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No Guys Its Totally Different And Stuff I Swear Welcome back! Last time on Tower of Time we fought a random ghost who attacked the player's will to keep playing. Today, we're going to make it to floor seven and maybe something interesting will happen.  Then again, maybe not.  This guy has a whole bunch of lore about how he's secretly stalking your party through the darkness or whatever. Of COURSE he has the ability to reflect damage, because this is Tower of Time and the developers wanted to make it as tedious as possible.  I really don't get how he's hunting our champions relentlessly if all he's doing is standing around, metaphorical dick in hand. Whatever!  Team Shooty assembles into their patented firing line formation and ends his incoherent life forever.  The POWAH!  That's OK game. I never thought I'd be saying that fighting the killer robots of the ancient world was boring, but here we are.  I just realized the elves somehow invented enchanting before the aliens introduced magic to the world. I don't even know.  All of the contaminated materials we needed to shut down the power plant can be found behind the Mana Guard.  A bunch of robots attack and trap people in cages. It's super boring!  Oh, I guess Kaela's mini-titan got refluffed as an enemy, huh? Fun fact, the Titan is on the library image for the game on Steam.  The only real noteworthy thing about this fight is that Mech is a valid target for the cages, which is hilarious because he does like no damage.  The worst part about these fights is that there's enough micro you can't set them to fast forward, but not enough that you have enough poo poo to do.  Grind! Grind! Grind! Grind!  We got a fetch quest for this a few updates back.  : Master Smith, now this hammer should be enough to break this mana crystal. If you have the strength to do it. : Isn't Bigs better suited to this task? : Aye lassie, ma hand is strong but cannot compare with our friend frojae here.TheGreatEvilKing posted:
 ...what?  Oh man, it's the mysterious DAEVA! Are you ready to meet the DAEVA????  Wow. I am underwhelmed, as always.  : More machines? Though the[sic] stand rigid, as if carved in stone.: Come, Son of Rogheim. Let's take a closer look. The rest of you, stay back and be ready.The formal Son of X title clashes with the contraction. The sheer amount of loving robots we're expected to distinguish between clashes with my desire to keep playing this game. : Ah'l watch your back, ma Lady.: How valiant, Master Dwarf, and sincerely appreciated.... but I think your expertise in the machine arts will prove more valuable than your martial training here.This really should be the equivalent of asking Galen to cure AIDS. Galen is a smart dude, but without the germ theory of disease or any kind of knowledge of viruses I have no idea how the hell he's supposed to get anywhere with a disease that happened after his time.   "Fortunately" racial stereotyping is here to save the day! Or Kaela's just hitting on him in an awkward and racist way.  : Oh the runeguard is just being modest, he knows very well his knowledge of machines and clockwork far outweighs the rest of ours combined. Go with her and make sure the things are turned off!When I want to check a silicon chip, I turn to my local watchmaker. I'm glad no one thought to ask Whisper, who knows a surprising amount about electrical technology for a mage living in the Dark Ages. : Aye, I'll do ma best. : Don't take any risks, your Grace. If the Avatar has anything to do with them, they will surely be hostile. : What do you think, Rakhem? I. Do. Not. Care. We've nearly exhausted all the dev's creativity and we have four or five floors to go! : I see. Do you recognize the metal they're made of? And of COURSE the legendary material is the material from Dungeons and Dragons. : You are familiar with that metal?: Nay, na as familiar as ah'd like. But how do ye know of it, ma Lady?: It was fairly common during my time... we used it for specialized machine parts and weapons.: Ah knew it. The legends are true... and ah know it's here, somewhere in this tower, ah can feel it in ma bones. If this is it, maybe I...: I'm afraid, Son of Rogheim, this is not the metal you seek... Though it is certainly impressive, it most likely [sic] an alloy of some exotic elements... something I've never seen before. I don't think they originate from the tower. (placing her hand gently against one) Do you feel that? A slight vibration...: Watch out, ma Lady!  We get an unskippable cutscene of the robots moving their heads...  Man they really don't trust the player huh. : It attacks! : Kaela raises her mechanical arm, snatching the dwarf's axe midswing. Rakhem's hands almost slip completely from his weapon. Thrown off balance by the sudden and surprisingly strong motion, the dwarf grunts and staggers to catch his balance.: Wait, Son of Rogheim. It's not attacking... I think, it is trying to communicate with us. Some sort of telepathy.  Earlier in the game posted:
You know, most of the time even loving Tides of Numenera was good enough to just present what it thought was mystifying paradoxical nonsense and not constantly poo poo up with "Wow! What a paradox! Isn't this mysterious, player?"  This game seems like it was written by stupid people who wanted to feel smart and let other stupid people feel smart. "Wow, you recognized basic sci fi tropes. You must be really well read in the nerd poo poo, unlike these generic fantasy characters".  : I don't hear anything either.This loving game actually makes me miss Numenera. I said it. I will maintain that Numenera was overly pretentious crap obsessed with trolleys, but that is still a deeper experience than whatever the gently caress this is. : I sense nothing.: Suddenly the leading machine raises an arm and swipes in Kaela's direction. The young woman jumps back, narrowly avoiding its clamping metal claws.A hostile robot? In this economy? : A ruse to lower our defenses! Thanks, rear end in a top hat! : To their side!: Ah told ye, ma Lady. Never doubt a dwarf when it comes to a fight.TheGreatEvilKing summary posted:
 It's another boring battle!  I try to fast forward it and get everyone killed.  I haven't talked about characters' command barks, but I really should. Nothing reaches the heights of the legendary "A beer. Would be nice. Thank you." but there's some hilarious and cringey poo poo. Whisper goes "Death. To the Weak" whenever you give her an attack order, Kaela is clearly sick of your poo poo ("Can I help you?"), Aeric has the best otaku Elvish I've ever heard, and all of Kane's lines are weirdly singsong.  That said, there is nothing interesting or noteworthy about this battle so we will skip on ahead.  No one cares. : Indeed. I could see their life spark. I believe, they would be the true Daeva: beings of pure energy.So the little we know about energy beings is that becoming one gives you a hunger for energy that drives you nuts to devour the world. Is no one worried about this? No, because they're all freely casting magic despite that being the way to open the path to the Organthe. It's bizarre how little this metaplot ties together.  : When you told me about those portals to other worlds, I thought you were surely mistaken, tricked somehow, as it is a physical impossibility to move from one world to another in the span of a single step. Now I see I was the one who was mistaken. Those creatures were definitely not native to Artara. I'm sorry for not believing you.But... the Organthe did it, and the game implies Kaela was running around during the Organthe war.  : K, what are you doing? It's already dead.: Testing a theory. Our physical weapons are very ineffective against this metal. : More like - useless. All your bravado and martial skills, ha! Now you are like a child with a stick.: That's a fine thing to say to the leader of our party? Look, game, I don't care about this. You've all been bickering endlessly about pointless crap like this and we all know by now you don't have the balls to do something like make the characters kill each other or leave the party. Second, you had a whole plot beat on the fourth floor where they all swore to work together and used their brains to actually resolve this. And almost, character development posted:
This scene, naturally, meant nothing. : Why, ah'll show you less effective steel.: (a booming shout) Enough!: Why are you so quick to react with anger, Jarl Dwarf? And why does the Shadow Queen provoke him so? Our task relies on our common cooperation, does it not?: Kane moves between the two, pushing Rakhem's axe to a non-threatening position. : Then lead on, Shieldguard... if you're able.: Aye, laddie. Ah think this tower is getting to us.TheGreatEvilKing summary posted:
Even loving Numenera had it so that the party members who hated each other wouldn't travel together. Heck, even Black Geyser had that if you were unfortunately enough to finish the magic hat quest.  This code lets us shut down the last processor.  We can now go shut down all the purification machines by stuffing them with the random crap we found.  First, however, there's the matter of the obsidian hammer. : Doesn't it surprise you that this single crystal has been sitting here for so long? It looks quite suspicious to me.: Girl, even if you are right and it is a trap, I care not. This crystal contains raw mana, as it has been thousand years ago. [sic] I shall not pass such an opportunity to learn about the origins of magic.We... we know the origins! We literally all saw the visions of aliens! God drat it, it's another shoehorned in moral choice.  Who? Who is in this tower? That totally not suspicious librarian dude? Sleath? : Now that Maeve pointed it out, yes, it does look suspicious that this crystal was not processed. We should be careful here.: What if this magic in its old raw form is dangerous? Maybe our bodies changed so much that we can no longer absorb it? I say we leave it be. Welp.  What a meaningful decision. I'm going to need a vote from everyone to proceed. Votes that have a real rationale will count double. SIKE! We're not doing ANY of that poo poo. I'm just going to let the party decide because I do not give a flying gently caress about this choice! I do want to bring the big crystal pile to your attention. Remember it for later.  : Let party decide. I don't even know why Boron cares because he's the only guy who can't use mana. : You decide to leave this decision up to your champions, as they will have to face the consequences of their decision. After a short discussion they all agree to levae the crystal alone, as the danger is too great.: We should somehow dispose of this thing, before someone else stumbles on it.: Agreed. Now, what can we do with it here? Hide it at the bottom of the pile again?: No. What has been found once, can be found again. Hand it to me. I will take care of it. I guess picking up the crystal doesn't set off the bomb or whatever. TheGreatEvilKing summary posted:
 So here's the thing with these machines. You get the same menu of crap to put in.  One of these shuts down the machine and the other two spit out a failure message.  I think the color is supposed to matter but there are no consequences for failure so you just mash your way through until they're all shut down.  I will cut out the other two exciting dialog mashing stations and take us back on the way to the main plot.  Unfortunately we need to backtrack to that stupid gently caress Faradas instead of just going on our way.  Have I mentioned I hate this character? I do. I hate this character.  We can now go into the mana sphere which I could swear I've seen in another game, and also more of the crystals. Keep an eye on them.  : Does it mean something to you?: Some of the names are familiar... I know. I know them, but I just can't connect them to anything - no specific faces or memories. It's as if my entire life is shrouded in an impenetrable cloud of smoke.: I just don't understand why I can't remember who they were, yet I can operate these machine panels without a second thought...: There was a dwarven healer in my kingdom, who spoke that our minds are complex machines of their own. Each part, responsible for different types of thought. Perhaps the sleep machine ye were in, only affected certain parts of yer mind? : (mumbling) I know some people who would kill to forget their past.TheGreatEvilKing summary posted:
 What do you want me to say. This is dull as poo poo.  This is just lying around. I'm sure there's some super duper Whisper build where you go all in on her attack steroid and just leave her on autoattack mode, but the rest of us like casting meteor.  You might think all the poo poo with Tower Avatar showing up and turning red would cause her to be the boss of this floor. You'd be loving WRONG! The boss fight is this boring grindfest of robots we've seen before.  There are five portals and five defense towers. Despite the game telling us to prepare for a difficult fight Team Shooty just kinda goes through their standard rotation and it's not threatening in the slightest.  Those are the straightest lightning bolts I've ever seen.  Rewards are poo poo.  The procgen purple chest behind the gang is equally as boring.  I decide not to finish this quest.  This is different. No stairs!  Yeah, game, your sidequests are boring. Onwards!  Insert repetitive commentary about equally repetitive dialog. : I wonder what they were stockpiling in all these containers?: Rakhem quickly leans over an open container, practically falling inside. He then rushes to another, crouching beside it, peering up into it through a gaping hole at its side.: Empty, the whole lot of em ah reckon.: Some kind of mana storage containers.: Are you certain?: Indeed, I can sense the residual magical energy... There is no question.: They must have had enough magic to rebuild half of Artara stored here.: I wonder what happened to it all?TheGreatEvilKing summary posted:
Huh, wonder what happened there. I must have gotten my generic fantasy confused. Well, no time to change it now. Onward.  The game actually attempts to do something interesting here. Let's see if it succeeds.   I swap in Kane over Whisper because he gives us +8 armor.  We get rushed by a bunch of robots. It's boring and lovely.    The game is throwing uniques at us suddenly.   Yeah, this isn't the last of Sleath. Remember him? He opened a bunch of portals trying to make a multiversal empire or some poo poo? We will be getting... a resolution. Eventually.  This could almost be interesting.  Game has more uniques to throw at us first.  : It looks like there was some kind of explosion here.: More than one, laddie. One explosion couldn't take out all these bridges...: Does this mean we have to go back?: Not necessarily, Low-born... not all bridges are physical in nature. Look there. : Odd. I sense no magical essence here. You just WENT through a portal! It looked very similar! This is not impressive! Stop doing this! : Regardless, it is indeed a gateway... the only question is, do we have the courage to travel through it? We've gone through so many teleporters and portals and other magic bullshit I don't know why this is supposed to be different. I think the game wants us to know this is somehow more alien than the teleporters or the Sleath portals we looked through or the whatever, but like everything else in this game it falls flat on its face.  : I'll go first. If it is a trap, then let it spring on me alone. If it safe, I will send a signal.: The shieldguard glances to Maeve who opens her mouth to say something, but hesitates. In the slight pause, Kane turns and steps through the blackness. He vanishes as if slipping behind a heavy curtain. Despite Kane saying all that poo poo about a signal everyone goes through the portal to... an alien dimension?  Not this poo poo again! The idea of going to a completely weird and alien place sounds cool but we are seven levels into the game. The player is jaded by now because everything new is accompanied by these characters interjecting about how amazing and unique everything is. The Very Beginning of the Game posted:: Where in Artara are we!?: Clearly, we are not in Artara anymore. We are... somewhere else.Take another look at the alien dimension. It's the same loving mana crystals with a new texture. Those weird blue outlined squares on all the passages aren't animated or anything, There's a bunch of poo poo floating in the background, but there's always a bunch of crap. Yes, it has the blue-white-black color palette, but nothing here is very new or interesting and it takes a LOT to shock the RPG veterans this game was supposedly intended for. : But--: Does it really matter, lassie? As long as this light underfoot stays solid enough. Man, an alien machine, just like every other loving floor in this game!  : More likely structural piping to transfer power or waste... What a creative answer that hasn't been done to death in genre media. : Your champions move away from the oddity and quickly return to their quest. This is all down the same hallway (so all this crap is going to get one summary). : Absolutely astonishing. What absolute power the creators of this place must wield... The secrets they must learn, watching through such lofty a window.: This does not feel right to me. We - we should not be here. We must retrace our steps and find another way.: Kane backsteps toward the portal, his eyes darting from side to side in frantic tempo.: K, what's wrong?: W-we do not belong here. We need to get out of here while we still can.: Leave!? We just got here... how could you possibly pass up the opportunity to leave a place like this? I could spend the rest of my days here. As if this place were truly... home.: We can't leave now, my Lord is counting on us. We have pledged our honor and loyalty and to turn back now would disgrace our names.  : I grow tired of these cat and mouse games. If any enemy lies in wait here, let them show their face.: What... What's going on with all of you? : It is during these strong emotions you feel the thoughts and senses of your champions slip from you. You can still sense them, but they arrive broken, disjointed, no longer complete and consistent. Worse still, their thoughts and emotions seem totally out of character.I have no idea how the player is supposed to know this because these guys don't have deep characters. : It is an unnerving feeling and the more you try to regain your connection, the less effective it seems to be. As you struggle to get your bearings, a horrifying thought crosses your mind: Is it possible losing control of your champions now will sever your connection with them permanently?: Can you afford to take such a risk?Game, you have literally shown us that there are no consequences for any of these choices. : Perhaps, if you focus all your strength, you can impose your will on the party and purge them of the unstable influence. Or perhaps, the only way to regain complete control, is to distance yourself from the party completely and let the situation run its course. Vote on this poo poo, I guess.
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Jul 21, 2023 21:47
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Distance ourselves from the party. Distance ourselves as far away as possible from them, run for it.
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Jul 21, 2023 21:53
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Distance yourself from the party. This strikes me as the sort of event that is meant to look like a weird one-off but actually ends up determining your ending or something. If you take full control of the party then you're actually just as evil as something something I don't loving know anymore. At this point I'm making all my decisions on pure metagaming anyway.
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Jul 21, 2023 23:08
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Distance yourself. Please, please please please sever our connection permanently.
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Jul 21, 2023 23:28
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LJN92 posted:Distance yourself. 
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Jul 22, 2023 04:48
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LJN92 posted:Distance yourself.
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Jul 22, 2023 07:38
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But see how their 1D characters have flipped! Duty man wants to turn and abandon his duty. McRobot-toucher wants to quit before learning everything. Big reasonable blue man just wants to smash. Serious elf is silly. Xenophobe racial superiority lady wants to give up her home and move in. Such deep and meaningful changes in their motivations! Clearly we must allow their character development to continue (let them decide).
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Jul 22, 2023 10:22
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LJN92 posted:Distance yourself.
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Jul 22, 2023 13:41
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Take off and distance ourselves from orbit. It's the only way to be sure. ... wait, "Distance ourselves" is a euphemism for "Nuke them all", right?
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Jul 22, 2023 20:56
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One can only hope.
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Jul 22, 2023 21:02
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Distance yourself. Is this even a question?
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Jul 22, 2023 21:31
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Yea, everyone voted to abandon the party so we're doing that. We'll have a more interesting vote next update.
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Jul 22, 2023 23:14
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It's Judgin Time! Welcome back! Last time on Tower of TIme we went to an alien dimension that looked like it suspiciously reused a lot of assets and used the same ideas (alien machines! Stuff floating in space unsupported! Glowy lights!) to give the one dimensional something else to express dull amazement over. Today the game is going to try to introduce a real plotline but have absolutely no idea what it's talking about.   The thread was unanimous that maybe we don't want to deal with these people anymore. : Distance yourself. There was some speculation in the thread that this was a choice that secretly affected the ending. I hate to break it to you, but none of these moral choices actually matter aside from loving with the alignment sliders and maybe dropping unique loot occasionally. It has a real tacked on at the end feel, except that you can extend that to the entire game. Kaela will at least nerf global move speed less.  Now, I can't blame the thread for thinking this, because the mind control power is the same Proteus uses, and that is an evil hologram that looks like death telling us that he could enslave us but maybe won't, refuses to elaborate on any of this crap, and is constantly encouraging us to use mind control to solve petty arguments. I don't think it's too much of a spoiler to say that you can just never mind control the team and nothing happens, but the game has one ending it wants to railroad you to and there's a semi-legitimate reason for that we'll discuss when we get there.  So we end up with a bunch of poo poo like this that doesn't really matter. : What's wrong with yerself metal arm? Ha!: ...Elf in a tree, elf in the sky. An acorn falls, a butterfly flies. (laughing): Stop it...Kaela speaks for all of us I think.  Is Whisper supposed to be insane here? The heroes did look into going through Sleath's portals to evacuate everyone to a place that didn't suck. : Quickly, everyone back to the tower... while we still can!: Stop it...: There is no honor in retreat, K. There is only honor in a glorious death!This is supposed to be a reversal of Kane and Maeve, but Maeve isn't a coward. She suggests avoiding fights, sure, but she fights on the front line with the rest of them and doesn't do the poo poo that Khalid from Baldur's Gate does. : I'll crush their heads and stomp their bones... tear them limb from limb.Boron is supposed to be a warrior poet who goes into ferocious rages in battle but is in control otherwise. This really doesn't strike me as being out of character so much as letting existing anger issues win, because the guy goes into violent homicidal rages every time the party engages in combat. His final skill literally removes him from player control. This is not a well-adjusted, coherent man here.  : The engineer's voice echoes around the party as if called out in an endless hall of metal. After many moments, the girl removes her hands from her ears and looks to her companions, all of whom lie on the floor.: Kaela immediately rushes to their side, relieved to find them alive, merely unconscious. One by one they come to, expressing vague recollections of their thoughts just moments ago. But each champion speaks and acts as the engineer has come to expect.: There are places in the world where even giants dare not tread. I suggest we move on in haste.: Aye laddie, I second that.TheGreatEvilKing summary posted:
 We get a whole new quest that we're lost in an alien dimension and we need to escape.  It's all just kind of the same uninteresting crap piled on. Even Stygian had a more creative alien dimension and that game was just cargo cult Lovecraft.  Unfortunately the Daeva did not get the memo that procgen loot is boring, and have helpfully provided us with a chest of boring, uninspired crap.  It's kind of telling that after two floors of fighting robots with glowy archaic weapons, the best the developers can do for an entire alien dimension are robots with archaic glowy weapons. : Abandoned?: Or a trap...: Cautiously. Maeve, stay at the rear.: Must you be so negative about everything? Fortunately the robots will just stand there and let us collect procgen loot.  Yes, the red light is going to be a "plot" point. : (snarls at Whisper) Ye were saying?TheGreatEvilKing summary posted:
 I'll show it off later, but apparently Tower Avatar is randomly corrupting these guys to attack us. It's real dumb.  Hey, new battle map! The battle is still a boring and tedious grind I won't subject you to. Skip!  We can melt it down to craft our own poo poo I guess?  You might suspect the three balls of light to have something to do with the depiction of the Trinity at the end of Dante, but you'd be loving wrong, because this is Tower of Time. : The Daeva creatures.: Whisper throws back her hands, filling them with deep crimson energy. Before the mystic can unleash her power, Boron raises his hand before her.: Wait. They have not attacked us.: With Boron's words, the hum disappears. One of the forms of energy intensifies as a scratchy voice calls out. As it finishes each group of words, the remaining orbs of energy repeat them in a softer tone. : So these beings still live. Our calculations have proved incorrect.: Another being of energy glows bright and speaks. Again, followed by all the others, in a softer tone.: Savage. Aggressive. Primitive.: Returned to imprison us.: There is no alternative. Extermination is a necessary requirement.: Wait! We have not come to harm you. We are only trying to reach the bottom of the tower.: False creatures. You destroyed our exoskeletons only moments ago.: Well your ex-o-skeletons attached us first, actually.: Corrupted exoskeletons. Not Daeva.: We only defended ourselves. We have no quarrel with you. Will you not let us pass peacefully?: The hum returns as the spheres of energy grow and diminish in luminosity. Slowly at first, then with greater speed and in a seemingly random pattern. Eventually, the beings illuminate and diminish with dizzying speed. After a few moments their illumination collectively lowers, returning to its previous state.: You are in our domain, subject to our rules. To pass, you must open yourself to judgment.This feels like it should matter given the opening of the game. :... This does not bode well.: What's the matter, Mistress? Too many secrets? Ah have nothin' to hide.: Nor, I.: What are the consequences of failing your test?There are actually consequences to this. I know, I'm just as shocked as you are. : Permanent expulsion from our territory.If we fail this long and upcoming test sequence we can no longer backtrack through the alien dimension. Personally, I'm not sure I care. : Very well. We accept your terms.: So what exactly are you judging us on?: Primitive beings, conflicted in desire, intent, and actions. This is another weird theme of the game that we'll get to later. We have heard this before, from Tower Avatar proclaiming right and wrong were for weirdoes and she was going to ignore all that poo poo and protect the tower. : When beings are false in the sacred trinity, chaos ensues. There can be no trust.: Desire, intent, and actions must all be in harmony.The irony is that the Daeva have a stupidly simplistic take on morality which can be best summed up as energy being privilege. : And how will you know what we desire? Will you have us fill out a questionnaire?: One last chance for refusal. If you accept, there is no turning back.: The party converses among itself as the Daeva watch on from their eyeless forms. After a quick affirmation among themselves, Kane agrees on behalf of the party. Each energy being then glows brightly, flooding the entire area with a blinding light.  Rakhem has been characterized as having a hammer, but given how much procgen loot there is in the game I'm letting this one go. : They're gone.: So much for finding out what makes us... us.: (unseen) All that you are is now known to use. You may proceed. We will be watching... but pay heed, there are creatures in this place which pose no threat to the Daeva, but are dangerous to your kind. TheGreatEvilKing summary posted:
Alright. Now we need to go learn the Daeva's symbol language. It's not nearly as exciting as it sounds.  This is the first symbol. It is PLUS. PLUS means "good" or "yes". This is about the level of thought of Doublespeak in 1984, a language deliberately designed to make people stupid so they could never oppose the Party.  : A soft light falls from an uneven source above, illuminating a large stone statue in the center of the room. The statue is extremely simple in nature, being little more than a large plus sign. That's not what you're showing at all, game! : Rakhem collapses next to the fountain, letting his gear and weapons spill across the floor.: Now this... (stretches and yawns) This be the kind of room ah could get used to.: So peaceful and inviting. I feel as if... I am back in the Endless Forests. : To Kaela's surprise, no one seems to pay her any attention. Even Whisper laughs at one of Rakhem's jokes.: Ah, my little man, I did not think I could ever be so amused...: With a grin, Aeric removes some food from his bag and sits on the side of the fountain. He offers a piece to Boron, who cheerfully accepts.These guys are like the easiest to mind control ever. : We may not find a better place... let's stretch out and relax for a few minutes. : Is this place taken? : There is something about this room. It makes me feel as if... as if everything is as it should be. Mind if I take a catnap? : I-I-I need to tend to my weapons. I'll wake you when it is time to move on.TheGreatEvilKing summary posted:
 Learning the Daeva word for doubleplus good opens the portal back to Boredom Tower.  There's a fountain here too. You know the drill.  POWAH  The infinite ledge is a feature of every floor so far. It's boring as poo poo. : Great, another bottomless pit.: Not the most hospitable of places, is it? Nothing about Red Avatar works.  You guys are gonna probably accuse me of fart huffing if I start blathering about how red is the color of danger and violence and blood and blah blah blah.  The game even places an inadvertent emphasis on the red color by clunkily using the word twice.  If we were being generous we could point out that Tower has flipped from being false friendly to completely evil, but all she's ever done is threaten the player insert and sic random "guardians" on the party. : How many times do we have to tell you, we're not your enemy. : And yet you ally yourself with them! Those alien annihilators. Do not deny it! I can sense their energy all about you.: We're not aligning ourselves with anyone. We simply want to reach the bottom of this tower...: And we'll pass anyone, friend or foe, to reach it. For gently caress's sake. Earlier in the game posted:I guess this could fit in with Tower Avatar calling the party friends and vaguely trying to be manipulative, but she's just turned red and is now doing the things she's been doing. She didn't even turn red when she declared the party a priority threat to the tower. It's a lazy way to try to raise the stakes without committing to a real plot or a real threat. : Donna ye listen to a word we say, Sprite Lady? We're na tryin' to help them do anything.: Forget it, Master Smith. She listens to no voice but her own.: The time for words is over, now we must let our steel speak for us. This statement should really raise more questions.  Naturally, after all of this buildup and turning red and all that nonsense Tower Avatar disappears to sic more bullshit minions on us.  TheGreatEvilKing summary posted:
 I hate to say it, but I kind of prefer Dark Deity's nacho club. Yes, they never showed up, but it's not like the villains here do much. Proteus is a clown who occasionally steps in to offer advice to the player, which is usually that they need to step in and seize more power to settle inconsequential arguments that resolve on their own. Now, i think he's actually the most compelling of our villains. The heroes have to cooperate with him because they're either under mind control, desperate to save the world, or both. He's obviously not completely on the level and his assistance is really just to further his own goals, but he does antagonistic things and we can accept him as an antagonist.  The other two antagonists are just kind of a joke. We haven't seen much of the Organthe aside from the one robot in Proteus' secret lab, and it's clear the game is building them up for...something but we don't know much yet. This leaves us with Tower Avatar as our most active antagonist and she sucks.  The game was not exactly subtle that Tower Avatar was antagonistic to our goals. Heck, even on the very first floor she was encouraging our champions to turn back. Earlier in the game posted:
She's constantly manipulating the team into doing her job, making up bullshit excuses about how she can't stop the tower from attacking the party, and being generally obviously evil. Thus instead of being a shocking twist her betrayal is just another dull meandering on this excuse for a plot.  She at least has the motivation that she thinks Proteus is bad and that the party reaching the bottom of the tower will enable some real bullshit, but it's entirely at odds with her actions of constantly loving off and dispatching easily killed minions.  I don't even know where I'm going with this, but it's a long slog to the ending. What do you want me to say? I can't really offer any insight that makes Tower Avatar more interesting.  Game dull. Game bad. Moving on!  I should probably upgrade the party's gear.  Some level ups happen.  We can now level up our mages. Yay?   gently caress. I completely forgot about Sleath in our antagonist chat, which should tell you all you need to know about him. He's boring and he sucks.  Oh no he summoned the DAEVA to use as power sources for robots god drat who cares shut up   See it's not a generic portal it's a "black tear in space" that is clearly BLUE, you <censored>  Maeve gets a bullshit speed boost.  Wow! BLUE crystals! Is your mind... blown?  There's a fountain. Time to scum!  It turns out to be a lovely debuff fountain. I don't understand why the game has these and the scrolls.  Boredom reigns! : Maybe we should talk to it?: Maybe this is part of the test?: No. Yes.: Contradictory...: No. I am an explorer of this outpost. Yes. Every moment of life is a test.: Outpost?: The Daeva are explorers. We were once like you, beings of flesh and blood with limited travel. Then we transcended, changing form from physical to energy. Energy form gave us new horizons, allowing us to explore entire universes, multi-dimensional divergences and transit timescapes. Our purpose now is to observe and learn. This is the wrong question. Remember, the only other beings with this origin story are the Organthe. The Organthe's transcendence turned them from galactic federation builders and wise scientists into monsters desiring to devour all life everywhere. How did the Daeva not fall into the same trap? Or did they come from a similarly barren galaxy? They're obviously NOT eating all life on Artara. For that matter, if the Daeva can be stuffed into robots, why did no one try stuffing an Organthe into one? Whatever. The Daeva will make less and less sense as the game progresses. : Very little. You stand in a remote observation facility. This portion of the universe has little significance. The Daeva assigned here were so as punishment for mistakes made. Time here is unrewarding. The only real interest is the attempt by the Organthe to break the dimension barrier here. It is still unknown to us why they chose this place.: The Organthe? You know of them.: Of course. We have observed them for many millennia, destroying worlds and feeding.: And ye do nothin'?: We are not the keepers of the universe. The Organthe have right to live[sic], as we have the right to live.: But as we understand it, if these Organthe have their way, they will destroy everything eventually... even you.Incidentally this also undermines the theme of hubris that the Organthe were furthering. The Organthe were wise and intelligent scientists who invented all kinds of crazy magic technology. They became energy beings and turned into monsters. The Daeva were random explorers who became energy beings. The game never elaborates if their technology was as powerful, but they suffered no consequences for it. : This is unlikely. The Daeva can exist in-between space. The Organthe for all their powers are unable to see there.: My people have a memory of a tribal chief who hid when a great storm came. Though he survived, when he returned to his village, everyone else had died. Eventually, he was so overcome with grief, he jumped into the sea, offering himself to a great black gorbus.: Then the tribal chief's trinity was false. And false trinity leads to chaos...I suppose you could argue the Daeva's discipline is what keeps them away from eating people or whatever, but the Organthe attempted and nearly pulled off a mass suicide that was only stopped by literal immortality. : ..but perhaps you are not false like the others. If your trinity is balanced, we may see fit to help you.TheGreatEvilKing summary posted:
 Surprisingly the red X means "bad".  Maybe these people could have figured out rudimentary writing. : I feel sick to my stomach.: Where is that infernal racket coming from?: The Queen of Shadows has no desire to spend another second longer than necessary here, let's move on at once. God drat I do not care about Boron's memories. Done correctly it could have been something interesting and tied into the themes and narrative of the game, but like everything else in the game it's mishandled and sloppily used.  This one isn't even that bad.   It's kind of hard for me to condemn the frostling for this because said dark being's stated goal is to murder people until they open the gates to the devil - I mean, aliens! Aliens! It's the equivalent of those guys in Inglorious Basterds carving a swastika into Nazi's skulls - it's probably not the most morally upright thing to do, but it's hardly the most traumatic memory one could imagine being conjured up by the essence of all that is wrong in the world.  Being horrified by a buried capacity to do evil isn't new, and this is not a compelling presentation.  I just want to point out that Boron's ultimate skill is to go into an unstoppable rage and leave player control to run around and kill things. Boron's capacity for anger and violence never comes up in any of the narrative stuff. Even having him be terrified of it and try to use it only when necessary would be a step up from this tedious bullshit. : What was it? I mean, from the context of the game we can infer that those shadow guys killed the frostling's three friends and he's happy he gets to beat them to death. It's not a healthy emotion but as far as this poo poo goes I can think of far worse. : How do you know it was the memory you seek? Perhaps this room--: Boron moves to leave the chamber.: I am a frostling, Jarl Dwarf. Memories are the one thing we know above all others.TheGreatEvilKing summary posted:
 The fountain is obvious schmuck bait but you can reload out of it.  We continue wandering through the Boredom Dimension.  ...screw it, this is long enough. I can only take so much of this game. I need you to judge. I need you to judge me - I mean, I need you to vote. Are we going to take the Daeva test seriously where I look up guides and whatnot, or should I try muddling through it and watch as I struggle with Nick Macari logic? Choose wisely!
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Jul 28, 2023 01:15
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: BOREDOM PROTOCOLS! GRIND! GRIND! GRIND!
: Alas, as much as I would like to repay your effort with the Risen by doing this task, it is truly beyond my ability. Try as you might, you will not penetrate this barrier by any means known to man or elf. Only the magic of old could undo the spell and there is none alive today who can wield such power.
: Welcome to the team lil buddy.
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So the punishment for failing the test is... less game you can experience? loving fail the test on purpose, anything to shorten this nightmare by even the tiniest amount
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Jul 28, 2023 01:34
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So they lack a morality, but engage in a system that forcibly punishes members for doing wrong.
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Jul 28, 2023 02:20
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Why... how.... how did they miss the idea of the "moral choice" bullshit influencing the ending? It's alluded to so heavily by the text, and it seems to (futilely) be one of the main themes and questions that the game poses to the player.
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Jul 28, 2023 03:00
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Take the test seriously as your crime for inflicting this LP on the forums.
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Jul 28, 2023 04:24
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TheGreatEvilKing posted:
 Aren't the characters canonically unaware that Youspock is influencing them? What does their alignment even represent here?Anyway I vote use a guide because I want to see you do the "right" thing while simultaneously ripping the logic of this test apart.
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Jul 28, 2023 05:07
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TheOneAndOnlyT posted:Why the gently caress does this give alignment points? So Kaela is aware that there is mind fuckery going on, but the other characters aren't. The simple answer is that the system only works with alignment points lol Breadmaster posted:So the punishment for failing the test is... less game you can experience? loving fail the test on purpose, anything to shorten this nightmare by even the tiniest amount I wish. No, failing the test takes away the ability to backtrack, but we still have to do all the dumb bullshit in the Boring Dimension.
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Jul 28, 2023 05:13
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Randalor posted:Take the test seriously as your crime for inflicting this LP on the forums.
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Jul 28, 2023 08:04
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Randalor posted:Take the test seriously as your crime for inflicting this LP on the forums.
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Jul 28, 2023 10:56
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Muddle through. Unleash your inner Nick.
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Jul 28, 2023 12:11
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Randalor posted:Take the test seriously as your crime for inflicting this LP on the forums.
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Jul 28, 2023 16:00
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This LP has already saved at least one person from attempting to play this game. If it's something where you are asked a series of questions as the test, then pick randomly/try to fail so that you aren't expending any more effort to get through this.
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Jul 28, 2023 16:16
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Muddle through, let's see what information the devs felt was necessary to let a blind player figure this out.
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Jul 28, 2023 16:16
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Randalor posted:Take the test seriously as your crime for inflicting this LP on the forums.
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Jul 28, 2023 19:32
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... wow, I shouldn't post right before bed. That makes very little sense, and yet people keep quoting it.
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Jul 28, 2023 19:47
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Randalor posted:Take the test seriously as the punishment for your crime for inflicting this LP on the forums.
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Jul 28, 2023 21:52
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Randalor posted:Take the test seriously as your crime for inflicting this LP on the forums.
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Jul 29, 2023 00:42
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Take it somewhat seriously, mostly so you can complain about the gulf between what they want and what actually makes sense.
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Jul 29, 2023 01:16
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lol, the daeva are another kind of energy beings? I thought they had to be Organthe, since they seem so obviously to be invaders without bodily form. But these ones are good, guys, don't worry. Clearly distinct from the other guys in their supernaturally strong robot suits, willingly awaiting their inevitable death when the other monsters break through.
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Jul 29, 2023 13:58
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Oh No! Not Kane! Welcome back! I'll leave the judgement vote open till the next update as we haven't quite gotten to the test. In the meantime, enjoy the pointless meanderings! Previously, on Tower of Time... posted:: Why do I feel like we should be giving a password or something?: They are unlikely to attack... that is not much of a test.: As the group approaches, the eyes of the Daeva sentinels turn bright red. They point their polearms at your champions and charge. TheGreatEvilKing summary posted:
 Anyway, all of these exoskeletons are somehow corrupted by Tower Avatar. This raises a lot of questions, like "how does Tower Avatar corrupt energy beings" and "if the Magi could mind control energy beings, how the gently caress did they lose the war?"  Before you ask, yes, she is actually corrupting the energy beings somehow instead of just hacking the exoskeletons. I don't get it either. Apparently the Magi had the secret of trapping energy beings in robots? I don't even know.  It's another boring rear end grind battle. We've seen the Daeva before. Skip!  Oh no! A Big Robot!   I am going to say this yet again. Having your characters lampshade how much stupid repetitive crap you're making the player do does not compensate for making the player do stupid repetitive crap. : (opens her mouth to speak): By Grannick's Blades, if ye say one word, Shadow Witch...: With weapons drawn, your party cautiously approaches. Within just a few feet of the machine, the construct springs to life--its eyes glowing bright blue. : It seems like you're not like the others either. So far, all of you guys have been trying to kill us, even though we're supposed to be having a peaceful little test.: Not like the others. The others were corrupted.: Corrupted? One of the energy Daeva mentioned that. I did not think to take him literally.: What do you mean? I thought the Daeva could hide in the magic space where no one could see them. : So why don't you stop them! They're your people, your responsibility.You might be asking "why don't these powerful energy beings beat the poo poo out of Tower Avatar instead of putting up with her poo poo?" Shut up. This is Tower of Time.  Quiet Maeve. This is actually a reasonable question. It's implied that the trinity is a communal thing, as three Daeva show up to explain it. You need to unite desire, intent, and action. This runs smack into the problem that the Daeva use "inaction" as their most common action. It's not clear whether or not the Daeva have the desire or intent to harm our heroes, but by their inaction they happily let the heroes come to harm. The Daeva come across as massive hypocrites, and I'm not sure if the authors actually intended them that way. : We do not destroy our own.Now THIS is bullshit. Remember, destroying an exoskeleton doesn't actually kill the Daeva in it. We've smashed a bunch of them and the Daeva just awkwardly bail out. Earlier in the game posted:Busting the Daeva out of their exoskeletons would be a mercy if that statement about being trapped in there is true.  This is also contradictory with their "Organthe have the right to live" spiel. Again, a better writer would have used this to show that the Daeva are full of poo poo and morally incoherent, but because this game threw consistency in the trash with the introduction with quantum rabbits and people plowing unfarmable fields, it's impossible to know what the intent is here, and I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be taking away from this exchange. Kane is supposed to be the unreasonable one here because he's calling the Daeva out on their poo poo to the point that the normally flexible Maeve is horrified, but the Daeva are failing moral philosophy 101 on their way to join the Mobile Infantry. : Our trinity must stay in balance. Of course, our champions don't have the wit to ask them if they desire their compatriots to stay stuck in their exoskeletons - or how their trinity stayed in balance while they made mistakes that got them exiled to the space boondocks - so who knows? There's also the small matter that the Magi seem to have been mass enslaving them for use as a power source, so I imagine there's some resentment there.  : Exactly, Whisper. They will not raise their finger to stop their own from killing our kind, but as soon as a sword is raised to their throat, they have no qualms over killing us.... Do you creature?: K, stop! This should raise some alarm bells, seeing as Kane will not shut up about honor and he's not a young man either! He is a grizzled veteran of the royal guard who presumably watched as the last human kingdom fell into decay and starvation. : Unexpectedly hostile. That was a miscalculation. There it is again. Destroying the exoskeleton apparently doesn't hurt the Daeva inside. Those are not dying words, that's someone realizing they made a minor mistake.  : Kane sheaths his weapon, turns his back to the marksman and walks defiantly toward the chamber exit. The game has a lot to say about hard choices. We saw it with Proteus asking the elementals to sacrifice to make Space Lab Jail, we will be seeing much more before the end of the game.  TheGreatEvilKing summary posted:
I don't think this scene works. We've already covered how inconsistent the Daeva are, but the betrayal of Kane's principles is bizarrely temporary and meaningless. Kane smashes the exoskeleton but the Daeva itself escapes presumably unharmed. It takes this supreme transgression - murdering a messenger in the middle of a parley - to a violent but impotent act like smashing someone's car. Then we have the weirdness where all these opinionated characters just kind of shut up while Kane falls to pieces. I can see Aeric standing down because Kane bitch-slapped him when he tried to seize leadership, but are we really supposed to believe Whisper is just going to stand there and be led by this obviously unstable guy? What about Rakhem, he's the most level headed guy of this admittedly thinly characterized cast. What about Kaela? She's been calling out these guys whenever they start getting mind controlled and nutty, and she has not shown any inclination of being cowed by anyone. She even called You out on his bullshit. I might not expect a full blown mutiny immediately, but you'd expect some of the smarter characters to start talking about replacing Kane as party leader or even asking You to intervene.  That would require us to actually have plot object permanence.  The portal behind Smashbot takes us back to the "real world" where we can continue to grind and get bored.  POWAH   Whatever.  : Though there is no fountain in this room, there is a statue of a simple large circle in the center of the room. : (also reading from the wall) This one is in common tongue, but makes no sense. "Four layer cakes, does not a maker bake.": The scribblings of a mad man?: (inspecting one of the scrolls) Or just a random collection of materials. Important secrets could be stored among such things...I could stay here for a year, reading day and night, and still not read through all of this.: Perhaps ye should, ha!: Touching the smooth circular statue, a grimace breaks upon Boron's face.: This place does not feel right. We don't have time to waste here... He's stumbled into the perimeter of wisdom! Run! : Don't say that, K. Perhaps the Avatar is... (looks puzzled): What, low-born, perhaps the Avatar is what?: Huh, oh I don't remember what I was thinking... nevermind.: Ah think we should leave here sooner, rather than later...: After reading through a dozen papers, Whisper holds one up and calls your party's attention. She reads the passage aloud. TheGreatEvilKing summary posted:
 That's really not what you showed us. We didn't lose confidence, people literally lost understanding and had no idea what's going on! There's a difference between "I understood the question and do not know the answer" and "I do not understand what you are asking me" and we are heavily in the latter territory here. Oh well, we've learned all the symbols despite the Daeva being able to communicate in the written word (via the books). What do we do with these symbols, you ask?  Simple. You see this poo poo? You can click on it to toggle between green, red, blue, or off. The goal is to make the symbol of yes/no/I don't know in response to the Daeva asking the question. Here goes!  : A dazzling blue orb appears in front of the party, crackling with raw energy and pulsating slowly. A deep booming voice echoes in the chamber. This is the main conceit of the "trinity" nonsense. If we say, for example, that stealing is bad and then they give us a scenario where our choices are to steal or die, we have to continue to say that stealing is bad. What do you mean intent and desire matter, shut up! : When you are ready, light the symbol, as you have been shown before. So, we still have a vote, and it is NOT on this question. The vote is Do I use a guide and do this right, or do I try to muddle through it based on my common sense? It's the same vote as last update, and it's still open! I'll be discussing my thoughts on this question in the next update.
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Jul 30, 2023 21:57
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I don't know you personally but I can't just stand here and watch you harming yourself, RTFM
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Jul 30, 2023 22:29
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Do it right, you coward.
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Jul 30, 2023 22:43
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What common sense? The one that led you to play this game in the first place? Clearly inadequate. Therefore, use a guide.
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Jul 30, 2023 22:56
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TheDavies posted:What common sense? The one that led you to play this game in the first place? Clearly inadequate. Therefore, use a guide.
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Jul 30, 2023 22:56
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Answer it all honestly as far as you can determine in the context of the game. For example, the first question is "no", because the loot is proc-gen. Though you could probably argue that's pseudo-random at best, so maybe "dunno" Actually I like that option better. Answer every question with the scrambled brain mood [o].
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Jul 31, 2023 00:26
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Do it right. It's weird how quiet Kaela is. You'd think she'd have a lot to say about the Daeva.
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Jul 31, 2023 05:11
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goatface posted:Actually I like that option better. Answer every question with the scrambled brain mood [o]. This is an ironclad strategy, our trinity must be balanced if we have no thoughts or opinions about anything.
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Jul 31, 2023 05:32
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| # ? May 8, 2024 22:24 |
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TheDavies posted:What common sense? The one that led you to play this game in the first place? Clearly inadequate. Therefore, use a guide.
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Jul 31, 2023 07:03
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