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Update 38 - The End, Bad Moral Click here for the end of the game.   Now Playing - Cosmic Voyagers (Peace & Love Mix)  You may have wondered why I kept making jokes about the date when doing Captain's Logs with Edge. That's because the game never clarifies what date it is outside of a few instances. Off the top of my head, Edge says it's Space Date 10 at the start (but not when in Space Date 10), then there's Reimi's birthday (not stated in game, but the entries clarify it's March 28th), and Edge's birthday (July 30th). Then all of a sudden, at the end of the game, you get "one year later, Space Date 12". When the gently caress did it become Space Date 11? How long was the party travelling for? How long did they spend on Aeos? Lemuris? Cardianon? Alt Earth? Roak? En II? And how long did each travelling segment actually take? All mysteries lost to time. I wouldn't make anything of it if they never mentioned it, but we're slapped with Space Date 12 right at the end. The only reference I even found to this date change is some website being like "at some point it becomes Space Date 11". Also I think I've discovered a discrepancy between the different Star Ocean's timelines. Star Ocean 3's dictionary claims the Space Date system began four years after Trillas Bachtein discovered warp in 2087 AD. Last Hope's entry claims it was started in 2090 AD. Four years after 2087 would be 2091, not 2090. tri-Ace can't even keep its own story straight.  You may notice that Earth has rather quickly recovered from being an uninhabitable world of pollution. Perhaps this is the one square of pure, blue ocean? Or perhaps the air outside is still actually poisonous to everyone?  "Mankind has taken its first steps into the vast ocean known as space, expanding our knowledge of a world shrouded in mystery."  "I ask you, then: How are we to proceed?"The crowd gasps and murmurs.  "If we have been entrusted with even a small part of our universe's fate, the answer is simple: We must learn the order of the galaxy, and protect it."  Reimi's rocking her "modern" look for this cutscene. "At the consensus of all on Earth, and as a member of this great galaxy..." "A guide to protecting peace in the universe..."  UP3 posted:Underdeveloped Planet Preservation Pact Anyone who has played a Star Ocean game before this one knows what the UP3 is. Only in those games it's a matter of the Pangalactic Federation and not the "Terran Alliance". Everyone claps at the presentation of the UP3.   "Yes, heroes, who paved our way into space with great difficulty...who never once backed down from adversity to the very end."   To nobody's great surprise, Edge Maverick is most assuredly alive. We'll find out how very soon.  Aaaaaand cut.  That's Faize's Sol. Because you see, he called it at the last moment to save his best buddy. Yaaaaaaay. Of course given we saw Edge drifting in space, one wonders how he didn't asphyxiate before it arrived. Something something magical atmosphere still present, I assume.       Just to cap off this emotional moment, we need an unwarranted Reimi slap. Lovely. Yes, I know they're going for "she's upset he made them worry, but is really happy" or what have you, but gently caress that trope.   "Why are YOU crying, I'm the one that got slapped!"      And cut.     "We intend to foster fine relationships, compensating each other for the areas in which we lack. And of course, we intend to support the Eldarians' emigration efforts completely."   "Not long ago, a coordinate signal arrived from our ancestors, thousands of years old...We discovered that those coordinates matched Lemuris exactly." Wow, whodathunkit? The planet with one letter off of Lemuria was the one they sought. This means that Lymle's race and Faize's race were biological cousins this whole time. That means they're at least breeding compati  "Together with our own flesh-and-blood brethren, we will use Eldarian technology to build a wonderful planet." "The Missing Procedure was suppressed only through the cooperation of both Earthlings and Eldarians. "Ex" offers thanks, and wishes to continue cultural exchange. Of course, certain limits will have to be set." "Earthlings, Eldarians, Morphus...People of Lemuris and Roak...Indeed, all the intelligent life forms we are sure to encounter...I'm certain we will be able to join hands with them. As we will be continuing to explore undeveloped planets, your experiences will be invaluable."    "And naturally, as "gods," they clung to us. They truly believed we would grant them happiness." *Concerned ellipsis* "Hmm...I have to agree. It is indeed similar..." "In the end, the Cardianon were destroyed...by the very powers granted to them by the Grigori they worshipped."   "Edge..."Oh, you loving moron. For starters, they didn't "grow intoxicated" because you gave them technology, they were intoxicated from the start. Milla was batshit insane. For another, they wouldn't have been destroyed if someone hadn't unbelievably stupidly handed them the technology in the first place. Please, do not undersell your role in destroying that planet, Edge, even if the whole universe tries to tell you it wasn't your fault. "In all probability, we'll continue to set foot on many more distant planets. But some of them will still have young civilizations. If we were to extend our hands to them...It would mean their evolution would cease to be their own. It would cease to be rightful. It would be warped evolution. We would be forcing futures on those planets that they would otherwise have no way of choosing on their own." I can appreciate being opposed to recklessly advancing civilizations, but this "no better than the Grigori" poo poo is loving stupid. "We'll become like the Missing Procedure...entities that would cause the entire universe to collapse!"The only time you caused such destruction was by STUPIDLY handing over your tech with no caution, Edge. "I do understand your point of view, Mr. Maverick." "If we guide these peoples toward proper evolution, our universe will more rapidly become hospitable. Wouldn't that be the best future for all concerned?"While I'm not necessarily proposing going around "enlightening" pre-warp civilizations, it is true that if you're not trying to engineer self-destructive evolution, you'll never be near the level of the Grigori. Indeed, were you to carefully provide aid to such a civilization, rather than recklessly and stupidly handing an exalithium crystal to an evil nazi lady, you might avoid causing any destruction at all. Of course, whether that's a good idea overall is another debate.  "Mr. Maverick..." "Taking evolution simply handed to you is easy...but if I were to acknowledge that..."     Now Playing - Tears in the Sun Make a Rainbow "Of course he's dead...or vanished into the void...but you know what I mean! All he wanted was to protect everything...That's why he craved that immense power. He had a just heart, a kind heart. But the power was simply too immense, and distorted even his kindness...I...I ceased to believe in him...But even so, in the end, he understood me...He...accepted me...And most of all...he saved me." "I won't let those last moments we spent together go to waste."In any other world, this would be the point that the world leaders would tell Edge Maverick he has no business dictating policy to them.  "What...?" "Mr. Gaghan...you can't..." "It's all right. If our brother accepted your decision, we can have no complaints. We will begin on Lemuris anew."Now Playing - Ruin and Creation (Monologue Mix) Hoo boy, lets think this through for a moment, shall we? The game is presenting this as a noble sacrifice by the Eldarians, to shed their civilization in order to begin again on Lemuris. Except, Gaghan doesn't seem to be considering just how much of an impact the Eldarians might have on Lemuris, even if they don't bring a speck of technology with them. Diseases? Destruction of eco-systems? What about the possibility that some Eldarians might have a change of tune a few days in and start conquering Lemurisians? On top of that, Gaghan seems to have made a decision he treats as fact for their whole species. I suppose we don't know if Eldarians have any sort of democratic process, but we do know that Gaghan isn't their dictator. What if they don't want to sign up with this endeavour? What if they want to keep all their technology? What if they want that and to colonize Lemuris anyway? But of course, this is all moot, because this is animu fantasy land, and the Eldarians will fall in line behind Gaghan when he mentions Saint Maverick gave him a lecture. Also maybe the Lemurisians should have a say in whether goodness knows how many Eldarians start living on their planet? No?  "...Very well. En II will remain hidden in space. And we shall continue to observe the Missing Procedure, as well."We can tell that all this UP3 stuff is meant to be like the Prime Directive from Star Trek. The whole idea that you shouldn't interfere with the natural evolution of a civilization. However, in Trek, warp-capable civilizations associated freely with each other, and only pre-warp civilizations were protected by law. Last Hope decides that the Morphus need to hide away in order to make sure they don't "evolve" anyone else with their super tech. It sets a weird precedent: does every civilization that is more evolved than another need to hide itself so it doesn't influence other nearby civilizations? If Earth reaches En II levels of civilization, do they need to start hiding themselves from other, less capable warp civilizations? Of course the real reason they're doing this is because the Morphus never factored into any of the earlier games and they'd make a massive plot hole as an active member of the Pangalactic Federation, or even just being available for comment. "Giotto...are you absolutely sure?" "Of course. It's not a problem. You know, "Ex" is rather fond of you."And then there's this omnipotent AI thing that exists in both past and future or whatever, and somehow it got taught a lesson by a witless shonen protagonist. Billions of years of civilization shown up by Edge Maverick having a maudlin episode in an alternate dimension.  "Commander..." "Very well. We will no longer seek technological assistance from the Eldarians or En II." Just imagine if they came this far and hard headed bureaucrats foiled their animu idealism.  "Indeed it won't. Of course, you'll have my full support, sir."   And cut.  We see the USTA has exchanged its black uniforms for white ones, signifying that they're the good USTA now, I guess. Because we all know that white is synonymous with better, right?   "The story of the heroes that saved the universe-a story known only to a few-has reached its conclusion."Then we cut to Lemuris.  Brief aside, but that character with Lutea is actually a recurring one called Ruddle. He shows up in all kinds of situations in Star Ocean games. You can also do a sidequest with him on Roak, where he's a former Sydonaist that needs your help turning over a new leaf. No idea if it's the same guy, or if there's just a billion Ruddles running around.     "Lutie! We're gonna have a million billion new Faize friends, 'kay?" "Wait, WHAT!?"Then to En II.        Bacchus runs into the building after his wife. Then we cut to Roak.         And then elsewhere on Roak.     And back to En II.    And then outside En II.    And nobody ever heard from the Morphus again.  Hoo boy, here we are with the Eldarians insisting on colonizing their "holy land".       "As much as I'd like to support my brethren, there is an exactly zero percent chance I'm spending my dying years listening to that obnoxious kid call me "Mattie" all day."   Oh, I guess the USTA is now just the TA.    "I appoint you to the position of interplanetary transport first officer."  "I'm sorry, sir, It's just this uniform...it's kind of uncomfortable..." "Just bear it a little longer. There's someone I'd like to introduce you to." "Introduce us to?" "He's the man who designed the new ship you'll be flying."    "Klaus!?"  "He's the man who managed to implement the Eldarian warp technology we received-a living legend of the Terran Alliance." "Commander...I mean, President...please don't flatter me too much. I'm afraid it might go to my head." "Y-yes sir! I, transport captain Edge Maverick, take full responsibility for your ship, sir." "You two may not have had much publicity, but I've heard all about you from the President." "...Huh?" "We still have to rely on Eldarian technology for the moment, but my dream is to surpass it someday, with technology developed here on Earth. I promise I'll create a warp drive even more advanced than the Eldarians' subspace bubble technology." *Realizing gasp* Now Playing - Cosmic Voyagers (Spring Wind Mix) "What is it?" "Really...that's all it is." "Edge...do you think we made..." "Yeah. This is how it should be. Definitely...how it should be..."    "We hereby take up our positions as interplanetary transport officers!"And end scene. This is where the credits would roll...if it weren't for the Character Endings we earned. The payoff for all that affinity farming we did, all those awful PAs we watched, is a brief epilogue for all the relevant characters. Click here to see the character endings for yourself. We start with Lymle.   Even Lymle has gotten in on the White Power movement. She's also started growing a bit.  Random Boy: "I'm done!" Random Girl: "Come on Lym, come on! Hurry, hurry!" "Now, now. Don't rush me, 'kay?" Now Playing - Peace of Mind  Random Boy: "Lym, you're the coolest!" Random Girl: "The flowers are so beautiful..." "Eh-hee..."    And thar she ends. Perhaps Lymle needs to grow flower fields to fend off the impending ecological disaster caused by too many Eldarians?     I am positive that Bacchus' wife is voiced by the same woman who voiced Michelle in Infinite Undiscovery.   "Yes. And now that we're together again, I want to bring you more than warmth. I want to bring you heat, Freesia..."Freesia: " That's not very like you." Now Playing - Ruin and Creation (Monologue Mix) Freesia: "I see. That sounds truly wonderful." "So it was. I first met them while pursuing my duty, during the investigation of a planet called Cardianon in the Arcturus system..."  "...?"  End scene.    Now Playing - Good Morning, Miss Vineyard   "I said I'm never coming back, not ever, meow! And I'm not alleycat!! MEOW!" "Stop calling me alleycat already! I'm never, ever, ever coming back! MEOW!"      Oh man, what a twist! Meracle ended up as the Feline Gourmand! EDIT: Originally, I was lead to believe by the fan wiki that Star Ocean Anamnesis stated that Meracle's birthday was set as 2080 AD. However, the user Polsy has provided me with a screenshot from Anamnesis (which is otherwise a dead game, but an offline version exists that lets you read things) which clarifies her birthdate as "relative to Edge's group" (エッジたちと相対的に合わせた生年月日).  Thus, two possibilities are open; -Meracle is a time traveler, having been born in Roak's future, reading the Feline Gourmand, and then space time shenanigans took her to Alt Earth and then back to Edge's dimension, but during his time, and becoming the Feline Gourmand. -Meracle is from an alternate dimension that somehow had all this happen but slightly askew? I favour the time travel explanation if only because it's the simplest one with fewer logical leaps. It does create a paradox, but those are a dime a dozen in sci-fi. Anyway, moving on.  Now Playing - Wild Fight, No End in Sight   "Oh, no, this is not good. In fact, it's worse than when I was with Merry."Turquoise Hair Fellpool: "Legs! Thighs!" Red Hair Fellpool: "Wings!" "Something about those words sounds awfully sinister."       Now Playing - The Bunny Hop   End scene. Sarah probably asphyxiated herself attempting to fly into space.     "In the beginning, all I could feel was hatred...I thought there was no way I would ever be able to find happiness in a world without you." "...Thank you, Lucien. Thank you for leaving me your message...And..." "I want to thank you two as well. Thank you...for setting me free from my anger and despair..."Myuria walks away from the grave, and the scene ends.   Earthling: "...Huh? H-how do you-" "Nothing special. I have some experience with Earthlings."Earthling: "Wh-who are you...?" A scream is heard offscreen.  Earthling: "...Looks like their habits rubbed off on me."Arumat runs off towards the voice. Now Playing - Roles to Play    Arumat swings his scythe, and the scene ends.  Now Playing - Cosmic Voyagers  "It sure is. And this time...it's a ship you earned through your own abilities." "...I just fell into the captain's chair. Then we met everyone, traveled the universe...Hard to believe it's been two years...Without the Star Calendar, I wasn't even sure how long each portion of our journey was..." "Yeah. I wonder how they're all doing..." "I'm sure they're doing fine." "I hope we can see them again someday..." "We will. I know it. After all, we all live in the same universe, right? It's smaller than it looks. As long as we keep walking, we'll eventually find them. I know Meracle and Sarah live on Roak, and Lymle on Lemuris, but hey, maybe they'll stow away on a ship, and we can arrest the crew for violating the UP3? So..." "And..."  "Of course we will. I'd never leave your side, Edge. Even if you told me to." "Back to the star ocean!"And end scene.  Now Playing - Worlds Yet Unexplored The credits roll.    They show off a bunch of spaceships as they come together. We can see the Calnus, the Aquila, the Sol, and of course En II. Anyway, this is where it'd end...if you didn't meet the requirements for the final two character endings.        "Well, well. Quite a handsome man. Our offspring will certainly be pleased." "...? I'm sorry, but where am I? And who are you?" The sound of the sea drowns out the end of her sentence, although we can make out "will be your". We can assume she means bride, or mate, or what have you. He is the traveller who washed ashore, mentioned in one of Meracle's PAs, whose romance with Eleyna was famous. Poor, poor Crowe. Surviving his heroic sacrifice only to be forced to live on Roak and be shackled to Eleyna for the rest of his life. This of course makes Crowe the ancestor of Roddick Farrence, protagonist of Star Ocean 1. But perhaps even worse than having to shack up with Eleyna, Crowe will also have to live with Meracle for the rest of their lives. And perhaps have visitation from Sarah. The horror. EDIT: Originally had a rant here about how oddly Crowe would fit into an alternate dimension theory about the Feline Gourmand, but it's much easier to just say it was time travel now. But we're not done yet.  "I'm doing good, don't worry. Lutie is teaching me a lot, and I even have lots of students myself...So, you know...I'm really not lonely at all...'kay? Especially with a million billion Eldarians running around, reminding me every day about Faize..."     An ambiguous ending left open to interpretation? No! According to that dev interview I found, they say "Faize’s ending is actually foreshadowed in the beginning. In the “Nothing At All” Private Action (“Suspicious Duo” in the JP), Edge finds Lymle there in Faize’s room while he’s sleeping, looking like she’s about to pull a prank. Just before this in the story, the Black Tribe on Roak shows you the Summoning Symbology. Lymle actually learns the Summoning Symbology at that time, just by watching. She’s a genius, after all. So in the “Nothing At All” Private Action, she is practicing the Summoning Symbology, and after the final battle, when Faize is falling, she uses it then to rescue him." "—It did seem like there was a light or something shining behind Faize’s back in that scene. That was the summoning Symbology being used, then. Iwao: Yes, she warps him out of there. Until you see Faize’s ending, we wanted to give players the impression that Faize had died then." "The area Faize gets warped to is the southern region of Lemuris. Now, Lemuris is divided into northern and southern continents. In the north you’ve got Gaghan and his people. The people of the south have almost no contact with the people in the north, and of course to go between these two continents, you have to cross the ocean. The people in the south have abandoned all technology, so crossing the ocean takes a very long time." This...this is so dumb and arbitrary of an explanation I want to believe that Mitsuo Iwao is trolling. But without any other reason to doubt this, there's a possibility it's completely true. But what I can say without a shadow of a doubt is true...is that tri-Ace thinks that Lymle x Faize is the OTP Seriously though, to unlock Faize's ending, you can't just get high affinity with him. You need to see a series of Private Actions, including the one where he and Lymle accidentally kiss, "Nappy Time" (the one where Faize weirdly watches Lymle sleep next to Edge), all the ones that can only be seen by putting him and Lymle in the same room (which naturally includes the alleged set up for the summoning symbol), and all the ones related to Lymle being sad Faize left. Not to mention this is "Faize's Ending", and it's less about him than Lymle. Dude is just a prize for Lymle being such a smarty pants genius. Anyway, we're finally done with the main game. Join me next time, where we delve into Last Hope's post-game. LJN92 fucked around with this message at 22:38 on May 21, 2023 |
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May 20, 2023 22:56
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I think what baffles me most out of anything is what a... non-thing, the whole Alternate Past Earth sequence was. Did it actually do anything to the greater plot except saddle us with an extremely annoying catgirl?
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May 20, 2023 23:13
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PurpleXVI posted:I think what baffles me most out of anything is what a... non-thing, the whole Alternate Past Earth sequence was. Did it actually do anything to the greater plot except saddle us with an extremely annoying catgirl? Well, it was definitely the main inspiration behind the UP3, as incredibly stupid a thread of logic as that was. As well as Edge's every other breath about how evolution needs to happen "on one's own". Several other games of characters fussing over this particular piece of legislation and it's all because Edge did a fucky wucky and got the exact wrong impression from his experience.
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May 20, 2023 23:37
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You know what the saddest thing is? This is actually a better reasoning for a Prime Directive than the one they came up with for Star Trek Enterprise.
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May 20, 2023 23:49
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I don't remember what they did with the Feline Gourmand story, but did they not say much about Crowe beyond him meeting Eleyna? This is about Star Ocean 2, so did that girl, who you poisoned in the post-game super dungeon, have anything to do with SO1 or this game?
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May 21, 2023 02:38
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Scalding Coffee posted:I don't remember what they did with the Feline Gourmand story, but did they not say much about Crowe beyond him meeting Eleyna? Well, they don't really go into detail about the story, much like they don't go into detail about anything. I suppose it's not really correct to say it's told in "perfect detail", but it is implied that Meracle tells Edge a long rear end story about the "traveler" with whom Eleyna's romance is famous, including adventures in Tatroi and so forth. My point is giving her a specific birthdate raises so many weird questions about the exact nature of the whole Feline Gourmand story that it becomes a convoluted mess just to think about. It would be so incredibly simple if it was time travel, and thus Meracle and Crowe are just part of a stable, if paradoxical timeloop. But without any official clarification on where Meracle came from, I can only sit here and speculate as to what the truth was.
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May 21, 2023 02:50
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LJN92 posted:Well, it was definitely the main inspiration behind the UP3, as incredibly stupid a thread of logic as that was. As well as Edge's every other breath about how evolution needs to happen "on one's own". MightyPretenders posted:You know what the saddest thing is? The Transport Agency is calling it the... UP3. They think that giving it such a short name will be an easier way to remind you of how important it is; we wouldn't want any of our technology falling somewhere like Expel, or Elicoor II, or Faykreed IV, or Aster IV. The UP3...? Eh, it'll never catch on.
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May 21, 2023 03:46
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Crowe my bro. You were definitely the MVP of this game and you still ended up with a fate worse than death. This game really does like to deliver the right kinds of emotional gut punches, for all of the wrong reasons.
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May 21, 2023 05:40
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This game really just had no idea what it wanted to say from start to finish, did it. The plot was written in one long marathon idea-vomit session and then immediately locked up so they couldn't edit it.
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May 21, 2023 09:11
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Anamnesis actually has a note on Meracle's birth date as 'relative, to match the rest of the crew' so it probably doesn't mean anything besides 'this is what it has to be to make her 16'. Not sure why the fandom wiki page doesn't mention this given that they specifically call it out as being weird, but possibly they didn't have the game in front of them and were just cribbing from the jp wiki page that they link.
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May 21, 2023 11:08
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Polsy posted:Anamnesis actually has a note on Meracle's birth date as 'relative, to match the rest of the crew' so it probably doesn't mean anything besides 'this is what it has to be to make her 16'. Not sure why the fandom wiki page doesn't mention this given that they specifically call it out as being weird, but possibly they didn't have the game in front of them and were just cribbing from the jp wiki page that they link. Ah, now that's enlightening. Anywhere I could source this information? Cause that I'm aware of, Anamnesis itself is dead.
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May 21, 2023 11:24
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I would guess that Meracle comes from the future of the main universe, which is why she knows about the book written about her; the wormhole transported the Calnus into the alternate Earth's past, so why couldn't it have transported Meracle back too?
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May 21, 2023 11:36
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LJN92 posted:Anywhere I could source this information? Cause that I'm aware of, Anamnesis itself is dead. If you had the game installed before it shut down it got transformed into a read-only version that just lets you look at character data and the main story, so I'm just checking my own copy. Weirdly there isn't a single google hit for "エッジたちと相対的に合わせた生年月日" and you'd think at least one wiki would have picked that up. Maybe they added it later after people queried it and no wiki people ever went back to update (or it didn't neatly fit on their existing birthday field so they skipped it)
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May 21, 2023 13:02
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They wanted a time loop plot in their story but didn't know how to set it up so the pay off is just confusing. The whole game wants you to take it seriously but they put so little thought into it that as soon as you do, it becomes immensely frustrating, so you have to stop thinking at all.
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May 21, 2023 13:39
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I don't understand why all the Eldarians didn't just go to Earth. If I understand correctly, they were cool bros who gave humanity the warp drive. Instead of giving up all their technology they could hang out on Earth and have things like toilets. It's not like they fought a hellwar against the Cylons or something.
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May 21, 2023 20:23
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Because even in reality Earth is already bursting at the seams with humans and sliding down the slope to becoming an uninhabitable hellworld, without any nearly-apocalyptic nuclear wars to irradiate the surface (according to the game, though that bit in the ending calls exactly how uninhabitable the surface actually is into question). Yeah, it's dumb that the Not-Vulcans were persuaded to give up all their advanced spacefuture technology because a man so colossally stupid he doesn't even know what evolution actually is told their leader(?) that giving tech to their long-lost cousins who were in the middle of their own personal Dark Ages would be bad. But that doesn't mean that Earth could support two intelligent species using up its resources. What about Aeos? Both planets were looking at colonizing it, it seemed perfectly habitable (aside from the giant aggressive bugs that were immune to guns but not swords somehow that showed up exactly once), not already inhabited by a sapient species, and it makes sense for the Eldarians to be given precedence on it due to the whole "our sun blowed up" thing.
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May 21, 2023 20:46
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Polsy posted:If you had the game installed before it shut down it got transformed into a read-only version that just lets you look at character data and the main story, so I'm just checking my own copy. Weirdly there isn't a single google hit for "エッジたちと相対的に合わせた生年月日" and you'd think at least one wiki would have picked that up. Maybe they added it later after people queried it and no wiki people ever went back to update (or it didn't neatly fit on their existing birthday field so they skipped it) Excellent, I've added that screenshot to the post, along with an explanation. On that note, seeing as you have Anamnesis available to you, could I ask you to look up something else if it's not too much trouble? Do you know how and why that one robot character called "Kevin Bachtein" got his name?
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May 21, 2023 22:42
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So whatever happened to the original premise of needing to colonize other planets so the people on the current nearly uninhabitable Earth can be saved? It's pretty awful the Eldarians get poo poo on ten times over by the Missing Procedure and as soon as they do find a place for shelter, decide to abandon all their sweet tech they have because Edge is a self righteous moron, but the heroes get to ignore that lesson and keep their totally bitchin' high tech spacefaring culture. And even then Kenny outright says, "The Eldarians and the Morphus? Who needs them amirite? Our journey comes from the heart!" When they helped out the suffering Earth people god knows how many times to literally stop some cosmic force that was bent on destroying the universe. But sure, just toss that in the trash. Also another note that's definitely related to the above, it's annoying that everybody is accepting Edge's definition of "evil evolution" which always refers to some nebulous standard of technological advancement for undeveloped peoples to the point they'll equate themselves to the Grigori, ignoring that those fuckers didn't just give the Cardianon super tech, they also mutated the poo poo out of them and were outright hellbent on killing everything in the universe. Edge actually refers to Faize being a backstabbing dumbass corrupted by power as part of his argument for the UP3 and I mean if that's his argument, you might as well just go "Technology bad." rear end in a top hat bureaucrats like Shimada will always take advantage of the status quo. Shitenshi fucked around with this message at 23:29 on May 21, 2023 |
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May 21, 2023 23:23
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If anything abandoning technology makes the rule by the strong worse, because a feudal aristocracy monopolizing all the craftsmen is a lot harder to revolt against. As a wise man once said, Mr. Colt made everyone equal.
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May 21, 2023 23:28
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Shitenshi posted:And even then Kenny outright says, "The Eldarians and the Morphus? Who needs them amirite? Our journey comes from the heart!" When they helped out the suffering Earth people god knows how many times to literally stop some cosmic force that was bent on destroying the universe. But sure, just toss that in the trash. Yeah, honestly. If you take Edge's philosophy to its logical extreme, you basically have to leave other civilizations to get blown up in the name of not "evolving" them. That or the Morphus have to carefully crawl out of isolation every time there's a crisis, then take all their technology back real quick when they're done. TheGreatEvilKing posted:If anything abandoning technology makes the rule by the strong worse, because a feudal aristocracy monopolizing all the craftsmen is a lot harder to revolt against. As a wise man once said, Mr. Colt made everyone equal. This is why the fate of Lemuris seems so bad to me. If enough Eldarians land on the planet, even with no technology, they might overwhelm local communities and dominate them. And even if they all act like saints, they might inadvertently cause a huge ecological crisis, and now have no technology with which to correct the damage.
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May 22, 2023 00:39
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Now what are they going to do about the symbology that makes the Eldarians still a fearful force? I guess they stopped caring about Welch in that ending.
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May 22, 2023 01:27
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Commander Keene posted:Because even in reality Earth is already bursting at the seams with humans and sliding down the slope to becoming an uninhabitable hellworld, without any nearly-apocalyptic nuclear wars to irradiate the surface (according to the game, though that bit in the ending calls exactly how uninhabitable the surface actually is into question). Yeah, it's dumb that the Not-Vulcans were persuaded to give up all their advanced spacefuture technology because a man so colossally stupid he doesn't even know what evolution actually is told their leader(?) that giving tech to their long-lost cousins who were in the middle of their own personal Dark Ages would be bad. But that doesn't mean that Earth could support two intelligent species using up its resources. What about Aeos? Both planets were looking at colonizing it, it seemed perfectly habitable (aside from the giant aggressive bugs that were immune to guns but not swords somehow that showed up exactly once), not already inhabited by a sapient species, and it makes sense for the Eldarians to be given precedence on it due to the whole "our sun blowed up" thing. I always got the impression a bunch of the population died off, so if they fixed the planet like in the ending the Eldarians could come and live there too and they could do space mining and whatnot. It also occurs to me that if the Eldarians hadn't shared the warp drive the Calnus would not be in the position it was in to actually fight Space Satan or whatever the gently caress the Missing Procedure was supposed to be.
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May 22, 2023 01:30
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Scalding Coffee posted:I guess they stopped caring about Welch in that ending. Shame, if they just spent two minutes on blowing her up, they would've had us all on board.
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May 22, 2023 01:37
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TheGreatEvilKing posted:I always got the impression a bunch of the population died off, so if they fixed the planet like in the ending the Eldarians could come and live there too and they could do space mining and whatnot.
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May 22, 2023 02:12
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LJN92 posted:On that note, seeing as you have Anamnesis available to you, could I ask you to look up something else if it's not too much trouble? They tie this pretty directly into Last Hope - he describes Klaus/Milla as his "foster parents" and mentions that Klaus once met Bacchus, who your group is aware of because his (cyborg) daughter is also here and points out this alternate Earth was destroyed. The excuse for Kevin existing is alternate Earth wasn't completely destroyed, what was left of it was blown into the Azulite star system by a space-time distortion, which is where you meet him. The parts that survived included the Bachteins' research lab where apparently they were keeping a bunch of children for unspecified experiments and they were able to survive on what was left of Earth in part due to having been genetically reengineered with Reimi's magic gene (I guess it's easy enough to say that happened off-screen) and he's still alive 600 years later due to being basically entirely roboticised. Having said all that I've just realised he didn't actually address his (first) name, specifically, but the conversation went off in an Anamnesis-related direction so I'm not immediately sure if they get back to that. Maybe Milla called him Kevin but I don't know why she would have singled him out if they had a bunch of kids there.
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May 22, 2023 21:34
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Update 39 - Gabe Celeste and the Cave of the Seven Snores "Captain's Log, Space Date...whatever. We have fought our way through the myriad copied monsters of Nox Obscurus and this palace place in the middle of it. We now stand in an ominous corridor, at the end of which the nerve center of Nox Obscurus no doubt awaits us. Time to finish this!" "Actually, Edge, why don't we try looking in that side door first?" "Huh?" "Eleyna always says; interesting things are hidden in side rooms." "Okay, sure, whatever. Maybe there's a secret, ultra-powerful weapon we can kick the big bad's rear end with."Before we go on, I'll briefly mention that now that we have "clear data" saved, were we to go through the Phantom Ambush on Aeos again, we could choose to keep Faize in the party in place of Arumat. It wouldn't affect the story, just our party line up. There's no New Game Plus feature, so if you wanted to play through again, you'd have to start from scratch. The only purpose would be to get completionism trophies with Faize and poo poo. Anyway, another facet of clear data is that a pair of locked rooms in the area just before AOC have opened up. Incidentally, I had never played this segment of the game until now, so I was experiencing everything from here on for the first time.  "All right, what's behind door number one...?" "A dragon? drat it, I can't use that as a weapon! Great, nice going on the suggestion, Sarah!"   Undying Dragon isn't exactly easy, but if you beat SatanFaize, you can beat this thing.  "It dropped something like grampa's ring, 'kay?" "Oh hey, those usually unlock treasures and weapons. I guess it wasn't such a bad idea after all."   "And behind door number two is...a teleporter?" "Oh cool, it teleported us back to the Calnus! That means we can grab some things and then warp back!" "Actually, Mr. Edge, it seems that the transporter cannot take us back. That was a one-way teleportation out of the palace." "....so we'd have to walk all over Nox Obscurus to get back there?" "Yes." "gently caress! That's it, we're going on holiday again!" "B-b-but the Missing Procedure-!" "Screw that, I need a break. Ugh, but where to go...?" "I have an idea!" "Oh, goddammit..." "We can ask Eleyna for an augury!" "What, and go all the way to Roak?" "No, I can just ask her from here..." The augury skill allows you to get comments from Eleyna anywhere, anytime. As demonstrated, a lot of them are silly jokes with no value. The bare minimum use you'll get out of this are hints as to where quest givers are located and some other vague hints to features of the game. You'll probably just use a walkthrough instead. "How...?...Okay, whatever, uh, Eleyna, what's something fun we can do?" "I see a ring of stone and sand...in a dark, dingy corner, awaits a barrier of light..." "I believe she is referring to the Tatroi arena." "But we've already been there!" "Then go again, stripling!" "Okay, I guess this must be our "barrier of light"..." "And the Darkness Ring got rid of it, cool..."  "Second time today I'm trusting a random teleporter, hope it doesn't bite us in the rear end." Now Playing - DIM (Band Remix) "...this place doesn't seem very fun." "It looks so monotone." "Give it a chance. Fight some of the local enemies." Now Playing - For Achieve (Brass Remix) The same theme as the rest of Roak, but I just thought I'd clarify it plays for all the generic encounters here. "Ooookay, so far, all that's different about them is that they seem to have a metallic coat of paint..." "AAAAAAH WHY ARE THEY SO STRONG!?" "These creatures are more powerful than the worst of all Nox Obscurus!" "What the heck is supposed to be fun about this!?" "It's hilarious....watching you all fail!" "All right, that's it, I'm beating this whole evil dungeon just to spite her!"So yeah, Cave of Seven Stars. It's a boring, maze-like dungeon packed with enemies that are far, far beyond what you're used to. Even SatanFaize was easier than some of these assholes. They're not impossible to beat on your first trip, but every fight will be an ordeal. If you want to clear this dungeon, you basically need to abuse Synthesis for all its worth. This means getting the best weapons and armour you can and synthing in poo poo like Sabre-Toothed Tiger Fangs and Red Dragon Scales. The Fangs give +16% Attack on your weapon, and the Scales give +20% Defence on armour. A plain weapon will give you +64% attack and a plain armour will give you +80% defence. Then you can add on accessories with similar skills and see your attack and defence skyrocket. However, I didn't really get into this kind of stuff until after trying out the first boss. Click here to see my fight a post game boss unprepared.  Temple Guardian: "BZZT BZZT BZZT..." "A...malfunctioning robot?" "Oh my, it certainly is big..." "That thing is powerful...very powerful....Here it comes!"Temple Guardian: "BZZZZZZT ZAP!"  Temple Guardian is a pallet swap of the Cave Guardian from that one side quest on Roak, seen in Update 35. Lots of sweeping, AOE attacks await us, as well as one that kills my framerate. This boss is not easy, at least if you approach it without having prepared. Still, I managed to kill it.  And what do our goobers have to say upon defeating it? Nothing. When I did the Seraphic Gate content in Infinite Undiscovery, I remember someone remarking on the fact that I, the LPer, did all the comedic writing for it. Never having played too many Seraphic Gate segments, it gave me the impression they must be pretty goofy. I remember many years ago playing Valkyrie Profile, and its Seraphic Gate had some goofy meta moments, so that's what I was expecting. Last Hope will have SOME of those moments, but...yeah, this awkward silence following a battle will be more common than it bloody well should be. And frankly, even when we get some goofy commentary, I wouldn't be holding your breath for some gut busters. I'm going to guess when people think of funny post game tri-Ace experiences, they're thinking of prior entries.  The boss guards this chest with a key item. We have to take this back to where we started, which will activate an elevator that takes us down to the second level of the dungeon. What does it look like?  The same loving bland rear end maze as the first floor. Yeah, that's what we're in for. Anyway, navigate us another maze, and we find... Click here to see me fight a Super Sentai Bandit Team.    "Blue Eagle Ranger!" "White Eagle Ranger!" "Black Eagle Ranger! On three! One, two..." "Four for one, and one for four! The most fearsome team of ninja bandits in all the land! The Mighty Multi-Colored Bald Eagle Rangers!!!" "Since when did this sort of thing become popular?" "Edge, isn't that Black Eagle? You know, from the colosseum?" "Pah, I'm no Black Eagle! I'm the Black Eagle Ranger!" "Now, if you'll excuse us, ladies and gentlemen, we have a brief announcement." "We of the Multi-Colored Bald Eagle Rangers are always on the lookout for talented new rangers to join our team." "Our main activities include robbing and pillaging, trying out hip new restaurants, and relaxing in hot springs. Experience is preferred, but not required. Oh, and sorry-no internships." "By the way, the Pink Eagle Ranger position is open...perfect for the ladies, I should add. Would you be interested, madam?" "I, uh...me!? I'm sorry, I really couldn't..." "Bah, she's not bald, anyway. Then again, I guess we could just beat the hair off of her!" "...Get out of my sight. Now." "Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahh!!!" This battle pits us against 4 Black Eagle clones, all with buffed abilities. If you tried going up against these guys without preparing, you'd be in for a hell of a time. But as you can see, I have made all my preparations. My attack and defence are buffed and I'm many levels stronger than before. These guys still aren't effortless, but they're far easier than the last boss to beat.  "That's a remarkably villainous-sounding parting line they've got there." "I wouldn't mind joining that team, 'kay?" "No, Lym, it's not okay..."You might be thinking "hey, that was maybe a bit funny and meta, you were wrong about this place, LJN!" But this one was the exception. You'll see. Anyway, we get ourselves another Stone Fragment. On some levels, you'll need multiple of these to proceed, necessitating you futz about the mazes and open just about every chest. On the next floor, we find...  Sahariel 2! Because that's what "Shtayim" actually means in Hebrew. "Hmph. The Grigori we destroyed on the Cardianon mothership, I see." "What's it doing here!?"Sahariel Shtayim: "Bwah hah hah hah..."His" power granted me new life in this place..." ""His" power? Who are you talking about?"Sahariel Shtayim: "Such trivial matters are meaningless, for you will soon be demolished before my might!"  Once again we face Sahariel, and this time is even faster than all the others before it. Nothing has changed, he just has slightly higher HP and other stats.  "....well, he's dead." "...maybe we should speculate as to who resurrected him?" "It's not like we have any leads." "If someone can resurrect people, then they can resurrect Faize, 'kay? Not that I'd want that, because I hate Faize, but we could say mean things to his face..." "Okay, conversation over, let's leave." On the next level, we find the aesthetic has changed! Wowee! But it's still a dull maze we have to navigate to find our way forward. This is one that requires us finding multiple Stone Fragments to activate the next elevator. It also has no boss fight. I probably hate this floor the most, simply because the elevator is in a different place than usual. This means that every time you come back to the Cave, you can only ride the first elevator down to this floor, then need to navigate it to the next elevator, and use that one to reach the others. Tedious.  And wouldn't you know it, on the 5th floor, we find it's the same aesthetic from all the other levels bar the 4th! How exciting! Click here for one of the most overrecycled boss ideas ever.  "There's another me here. She sure is staring at me strangely..." "Pfft...Fakes, I'm sure. Let's see how well they stand up to the real thing." The shadow fakes are not that tough, especially because they're down a fighter compared to us. They will deliver voice lines as though they are the characters in question, so you will hear Shadow Sarah delivering silly girlish squeals as you beat on her.  "...okay, so we just beat a bunch of shadow clones of us, and we have nothing to say about this?" "I dunno, they probably just scanned our bodies with symbology and created dopplegangers, what else is there to say?" "Oh my god, they scanned by body! Those PERVERTS! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA-" "This is why we should AVOID starting conversations."Anyway, next floor, next dull, uninteresting maze, next boss fight...  "It's that creepy fanatic!" "Yes, you may have been victorious in the past...But the dream of resurrecting our great Asmodeus does not die. And now...thanks to "his" power, I can once again make that dream a reality!" ""Him" again..." "Let us begin the festivities! I look forward to hearing your songs of despair and remorse!" Wrathful Tamiel turned out to be one of the harder bosses for me to fight here, if only because he has so many annoying attacks. But still, we beat him. He summons a steady stream of Sydonaist Gammas like in his last battle, but this time they're not quite as useless as the originals.  "Then do it." "Huh?" "Do it now. Resurrect right now. I dare you." "I, uh, no...no, I need to...wash my hair first. Can't go into battle ungroomed..." "What a bitch rear end motherfucker."Anyway, the 6th floor actually has two "boss" encounters...  Custom Newt: "There's no turning back for us...We shall continue to evolve and grow...It is the only choice!" "I've had enough of you two, 'kay?" "Lymle, I don't think we've ever met these two before." "Whatever. All these stinky lizards look the same to me, 'kay?" "Lym, honey, that's a bit racist. Or, um, speciesist?" "Kill all the filthy lizards, 'kay!?" These guys are not interesting.  "That's two more smoked lizard corpses on my path to purifying the universe, 'kay?" "When this is all over, I'm going to recommend that we corral the underdeveloped peoples on their home planets so Lymle can't go on a genocide."Moving on, 7th floor, final miniboss...  "Who is it this time!?" "The Grigori from Lemuris!?"Barachiel Fallen: "Perhaps I was a bit too careless last time. It will not happen again." "You've committed a grave sin...and now you're gonna repent for it!" Another boss that isn't interesting. Nothing new, not a threat, I kill him in roughly two minutes.  "Thanks, Edgie. I feel better now, 'kay?" "Lym..." "That Gregory was made from a lizard too, so that's one more corpse for the pile, 'kay?" "Godammit, Lym..."Anyway, with Barachiel Fallen dead, no more minibosses remain. However, neither is there an obvious way forward. I'll take a brief moment to mention that on the 7th floor is a skill manual called "Duplication". This allows you to make copies of just about every item in the game using Arumat and "Magical Clay". Magical Clay is a fairly common item you can harvest in various places, especially Aeos. You can use this to duplicate materials for suped up post game equipment. Naturally, the moment I got it, I went and started making myself even better super gear. You'll also want a piece of Moonstone found on the 2nd floor of this dungeon, which is the most common ingredient in post game recipes. Some stuff can't be duplicated, and some stuff requires more than 1 Magical Clay to duplicate. As many as 11, I believe, and this game has a limit of 20 of any item.  Anyway, to keep going, what we need to do is take the "Star Dipper", guarded by Barachiel Fallen, and go to every level of the cave, interacting with these weird spots we couldn't do anything with before. These nab us a series of Star items. There is the Star of Reason, Life, Being, Fortune, Justice, Faith and Ruin. Seven Stars, geddit? Anyway, we bring these to a unique room on the 7th floor...  And here we are in the final area of this dungeon.  You'll want to grab this, as it's necessary for more content going forward. It also unlocks a bunch of chests with useful post game stuff. Also in this room is an ultimate skill for Reimi. Click here for tri-Ace's first contractual boss fight.   "Who are you?" "I am called Gabriel Celeste, angel and wanderer of dimensions. Hmm...So many lives ye have trampled to get here. Now that ye have woken me, I trust ye will make it worth my while." "Very well. But understand one thing: we don't fight for entertainment. We fight to protect the future of the universe! Although, we are kind of on holiday right now, and blowing off an actual threat to the universe to be here..." "How long...How many ages it has been since my spear has sung. Come, then, mortals-show me your power!" Now Playing - The Incarnation of Devil (Next Gen Remix) "Ye who seek power, come unto me! I shall embrace ye with unending despair and sorrow!" Gabriel Celeste, staple of Serpahic Gate style post game dungeons, going all the way back to the 90s. This one is fond of electric attacks and wide, sweeping attacks that leave little room to dodge.  Funnily enough, he's actually rather vulnerable to blindsiding, so do that whenever you can.  Rush Combos are your best friend, as this guy has a few million HP you need to whittle down, and as you can see I can do nearly a million with a flawless Rush Combo.  "Ye may possess the form of man...but...your power..." "Well won, brave warriors. Well won. I hope we meet again. Next time, I may be forced to reveal my true power. Farewell, mortals." A rare crafting item, gained only from Gabby himself. And yes, we can fight him again. "But wait, why is this all here? What is your purpose? Why did you resurrect all those things and people we fought before?" "...Purpose? Erm..." "You could have conjured anything in the universe to fight us, but you chose an extremely specific collection of former villains we faced. Why?" "And why didn't you resurrect FAIZE!?" "Good sirs, ye are overthinking this. Tis a tri-Ace game, not a soul put any thought into the plot. Peace out." "...well, at least we're done. So suck it, Eleyna, we beat your nuisance dungeon!" "You're not done." "...what?" "There's an entire other dungeon for you to beat." "Oh..." "And it's ten times more tedious and annoying than this one!" "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO-"Join me next time, where the tedium permeates every fibre of my being. P.S, not only can we come back and fight Gabriel Celeste again, but we can also fight all of the other bosses we fought before too. There is some unique dialogue for the rematch conversations, but none are really interesting. I will go over what Gabe says, however; Gabe Rematch posted:
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May 22, 2023 22:20
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Polsy posted:They tie this pretty directly into Last Hope - he describes Klaus/Milla as his "foster parents" and mentions that Klaus once met Bacchus, who your group is aware of because his (cyborg) daughter is also here and points out this alternate Earth was destroyed. The excuse for Kevin existing is alternate Earth wasn't completely destroyed, what was left of it was blown into the Azulite star system by a space-time distortion, which is where you meet him. The parts that survived included the Bachteins' research lab where apparently they were keeping a bunch of children for unspecified experiments and they were able to survive on what was left of Earth in part due to having been genetically reengineered with Reimi's magic gene (I guess it's easy enough to say that happened off-screen) and he's still alive 600 years later due to being basically entirely roboticised. Well that is nothing like I expected, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised given the story telling in this game. Still, thank you, this will be of use to me.
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May 22, 2023 22:27
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Somewhat disappointed that Gabriel has a maximum number of wings, I had hoped you could continue it into ridiculousness.
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May 22, 2023 22:47
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'Ey, it's good ol' Gabe. Being in every Seraphic Gate means you have to be in the bad ones too, I guess. 
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May 22, 2023 22:48
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Would you call them Seraphic Gate-style dungeons or Cave of Trials/Maze of Tribulations-style dungeons? ...Well, I guess it doesn't matter either way.
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May 23, 2023 00:00
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Well at least they tried to do some meta humor this time around... still even that token effort and a descent version of The Incarnation of Devil doesn't make up for the lack of THE DAMNED POSTGAME DUNGEON MUSIC
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May 23, 2023 00:04
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The bonus dungeon in SO2 sounds more fun than this. I stopped before fighting that dragon. Just didn't have the drive to continue since fights were taking forever to finish.
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May 23, 2023 01:41
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Update 40 - The Wandering Tedium "Alright, Eleyna, where is this super annoying dungeon you want us to challenge?" "You must travel a well trodden road, and speak with a familiar face..." "Hmm...a well trodden road could fit the Old Road to the Sanctuary." "Right, that's where we're headed." Barago: "I had planned to investigate it, but it's a complete unknown. The path is open...but none know what may lie beyond. It'll take a great deal of confidence and courage to even consider challenging the dungeon. Do you want to challenge it nonetheless?"  "You bet." "You're being oddly enthusiastic about this." "I made up my mind to spite Eleyna, what can I say?"Barago: "Well, then, good luck."  Now Playing - Seeker "Bland stone walls, mazelike features...what a surprise." "Why is your preferred method of torturing us to bore us to death?" I wouldn't say it's my preferred method, but it certainly adds a layer to the experience." "Anyway, let's see what the local beasts are like..." Now Playing - Stab the Sword of Justice (Heroic Remix) Yes, it's just the music for the rest of the battles on En II. "All enemies we've seen before, just with different colours." "Why does this happen everywhere we go?" "Well, at least this time they're not magnitudes stronger than we are." "Great, so we're in for billions of nuisance battles rather than actual challenges." "The hell is this?" "Its called a "Nuisance Block". Just touch the glyph and it'll disappear." "You mean you filled the dungeon with these just to waste our time?" "Yeah!"  "Why would I do the bidding of some random piece of rock?" "That's your only way forward, so you better do its bidding." "Oh great, can you at least explain what it wants?" Certainly!" Incidentally, those black corpse things represent all enemies in the dungeon, meaning you never know what type of enemy you're actually going to face. "See all these crystals? Whenever the obelisk asks you to destroy them, you have to scour the ENTIRE floor you're on, and destroy each and every last one of them. They're all colour coded for your convenience. It goes:-Orange for the Fire Ring. -Yellow for the Thunder Ring. -Green for the Earth Ring. -Blue for the Water Ring. -Black for the Darkness Ring. -White for the Light Ring. -And Purple for the Wind Ring." "Why is Wind purple?" "Well we already used green for Earth, and white for Light, so we had to use something." "Wait, but the Light Ring only has one charge, and there's countless crystals!" "I can charge them with my unique skill, 'kay? All I need is a Disintegration Stone." "But it will definitely mean you have to go into your menu frequently to recharge your Light Ring. Every time there's a crystal floor, and every time you find another Light Crystal. And if you ever run out of Disintergration Stones, you'll need to grind for more!" "Oh great, tedium, our favourite." "But it isn't JUST crystals you'll be asked to destroy. There's two other tasks you'll be asked to perform, decided at complete random. One of which is whenever the obelisk says "Defeat our assassins", you'll have to fight wave after wave of enemies." "That doesn't sound that bad." "It doesn't, does it? But it's only there to give you a sliver of hope. Because the OTHER request is when the Obelisks ask you for Geostones!" "...and those are?" "Just little wee key items. They don't do anything other than open the way to the next floor when requested. You can even find them on floors where they're not needed. Either by fighting monsters or opening random chests, you can find Geostones anywhere.The kicker is how rare they are. Without a skill to make the drop rates more fruitful, you might have to spend MULTIPLE HOURS fighting monsters to get a few Geostones. And some of the obelisks may ask you for as many as 18!" "Oh, great..." "And of course, your item drop skills are specific to certain types of monsters, aren't they? You know, the Wandering Dungeon has a lot of Undead and Demon type enemies. How long has it been since you used Lymle and Myuria, by chance...?" "Well, I had to use Myuria a bit to grind for Red Dragon Scales, but Lymle...hasn't been in the party since that alternate dimension Earth..." "Oh dear, so she'll be a MASSIVE liability if you use her in a fight, won't she? But you'll get barely any Geostones if you don't use her...oh dear indeed..." "I have an idea! Why don't we get as many Geostones on a prior floor, to make it easier whenever we encounter a Geostone floor later?" "Well aside from the universal item limit of 20, each obelisk will take all your Geostones when you pay the toll. Even if it only wanted 9, and you have 20, it will take ALL your Geostones." "But that's not fair at all!" "You're free to wuss out of the dungeon any time you want, stripling. There's a teleporter on the start of each floor that will take you to the exit." "Don't worry Edge, we can just keep saving on our way down." "Oh no, there's no save points in the Wandering Dungeon." "What?" "Even if you got 19 floors down, and then lost to something arbitrary, you'd have to do the WHOLE THING over again. And every time you come back in, the floors will be randomized once more. Maybe you'll never see a single Geostone floor...or they'll ALL be Geostone floors! You're completely at the mercy of cruel, cruel fate!" "Dammit! That sounds so boring and annoying!" "The exit is right over there..." "No, screw that! We're completing your stupid hell dungeon, even if it kills EVERY LAST ONE OF US!" "Yeah! Wait-" "Very well then. Something interesting awaits you 20 floors down. But, there's one obelisk request I forgot to mention..."  "And that is...?" "Every second floor, you will need to acquire a Seraphic Doll." "The only way to acquire said Doll is to face a boss on that level." "At this point, boss fights sound WAY better than collecting those godawful Geostones. Let's go, people!"A summary for anyone that doesn't want to parse those italics: -The Wandering Dungeon is a completely randomized dungeon. All the enemies are boring pallet swaps. -Every odd floor will pose you with one of three challenges; fight a series of monster encounters, destroy a bunch of crystals with the elemental rings, or collect an a random amount of "Geostones". -The monsters are pretty easy. The crystals will force you to scour the entire floor, which gets harder as the floors grow in size and room numbers. You must also constantly recharge whatever rings have a low charge count, like the Light Ring and Darkness Ring. -The Geostone floors are the most annoying. Even with a character specific skill that makes certain enemies drop more items, you may have to spend half an hour or more getting the Geostones you need. Without such a skill, or not having the specific one in the party for the battle, you will likely be there for SEVERAL hours. And there can of course be more than one Geostone floor in this dungeon. -Every second floor will make you fight a boss. -The "end" is on floor 20. I think I hate this part of the game the most, mechanically speaking. The plot was certainly more cringe worthy, but the Wandering Dungeon sucked out any little fun I was having and shat it out tri-Ace's rear end. If I had understood the full gravity of this challenge, I may have reconsidered trying to LP this game. Anyway, let's get on with those bosses, which are the sole pieces of unique content in this place.  "Huh? Somehow I don't think the Morphus would go for that...Besides, this looks a lot more formidable than the one we fought in the Sanctuary." "...!!" "You can talk!?"Prehistoric Psynard: "By all means! Now come! Come and eat me if you can!"  The Prehistoric Pysnard is much like its counterparts from the Sanctuary, only with boss level HP. You will probably keep it juggled most of the battle. If you beat Gabe Celeste with any level of comfort, Prehistoric Psynard is a breeze.  "...Hey, he disappeared after we defeated him...That's no fair!" "Too bad, 'kay?"And that's that. Whenever you come back to the Wandering Dungeon, and you WILL have to come back, unless you're so good at this game you beat it all in one go, there will be an alternate conversation upon meeting PP again.  "Meracle...would you give that up already?" "Edge, please. Can't I enjoy at least a little peace?"Prehistoric Psynard: "By all means! Now come! Come and eat me if you can!" Upon its inevitable defeat... "Meoooow!! He disappeared again!" "N-now, now...don't give up yet, Merry!"It will be like this for most of the bosses. I won't detail every alternate conversation, as they're mostly rather banal, but you get the picture. The Prehistoric Psynard is the Floor 2 boss, so let's find out what awaits us on Floor 4...  "It'll turn into a ring, 'kay?" "What kind of ring will it be this time, I wonder?" The only vaguely interesting feature of this encounter is that it comes with two Tyrant Lizard cronies.  "Hmm? It doesn't seem to have dropped anything." "Well, that's no fun..." "What a drag, 'kay?"On subsequent visits, the characters comment on how uninteresting the Guardian Beast is to encounter. It's almost as if the game started to realize how much it was boring everyone. Next up, Floor 6 boss...  I'm actually using someone else's footage for this, as I seem to have lost mine for this dude. I figured it wasn't worth the effort to re-record perhaps the least interesting encounter in the Wandering Dungeon. Legendary Wizard: "Once upon a time, I roamed the land as a good-hearted chimera. But then an evil magician played a dastardly trick on me, and turned me into what you see here." "Um...So, you used to be a chimera, and now you're...?" "Oh dear, that sounds terrible." "So what is it, you want us to put you back to normal?"Legendary Wizard: "Oh, no, I wouldn't dream of it. I just wanted to vent a little...by tearing you to shreds!!"  In battle, the boss is actually a chimera, flanked by two wizards. "And upon his defeat, we have absolutely nothing to say!" "It's like even tri-Ace realized this encounter wasn't interesting enough to make commentary about." "It's weird, 'kay? An entire voiced cutscene was dedicated to me in a sidequest on Roak, but we can't even manage a single line here." "Not even a "Haha, he was a chimera after all." A true microcosm for the state of the post game." "Anyway, on Floor 8, we finally encounter something mildly more interesting than a generic enemy pallet swap boss. But I stress "mildly"..." Imperfect Armaros: "What? You again!? Do you really wish to battle me? I'm stronger than I look!"  The only real difference is more HP, and thus more tedium to defeat.  "So who is-" "Edge, no! tri-Ace chose a later encounter to make us speculate about who "her" is!" "Oh, okay..."Moving on, Floor 10 boss...  Armaros Manifest II. A second encounter with the second iteration of Armaros. Armaros II II, if you will.  "Trick of treat!" "Hrrrm? Well, I do possess a certain rare item, yes...Care to try and take it from me by force?"At this point you get another dialogue choice, but I couldn't be assed recording this specific boss enough times to get every option. "Let's give it a try, then."I lifted this from someone else's video on youtube, so I have no idea if other conversation choices are recorded elsewhere. "Know this: I received it from "her," and I will protect it with my life. You'll have to claw it from my lifeless grasp!"Alternatively... "You're goin' down, punk!" "Well, well. And what is your reason for fighting me?" "You and that ginormous body of yours are in our way." "Hrrrrrrrm!? Hit me where it hurts, why don't you!? You're going to pay for that, boy!!" This boss is a big wake up call compared to the others. Armaros Manifest is still only vulnerable when blinsided, but now it does a stupid amount of damage with every attack. If you are clustered around it when it uses its poison gas attack, you could easily see a whole party wipe even with very well developed characters. I honestly don't know for sure if the dialogue tree affects this battle. I tried looking for information, but no one even seems to mention them. My theory would be saying something to make Armaros Manifest mad makes it hit harder, but it seemed to hit pretty hard even when I tried the less offensive dialogues on a subsequent visit.  "Oh, another awkward silence boss fight, huh?" "I could tell sex jokes to fill the void?" "No, gently caress that." "Cat jokes?" "Hell no." "Airhead jokes?" "No!" "I think we should talk about Faize, 'kay?" "I think this conversation is over."I'll briefly mention that the questions you can ask Armaros Manifest change on subsequent visits. It will even let you try to pick "cancel", but that just makes Armaros mad. Moving on, Floor 12...  "Huh...?"Runaway Dragon: "I'm supposed to be a dragon, ain't I? Revered by mankind as a great holy beast, all that nonsense? But look at me now! I get summoned, I get used as some kind of magic storage container, people slay me for no reason, they use my skin for fancy armor, they drink my blood for some stupid holy ritual...I've hardly got any friends left. It ain't easy bein' a dragon these days." "Huh...sounds pretty tough."Runaway Dragon: "You know what else? Look at me! I'm a huge dragon! All this real estate, and all anyone wants to stab at is my feet! It's like, hello? My head's up here, ya moron! Who attacks people's feet, anyway? If you only knew the pain these shins have suffered through..." "...I'm starting to feel sorry for the guy." "It's not our fault, 'kay? We can't reach all the way up there."Runaway Dragon: "Thanks, little girl. At least you're trying to understand. Anyway, let's get this over with, I ain't got all day. Come and get me, I won't go easy on you, blah blah blah."  After AM II, Runaway Dragon is an absolute breeze.  "Bye, 'kay?" "That one was almost kinda funny, right?" "But ours is a strange game to place such meta comedy in. The Last Hope leans more heavily towards sci-fi than any other Star Ocean game, thus commentary on the role of dragons in fantasy stories is sub optimal here. It would have made more sense in a title like Star Ocean 1, where almost all the game is spent on the medieval planet of Roak, and actual knights are common in the cast..." "Okay, woah, let's not overwhelm the audience with meta commentary, please!" "Oh, yes. Onto the 14th floor boss, then..."   "My name...is Kokabiel Risen." "Famished, huh? Well in that case, I've got somethin' for you to chew on right here!" Same fight, same old story. Unlike AM II, Kokabiel Risen doesn't pose much of a challenge to me.  "Who is this personage that all the Grigori keep referring to...?" "It's got to be Lutie, 'kay?" "Somehow I doubt it, Lym..." "Why did we only choose to question this now?" "tri-Ace only has so much creative energy, I guess."Floor 16...  "I am afraid this is not Mr. Edge at all, Lymle." "I get it, 'kay? They're all lame and fake."Shadow Edge: *Shadowy ellipsis* "Save the chatter for later. They're coming."It's the same poo poo from the Cave of the Seven Stars. Your dude, but more HP.  "Just who were those guys, anyway? And why do we only question these things on the second instance?" "A mystery lost to time." "Do you mean the shadows, or our inconsistent commentary?" "Yes."Floor 18...  "Oh my, it's been quite some time, hasn't it?"Shadow Faize: *Even shadow Faize copies shadow Edge* "Lymle! Sarah! Look out!"One boss fight later...  "Lymle..." "Aren't you concerned about fighting your own shadow, Lym?" "The only thing I care about is Faize. I mean, I only care about HATING Faize, 'kay?" "I have something to say about fighting MY shad-" "Shut the gently caress up, Meracle."Before I move on to the big kahuna, I will address a random encounter we can have in the latter part of the Wandering Dungeon.  Santa, Mercantilean: "It is I, Lord Santa, visitor from space! Nice to meet you!" "S-Santa...? You sure you're not just some crazy cosplayer who made a wrong turn somewhere?"Santa, Mercantilean: "No, no, no! With my mighty beard, my passionate red clothing, and my faithful reindeer companion, who else could I be but Santa himself!? Well, kid? Who?" "Uh...yeah, you got me there."Santa, Mercantilean: "Poh hoh hoh! Wonderful! And it's your lucky day! Because today, Santa has wonderful presents in store for all of you!...At bargain-basement prices, too, I might add! Here, have a look!"  "Santa" was present in the equivalent segment of Star Ocean 3, I believe. His gimmick is he sells overpriced gear of dubious worth. All those weapons he sells give you a massive attack boost, but often debuff you in various other ways, most critically in defence. Some of the weapons can be useful, but most are better substituted for a hand crafted post game weapon. In particular, you might consider getting Arumat the Asura Vajra, as his "best weapon" comes with an earth element that can't hurt the final post boss. One of the better things he sells is that "tri-Emblem" at the bottom. tri-Emblems are powerful accessories that give a variety of status boosts and special effects. If you have enough money, you can buy a bunch of them and use them as the basis for an even better accessory. I'm not going to detail it in full, but there's a joke item called the "tri-Emblum" in tri-Ace games. Usually it's worthless, but in Last Hope it has a high synth limit. You can fuse a bunch of tri-Emblems and other items into it to make a super accessory with perfect elemental resistances and huge attack and defence boosts. And since the tri-Emblum is considered a poo poo tier item, you can duplicate it for 1 Magical Clay and give every character one easy peasy.  Does Edge own a house? If you need money, your best bet is to load up on Fol buffs, go to the Cave of the Seven Stars 6th Floor, find Metal Scumbags, and then keep using "Black Hole Sphere" as Bacchus. It will keep the Scumbags in battle, and they will keep stealing from you while in Rush Mode, and then the Fol boosts will basically add massive interest to the money that was stolen from you in battle. That's how you afford all of Santa's poo poo. Santa, Mercantilean: "What? You think this is expensive? You blithering pumpkinhead! I'm selling this stuff below cost! Cutting my own throat, I am! These prices are the stuff of dreams, I tell you! Dreams! If you don't like it, fine, I'll just take my business elsewhere." (I guess I'd better not complain...)You can also do Shop Orders for Santa. They mostly give gently caress all rewards, but apparently he'll rarely require one of 10 Fermented Sushi. Give him all those and he'll give you a discount. Anyway, onto the big boss, the thing that anyone who's played a tri-Ace game is expecting to be here... Click here for the biggest and hardest boss fight of the game.  "She's beautiful..." "H-how do you know that?" "He should have known better, trapped in that useless husk...Losing to mere children! Hmm...If you've made it this far, I suppose your lust for strength has yet to be sated...Very well. I shall give you your fight. Perhaps at the end of it you will have found the strength you seek. Or perhaps you will simply have learned a very painful lesson!" Now Playing - The Incarnation of Devil (Next Gen Remix) "I shall show you now what it means to command the powers of a God! How unfortunate that the witnessing of that will mean your certain death!" The Ethereal Queen, as much if not more a tri-Ace staple than Gabriel Celeste. She is an absolute bitch of a boss battle. Pictured above is her reaction to you performing a blindside at any time except the moment before her attack. The Queen is very, VERY fond of her wide, sweeping attacks with little room to dodge.  When she's not using an all-range attack, she's using something annoying like this aerial combo. When she's doing this, it's all the harder to hit her during a blindside.  After chewing off enough of her several million HP bar, Ethereal Queen will take a moment to make herself blaze with magical fire. This is a signal that she is about to get ten times more annoying.  Around here is when I tried to emulate a strategy I saw online. The effect on Bacchus is from the "Fainting Potion", which makes a character immune to all damage for 60 seconds, albeit they cannot act. In theory, if you can use one of these on a character while EQ targets them, she will blindly savage them forever, and you can attack her from behind while she does. I completely failed to set up this strategy. It will only work if you try it while she's in Rush Mode, otherwise she'll always end up aggroing back onto whoever's attacking her. Like there's meant to be a specific point in this fight where EQ will just go into PERMANENT RUSH MODE. I thought it was around the time she did the fire thingy, but no. I wasted quite a bit of time and supplies trying to set this up. I wanted to try it because, as I mentioned, if you fail here, you must do all 20 floors of the Wandering Dungeon AGAIN. All the tedious Geostone floors, all the annoying bosses, all of it. I didn't even want to take a chance on that happening.  The scariest thing EQ can do to you is this. Supernova will hit for a ridiculous range, and it WILL kill your dudes. Even if your defence is jacked, it will be hard for your dudes to survive. EQ can easily wipe your party with a single use of this attack. This is why the Fainting Potion strategy is so appealing, because if it works, most of your party can sit safely in the corners, far from EQ's reach. Some people claim the EQ has used Supernova multiple times in a row, to as much as 11. I never saw her do it that much, however. Maybe on higher difficulties?  "That such a thing should come to pass...! Humans transcending the realm of the Gods...it must not be!"In the end, I threw caution to the wind and went about the fight the old fashioned way. And I won. Most forum threads about this warned me not to use Rush Combos. And I can see why, as they leave you up close to EQ, meaning a Supernova could get you. And yet they worked out rather well for me, especially because they interrupt whatever annoying attack EQ has going on. Call it a fluke, call me lucky, remind me I'm on Galaxy difficulty, but I won.  "I suppose there wasn't a reason for all this?" "Yeah, nah." "Until we meet again!" Yet another super post game crafting item. "It's over...we won. We WON! gently caress you, Eleyna! We beat your horror maze! Suck it down!" "Actually, the Ethereal Queen has a 4 and 6 wing form, just like Gabriel, so-" "I SAID! WE! WON! IT'S! OVER! NO! MORE! HELL DUNGEON!" "I think it's about time we went and defeated the Missing Procedure's link, Mr. Edge." "Yeah, you're right. At least it probably can't be stupider than this." "What could possibly be stupider and more annoying than all this!?" "I dunno. Faize being the final boss?" "Or maybe Satan himself?"And so the gameplay of this LP comes to an end. No, I will NOT fight 4 or 6 wing EQ. gently caress that. If you want, you can keep going through the Wandering Dungeon after beating EQ. It will loop with a challenge floor and then make you fight her again, I believe. The Wandering Dungeon doesn't officially end, but the EQ is the end of anything interesting or unique. You can also get some super post game item recipes from Santa Mercantilean and Barago for beating EQ. Join me next time, for the segment where I pour over all the side poo poo I can find of this game. PS: I will however give you a transcript of what EQ says upon subsequent visits: EQ Rematch posted:
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May 24, 2023 20:48
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The Missing Procedure is really nothing compared to this, The Missing Enjoyment.
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May 24, 2023 22:12
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A couple almost-funny bits in there (I sort of like the monster-turned-into-wizard idea, it's too bad they didn't do anything with it) but if that's all you get for slogging through such a poo poo dungeon, oof. I don't blame you at all.
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May 24, 2023 22:49
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LJN92 posted:I wasted quite a bit of time and supplies trying to set this up. I wanted to try it because, as I mentioned, if you fail here, you must do all 20 floors of the Wandering Dungeon AGAIN. All the tedious Geostone floors, all the annoying bosses, all of it. I didn't even want to take a chance on that happening. This is why the only time I actually played to the bottom floor of this I fled rather than fight the Queen and lose my gained levels/items. Of course, I then never went back again, terrible place.
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May 24, 2023 23:08
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I would have used Bloody gear if failure was hours waste of time. I don't know if it existed in this game, but I wouldn't have bothered with this if there were no saves or just sent back to floor 1 with everything you got.
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May 25, 2023 01:18
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Odd Wilson posted:The Missing Procedure is really nothing compared to this, The Missing Enjoyment.
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May 25, 2023 01:25
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Santa is in Star Ocean 2's post-game dungeon as well. But man, I sure am glad I never bothered doing all the post-game stuff in this game.
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May 25, 2023 18:13
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Star Ocean 2 gave you the courtesy of a shortcut once you got far enough in the Cave of Trials, and in the first Valkyrie Profile, you could eventually make a tool which allowed you to skip all on screen encounters, making trips to the Iselia Queen pretty easy. But this one actively combines the hard difficulty of post game dungeons along with sheer mind numbing bullshit. I say it serves tri-Ace right for facing their current hardships.
Shitenshi fucked around with this message at 21:30 on May 25, 2023 |
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May 25, 2023 19:36
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