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Flipgrip posted:how long does it take to make a feedback thread? ctrl+c, ctl+v, just... do it. This is the feedback thread for Traditional Games and The Game Room. You can use this to express concerns or provide any kind of feedback (positive, neutral, negative) about moderation, specific threads, or general posting in here. You're also welcome to PM any of the mods if you don't want your concerns made public - we're happy to repost PMed comments or feedback anonymously if desired. sebmojo will also be around to keep an eye on this thread and chime in as necessary, but feel free to contact them directly as well. The posts in here may sometimes get a bit contentious and tempers may run hot on occasion, but all normal subforum rules still apply. Please remember that at the end of the day, we're all human beings posting about elfgames in various shapes and forms, and we all want to make these forums a better place to do exactly that. Thank you!
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Mar 11, 2023 00:47
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Issue: Podima hasn't watched Alien. Proposed solution: Podima watches Alien.
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Mar 11, 2023 02:49
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Splicer posted:Issue: Podima hasn't watched Alien. Resolution: I'll watch Alien this weekend and report back!
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Mar 11, 2023 03:02
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I'm an IK but I hardly do poo poo because mostly you goons are well behaved. If I should do more random 6ers, let me know. I feel like I have failed a grand tradition.
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Mar 11, 2023 03:32
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dwarf74 posted:I'm an IK but I hardly do poo poo because mostly you goons are well behaved. If I should do more random 6ers, let me know. I feel like I have failed a grand tradition. you could probe me right now if it'd help (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 11, 2023 03:36
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Nea posted:you could probe me right now if it'd help
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Mar 11, 2023 04:49
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Honestly, the Tradgames sector of SA seems pretty peaceful overall, it seems rare that anything needs moderator intervention and I can't ever recall feeling, the times where it has been necessary, that it was either overly harsh or overly forgiving. Even when people post some of the worst opinions I could conceive of, i.e. opinions that disagree with me, it's usually done without any personal attacks or the like.
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Mar 11, 2023 10:27
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The most important thing for me is that this forum is free of endless edition warring and the toxic bullshit of the worst dregs of the RPG community, and on both of those the mod and IK team are doing a good job imo
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Mar 11, 2023 13:02
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I have no complaints about the current state of the forum, but I think it would be fun to bring back some of the themed design contests.
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Mar 11, 2023 19:11
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Capfalcon posted:I have no complaints about the current state of the forum, but I think it would be fun to bring back some of the themed design contests. Is this the game-creation threads? I have this sense that they died off due to low participation but I wasn't paying a lot of attention at the time so that may be wildly wrong. I think TG activities are a good idea. I suggested last year that the magic thread could have a tournament, for example, and that got some positive responses.
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Mar 11, 2023 22:45
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Tarnop posted:this forum is free of endless edition warring
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Mar 11, 2023 23:16
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Well, goons have Strong Opinions, so edition warring does indeed happen. I don't think it's possible (or even desirable) to stop it administratively. Folks are just gonna argue that the perfect and beautiful thing they like is better than the baby garbage you like. We do try to keep it from getting weird and lovely, though. We'll stomp out the particularly stupid bullshit. And if it gets altogether too weird/personal/unfunny/unaccountably angry/toxic, report it if we haven't caught it yet.
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Mar 11, 2023 23:24
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mellonbread posted:IDK which threads you use but the Trad Games Chat is regularly flooded with 4e grogs incensed that someone said a mean thing about their favorite version of d20 fantasy I read and post in that thread and I haven't found it to be a problem but then I like 4E so that might colour my opinion of those conversations. But, importantly (for me anyway), people talk about lots of other things and when it does happen it doesn't feel nasty like it gets elsewhere. That's the difference for me between an edition war post and a spirited defense of a thing someone likes
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Mar 11, 2023 23:33
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Issue: The phrase "Edition War" has lost all meaning. Urgency: Low Impact: Medium Overall priority: 4
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Mar 12, 2023 14:11
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Splicer posted:Issue: Podima hasn't watched Alien. I watched Alien last night! Good movie even if I was shouting a bit at the screen with how dumb everyone was, it did a real good job with the creeping dread. I'm glad the cat made it through ok though, that's all that mattered.
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Mar 12, 2023 15:31
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Podima posted:I'm glad the cat made it through ok though, that's all that mattered. 
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Mar 13, 2023 04:58
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Man your av is just the best for real, it makes me so happy to see.
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Mar 13, 2023 05:07
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I regret to inform this thread that new information has come to light. Podima failed to watch Aliens after viewing Alien.
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Mar 13, 2023 07:31
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I believe in podima and their ability to view aliens after alien even though it hasn't happened yet
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Mar 13, 2023 22:20
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paper bag with a face posted:I regret to inform this thread that new information has come to light. Yep, Aliens is 100% mandatory, now that Podima has taken the bait and viewed Alien.  The good news though, is that you can stop after that! No need to even glance at any of the following movies, which don't actually exist because I've erased them from my memory
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Mar 14, 2023 03:46
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I will admit that the digressions into The Killing of D&D 4e by the Coward Paizo/Mike Mearls whenever that edition of d&d comes up are a bit annoying, but if people really want to post like that, it's not a thing to bother with in moderation.
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Mar 14, 2023 14:32
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The Persecution and Assassination of Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition as Performed by the Freelancers of the Coast of the Wizards Under the Direction of the Marquis de Mearls
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Mar 14, 2023 14:44
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Halloween Jack posted:The Persecution and Assassination of Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition as Performed by the Freelancers of the Coast of the Wizards Under the Direction of the Marquis de Mearls
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Mar 14, 2023 15:01
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Moderation is good. I have no complaints. I’m posting this because I’m bored at work but I mean it.
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Mar 14, 2023 16:00
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I do think as mods we can have a little backroom convo about exactly how much to let D&D 4e rehashing run, outside the 4e-dedicated thread. People want to be allowed to talk, but the conversation can take over threads, so some sort of middle ground seems appropriate.
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Mar 14, 2023 17:06
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Yeah, it's been discussed in the past and will be discussed more in the future, probably! I confess I lean towards the "kinda tired of this" side, but it's obviously a topic that a lot of people here still want to discuss in depth, and I don't want to dismiss that out of hand.
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Mar 14, 2023 21:45
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Leperflesh posted:I do think as mods we can have a little backroom convo about exactly how much to let D&D 4e rehashing run, outside the 4e-dedicated thread. People want to be allowed to talk, but the conversation can take over threads, so some sort of middle ground seems appropriate. For the love of god, yes. Ubiquitous 4e chat is repetitious and tedious, mostly devoid of new insights, and drowns out everything else in a given thread when it springs up for pages at a time. There's a dedicated 4e thread where "discussion in depth" can happen to everyone's heart's content, but the forum culture has calcified in such a way that the Chat and Industry threads are also 4e threads a decent chunk of the time. You've previously made your opinion clear on being okay with that, but since there's a feedback thread now, here's some feedback: TradGames has a bizarre double-standard with 4e because it has extremely vocal enthusiasts with a persecution complex. No other game gets treated this way, and it's worth doing some soul-searching about why that is.
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Mar 15, 2023 02:19
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Kestral posted:double-standard
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Mar 15, 2023 02:29
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Kestral posted:You've previously made your opinion clear on being okay with that My opinion is that when I tried to slam it down before, the overwhelming response was that when nothing else is happening in the Industry thread anyway, I should just let it go, so I softened on that a lot and my stance now is to let it run for a couple of pages and then step in and make gentle suggestions. However, this is a good thread to talk about whether my stance is good or not. And of course Podima, Antivehicular, and our IKs may also have moderately different stances or preference on this so I'm speaking for myself. I am also not a totally neutral party here, although I'm trying hard to be.
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Mar 15, 2023 05:02
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Leperflesh posted:My opinion is that when I tried to slam it down before, the overwhelming response was that when nothing else is happening in the Industry thread anyway, I should just let it go, so I softened on that a lot and my stance now is to let it run for a couple of pages and then step in and make gentle suggestions. However, this is a good thread to talk about whether my stance is good or not. As one of the D&D History Talk likers, yeah, it's not great that some posters join in just to be mad about a dead game. On the other hand, goons seem to think getting mad about games is morally good in general. I feel like people have been mellowing out and it's a trend I hope continues, but I dunno how to cultivate that. I'm glad that F&F is seeing more reviews of games that do neat things, or are historically significant.
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Mar 15, 2023 09:09
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I think quarantining ai images and discussions to the threads specifically for using them would have a net benefit of making it so we don't rehash the same arguments every time in good threads and making the ai images threads worse so the people really invested in ai image generation have a worse forums experience.
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Mar 15, 2023 13:31
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Siivola posted:There's a pretty wide grey area between slamming down and gentle suggestions, and I think y'all should explore it more. I'm happy to keep a closer eye on this with the others, I really didn't notice 4e chat being that prevalent (and wasn't reading closely/modding during the times when this was a hot topic initially) but it's clear from the feedback it's worth looking more into. Here's my ask - if you're reading a thread and feel like a 4e digression is getting out of hand, please toss us a report (best so all mods see it) or PM an IK if they're actively in that thread already. LF and I agree that a few posts doesn't a meaningful disruption make, but we can be more active about redirecting conversations if it's warranted. Ominous Jazz posted:I think quarantining ai images and discussions to the threads specifically for using them would have a net benefit of making it so we don't rehash the same arguments every time in good threads and making the ai images threads worse so the people really invested in ai image generation have a worse forums experience. This is a tricky one, since for example Pelgrane using AI images is a valid topic for industry chat (I think that's where I read it last night), and same for Paizo's company statement to the contrary earlier in the month so a total quarantine doesn't make sense. I definitely agree it's exhausting to see the same AI art discourse again and again tho and there are other places for that, if you can toss us a report when this crops up it's easy enough to help redirect.
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Mar 15, 2023 14:06
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But it would make me happy 
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Mar 15, 2023 14:08
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Leperflesh posted:My opinion is that when I tried to slam it down before, the overwhelming response was that when nothing else is happening in the Industry thread anyway, I should just let it go, so I softened on that a lot and my stance now is to let it run for a couple of pages and then step in and make gentle suggestions. Although I have mostly perfected my Hide In Shadows roll at this stage in my posting career, I'll just say that when I've seen this argument advanced elsewhere on SA - 'there's nothing much relevant to <thread topic> happening right now, so why can't we post whatever?' - the response was usually that it's ok for there not to be posts in a thread for a little while. I'm almost entirely disinterested in the relative merits of different editions of D&D, but it is notable here how easily discussions get redirected into 'but wasn't 4e great' and/or 'isn't it awful what happened to 4e' and how long those digressions seem to go on.
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Mar 15, 2023 16:32
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Well, there's a reason "edition warring" is such a longstanding phrase in TG circles. I recognize that SA's TG forum has a special relationship with 4e, in that it was one of the few places at the time that was largely positive and there was a sustained period where there were lots of 4e PbP games going on. TG mods will always have to pay attention to edition war issues. I remember a time when threads in TG were much more aggressively moderated to stay on topic. I felt at the time it was a bit too harsh. That might color how I look at things now. TG was more active back then, though, and the push to force on-topicness wasn't only in TG, it was sitewide: the apocalyptic GBS 2.0 incident when megathreads were crushed or booted was part of that philosophy, that having two dozen community chat rooms clogging up the first page of forums was bad. The industry thread has a community. It's got a ton of overlap with the chat thread, but not 100%. It's hard to blame a community for wanting to chat with each other. But the industry thread is also a sort of low-level newsfeed for people interested in trad games news, and having your newsfeed clogged with offtopic chat is annoying. I don't know if there's a way to totally resolve that tension but we can try to find a compromise. e. we also maybe just have a topic issue: we have a 4e thread, which gets very low traffic and is mostly for/about people who still play 4e. And we have a 5e thread, which gets more traffic, and is mostly for/about people who play or want to play 5e. What we do not have is a general D&D thread, for people to go who want to endlessly compare and contrast all editions of D&D in a constructive and calm way that totally isn't just endless edition warring. When I've suggested having a thread like that in the past, people seemed pretty convinced that it'd just be endless edition warring, and therefor bad. But the result is that people who still actually want to compare and contrast editions of D&D don't have an obvious place to do that, and so it winds up in industries, chat, and sometimes 5e threads, and lately also in the D&D Next thread. Should mods crush this line of conversation, or create a space for it, or let it go for a bit in whatever thread it crops up in? Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 19:10 on Mar 15, 2023 |
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Mar 15, 2023 19:07
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The reason this happens with 4e and no other game is because no other game has ever had such a wide variety of weird made-up nonsense said about it that is still getting pushed decades later. Most of the derails happen because someone comes into a thread and drops one of the many anti-4e edition war talking points, and then people correct them.
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Mar 15, 2023 19:09
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Tsilkani posted:The reason this happens with 4e and no other game is because no other game has ever had such a wide variety of weird made-up nonsense said about it that is still getting pushed decades later. Most of the derails happen because someone comes into a thread and drops one of the many anti-4e edition war talking points, and then people correct them. I think more than this, I've been inclined to suggest that the 4E edition wars and its knock on effects have been pretty influential to the contemporary state of the elfgame hobby, ranging from the rise of Pathfinder to the curated approach taken to D&D 5E to the recent uptick in indie RPGs hearkening back to 4E now that enough time has passed to where you can discuss its strengths without being drowned out by weird "it's just an MMO on paper" rhetoric. That said, I can see the immediate counterargument to this which is every edition of D&D has an outsized influence on the hobby by virtue of being D&D.
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Mar 15, 2023 21:53
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My issue with the "weird anti-4e rhetoric" chat is that, when it discusses the opinions of players and not industry figures, it hews very close to saying "your personal reasons for disliking this thing I like are invalid and stupid," which is just unpleasant and corrosive to community. I feel like current Tradgames posting is mostly good about not doing the badwrongfun/"everyone whose game or edition preferences don't match mine is an idiot with a bad brain" poo poo that infests most Internet game-discussion spaces, and as a mod I really want it to stay that way, so I don't want 4e chat to even gesture at the idea.
Antivehicular fucked around with this message at 22:21 on Mar 15, 2023 |
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Mar 15, 2023 22:19
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Leperflesh posted:Should mods crush this line of conversation, or create a space for it, or let it go for a bit in whatever thread it crops up in? If we're playing gently caress/marry/kill on the styles of shitposting, why don't you explain the logic behind letting the MtG thread regularly gatekeep and otherwise generate hostility by doing things like telling Commander players to "go back to the Commander Containment Thread" or repeatedly and incessantly telling everyone how much Commander is ruining MtG every time it's even tangentially mentioned? For those following along at home, Commander is the single most popular format for magic, and is branded both as a casual format and an on-ramp for new players, so whenever a new player wants to talk about the cool new thing they found, only to see the MtG thread be abundantly hostile, it's basically the equivalent of edition warring. This has brought to your attention repeatedly, and you just continue to ignore it, or worse, drop a wall of text and no probes, so it continues to happen, regularly. If D&D Edition Warring is so critical to the moderation here that it's taken up most of this feedback thread, despite having a tiny fraction of the traffic of the MtG threads, why don't we ever get any traction on this?
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Mar 15, 2023 23:04
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Capfalcon posted:I think it would be fun to bring back some of the themed design contests.
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Mar 15, 2023 23:54
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