had the opportunity. Most people never get a second chance after they throw something away like that. We’ll see you when you get back. Sure. All right.We proceed further toward the center of the dream city, and encounter one more vision just before our goal.  Oh… it’s you.(not a posting mistake, the ellipsis dialogue repeats)  I only have a picture of you, the one my brother Daniel made. I really don’t have any idea what you’re like. Our Andreas really can’t understand why anyone would want to get married, beyond his basic familiarity with upper-class social dynamics. The idea of getting married himself is baffling and intimidating, so he dreams about it regularly.  Why should that matter? Right. Everyone keeps saying thatPeople talk to Andreas about love and sex all the time. They’re popular subjects. But nothing he hears sounds like a truth that he could experience for himself. He still isn’t sure if it’s all a big inside joke that he just hasn’t gotten yet, or if he’s somehow different from everyone else.. That’s why I’m saying it to you now. Because I’m saying it to myself. Exactly. Hm. I’ll see you soon, Andreas. For real, I mean. I suppose that’s true. Until then.When we reach the center of the city, we’re transported back to Prester John’s court. Get ready for   Apologies, your majesty. My mind has been preoccupied by a tragedy at Kiersau Abbey. What manner of tragedy? The murder of a nobleman, a close friend of the Prince-Bishop of Freising. My friend, Brother Piero, is the abbot’s only suspect. I know that he could not have done it. How do you know? Examine your assumptions, my son. In addition to having no motive and violence not being part of his character, he’s not physically capable of the act. He is of limited strength and has a palsy in his hand that makes holding a paintbrush difficult. It’s inconceivable that he would have the strength and resolve to kill the baron with a blow to the head. A whole lot of inconceivable poo poo happens on this hell of an Earth, Andreas.  So what do you intend to do about it? When I’m brought before the archdeacon, I’ll tell him what I know about other people who had motives to kill the baron. I have to believe he’ll see there are much more likely suspects than Piero. Why have you taken this task upon yourself? Your love for and devotion to him speak well of your character. A man who is humble before his elders honors also his gods. Of course you’d say that, old man. He is right, though. If Andreas doesn’t help him, no one will. Exactly. I understand why the brothers and sisters cannot act against the abbot, but I must do something. Why does that poo poo-for-brains abbot care about the death of a useless fart like Lorenz Rothvogel, anyway? Oh no, the abbey! Who give [sic] a drat about those hypocritical assholes?! In any case, Andreas’ ability to prevent Piero’s death depends on the judgment of the archdeacon. Wise or foolish, corrupt or just, the archdeacon will be the first and possibly final arbiter of Piero’s guilt. Andreas must win the archdeacon to his side using the tools favored by men such as him. Pah! When’s the last time you met a man who was truly ruled by reason? Wisdom can be shared, but the audience may not comprehend it. Despite your talent, you are merely an artist. He has been invested with power by the Prince-Bishop of Freising. You have no authority with him. You must be honest in all things, Andreas, but many are not willing to accept the truth. And the cost of honesty can be… high. If reason, wisdom, authority, and honesty cannot triumph, what am I left with?   Above all, faith in Providence. Well, what do you plan to tell the archdeacon, Andreas? There were other people in Kiersau and Tassing who had motives to kill the baron. The Widow Kemperyn despised Lorenz for maiming her late husband. Maimed how? The baron beat him savagely following an argument about trespassing on the Kempers’ farm. His injuries were so severe that they never truly healed, and he needed a cane to walk. He died less than a year ago. Ottilia is certain it’s because of the wounds he received that day. Why did the two quarrel? My understanding is that it was simply an argument about trespass that got out of hand. Note the subtle ink splatter for emphasis. For what reason? Should an aged widow not live out her remaining days in peace? She should, but she won’t. She didn’t squeeze out any little Kempers for old Rannig, so away the house goes. Yes, because women must fight to own property. We exist on the sufferance of men. Andreas can be pedantic about what the law is, but he’s not closed-minded about what it should be. Good. Perhaps if more men understood our just anger, the laws would change. A good man does not sit idly by while injustice flourishes around it. What the Hell is a half-trained artist with half a university degree going to do against the might of the Holy Roman Empire? Idiots!Holy Roman Empire The largest and most powerful European state in its time, the Holy Roman Empire was made up of many peoples and suffered from much internal strife during the Reformation, despite Emperor Maximillian’s firm hand over the land. You have established a motive for the widow, Andreas, but there is another matter that requires inquiry. While women and men are equal in most natures, women are weaker in strength. How could a woman of Ottilia’s age overpower a healthy man like the baron? I wondered at that myself. Have you found anything that she could have used to kill the baron? No, not yet.If you catch someone by surprise and off balance, it doesn’t take much strength to push them hard enough to crack their head open on a stone wall. I learned later that if you walk further into Ottilia’s house, you can find Rannig’s cane on the floor. The head is broken off the cane, and it’s of a size that matches the wound we found during the autopsy. Ottilia doesn’t say anything incriminating when you ask her about it, but finding it allows Andreas to speculate on her means of committing the murder. If you wish to convince the archdeacon that an old woman killed the baron, you will need more than just a motive. Are there any others you suspect? Lucky Steinauer hated the baron for the death of his daughter, Beate. Did the baron kill her? No. He seduced her and made her certain promises about their future together. She was with child when the baron left. Lucky and Agnes said they would find her someone to marry. Beate tried to end the pregnancy using her mother’s medicine but the result was fatal. Seems an awful lot of fuss over a little affair. Nothing worth dying over hehe. That doesn’t seem to have been the intention. What led you to this conclusion, Andreas? I saw him pray at a secluded grave near the old salt mine in the woods. Carved in the gravestone were the words, “two innocents.” Surely Lucky and Agnes could have found a man to marry her. She’s hardly the first woman to have been abandoned with child. The town would have accepted her. Even if that is true, it must have been distressing to have been abandoned by her seducer. Certainly some in the town would have judged her for it. Oh, who cares?! What does it matter? If you’re a man - a nobleman - yes, it may not matter at all. It’s quite different for the woman involved. He’s married to the village midwife. He would know better than most the hardships faced by unwed mothers. His first daughter also married young and unexpectedly, did she not? Yes, Brigita married Martin quite young, though now he’s run off as well. So yet another woman has been left to raise a child alone. Andreas, do you believe Lucky would have killed the baron to avenge his daughter? The desire for revenge is easy to understand, even if it cannot be condoned. That is motive, then, but by what means could Lucky have killed the baron? I believe he slammed the baron’s head against the wall.Is he truly so strong that he could kill a man in such a way? I saw him lift massive stones by the church. Later he was killing fish by slamming their heads against a rock. Neither task seemed to tax his strength. Sounds like a living monster… my kind of man hehe! Killing Lorenz would have been easy for him. Are there any others you suspect? Prior Ferenc feared the baron would report his occult interests to inquisitors. How so? Prior Ferenc and the baron shared a fascination with the occult texts. The baron was pressuring the prior into performing a ritual for him while he was visiting Kiersau. When Ferenc refused, the baron threatened to turn him in to the Inquisition. How did you come by this knowledge? I found written evidence. A letter from Ferenc to the baron in which he discusses all of these matters. It is a dangerous thing, a monk dabbling in the occult. His very soul could be in danger. Forget the soul. He could have been defrocked, excommunicated, even killed. All for a little curiosity. Better to stay stupid and ignorant. That’s what I say hehe. We’re well aware. Whether the proclamation was made by a bishop of Paris or by the pope himself, the danger remains. Prior Ferenc feared loss of his status, his life, and even God’s grace. Men have killed for less. How might the prior have accomplished the deed? I am not certain. I haven’t found anything that I think he could have used as a weapon. It will be a challenge to convince the archdeacon that a prior committed a murder this foul. If you mean to suggest that Ferenc is a suspect, you must find a weapon to convince the archdeacon. Are there any others you suspect? I’ve found no other suspects. You have brought a worthy mystery before this court, Andreas. I pray to God we have granted you the insight you need to face the coming challenge. Thank you, your majesty. I am prepared to meet the day. Before you go, Andreas, there is one more thing to consider. You will be summoned to the archdeacon to tell him what you know. But you need not tell him… everything. There is a place for a noble lie. This is not one of them.Shut up, Grandpa, I’ll do what I want. Why? The baron is dead. All of the people with a motive to kill him suffered, either directly or indirectly, from his wickedness. Simply mentioning a name to the archdeacon may endanger them, whether they had anything to do with the murder or not. Right. No point throwing everyone waist deep into poo poo hehe. I protest any attempt at deception, but you must ultimately follow your own conscience, Andreas. Little time remains before you must stand before the archdeacon. Use it wisely. Until we meet again, Andreas. God be with you. And also with you, your majesty.   Next time: the spinning bee and lunch with Smokey before the hour of reckoning. And the thread must vote! We have all the information we’re going to get about the crime before we meet the archdeacon. We have three suspects: Lucky, Ottilia, and Prior Ferenc. In case you didn’t pick it up by now, this is not a Phoenix Wright game. We’re not obliged to appear in court as a lawyer with an airtight case that will prove the absolute guilt of the true criminal. Instead, we’re playing a unique role as a temporary resident of the community. Andreas knows quite a bit about the people around Tassing and Kiersau, but he’s not one of them. He’s also an educated man who has gathered quite a bit of attention for going out of his way to investigate the murder. And let’s be real: he’s a video game protagonist. His choices matter more than anyone else’s. As Beatrice made clear, we have the opportunity to incrimitate, or not incriminate, any or all of our three suspects, and withhold whatever details we feel like. So, dear goons: Tell me who to snitch on, and how much. If you name a single name, I’ll take that as a suggestion to do my best to pin the crime on that person and leave the others out of it. If the majority of the votes are for a single name, that is the only name that Andreas will mention to the archdeacon. On the other hand, if there are a lot of votes along the lines of “tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth,” Andreas will share everything he’s found about all three suspects, and we’ll roll the dice on which suspect the wheel of fate lands on. Feel free to discuss the potential ramifications of a guilty verdict for any of the three suspects. How will the abbey, the town, and the peasantry be affected if Lucky, Ottilia, or Ferenc is convicted of murder? And then just vote for the most chaotic option. I trust you. s__herzog fucked around with this message at 02:23 on Sep 4, 2023 |
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Sep 3, 2023 05:40
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Hoo boy. I should really go to bed, but: I'm not sure having the widow get hanged, or beheaded, or whatever they'd do, would serve anything but making the archdeacon feel better. It'd feel like a secondary injustice, basically. So, no. Lucky honestly seems like the person most likely to have actually done it, but again, I'm not sure what it means for the town if he gets killed. Prior Ferenc... second most likely candidate, and it would be easy to throw him over for being a poo poo, but I don't know what that actually means for the town and its stability. And, if he didn't actually do it, I'm not sure _he_ deserves having his head chopped off either. So, I suppose I lean towards either Lucky or Ferenc. Ugh.
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Sep 3, 2023 09:53
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I want to pick Ferenc, because frankly he deserves it, but since we didn't find a weapon or any physical evidence of how he could have done it, I don't think we can get him condemned. Lucky and Ottilia would both have been completely justified in killing the Baron, and I don't particularly want to accuse either of them because of it. Lucky's the most likely to have done it, I think, but if he did then I don't blame him. I think I'm inclining towards explain about all of them and let the archdeacon pick one.
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Sep 3, 2023 11:00
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One of the most significant facts about this murder is that Lorenz was a piece of poo poo, and that everyone who has a motive has a motive we'd feel sympathetic towards. I'd say open the bag and tell the whole truth, mostly because I'm curious what this set of evidence (plus whatever you get from your one segment tomorrow) will result in.
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Sep 3, 2023 14:13
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Black Robe posted:I want to pick Ferenc, because frankly he deserves it, but since we didn't find a weapon or any physical evidence of how he could have done it, I don't think we can get him condemned. Explain how much of it, though? A Terry Pratchett line sums up the contemporary approach to justice pretty well: Lord Vetinari believed if there was a crime, there should be punishment, and if you end up punishing the person who committed the crime that's a happy bonus. The purpose of this court will be to decide who takes the blame for murdering the baron, and that is very much not the same thing as looking for who actually did it. There are details and people that, if mentioned, will have the archdeacon decide immediately 'welp, that's my job done, clearly they did it, crazed peasant with a grudge, death by public torture, thanks for the help kid, if I never see this shithole again it'll be too soon,' and these have less to do with convincing murder evidence and more to do with who the people who look kind of guilty are.
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Sep 3, 2023 14:33
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Hooray! Glad to see this back!
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Sep 4, 2023 09:27
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I mean, we could explain everything and just... leave the Widow out of it. I'd be OK with that.
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Sep 4, 2023 09:33
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Glad to see this back too! It's been a while since I played but I don't remember this second dream sequence at all, nor one of the monks stopping you? I wonder if I ended up accidentally skipping them by doing the one investigation option that takes you through to the next day on this particular night. Also, I think there were a couple small game updates since the LP last updated? I never checked to see if there was anything important in them though. e: For the voting: since Andreas is a logician/law person in this playthrough, it's in character that he'd try to "give all the facts" in a misguided attempt to be rational, but I also think he's not so far gone as to accuse the widow. In fact he'd probably try to help her out if possible, especially after lunch with Lady Salomea and seeing the parallels. Red Mike fucked around with this message at 09:54 on Sep 4, 2023 |
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Sep 4, 2023 09:52
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Explain everything but don't mention the widow.
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Sep 4, 2023 10:23
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Mainwaring posted:Explain everything but don't mention the widow. I'll go with this, I think as much as we don't really want to implicate Lucky, we also probably care more about getting our BFF off the hook.
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Sep 4, 2023 10:56
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I at least vote to remove any suspicions from the widow.
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Sep 4, 2023 11:15
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Something I've been wondering since playing the game: what are the nicknames "Lucky" and "Smokey" supposed to be diegetically? Neither of them really works if literally translated into German.
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Sep 4, 2023 12:12
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Also, I should say that Pentiment was one of my gaming highlights of the last few years and this LP and the discussion makes me very happy.
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Sep 4, 2023 21:27
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Welcome back! Good update. Maaaaan, this is such an agonizing choice. In a way, telling the truth almost feels like the coward's way out — we know it's almost certainly going to end up with Lucky getting executed since we have the strongest evidence against him, but that's only because he's the one we had the most time to investigate. Saying that we're just telling the truth is just sugarcoating the fact that we're going to murder a man who, if not innocent, was almost certainly justified in the actions he was accused of. We just get to feel better about it because we're not the ones making the final decision — even though that decision is heavily predicated on the evidence we're presenting. So, let's be clear about what we're doing: We made a choice to try and save Piero, and now we must Condemn Lucky.
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Sep 5, 2023 07:32
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Condemn Lucky, I guess, but definitely mention the weird notes if at all possible. The elaborate font and unique color make it extremely clear there's a third party in play (also in looking back at the notes, there's a huge thematic thing going, too- these are visibly written on a page where there was previous text that was scraped off).
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Sep 5, 2023 08:42
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Moonlit Knight posted:Also, I should say that Pentiment was one of my gaming highlights of the last few years and this LP and the discussion makes me very happy. Saaaaaame. I don't feel I can contribute too much to the discussion, I've pretty much played this game every which way I can and I'm too afraid to spoil something even inadvertently. But I really did the reaction it's getting here (and that the thread is continuing!) So I will leave the thread to decide between the lovely guy who hates us that we want to finger (but there is no evidence to do so), the possibly violent dude who could have done it but honestly had a sympathetic reason for it (and again no hard evidence), and the lonely old woman who even wants to die but still... lonely widow. A murder trial based purely on vibes! Isn't it great!?
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Sep 5, 2023 20:01
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resurgam40 posted:A murder trial based purely on vibes! Isn't it great!? Isn't that all murder trials, when it comes down to it?
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Sep 5, 2023 20:09
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Definitely don't convict the widow. If someone has to take the fall for this, and it's at all possible considering what evidence we have/don't have, then it might as well be Ferenc. The town will obviously be worse off without Lucky, but the abbey better off without Ferenc.
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Sep 6, 2023 04:34
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Tell everything or finger the widow, not because it's the good choice but because I wanna see content I haven't done in my playthroughs. 
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Sep 6, 2023 07:22
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The widow. It’s not right but you might be sparing her in the long run considering medieval law about widowers.
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Sep 6, 2023 15:46
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Weird BIAS posted:The widow. It’s not right but you might be sparing her in the long run considering medieval law about widowers. it's a piece of very good writing. she almost definitely didn't do it. she has been relentlessly hosed over by everything about her society. the remainder of her life will be spent as a charity case in agonizing pain no matter what. and if you are looking for someone whose punishment will keep everyone happy, it's her. so, Andreas and you the player: what does justice mean, when the truth is unavailable? vengeance against an rear end in a top hat? keeping everything kind of as it is? pointing in the direction of a guy you think might have done it and saying 'he's got bad vibes?' we don't even have enough information to gesture at whatever the monk was talking about with a sister. you have been handed a sword in a dark room you know has a bunch of people in it and been told to swing it. have fun.
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Sep 6, 2023 18:33
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:you have been handed a sword in a dark room you know has a bunch of people in it and been told to swing it. have fun. And we have no idea who else is armed either. For all we know, someone may have a grudge against us and may be trying to convince the archbishop that we did it. I have a sinking feeling that the near-heresy at the dinner table and sassing the friar in the library may have made us some enemies better placed to influence one of their own.
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Sep 6, 2023 20:31
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Part 15: Outsiders The archdeacon will arrive this afternoon. Andreas has as much information as he’s going to get about Lucky and Ottilia, and he doesn’t have enough time to investigate other potential suspects much further. As a man of the people (and because it’s next down the list of what the thread voted for, Andreas is going to spend his morning visiting with the peasant women at the spinning bee. He heads straight to Heddy and Johan Bauer’s house to join in.    So I hope you’ve got a few hours to hunker down and get comfortable. Heddy’ll be glad to hear it. She’s got a fondness for you, Heaven knows why. Now, I can’t let you inside among the unmarried girls, being unmarried yourself… But you’re welcome to watch through one of the windows. Johan, you don’t even know. Good. Nothing matters more for a young woman than her reputation, and Eva and Veronica won’t be getting a poor one on my watch.I’ll go into the sexual politics of the spinning be at the end of the post. For now, right on into the gossip!    Be quiet and avoid disrupting the flow!  Lord no, Innsbruck’s got to be small time to the little poo poo now. You think he has something more exciting in mind? It’s a big world. Perhaps he intends to explore it. Or escape… Unique and adorable Clara face.  Martin picked an awfully convenient time to run off. Oh, Lord… Andreas was friends with the nobleman. Do you think Martin could have… you know? It’s not out place to say… Martin has a nasty little habit. He’s gotten better. Once a thief, always a thief, I say. Crime bros don’t snitch. This is a matter best left to the proper authorities. Certainly not a spinning bee. Imagine being tried by a gaggle of peasant women! That’s unkind, Johan. It’s the truth, isn’t it? Doesn’t matter if it hurts your feelings. Casual misogyny will not go unchallenged! Remind me, Andreas, whose home are we in?I’m not in anyone’s home, you made me stay outside. Oh, lay off him, Johan, Jesus. Andreas, if you’re just going to stand around, how about I put you to work? If you’re going to gossip with the girls, you might as well spin with them, too.Minigame time!  Draft wool from the distaff and twit it tight, then spin the tight yarn onto the spindle. Once there’s enough yarn on the spindle, collect it at the bottom and begin again. Draft, twist, spin, collect, repeat. You’ll figure it out!Heddy was kind enough to provide Andreas with a spindle that already had a leader ready to go. The tricky part is done. Just set the spindle spinning in the air and gradually pinch the fiber between your two hands until it has as much twist as you want and the spindle is as low as you can reach. Catch it and wind the yarn around it. Repeat until you run out of fiber.   The young one. Heh. Who can blame him? God dammit, Johan! Heh heh heh. He knows she’s trouble. I told him to stay away. She’s very pretty, isn’t she? In a mean way? Pretty, perhaps, but a nun all the same. He knows better. When has that ever stopped Big Jorg from doing anything?  My Veronica’s not half-bad. Let’s not give Andreas any ideas, eh?(quick cut to another round of the spinning minigame) Brigita has been spending a lot of time at her mother’s house lately. Agnes is glad to have her home, and Lucky’s always treated her like a daughter, but I can tell they’re concerned. Are Brigita and Martin having trouble, Veronica? That’s one word for it.Brigita does what she can, but nothing pleases Martin. He won’t lift a finger for her or Wolff. Well, that’s not his business, is it? Women’s work, and all that. You ever seen him doing much men’s work, dad? Can’t say I’ve ever seen him do much work at all. Perhaps Lucky can talk some sense into Martin. He’s always been a devoted husband and father. Lucky Steinauer is the model of what a man should be.  Oh, it’s you. Afternoon, Otto. Come to see anyone special? Hello, Otto. It’s good to see you. I heard laughing from the road and knew you all had to be up to no good in here. And look, there’s Andreas. Have you been minding your manners? Old Johan here’s a real stickler for propriety. Hmph. Likely story. Don’t be so quick to judge, Johan. Andreas carries himself like a man who’s caused his shared [sic] of mischief. What can I say, I like to have a good time. Too much time carousing, not enough working. You’ve got the arms of a maiden!He’s not wrong. We all know you work hard in the fields, Johan, no need to boast. He works hard in other places, too. You’ve been in town a few months, Andreas. Got any burning questions you’ve been meaning to ask?  Things have been hard all over town, especially for the farmers. We haven’t the money or labor to spare to do extensive work on our own, so we used to rely on Otto here… But the abbot’s got me fixing all his poo poo instead. One of the brothers mentioned the abbot had you replace the scriptorium’s roof? At the expense of the rest of the town, he did. You remember those leaks in our ceiling after the storm. We meant to have Otto fix them, but… And the abbot’s got Lucky repairing his walls and fences instead of ours! It seemed unlikely to me you’d have let it decay to such a degree unless you had to. That wall’s been on the edge of collapsing for seasons now, but Lucky’s been too busy with abbey work. So we had to have Martin do it. And look how that turned out. It’s a shameful business. But then, those abbey types wouldn’t know real shame unless it bit ‘em in the rear end. Even then, they probably wouldn’t feel it under all that padding. C’mon, Andreas, surely you’ve got better questions than that. Oh, Sister Amalie! You know her, Veronica? We’re not dear friends or anything, but sometimes she has these fits, you know? And if Father Thomas isn’t there and I have time, I’ll wait with her until he arrives. Since when! [sic] I didn’t know anything about this. Ah, and here I thought you just adored the church building. You’re so funny, Veronica.Don’t make it sound weird! She’s nice, and someone should be there when she’s in pain. That’s all. Father Thomas told me she receives visions from God. She has been blessed by the Lord. I prefer my blessings to come in the form of gulden. She’s been in Tassing for near on a decade, hasn’t she? Since I was a girl, certainly. We’ve grown up with her, in a way. The woman in the maze… It’s like something from a tale of knights and monsters. She’s trapped in a box. I don’t think there’s anything romantic about that. Aren’t you a little know-it-all. I didn’t realize you were an expert! I don’t know about you girls, but I’m sick of this wool. I’m sure we’ve all got other chores to get to? I’m glad to have that over with. Now I don’t have to think about wool for a whole year!I’m assuming that we’ve caught the tail end of a solid week or two of spinning and other miscellaneous crafts for all of the women to get through the year’s supply of fresh wool, rather than Clara being this ready to check out after a single morning of work. Oh… I was having such a nice time. I certainly learned a lot. care for an escort home, Eva? I’d like that, yes. Heh heh heh. I expect everyone will be on their best behavior going home…? They always are. Andreas, will I see you home for supper? We’ll meet the archdeacon before supper and it’s not a spoiler to say that the game will have a lot more important things to do after that meeting than show off another peasant meal.  Thanks for coming by, Andreas. Come back any time. Unless you come on abbey business. Don’t threaten him with a good time, Johan. So, regarding the spinning bee: The term “spinning bee” is an invention of 18th-century colonial Americans to demonstrate the defiance of the colonies against England by producing more of their own textiles rather than buying them from the home country. It has been associated with the common practice from late Medieval and early modern Germany that we see here, of women gathering together for handicrafts to save on firewood and candles (because they only have to heat and light one house in order for several families to get their work done). The in-game presentation doesn’t make it look like there are any opportunities for debauchery, with a handful of women just sitting in chairs and Johan standing watch in ample light. In fact, group spinning sessions were common settings for young adults of this time and place to get a little frisky, either on the way home afterwards (as we hear the hints with Otto and Eva) or in the room itself. There were a number of common rituals that invited sexual contact between young men and women, and separate rooms for different stages of the work with flax fibers that could afford enough privacy for a couple to sneak off if not adequately supervised.  We’re off to the charcoal burner’s hut for lunch.  Smokey has a new guest. Let’s see what his deal is.  Huh, haven’t seen you around before. Who are you? The executioner. Got a problem? Name’s Richart, if you care to know. Is it? I’ll likely kill one of your townsfolk. Estler wouldn’t bring me if it weren’t already decided. They just have to decide whose head I’m hacking.This guy doesn’t dance around the truth.  It’s the truth. The archdeacon has to pay my way. He’ll want his gulden’s worth. Folk will cheer for death as readily as anything else, if they think the bastard deserved it. Why should it? Besides, a few pints and I forget their faces anyway. God, I could use a drink. I’ll leave you to it, then.That was pleasantly enlightening. Let’s talk to Smokey about lunch.  Would you mind if I joined you for a meal?   Most decent folk don’t like to associate with my kind. They like the charcoal but they hate the burner. Well, then… I suppose you’re welcome.  I… suppose. And uh… Richart? Why not? I’m just visiting anyway. Man has a right to eat where he wants. All right. Good. Good! Through Christ, our Lord, amen. Amen. Cheese, jerky, and almonds sound like a pretty decent lunch to me. Who needs bread? If anyone starts any trouble, we’ve got an official killer to protect us. Heh, true enough, but the sword’s no good in a fight, and I’m not much good in a brawl. Not many would share their table with an executioner. Thank you for it, Köhler. Just wish you had more beer… Of course. We’re glad to have you. How else will Vácslav get his town gossip? Stop. I don’t- All right, all right. I was only kidding. I didn’t take you for much of a gossip. No offense. I’m not, and none taken. Don’t sulk about it, then. In truth, I’m the gossip, Master Maler. I can’t carouse with proper people, but I like to know what’s going on. If you tell me some of your gossip, I’ll tell you some of mine. I’ve heard that Big Jorg, the Gertner’s boy, is up to mischief with one of the sisters at the abbey. That doesn’t surprise me. The good brothers and sisters may have the townsfolk fooled, but not old Smokey. They get up to all sorts of things in these woods. Smokey. Probably shouldn’t go telling other folks’ tales, Köhler. Oh, please. No one around here cares if I live or die. They sure don’t care about what I say to people. Pft. Until they do. Fine, say what you want. You know that monk and nun who do the shopping in town? Well, they do more than shop together. They meet in the woods, sometimes. Where no one can see. No one except old Smokey. And do the things adults do, you understand? Christ, Köhler. Do you think he’s an eight year-old? What? It’s true! They certainly seemed happy. Very happy if you get my meaning.drat, dude, tone it down a bit. Yes, I understand. Thank you. Yes. Well… You heard anything else lately? Nothing else comes to mind. Good. Gossip makes trouble and it can get people hurt. Or run off, or killed. And a lot of times they didn’t even deserve it. You two are like a couple of old women. No fun at all. No one’s getting hurt. We’re just telling stories. Vácslav knows something about the prior. Don’t you, Vácslav? Why are you dragging me into this? Look, either you tell the story or I’ll tell my version of it. Stupid. Fine. A few weeks back, I saw that man, the Hungarian, in the woods. He was doing some kind of ritual with blood. His. He cut his hand in the middle of the ritual and dipped the blood into a cup. I think. He kept repeating some phrase over and over. Secks lewks tenevri or something. Scared you, didn’t it, Vácslav? Well… I don’t mind if people have strange beliefs. Let people do what they want. I just don’t like blood. That’d be a difficult uh… obstacle in my line of work. What’s inside the body should stay inside. If you say so. Never seen Father Thomas in the forest cutting his hand before Mass, ha ha. You heard anything else lately? No, nothing. No matter. There’s plenty more to tell.I love how Smokey asks for a quid pro quo gossip exchange, and then when Andreas comes up short, Smokey just barrels right on into his next story. Well, the whole town’s built on Roman ruins, right? Pieces of an old town sit underneath the abbey, too. Hundreds of years ago, the Romans built all sorts of things up here. Then one day they just vanished.Stay tuned for the history post on Roman divestment from the empire’s European frontiers when it becomes more relevant about 20 posts (18 real-life months) in the future. We built on their old bones. You still have to be careful where you step in this forest. You’re liable to fall into an old ruin… Or get scared halfway to the grave by a ghost! Pft. A priest told me there’s no such thing as ghosts, Köhler. They’re real. Smokey saw one. Oh, then you’ll love this. Right, and I see ghosts when I drink too much. But fine, let’s hear it, Köhler. It was late in the evening. The moon was high, painting the leaves all soft and silver. I heard a rustling in the meadow, like wind through the grass. Like whispers. I looked up…  I can’t stop picturing Andreas and Vácslav as 9-year-olds at summer camp with the way they’re whispering excitedly about this ghost story. And there he was. Standing in the meadow like he’s carved out of moonlight, bent near in half. He looks at me and it’s like I’ve been speared straight through to my soul, just these two eyes like dark pools, boring right into me. And his edges, the borders of him… they shimmer. So hard it hurts to look straight at him. I can’t help it- I blink. Like God himself closed my eyes. This chill wind blows through me, the very breath of winter!  Haha, Smokey scared the poo poo out of the executioner, who just said that he didn’t believe in ghosts. I love that story. Didn’t you hear the part about the dark eyes? The wind? Eh, it’s fine, Vácslav. Some people don’t have a speck of wonder in their whole body. Anyway, these ruins are haunted. Hey, Smokey, I have to get back to sharpening knives for the Albans. All right, all right. Enough talking.  Until next time.  Next time: Judgment. Based on the sentiment of the thread, Andreas is going to tell the archdeacon everything he knows about Lucky and Prior Ferenc, and not mention Ottilia Kemperyn as a suspect in the murder. I haven’t played through the next segment yet, so I will give the thread three more days to deliberate in case there’s a silent faction that wants to speak up and swing the vote in another direction.
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Sep 19, 2023 06:10
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The thing about charcoal burners being persona non grata took me aback. Knowing prejudices against Roma, and also against executioners meant that the others being forced to eat away from the rest of the village made sense, but I've never heard anything specifically about people of Smokey's profession back in the day. Since everything else in this game is well-linked to actual referenced history, I assume it must be from a genuine source, but I'm not sure how to go about verifying it.
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Sep 19, 2023 09:45
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our buddy the executioner is a fun little glimpse of the future. back now he is a strange and terrifying figure, the inconveniently human appendage in charge of executing the justice of the powerful. in far, far too few years men and women will DREAM of the days when such figures were so few, far between, and not to put too fine a point on it, reserved. you get him and his pals together for a carouse after a long day's work and things get Fun.
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Sep 19, 2023 16:45
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The charcoal-burner has tales to tell. He lives in the Forest, Alone in the Forest; He sits in the Forest, Alone in the Forest. And the sun comes slanting between the trees, And rabbits come up, and they give him good-morning, And rabbits come up and say, "Beautiful morning".... And the moon swings clear of the tall black trees, And owls fly over and wish him good-night, Quietly over to wish him good-night.... And he sits and thinks of the things they know, He and the Forest, alone together— The springs that come and the summers that go, Autumn dew on bracken and heather, The drip of the Forest beneath the snow.... All the things they have seen, All the things they have heard: An April sky swept clean and the song of a bird.... Oh, the charcoal-burner has tales to tell! And he lives in the Forest and knows us well. - A. A. Milne, "The Charcoal-Burner", from Now We Are Six
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Sep 19, 2023 21:15
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I wasn't able to find any high quality historical sources for the social status of charcoal burners, only a bunch of hearsay on the Internet. For what it's worth though, the hearsay is consistent, and I have to assume that the game writers got their information somewhere more scholarly. According to what I can find, it's mostly a matter of "that guy lives alone in a hut in the woods, while the rest of us live in town or in normal farmhouses, and he doesn't even come to town for festivals (because he has to attend his coal pile 24/7 while it's burning), so he must be up to no good."
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Sep 19, 2023 22:28
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European peasantry being a cowardly, superstitious lot? Say it ain't so!
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Sep 20, 2023 07:38
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I'll vote only mention Prior Fennec. I suspect mentioning both will either get them both killed, or have them choose the commoner over the Prior. The risk, of course, is that they won't believe anything about the Prior no matter what and trying this will just get Pietro killed. Shame we can't blame everything on the ghost.
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Sep 20, 2023 14:47
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I had no idea you could catch the executioner there and even have him join in for lunch.
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Sep 20, 2023 15:36
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The info about charcoal burners came from Joel F. Harrington’s book The Faithful Executioner, where burners were described as being in a lower rung of social acceptability. Executioners could marry into a charcoal burner family, for example.
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Sep 20, 2023 17:24
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s__herzog posted:I wasn't able to find any high quality historical sources for the social status of charcoal burners, only a bunch of hearsay on the Internet. For what it's worth though, the hearsay is consistent, and I have to assume that the game writers got their information somewhere more scholarly. I know from devouring fairy tale books as a kid, there were several mentions of charcoal burners that served as a dangerous loner or social untouchable caste archetype. Wish the ATU was searchable by characters as well as plots and themes. EDIT: or the game creator could name the source used, that works too.
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Sep 20, 2023 18:28
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rope kid posted:The info about charcoal burners came from Joel F. Harrington’s book The Faithful Executioner, where burners were described as being in a lower rung of social acceptability. Executioners could marry into a charcoal burner family, for example. Neat! I keep forgetting you're part of the forums.
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Sep 21, 2023 07:02
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Never heard of this book before, but Wikipedia contains a wild detail from it:quote:Franz Schmidt's father, Heinrich, was originally a woodsman in the north-eastern Bavarian town Hof. Once, when the notoriously tyrannical margrave of Brandenburg-Kulmbach, Albrecht II (r. 1527–1553), wanted three men hanged, he picked out Heinrich from the crowd and forced him to perform the execution, after which he had no option but to continue in the profession of executioner.
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Sep 21, 2023 07:24
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Wow, this stuff is all new to me! The revelation that the Hungarian monk was doing rituals with his own blood has made me realize that my Andreas, uh, may have brought some true but misleading testimony to the court.
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Sep 22, 2023 08:52
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New indeed! I had no idea that you could talk to the executioner, even if it stands to reason that this would be the place he would eat. And ooohhh... this convo provides context I wish I had, first time around. But that's the thing with games like this, isn't it- there is no slam dunk evidence you can get , gust a lot of pieces and fragments that feel like damning evidence in the moment, but may or may not actually help you or the person you want to help. This game is so good at being a mystery game I legit want to cry about it. (and also to mention that it's 33 percent of on steam right now, from 19.99, such a deal, go get it)
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Sep 22, 2023 12:15
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I highly recommend The Faithful Executioner. It's a relatively quick read and (IMO) a fascinating glimpse into concepts of law and punishment in the Early Modern HRE.
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Sep 25, 2023 21:16
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I'm seeing separate amazon product results for the diary itself; should I be reading just TFE or both?
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Sep 26, 2023 04:06
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If it's not too late, my vote (since Ottillia is clearly making it out) is condemn Lucky which as much as you can, solely because I did Ferenc in my run. But also we can see based on that last conversation that while Ferenc might be a blood mage, he's not murdering people for it.
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Sep 26, 2023 08:40
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bewilderment posted:But also we can see based on that last conversation that while Ferenc might be a blood mage, he's not murdering people for it. Besides, there's nowt special about being a blood mage in the setting of the game. People are turning wine into blood almost every day and no-one's batting an eyelid!
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Sep 26, 2023 09:26
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