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RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!
AV Clan Republic

Just roll over everyone with a big ball of dwarf

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RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!

Soylent Pudding posted:

I understand the meta is to take quality because the advantage in manpower reserves ends up mattering more than elite troops in long drawn out wars. That said I feel like the quality bonuses are so powerful it would be OP if the other half of the idea set wasn't naval.

I feel that unless you're going for a world conquest, or if you're really bad at the game (like I am) it's more fun to take flavorful roleplaying choices than optimum meta builds.

e: since we're unlocking a new unit type could we see the pips of the old and new units?

Quantity is usually considered "meta" because there's a point where you have a ton of cash and if you don't have any forcelimit boosters you can't turn that money directly into military strength. Until you can field multiple armies with full artillery backlines + a few infantry stacks for reinforcements you will always benefit more from having more men than from better troops.

Eventually you get forcelimit buildings (and other mil buildings) and this is no longer such an issue but considering the huge benefit you get in the early and midgame it's well worth it

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!
D,E

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!
Surface

EU4's trade system has some issues but it's one of the biggest drivers of player goals in the game, both long and short term, and I think this does a good job of showing why.

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!
A,B

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!
A1 TRAINS TRAINS TRAINS

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!
2 E

Aesculus posted:

How much development/manpower are we compared to Gawed and Bhuvauri?

Yeah, it would be interesting to see the ledger to see how everyone lines up in terms of income and manpower.

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!
Unless something I'm not familiar with about the mod makes naval ideas more appealing or we really need to bump up our naval forcelimit in this situation, I'd suggest quality ideas instead as they make both land and sea troops stronger. There's no getting around having a decent army even if your navy is the best, and if we end up with a ton of naval related bonuses from being a pirate republic already, getting an entire idea group which also focuses on having a better navy might be redundant.

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!

Hiveminded posted:

There are some good naval bonuses from pirate republic government reforms, but they'll take a while to reach and don't nearly add up to what a full commitment to Naval ideas would offer for actually winning naval battles. I think it's better to view those reforms as an eventual offset to the gnoll racial military penalty for water; -10% ship durability and +10% fire damage received by default aren't trivial penalties, and while we can get a good chunk of naval morale, some heavy ship combat ability, and admiral fire pips/more naval tradition out of pirate republic, everything else related to navies for the government actually mostly concerns forcelimit, ship cost/maintenance, and ship capture chance. All three of which are baked in pretty much at the start.

The problem and point here is that any big opponent like Lorent -- or heaven forbid, a strong Gnomish Hierarchy -- which may end up taking Naval ideas could easily outfight Mykx on the water, even as Mykx eventually comes to field a navy several times the size of anyone else's and replaces losses pretty much for free. It's kind of parallel to the classic situation of Britain in vanilla EU4 where it can outfight any other nation on the water unless that nation takes Naval ideas and Britain doesn't, in which case the dynamic reverses and Britain has to go and clown on them by land instead. (Never really an issue in SP, but a very different story in MP and a potential issue here for a few different reasons.) So taking Quality to fight somewhat better on both land and sea isn't as straightforward as it may seem. You're right that having a decent army will always be relevant, and Quality Gnolls at this stage of the game will crush everything on land. Also Naval can always just be taken later if one of the other big colonial powers takes the group, if we're being meta about how the choices presented here will always be available for the player to go back for and take at some point. But there does exist a risk that neglecting Naval ideas will eventually drop the group as an option entirely in the narrative and screw the nation over later.

I'd forgotten about the racial penalties, that is significant enough that a stronger naval focus isn't unwarranted. I guess some races probably also get naval bonuses so even more reason to take naval ideas.

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!
It seems weird that your god stat admiral can become a completely poo poo ruler, I get that they might not be amazing at admin / diplo but you'd think that they would at least be semi competent and have above average mil skill.

I just looked this up on the wiki and for some reason there's a 25% chance for each ruler stat that it's just a random roll of 0-3 which doesn't take the admiral's stats into account, so even the best admiral has a high chance of at least one bad stat

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!

shades of blue posted:

I'm not sure where you're seeing this? I think you're reading the formula wrong. The formula is the same as for ordinary ruler generation, you just multiply your rolls on each stat by a factor of ((9 + sum(Pips))/18). In the case of Rri, this would be (9+16)/18 or in other words, each ruler stat is multiplied by a factor of 1.38. We can then say that we rolled 0, 0 for adm, 0, 1 for mil, and 1,1 (or 0,2) for dip. We just rolled, like, incredibly badly.

Oh yeah I misread the placement of a bracket in the formula, that makes much more sense.

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!
We're already way behind on admin points (still only halfway through religious ideas), dropping expansion and avoiding any new admin idea groups right now sounds like a smart idea.

And we absolutely should take at least one mil idea, both offensive and quality are really good and having both of them would be fine, quality will buff the army and navy together so might be the better choice if we do need even more naval power. Trade ideas are also usually a really good pick in my experience.

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!

RubricMarine posted:

What are the use cases for getting mercenary ideas anyway? I feel like they're basically only used in the starting few decades of a game before your force limit basically becomes infinite. Is it just for gimmick runs where you take advantage of NIs to get dirt cheap troops, basically?

Basically this, yeah. The classic would be Switzerland in vanilla EU4 but there's some other use cases as well. It gets pretty broken if you can stack enough bonuses.

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!
I just caught up on this again and wanted to say how great this thread has been.

p.s. pick the kobolds drat yall

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!

habituallyred posted:

Divine would be narratively appropriate but I think defensive is better for us. I don't suppose Mercenary helps with inflation?

These are all purely military bonuses except for Divine which has some other stuff mixed in there but not anything to do with inflation as far as I recall.

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!
Seems like we've already got a decent number of incentives to develop our territory so Infrastructure is a solid pick, it also has reduced fort maintenance which has synergy with our existing defensive stuff. Plus I want to see you abuse that -100% depletion gold mine, inflation be damned!

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RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!
That was a lot more adorable than I was expecting :3:

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