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Stick it to the Abbot at dinner; the baron hand-picked you to do the work, so he's stuck with you!
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Mar 10, 2023 14:44
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Discendo Vox posted:I'd rather not get contact embarrassment from an LP, so I'd prefer to not be a dick or a useless pedant. I don't know why I chose not to use this in the first place. I'm going back to edit it into the last post. Red Mike posted:Not putting this on you s__herzog, but I wonder if this is the type of LP that would benefit from having an abbreviated 'alternate timeline' view of the complete opposite choices once you're further along. I think some of the differences end up being quite stark. Already in the works! I have a parallel playthrough going with completely different background selections that will also diverge on most or all of the story choices, and I'll post some highlights of that once I have enough content. I'm also compiling some screens of Andreas being a random jerk. Supper behavior It's clear which way the wind is blowing.
Unless the thread descends into a riotous debate about table manners, I'm pretty sure the outcome of the next scene is decided, with Andreas hitching his wagon to the morally-questionable star of Baron Rothvogel.
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Mar 10, 2023 16:08
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What if we get into a debate about riotous table manners? 
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Mar 10, 2023 21:19
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Part 6: Baron's Best Friend The thread has spoken. Andreas is 100% in the baron’s corner and the abbot can get bent.    Thank you, my lord.   Oh, the gospel of Matthew. Wonderful. Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in Heaven.” “And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.” Have you read Matthew much, Andreas? Gernot is immediately irritated by Andreas daring to open his mouth.  “I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in Heaven, and whatever you loose on the earth will be loosed in Heaven.” Then He ordered His disciples not to tell anyone that He was the Messiah. “Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in Heaven.” That reminds me, Father Gernot, have you read anything by Martin Luther? LET’S GO He has some incredible ideas about the church. Brilliant, I think.Everyone in the room stops eating and looks at the baron, and everyone except Andreas is either alarmed or offended (Brother Lukas doesn’t seem to have any facial expressions, but I’m sure he feels the same way). The Abbot tries desperately to recover.   The quail? My God, father abbot, the quail’s fine, but don’t you think Luther’s ideas are worth discussing? He’s talking about the future of the church, shaking things up in a way I don’t think we’ve seen before. Father Thomas, you see value in his ideas, do you not? Brother… Mathieu, yes? How appropriate. What are your thoughts on Luther’s attacks on the church’s sale of indulgences?  Baron, please do not involve the other brothers in this conversation. Fine, fine. What about Andreas? Certainly a man who attended the same university as Martin Luther can spare some thoughts on his work.  Uh… he’s really put me in a difficult position. That doesn’t seem like the most prudent attitude at the moment…The game goes out of its way to tell you that you’re about to really piss everyone off. This is a pretty severe breach of the social norms within a monastery, and he’s not a person of especially high status. He’s really not supposed to be here, and if he were playing his role according to the abbot’s expectations, he would be as invisible as possible. The appropriate thing to do here would be to remain silent for the whole meal (even verbally responding to the earlier question was improper in the abbot’s eyes). But our Andreas is fairly selfish, a little bit nihilistic, and pretty chafed at the way that working for the abbot restricts his personal freedom. He’s been around the block enough times to know what kind of faux pas he’s about to make, but he also knows that friendship with the baron has a lot more value for his future than anyone else in this room ever could. Riling up the local religious authorities (without any risk of legal consequences) is a nice little bonus.   Andreas! You should know better. Lord Rothvogel, you are our guest and held in high esteem, but you have worn out my patience. You will not be discussing Luther’s work with Andreas, Thomas, Mathieu, or with any other brother. Is that clear? I suppose, father. It is your abbey, but you’re taking too much offense at this and you’re far too afraid of change. Whether it’s from Luther or someone else, reform is coming to the church. You had better accept it.  This talk is beyond insulting! It’s blasphemous! Outrageous! How dare you?! I… see. I have overstepped my bounds. And I suppose I have ruined everyone’s supper. My apologies. In spite of this unpleasantness I will make good on my manuscript payment and the donation of my copy of Historia Tassiae. If you cannot accept what the future will bring, perhaps it’s time for you to come to terms with your past. Well, no need to overstay my welcome. Fathers, brothers, Andreas… good night.  You can’t tell me what to do, dad.  Now then, I must ask you to leave so I can speak to the brothers in chapter privately. Brother Piero, please accompany Andreas out. I will take my leave as well. Good night.We’re ushered out the door.   I hope father abbot can see that the baron’s heart is in the right place, even if he picked the wrong time to express himself. It may be so, but we must never lose hope. In any case, I do hope the baron respects the abbot’s wishes for the rest of his stay, for everyone’s sake. Brother Piero, what do you think of Martin Luther’s ideas? Ha! That is for younger and wiser men than me to decide. I am just a monk, thank God. Good night, my son.  We’re dumped out into the darkness outside. Time to walk back to Tassing and turn in for the night.  Lorenz must still be awake. I wonder how he’s doing.At this point, Andreas has been so firmly on Lorenz’s side, I won’t judge you if you start shipping them. And what was he thinking? He’s a baron, but he couldn’t have expected that to go well. The storm doesn’t seem to be letting up any time soon. I should get back to the Gertners’. Something in this image doesn’t belong…    A helpful local hears Andreas shrieking in terror and strolls over to check in.    The ghost?  Well, I’m not here to tell you what you saw.I can’t confirm this yet, but this may be the only time we see Til’s frowning face. Rational Andreas continues to win friends with his facts and logic. Wouldn’t be the first time people have seen ghosts around these parts. Mm hm. Usually around the ruins. Who knows how many restless Romans lie beneath those stones? Well, I think I found Johan’s last lost sheep. I’m going to head home. Take care, Master Maler. Ok, let’s hurry up and get to bed and put all this behind us.   Jesus, what now?  Pale horse! Pale horse! Still on the floor!  Father Thomas comes running out from the front door of the church.   Do you hear me?  Yes, father. I hear you. Am I here? Is this now? Yes, you are with us. And this is now. I… apologize, Andreas. I imagine that must have been quite alarming. Is she all right? She is, yes. Sister Amalie is a mystic, gifted with visions when God sees fit to give her one. Some are more frightening than others. She lives there, yes. I’m a little surprised you haven’t noticed her before. If you came to Mass more often, you would see that I give her communion through a window to her cell. Her cell? She is an anchoress, a religious hermit so devoted to God that she has enclosed herself in a cell next to the church. She is dead to the world, but continues a life of prayer and religious contemplation. And sometimes, ever so rarely, she receives great and terrible visions. Is she local to Tassing or was she a nun at Kiersau? Neither. She came here from a Benedictine abbey in Lower Bavaria after it burned down. I am her confessor and caretaker. Many anchoresses are not literate. I write down her visions to help interpret them. This and a couple of other references indicate that Brother Volkbert has a cognitive disability. We will barely interact with him in this playthrough, but he has one optional scene that gives a better sense of his character, which I will show off in my alternate run.   In the most drastic example yet, Sister Amalie is downgraded from monastic script to peasant script in Andreas’s perception. Of course, sister.Sister Amalie walks away from the window to go back to sleep. She seems… unhappy. She is not unhappy, but she is in pain, both physical and spiritual. her spiritual pain comes from her revelations. They come and go. I try to address them as best I can. The physical pain comes from a deformity in her spine and aching in her joints. I know of no cure for that, save prayer to the Almighty. Sister Amalie was saying she had a vision of death. Could someone be in danger? Oh, no, don’t rush to judgment. Her visions are divine and powerful, but they could have many meanings. Some of her revelations take years to comprehend. Some may never be understood at all, as God wills it. Still, the argument at dinner was quite troubling. Perhaps it has cast a shadow over our thoughts. Now, the good sister appears to have fallen back to sleep. I must prepare for bed myself. Good night, Andreas.Well, at least aiding in the abbot’s public humiliation hasn’t made Father Thomas personally dislike us, so that’s good. Good night, father.I wonder how many more random encounters we’ll have before we can travel a few screens over and get to bed.   So far, so good…   Made it!  Now we get to see how five adults and one small child share a single room. Ill Peter, the oldest person in town, manages to sleep upright in a wooden chair.  Poor Jorg doesn’t have enough blankets to cover his feet. Anyway, upstairs to bed.     A little shorter than previous posts, but obviously a natural stopping point. Next time: just a few more diversions before the plot takes off. s__herzog fucked around with this message at 17:15 on Mar 13, 2023 |
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Mar 12, 2023 07:23
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whew that was tense. As it should be, given the time, but man… I’m glad I’m not Andreas. Even the pious and proper sort would have been under tons of pressure there, I bet. EDIT/NOTE: Not a complaint! It’s really good historical writing, and we totally asked for it. BassMug fucked around with this message at 07:23 on Mar 13, 2023 |
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Mar 12, 2023 07:39
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A screenshot of "She's in pain" is misplaced to be in the after-dinner section instead of the terrible vision section.
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Mar 12, 2023 09:56
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How prevalent were anchoresses in this time period? I imagine that, owing to a lack of knowledge on neurological ailments, there would be several people who secluded themselves based on their 'visions'.
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Mar 12, 2023 10:36
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I'm trying to think what a modern analogue for the dinner scene would be and I can't say I can think of anything that really works. Also, maybe it's my own lack of knowledge (or rather mostly knowing things about the modern orthodox religion which isn't the same) but when I first played through the first act I didn't really understand that there's a very real distinction between priests like Father Thomas, and monks/the abbot. I assumed the entire time that the priest would basically just be in the same hierarchy (just "stationed" in a town/church and not made to swear vows), so I was confused at things like Thomas being reluctant to join the abbot's supper.
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Mar 12, 2023 12:19
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Well, you have to remember that in this time, the abbot of an abbey like Kiersau is the equivalent of the local lord- he collects the taxes, he administers duties, and most important, he gets to decide who comes into his abbey. I imagine the Father is just the local priest, there to administer to the confessions of the town and the issues therein; the abbey is supposed to be of a higher calling than this. The Baron is an actual noble with powerful friends, so it’s to be expected he would be invited to supper, but it’s not expected he would invite the local priest and another guest… and it isn’t just his sense of entitlement, to be fair- it’s been stated, directly and through implication, that the previous abbot was a lot more open to both new ideas and his community, and was much, much less of an rear end in a top hat, too. But, yeah! Through the thread’s infinite wisdom, we have stood by our morally questionable new buddy and pissed off our employer, someone who could not only make trouble for everyone we know in the village, but who just could send a sternly worded letter to the proper authorities to get Andreas accused of heresy! This sounds like a judgement post, because at this point in my first playthrough I did the very same thing; there’s nothing that could have made it less awkward and horrible in this time period, and there’s a point where you’re just like, gently caress it, this can’t get any worse, go whole hog. But it does bear repeating, and students of this time period will be able to articulate why: this stuff? This stuff gets people killed.
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Mar 12, 2023 13:29
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...it's not a thing that came up in this update, (but it has done in earlier updates) but something that this game does re. persuasion checks that I feel is not as good as, e.g. Disco Elysium, is that you don't see when you will be making a check, and you don't have an idea of how good your chances are before you make the check. Now, I get that being able to see those chances would really change the feel of this game - it would certainly make it less realistic, but it did make the whole mechanics feel... Somehow pointless? Like, why was it necessary to mention 'this will be remembered' if one cannot see how it will effect things until it happens? It seems like it is an unneeded pop-up, since ALL things within reason that you do will be remembered by others. ... sorry if this sounds like I'm being harsh; I do still really like this game. It just came to me when I was thinking: 'what do I specifically Iike/dislike about it'?
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Mar 12, 2023 13:59
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resurgam40 posted:But it does bear repeating, and students of this time period will be able to articulate why: this stuff? This stuff gets people killed. Part of the tension I was expressing there, though, was that snubbing the local nobility could also get you killed, or have heaps of trouble visited on you and yours. Pious or actively needling the abbot like we were, you’re being squashed between two much more powerful people who can really screw you over. Heck, even declining the whole deal would still be snubbing a powerful person. “The god you don’t touch won’t curse you,” but we were gonna have to touch one either way.
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Mar 12, 2023 14:33
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BassMug posted:Part of the tension I was expressing there, though, was that snubbing the local nobility could also get you killed, or have heaps of trouble visited on you and yours. Pious or actively needling the abbot like we were, you’re being squashed between two much more powerful people who can really screw you over. Heck, even declining the whole deal would still be snubbing a powerful person. This is one of those situations where the game tells you what's going on but doesn't fully explain the subtleties-- you have to infer the social dynamics from watching how others react combined with what you know. Here, everybody else involved is sensibly doing their level best to shut the gently caress up and bail on the conversation without pissing off the Baron, even people like Father Thomas who-- although not a landlord or a noble-- has a measure of status and power. Meanwhile our Andreas just yolos on in  what a legend
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Mar 12, 2023 16:05
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BassMug posted:Part of the tension I was expressing there, though, was that snubbing the local nobility could also get you killed, or have heaps of trouble visited on you and yours. Pious or actively needling the abbot like we were, you’re being squashed between two much more powerful people who can really screw you over. Heck, even declining the whole deal would still be snubbing a powerful person. I'm fairly certain there was a lot less random and wanton peasant and/or burgher murder in history than some TV shows want us to believe. Andreas is outside of direct control of either the abbot or the baron, but the abbot is his current employer, they are on the abbey's land, and the heresy thing will reach you wherever you go, if the abbot writes enough letters to the appropriate authorities (provided you're not a noble, or, ideally, a king). On the other hand, being precisely socially correct would be a source of reasonable protection even from your direct feudal lord: being boring and unnoticeable always was a good way to not get screwed over by the powerful, and moderately reasonable people, which the baron so far appears to be, would be at worst annoyed at the loss of engaging entertainment and move on.
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Mar 12, 2023 16:22
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Samovar posted:...it's not a thing that came up in this update, (but it has done in earlier updates) but something that this game does re. persuasion checks that I feel is not as good as, e.g. Disco Elysium, is that you don't see when you will be making a check, and you don't have an idea of how good your chances are before you make the check. I think the big distinction is that there's no random roll element to persuasion checks here - it's simply the consequences of all your relevant choices tallied up. What you don't know is how much specific choices will be weighed against others - if you look back at the persuasion check here, you'll see that offering to help made a big difference, while being a legal pedant only chipped away negatively at the check a little bit by comparison. Anyways this may be my background with playing Telltale games ("Clementine will remember that") but I liked it as a narrative way to enforce that what you just chose Mattered in some way, big or small.
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Mar 12, 2023 16:28
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Regallion posted:A screenshot of "She's in pain" is misplaced to be in the after-dinner section instead of the terrible vision section. Fixed it.
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Mar 12, 2023 16:49
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Samovar posted:Like, why was it necessary to mention 'this will be remembered' if one cannot see how it will effect things until it happens? It seems like it is an unneeded pop-up, since ALL things within reason that you do will be remembered by others. Both Andreas' internal voices and the pop-ups are a way for us to convey that there will be a point in time where the things you are doing will be instrumental in how an NPC reacts to you, so you should keep that in mind when you are making choices in general.
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Mar 12, 2023 21:57
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rope kid posted:If we did not telegraph the instances where things were being remembered, the player could very reasonably conclude that no one is paying attention to anything they are saying/it doesn't matter - until it does. Fair enough. I admit, reading over my comment, that it felt like I was making a mountain out of a molehill - but thanks for the reply!
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Mar 13, 2023 06:35
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Quorum posted:This is one of those situations where the game tells you what's going on but doesn't fully explain the subtleties-- you have to infer the social dynamics from watching how others react combined with what you know. Here, everybody else involved is sensibly doing their level best to shut the gently caress up and bail on the conversation without pissing off the Baron, even people like Father Thomas who-- although not a landlord or a noble-- has a measure of status and power. Meanwhile our Andreas just yolos on in Lokapala posted:I'm fairly certain there was a lot less random and wanton peasant and/or burgher murder in history than some TV shows want us to believe. Fair enough! I wasn’t complaining, we absolutely asked for it, and we got it (and might still get it, more!) This game’s writing kicks rear end.
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Mar 13, 2023 07:24
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Part 7: The Storm The rest of the night passes uneventfully, and Andreas gets up for another day at work. We can hear heavy rainfall outside.   There’s a bit of a scene downstairs. Water drips from the ceiling, and there is an occasional flash of lightning.    No, a little crying won’t hurt her. Besides, I think we’ve gotten almost all the leaks now. Ursula is my first child and she’s been a handful, but I think I have the hang of it now. Big Jorg has been a godsend. He helped Christine with Eva when she was a baby. I never took you for a family man, Andreas. Andreas’s character is still pretty malleable at this point. Let’s hope he’ll eventually grow up some more. I appreciate the offer. You’ll make a fine husband someday, Andreas. Ugh, when will this storm let up? It’s been going all morning. Peter and Jorg are outside, trying to deal with the flooding as best they can. I was going to say, “we don’t give a gently caress about the abbey,” but really almost everyone who lives up there is pretty cool. But you really don’t want to tell the farmers with the leaky roof that you’re worried about their landlord. There’s always a danger with this much rain, but we’ve lived through worse. Whatever happens, it will be as God wills it. We must have faith in Providence and endure what is to come. Oh, I have some food for you.  Didn’t Otto ask me to say hello? He’s probably courting her. Grobian started out pretty funny when he was talking poo poo about the abbot, but sometimes he can be a real dick to people who don’t deserve it. We’re not going to listen to him in cases like this. They’d probably be happy together…  Oh, he did? Haha. Hm. Good. Thank you. Have a good day at the abbey, Andreas. Try to stay dry. Thanks. You too. Good luck. Ursula stops crying and hops up to walk over to Andreas, but he’s already out the door.  Things aren’t looking good on the farm this morning.   It is. It must have broken in the night. Some of our sheep escaped. We’ll have to track them down later. This is the way it always is. Rain falls on the abbey and rolls downhill to us little people. Well, it’s hard to blame the abbey for that. That’s just how rain works. There’s a reason we’re down here and they’re up there, Andreas.Peter knows the score. Anyway, I have to get back to this. See you later.We actually have business back in the house with Clara, so we stop back in now that we know she’s not busy with Ursula’s tantrum anymore.  Hello, Clara. I have something for you. Oh? This should be enough to pay my rent, and the tax you owe to the abbey. Andreas! This is far more than your rent payment. We can’t accept this.Remember, Clara asked for advance rent plus an increase of two groschen, which might be something like 15% of the original amount (I’m not a historian and it’s hard to get good numbers for this kind of thing in 10 minutes on the Internet. The game does not give you a choice here, and Andreas simply offers much more than Clara requested, showing us that his income greatly exceeds the standards of the community and he is unquestionably the kind of person who likes to share the wealth rather than keeping it to himself.   But Andreas, how did you even find so much coin? Are you sure you’ll have enough to spare for yourself? We could have actually robbed the sacristy earlier, but I didn’t bother posting about it because there wasn’t any interesting text in the process. It was trivial to get the money just by asking, so we’d have to be incredibly antisocial to go as far as stealing in these circumstances. God bless you a thousand times, Andreas. You don’t know what this means to us. You’re a good man, Andreas. Thank you. I’ll let you move on with your day. God bless you. Until later. There’s a popup about completing the sidequest, and our journal marks off the task as completed. Now it’s time to head up into town and start heading toward work.  This time, instead of sheep barricades, there’s a big puddle in the street., and apparently Andreas is too dainty to walk around or through it, so we can’t go this way. It’s a clever way for the game to split up the town introductions into a couple of parts by blocking us from some paths on the first day and other paths on the second day.  Good morning, Endris. So… Otto and Eva, huh? Yes? What about them? I’m not a gossip, Andreas. Did he really? Or did you just assume the part all on your own? You’ve started picking up poor habits during your time in Tassing, Andreas. Joke’s on you, buddy, I had all the poor habits before I ever heard of this place. It can’t be the Gertners. Peter is stern. Maybe the monks talk too much? Well, if you ask me, I think Otto’s being a bit too slow about it.Oh? He’s old enough already not to be smitten like a boy. They both like each other. Seems to me, if you’ve found the right person, you should go for it. It’s what I would do. Um. Well, that’s… uh, personal. One of the very few times when Logician gives you an empathetic and reasonable dialog option. … no. I, uh, do hope to find someone to have at my side as we build a family. God has not given me this blessing.To be fair, there are about 100 people living in this village, and the pilgrims to the shrine probably don’t make a point to swing by town to find unmarried men. It’s easy to imagine the local courtship pool drying up completely for a given generation and leaving some poor fellows behind.  One hopes so. Ah, I must get back to work, Andreas. Enough talk. Until later. New part of town, let’s go!  Check out the perfect Bavarian pretzel on the sign. Pretzels came into use as the canonical symbol for bakers in southern Germany in the 12th century.    As God wills it. It’s no trouble at all. Please say hello to Lucky for me. Of course. Now I’m off to home and then to the Pfeiffers.Remember, we met Karl Pfeiffer yesterday afternoon, and he was worried about his wife’s upcoming childbirth because they lost their previous child.   The midwife Agnes absolutely notices what kind of attitude you take toward the people she’s helping through a life-or-death event. Her last one was hard. He didn’t make it, God rest his soul. I just want to give her the best chance she can have. It is in God’s hands. Trust in Providence. Always, Ulrich, but I’ll do what I can to help. Why make the Lord do all the work? I must be off now.  She will appreciate that, Andreas. Thank you. Until later. Until later, Agnes.There’s no gameplay reason to go inside the bakery, but we have to meet the utterly wholesome Alban family.    Back for more of my rye? Andreas! He he. I was passing by and thought I should say hello. Now, I must say goodbye. Aren’t you a good man. Well, you’re always welcome here, Andreas. And always welcome to my rye. Be well! Until later, Grett. CAT   Moving along past the Drucker house and the church, we find Lucky Steinauer speaking with Father Thomas.   It’s affecting the foundation. It needs to be looked at. I understand, but if you dig here, you may be disturbing the bodies decomposing in the yard. Of course, father, but they’re going to be dug back up again anyway. Yes, yes, but why disturb them unnecessarily? It’s your church, father, but you can’t put it off forever. The foundation is going to crack. I understand. Perhaps after some of the bones have been moved to the ossuaries. Thank you, Lucky. Mm.Lucky heads back home. Ah, good day, Master Maler. Good day, Father Thomas. Oh, yes. Lucky was again reminding me of the danger severe rainfall can pose to the foundation. God looks after His flock, but sometimes the pen requires an earthly hand. It will be taken care of. God be with you, Andreas. And with you, Father Thomas. Until later. Before going up the meadow to the abbey and to work, we’re going to take a quick detour into the forest now that the game allows us.  We heard earlier that the peasants had been forbidden from foraging in the forest with their pigs (because presumably the landlord can sell the foraging rights to someone else, or do the foraging and sell off the produce). Now we also learn something about the use of wood from the forest. We’ll have a lengthy post on the history of the commons in Europe later.  At the moment, we have some special characters to meet.  This is Adam “Smokey” Köhler, the charcoal burner. Making charcoal was a job that was done close to the source of wood and required constant attention, so if there was enough demand for someone to do this as their regular profession (rather than ordinary farmers attending to it for some weeks of the year), they would have to live most of the time in a hut in the woods outside of town. There isn’t anything particularly unsavory about burning a coal pile, but the simple fact of residing away from town made the charcoal burner a sort of outcast, and superstitions accumulated over the centuries to enforce this social status.   We met once before, I think. You were drawing something by the uh… the waterfall. I’m Smokey. Well, Adam. But people call me Smokey. Ah! Good. So… is there anything I can do for you?I haven’t used italics for LP-original character voices yet, so here’s your reminder. Why the hell are you wandering over to my place on some random morning? In the pouring rain, no less. Actually, I’m a video game protagonist, and behind my eyes there’s someone with a keyboard who has only been at this for a couple of hours, and they’ve never met you. The game itself didn’t give any particular pretense for them to come to the woods today, so they just wandered over this way because they hadn’t been here yet. No, just being friendly. Oh, of course. Good to see you. Until next time, Master Maler. Until then.We really want to meet the other guy over here.  Hello. You’re not a local, are you? Um… no. I’m staying in Tassing only briefly. No. I mean, I didn’t know him before coming to Tassing. But he’s let me stay with him, so yes, I suppose he is. People don’t much like Romani. Most folk despise anything that’s different. I like staying on the edge of town.I was born and raised in Minnesota, so my general cultural understanding of Romani people is the equivalent of most Europeans’ understanding of Native Americans. I am going to make a post about Romani later, and I hope some helpful thread participant(s) will help contribute some more information to the topic.  Ah, you’re the artist staying up at Kiersau. Yes, just visiting Tasing for some time. My name is Andreas. Andreas Maler. … it’s nice to meet you. Most folk in Tassing don’t come down here to talk. Uh, right. I’m Vacslav. A traveling tinker. I travel from place to place, sharpen knives, mend small things that need mending. That sort of thing. Well, I, uh, actually came to visit Kiersau’s library. I had hoped for one of the monks to read them to me, but… The abbot wouldn’t let me in. … he does seem like an angry man. He threatened to expel me from Tassing entirely. What were you looking for? Uh… well, I explained I was looking for a text about the elements. If they’re primordial, as Aristotle says, then God didn’t create them. They exist with Him, since the dawn of time. Who are we to judge? Not only that, but it explains the presence of the angels and demons before the creation of the world! Of the five elements, angels are fire and air, and demons are water and earth. And the world was aether before the Lord formed it. That’s why Satan appeared as a snake to Eve. Snakes can only dwell in deep caves and pools.I don’t think that’s how snakes work. Also, shouldn’t you be more careful talking like this to people you’ve just met?  … I did not expect such open dialogue with you, Master Maler. Few men with your stature would entertain such ideas with someone like me. Uh… anyway. I should get back to work. Until later, Vácslav.Onward to the meadow, where Til is still rounding up sheep.  Hello, Til. Bumped into any ghosts lately? Hehe. Good, good. Have you ever seen a nicer view? Don’t get sights like this in the cities, I expect. Oh yes, the old Roman ruins. Tassing is full of them. Quite the marvels, they are. I don’t pay much mind to the writing on them, as I can’t read Latin myself, but you might enjoy giving them a look. If you do, you’ll have to tell me if they match the old legends I read about. Well, when Father Matthias was abbot, he would let me borrow books from the abbey’s library.  He and Father Thomas are strict about which books should be read, now. Books should glorify God, they say, not discuss the old pagan ways. Still, the accounts of the Romans in Tassing are my favorite. That old book talked about how the Roman knight Gaius Metellus defeated the uh… Raetü, I think it was. Heavy snowfall had him caught in this very valley, barbarians on all sides, when Mars sent a wolf to the knight.Mars The Roman god of war and agriculture. Mars represented civilization and peace through military might. Instead of killing the beast, Gaius followed it to a magical spring with trees covered in all sorts of fruit.Mars provided the wolf and the spring, and Gaius Metellus founded Tassing after defeating the barbarians to honor Mars. That’s where all this came from. I hadn’t thought of that. Both were snowed into this valley, weren’t they? And saved near a spring. I wonder if it’s the same story. Oh, I don’t know about all that, Master Maler. A lot of stories get mixed up over the years. It might be all fable, but I enjoy the story all the same. It’s nice to feel you’re connected to those who came before you, even if it’s only by the land you live on. It’s been good chatting with you, Master Maler, but I’d better get back to work. You let me know if you find any particularly good books in that library, all right? I will. Until later, Til.As soon as we start walking toward the abbey, Martin comes running past.    Martin respects his crime senpai.  Hey Andreas! Uh… take care of yourself, all right?  He turns and runs off to the left.  So that was a thing that happened. Probably won’t come up again. I should get to the scriptorium. Gernot will give me an earful if I’m late again.Michlaus is preparing the baron’s horse outside the guest house.    The weather is unfortunate, but the baron’s wife, Lady Salomea, will be arriving today. My lord intends to depart as soon as she arrives. How long have they been married? Seven years, now. She’s a fine woman, a true lady. I was hoping to bid farewell to the baron before he leaves. I’m sure he would appreciate that. He spoke highly of you before he went to bed. He was glad you were willing to debate him at supper, even though he’s sure the abbot will hold it against you. Ah ha ha! Then you and my lord have much in common. Good job Andreas, you were very successful at sucking up to the douchebag noble.  He says it’s a small thing compared to future commissions, but he hopes that you will wear it with pride.   As you wish, of course.It seems like Andreas’s fortune is made, and he will now be permanently adorned with a badge of honor for ruining the abbot’s supper last night. Where has your master gone, then? He went for a walk early in the morning. He didn’t say when he’d be back. My lord might surprise you, Andreas. He never minds getting mud on his boots. Of course, I’m the one who has to clean them! A normal person would move along and let this poor servant get back to work, but we’re an adventure game protagonist, so we have to eke out every bit of dialogue we can. Ah, it may be so. I only know him as my lord for these last seven years. That reminds me. Did you see a short, surly looking young man in a hat on your way up this morning? Hah, no. He was shorter than you by two hands, at least. I ain’t no fuckin snitch. Ah. That’s a shame. Some of my lord’s rings went missing, along with some gulden.gulden Gold coins used as currency throughout the Holy Roman Empire. Though different standards exist for the gulden in different regions, it is generally equivalent to the Florentine florin. No need to concern yourself, though. My lord is a man of means. He won’t miss them. In any case, I must finish preparing the horses. It was good talking to you, Andreas. Of course. I hope this rain lets up for you soon. God willing. Until next time. Until then.Up to the abbey. In a neat touch, the monks are dealing with a leaky roof too.  The bucket is strategically placed to prevent us from entering the chapter house, where all of the monks are currently meeting, so there's no one for us to talk to. All we can do is get to work.  Next time: plot actually happens, I promise s__herzog fucked around with this message at 03:19 on Mar 16, 2023 |
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Mar 15, 2023 06:25
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It isn't mentioned in the text of the game, but it's little wonder that the village gets flooded when it rains heavily - the aqueducts that would have diverted excess rainfall are destroyed, after all.
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Mar 15, 2023 08:25
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Best game. s__herzog posted:
Uh oh. Samovar posted:It isn't mentioned in the text of the game, but it's little wonder that the village gets flooded when it rains heavily - the aqueducts that would have diverted excess rainfall are destroyed, after all. Yes, but what did the Romans ever do for us?
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Mar 15, 2023 10:25
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Truly, a goon before his time. Rapscallion/Logician Andreas would never stop posting.
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Mar 15, 2023 12:10
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Never played this game, but I think things will not end well for the romani herectic
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Mar 15, 2023 13:27
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Vacslav is probably my favorite background character in the game, and one would certainly hope his loquaciousness about a lot of stuff that really isn't healthy to talk a lot about in this time period, is because he just doesn't talk to people much. Understandable, you know, considering. I'm not the thing to make the effort post the Romani deserve, but... things typically didn't (and don't) end up well for them, no.
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Mar 15, 2023 15:15
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Samovar posted:It isn't mentioned in the text of the game, but it's little wonder that the village gets flooded when it rains heavily - the aqueducts that would have diverted excess rainfall are destroyed, after all. the aqueducts are not for stormwater drainage, but for bringing large volumes of fresh water to population centers throughout history, most cities didn't deal much with drainage, and rural areas rarely did. the level of infrastructure necessary is difficult to organize and maintain beyond a basic reinforced ditch - much easier to simply avoid settling in floodplains and boggy ground if possible, letting water flow naturally downhill into wetlands and rivers. of course it wasn't always possible to avoid living on wet ground, and so even in cities up until fairly recently social distance was more important than spatial distance, meaning that wealthier and more privileged people would live relatively near to poorer or discriminated people, but on higher ground, for both better air and cooling as well as to not have to deal with stormwater runoff draining into your garden consider also that before automobiles, there were a lot more animals around and so on, and sewers were rare compared to simple cesspits and pooping in holes in the ground... that water which flowed downhill was often rich and interesting, laden with content since the romans were organized enough to built giant water pipes all over the landscape, they sometimes paired this with built sewers and drainage as well. rome was notable for having ancient sewers, and parts of the ancient sewer works are still in use! the former main outfall is called the cloaca maxima
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Mar 15, 2023 18:01
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I just want to say that this thread has convinced me to get and re-read *The Name of the Rose*.
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Mar 16, 2023 00:05
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s__herzog posted:
But really, the themes are already quite strong.
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Mar 16, 2023 01:23
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I just got assigned to a large language model project at work, so I've been spending some time chatting with Bing.  These are only the most basic questions that came to mind before I started digging deeper. Asking it for detailed help solving mysteries and exploring interpersonal conflicts within the fictional setting gets really fun. s__herzog fucked around with this message at 03:14 on Mar 16, 2023 |
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Mar 16, 2023 02:53
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s__herzog posted:I just got assigned to a large language model project at work, so I've been spending some time chatting with Bing. I wonder how Sydney would relate these stories. This is one of my favorite transitions in the game, because of how it says as much about Andreas as it does about Til. On the one hand, we have the bias getting a hole poked in it... but on the other hand, we see how Andreas appreciates the value of reading and learning more generally.
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Mar 16, 2023 03:19
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idonotlikepeas posted:I wonder how Sydney would relate these stories. I’m glad you pointed this out, because it’s easy to miss in screenshot form. Another reason for everyone to buy and play the game!
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Mar 16, 2023 11:02
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Part 8: The Incident  Good thing the abbot had Otto replace the roof to the scriptorium and library last month. With the calefactory next door, we can stay warm while everyone else is cold and wet.calefactory A communal warming room in monasteries. Calefactories are usually attached to the cloister, but in Kiersau it is part of the old abbey, and therefore connected to the old scriptorium. It keeps the monks warm and the library dry.  Instead of bragging about our good fortune, you should think upon your brothers and sisters and pray for their health and safety. The abbot’s foresight saved a lot of our work and protected what’s in the library. The town hasn’t fared as well. I’m sure they’ll be fine. More importantly, if they’re not, I don’t care. Brother Guy, your heart is harder than the stone of this floor! Huh. We have the grumpy old monk, but where’s the nice one? Brother Piero? Haven’t you seen him yet today? I did, before Brother Guy arrived. Brother Piero left to speak to the abbot some time ago.A bell starts ringing.  I pray it stops soon. Such a cacophony is an assault on my frail ears. It’s not stopping. I suppose this means we’re being summoned to the chapter house. God, give me the strength to endure the rain. It’s fifty feet, old man. You’ll live. God, give me the strength to endure this man.Guy and Aedoc get up and walk out. The bell continues to ring.  I should see what’s the matter. FYI, this is the calefactory, just to the left of the scriptorium.  We hear a high-pitched scream as we approach the door to the dormitory.  The scream repeats just after we enter the cloister.  A few steps further, a higher and more intense scream.   Soundtrack: The Body   Be silent, brother. Brother Florian, if you please.Brother Florian walks over, reaches down to briefly touch the body, then gently takes the knife from Brother Piero.    Sister Margarete, calm yourself! Sister Gertrude, please take Sister Margarete back to the garden. Yes, Mother Cecilia.Sisters Gertrude and Margarete walk out, and Brother Mathieu runs in.    This abbey is odd in more than one way. Its existence offends some in the church. We are far enough from Rome and Mainz that everyone forgets about us, but… this could bring unwanted attention. Florian… how easily do you think you could… dispose of this body?Everyone from the monastery here, and the abbot immediately and publicly goes for “hide the body so the prince-bishop doesn’t catch us” without trying to talk through it first. Born leader, this guy.  Florian can’t believe he just heard that sequence of words come out of the abbot’s mouth.  Father abbot, what are you saying?  To be fair to the abbot, this is a legitimate existential crisis for the abbey. He just doesn’t know any other way to react than by panicked over-exertion of authority.  Everyone understands the stakes now. Silence! Quiet! Calm yourselves, all of you.Mother Cecilia takes one step forward to grab the abbot’s attention. Father abbot, Baron Roghvogel’s manservant is already preparing to leave. The baron’s wife should be here in a matter of hours. This is not the time for rash decisions. Yes… yes. You’re right. Forgive me. But then, what will we do? We must send the baron’s man to the court of the prince-bishop in Freising at once. Mother Cecilia, the baron said the prince-bishop’s archdeacon was in Innsbruck for the imperial diet. Even better. Swift action will silence any whispers of impropriety on our part. Given the baron’s stature, the archdeacon will undoubtedly come to investigate immediately. We must cooperate with him fully and pray for a speedy resolution. Yes… yes. Good. Thank you, Mother Cecilia. Brother Wojslav, please detain Brother Piero in the cellar until the prince-bishop’s man arrives. The thread has decreed that we must protect Brother Piero. Now is the time.    It wasn’t your will I was going to test, father. He was caught in flagrante delicto! Covered in blood with a knife in his hand!in flagrante delicto “In blazing offense”. Indicating an individual has been caught in the act of committing a crime.  Father, do you really believe that Brother Piero is capable of such a foul deed? Yes! Capable enough when motivated by anger. I had no anger against the baron, father abbot. I simply came across him like this. No anger? Not even for insulting your work and forcing us to give it to Andreas? This is not a subject for debate. When the prince-bishop’s man arrives, we must not be empty handed.    My decision stands. Brother Wojslav will detain Brother Piero in the cellar until I say otherwise. Brother Florian, please escort Andreas out of the abbey. Andreas, do not show your face here again until tomorrow. Do you understand me. After a couple of seconds of wordless glarin, Brother Florian indeed escorts us outside.  I’m sure the other brothers and sister believe Piero is innocent as well, but the abbot is worried about the prince-bishop’s attention. I appreciate your passion, but if you pursue this indelicately, you could make matters worse.Brother Florian, you don’t understand, we’ve done everything indelicately so far, and we’re not showing any signs of changing. Take a few hours to calm your nerves and your mind. You need to think clearly. Go to the Druckers, eat a good meal, and come back at Nones.Nones Monastic hour corresponding to 3 P.M. One of the little hours of prayer. We won’t have much time, but tap on my window with a small stone and I’ll let you in. Let me in for what? To examine the body.  Hopefully it will clear my head.All the way back to Tassing and the Druckers’ house.   Andreas… are you all right?  No, forgive me. Come inside and sit down for a minute.  Not an imposition at all. My friends are always welcome in my home. Besides, I could use your opinion on something.   Oh, my! Claus, you must invite Andreas over more often so I can hear someone compliment my food. Ehh. Your cooking is lovely, darling.   Sleepy. Come back to my workshop. What do you think of these new ones? Thank you. I’ll be sure to let Marie know. Are these her woodcuts? They are. The drawings were mine, but she did the block cuts. I’ve got enough talent to draw the designs, but only she can do the woodcuts and the type.Dinner is ready. Everyone sits down at the table.  Through Christ, our Lord, amen.     Sausage, spaetzle, and buttered bread. A little light on the vegetables, but a pretty decent meal. The visiting nobleman, Lorenz Rothvogel, was found murdered in the chapter house. God in Heaven! He just rode by here yesterday. Yes. And it gets worse. One of the elderly brothers I work with in the scriptorium, Brother Piero, was accused of the crime. That’s awful! A murder in Kiersau? How could a monk do such a thing? I’m sorry, Andreas. The baron seemed like an interesting man, and I know he’s been a patron of the abbey for years. How did he die? Could it have been an accident? And does the abbot really believe that Brother Piero killed him? You’ve always spoken of him in the kindest terms. But no, I can’t believe Piero did it. I can’t imagine him harming anyone. Stabbed?! It’s hard for me to imagine a monk doing that as well, but who knows? Oh, but could it have been one of the sisters?! But if it wasn’t Brother Piero, who do you think could have done it? I did see Lucky Steinauer get into a shouting argument with Lorenz yesterday just before I walked by your place. Lucky? Why would he have cause to shout at a nobleman? There’s probably something else going on that you wouldn’t know about, dear. What do you mean by that? I’m not one to trade gossip, but if you really want to know, talk to some of the other women in town. … or Mother Cecilia up at the abbey.  Oh, there’s no need for that. Lucky is a forthright man. I’m sure if you ask him, he’ll tell you what the argument was about. Thank you, both. That’s good advice. There’s something else, though. When Lorenz and I were walking through the meadow, the Widow Kemperyn came out of the woods and… Yes? Well, she cursed him. I’m not surprised. Ottilia’s late husband, Running, ran afoul of Lorenz on his last visit to Tassing. I don’t remember the details, but Rannig died just last year and Ottilia hasn’t been the same since.  She was always an old bitch, even before she was old. Claus! That’s enough! She’s had to deal with a Job’s lot in life. And now she lives all alone at the edge of the woods. There are rumors she’s going to lose her property soon. I do pity her, even if she is a b- … bitter woman. There should be some exception in the law for her to inherit. Surely Andreas the crimes lawyer can solve this case. Did she come from a wealthy family? She did, in fact. Wealthier than Rannig’s anyway. If the land they lived on was part of her dowry, she may make a case to lay claim to it or property of equal value. One more great reaction to add to the pile. Enough about Ottilia. Is there anyone else you think may have done it? I don’t know if he has any ill intent, but Prior Ferenc has been acting strangely since the day Lorenz arrived. Perhaps an academic disagreement? I know they’re both avid readers, both of classics and new works. On his last visit, the baron bought a book on astronomy from me. I know the prior has some similar interests. But would the prior kill someone over a simple disagreement? It’s not that outlandish. When I was in university, I saw men throw punches over small academic concerns. What is an opinion for some is a testament of faith for others, and worth killing for. That may be so, but I’ve never seen that sort of anger in Prior Ferenc, not even when Gernot was made abbot instead of him. Afterward, he seemed bitter, but never violent. That just doesn’t seem to be part of his character. So… Lucky, the widow, and the abbey prior. Anyone else? There was something strange when we approached the abbey together, Mother Cecilia was outside with some of the sisters. Mother Cecilia scowled and took the nuns inside without saying a word. It sounds like they have a history, at least. I do not know Mother Cecilia personally, but I have never heard anyone speak badly of her. If she had cause to dislike the baron, I must believe she had good reason. Well, Andreas, it sounds like there’s a lot to look into. You are always welcome here, Andreas, any time. You are especially welcome with this one.     I could talk to Lucky Steinauer. He’s probably working in front of his house. The Widow Kemperyn lives south of here, near Frantz Bauer. Prior Ferenc is usually at the scriptorium, but I won’t be able to talk to him until tomorrow. Still, nothing would prevent me from talking to Mother Cecilia in the convent. But if I don’t attend Brother Florian’s examination of the body at the abbey, he’ll have to do it without me.Thread participation time! The game has turned into a murder mystery, and Andreas finally has as much freedom as he ever will to explore the village and the abbey, talk to people, and go through various events to investigate the murder. There are a certain number of time-consuming events we can choose to do, and a few time periods when we can do them. It’s impossible to follow up on every lead in one playthrough. There are also a limited number of meal times, which we can choose to spend with various families in town. The in-game map now highlights the locations of major investigation options:    The next update should get us through a lap around town for a bunch of minor conversations, plus one major investigation event, so we won’t necessarily need to vote on meal choices yet. I am making executive decisions to attend the autopsy with Brother Florian tomorrow and spend one meal with Brother Sebhat, but beyond that, the direction of the investigation is up to the thread. First, overall, which suspects do you want to spend the most time looking into? The four options are Lucky Steinauer, Prior Ferenc, Ottilia Kemperyn, and some unknown nun(s) in the convent. It may not make sense to check with the thread for specific decisions at each step, so getting a general idea will help me keep things moving along. Second, what is our first place to go? The options are:
These four choices will still be available the next day, along with a couple of new ones that will open up later. s__herzog fucked around with this message at 03:23 on Mar 18, 2023 |
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Mar 18, 2023 01:31
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I vote we should go bother Lucky sooner than later. We also want to look into Ottilia's situation at some point. If possible, I'd suggest eavesdropping on the spinning bee, too. You never know what could come out there. Quackles fucked around with this message at 02:42 on Mar 18, 2023 |
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Mar 18, 2023 02:35
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Aw, there goes all our rear end-kissing. Oh well! And lord, do the meals in this game look tasty. I should save pics of’em when we get to each! Edit: Also, what Quackles said.
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Mar 18, 2023 02:51
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Quackles posted:I vote we should go bother Lucky sooner than later. We also want to look into Ottilia's situation at some point.
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Mar 18, 2023 03:02
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quote:We must cooperate with hum fully and pray for a speedy resolution. I think you meant him there. Also an incomplete bold bracket at the end too btw. As for voting.... Let's go with the spinning bee.
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Mar 18, 2023 03:09
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Cooked Auto posted:I think you meant him there. I always appreciate the quality control, thanks!
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Mar 18, 2023 03:24
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BassMug posted:Aw, there goes all our rear end-kissing. Oh well! It's all right, us getting the baron's token means we maxed his affection meter, so his extra scenario and full gallery will be unlocked in new game plus. Keeping him alive longer requires some serious sequence-breaking, anyway. s__herzog, the following lines are missing associated character images: "I don’t know if he has any ill intent" "Father, do you really believe that" Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 04:30 on Mar 18, 2023 |
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Mar 18, 2023 04:27
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I vote for Lucky and Otilla - but also the Doctor.
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Mar 18, 2023 05:52
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Lucky and Otillia are worth investigating. Anyhow, there's a nice collection of swearwords at the death scene - the two non-obvious ones on the screenshots are Czech (or adjacent -. "Do prdele!" literally means "to the rear end" and is probably our most generally used curse, used for everything from telling people off to resigned sighs; that being said, it shouldn't be part of a nun's vocabulary which might tell us a bit about Sister Zdena. "Co to sakra...?" is a fair bit tamer, almost literally "what the hell?", the last bit being an adapted version of Latin "sacra" - sacred things, so it's just a mild profanity. e: Not sure now, did we talk about the "surnames" of characters yet? Although that would be definitely better left for someone with a much finer grasp of German.
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Mar 18, 2023 09:57
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Looks like we're already getting set on a path, but I would like to throw out a vote for following up with the nuns and finding out as much as you can from that lead.
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Mar 18, 2023 10:42
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