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Saladin
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Apr 3, 2023 19:36
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A Saladin
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Apr 3, 2023 19:44
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was gonna vote for Gengis again but think i will be outvoted...
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Apr 3, 2023 21:24
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I vote for Barbarossa because I tried to play the first level of that campaign yesterday and did not succeed By the way what difficulty are you playing on?
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Apr 3, 2023 21:54
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VostokProgram posted:I vote for Barbarossa because I tried to play the first level of that campaign yesterday and did not succeed
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Apr 3, 2023 22:09
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Cythereal posted:From my understanding, it took the French collective memory a long time to decide whether to be proud or ashamed of Joan of Arc. While it's settled on being proud of her and this campaign is a straightforward hagiography, there's a lot of less pleasant folklore to her legend as well from what I've looked up. Possibly propaganda aiming to villify her, possibly her being a complex figure. Like what
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Apr 3, 2023 22:26
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Joan posted:Like what One of the big ones I've found repeated in a number of sources, which I don't know if they're accurate, is that Joan's sword broke during the Siege of Paris because she had a habit of beating prostitutes with it (with the flat of the sword). One of her most common epithets is 'Joan the Maid' emphasizing that she never wed or had sex, a beacon of purity and feminine virtue. However, some historians and folklorists think that this is almost certainly bullshit even before getting into the speculation that she might have been genderqueer or bi/homosexual. It's also been gone back and forth on a lot whether she actually crossdressed much if at all, or whether she did in fact dress 'properly' as a woman should.
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Apr 3, 2023 22:31
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It's not really (or at least only) about her character but about what she was supposed to be the symbol of. To quote a comment from this video series, which is directly about this campaign: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZbBi9DwtUI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRAZpfst3Dg UAnchovy posted:I think it was helpful that you highlighted just how contested the legacy of Joan is. Even before she died, you could see the beginnings of a war about how to interpret her. Both of Joan's trials - the original one leading to her death, and the nullification trial in 1452 - were extremely propagandistic.
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Apr 3, 2023 22:43
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VostokProgram posted:I vote for Barbarossa because I tried to play the first level of that campaign yesterday and did not succeed Standard throughout. My goal is to do my best to make sure I get through the entirety of the game, which I believe I can do even with the increase of difficulty in later campaigns, as long as I am playing on the easiest difficulty setting. I would much rather that, than get blocked in a Rajas campaign because I was committed to playing on Hard.
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Apr 3, 2023 23:40
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Re: Paris You can be even sneakier by using the bombards/capable siege units to tear down the wall and trees east of the fanatics and avoid the remaining troops in the city.
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Apr 4, 2023 04:51
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My general attitude is that while I would like to make things easier for myself, I will try, where possible, to not cheese a mission entirely. Otherwise there's some really easily breakable ones that can be beaten in 5 minutes. Anyway, vote's closed! Saladin takes it handily.
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Apr 4, 2023 12:47
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Saladin - Part 1: An Arabian Knight Age of Empires II: Definitive Edition - Saracens Theme Very well, then let us begin, the tale of the even-handed Sultan.   Might as well show off the Africa/Middle East map while we're here. The rest of the world doesn't get nearly as many campaigns as Europe, but at least all of the African civilizations that are present get a full campaign! Portugal still managed to sneak in though, and the Persians do still need a campaign. Perhaps something for a future expansion to eventually fix.  Mission 1 Starting Text "Egypt. A month since I entered the Holy Land... I was in a foreign land. And I was dying. I wandered the cold desert for four nights before the horse archers found me. I had abandoned my mount to the vultures and my armor to the heat of day. As a knight, I was not much of a threat to them. I thought these men were Turks, come to toy with their prey. But when I could distinguish the riders from the blur of mirage, I saw that they were Saracens, the rulers of the Middle East. I had ridden to the Holy Land with the Crusaders from France and Normandy, so I was by all rights these Saracens' enemy. Yet they gave me water and a spindly horse and led me back to their leader. And that was how I met Saladin. The paintings in Europe show Saladin as demonic, barbarian. Yet he is more chivalrous than any knight I'd met before and prefers the palaces of Damascus to slaughtering Normans in the desert. I had not expected hospitality from Saracens - we Normans execute any armed Arab we capture. But Saladin left me free to explore his camp. Perhaps he wants an objective observer to chronicle the prodigious bloodshed ahead. Saladin's army is heading south to Egypt to reinforce Cairo. Egypt is a tempting prize for the Crusaders. She is fabulously wealthy, yet governed by an ineffectual fool. Before my capture, I was en route to join in the Crusaders' assault on Egypt. It is a bitter irony that now I shall view the contest from the enemy camp. So it was that I found myself less than a hundred miles from the Dead Sea, in the company of my enemies."  The Saracens are kind of the Anti-Franks. Both in the sense that they are a more flexible and technical civilization which encourages clever play rather than spamming the map with 100 Paladins, and also because they have Camels, which are an anti-Cavalry Cavalry unit. This is taken to an even further extreme by the Saracens' unique unit, the Mameluke. Which like the Throwing Axeman is a ranged Melee unit (they throw their scimitars), except instead of being the complement to their main cavalry unit serves as more of an endgame replacement for it (unless you're fighting other Camels or other specialty situations). This is good, because you'll be fighting the Franks a lot. In this case, you're given a large army and told to go beat up the Franks on the western side of the map.  Frankish Soldier: The Holy Land is ours now. And soon, Egypt will be as well! Scattered groups of Frankish soldiers patrol the desert, they're fairly easy to take down.  Egyptian Caliph: Saladin, where are you going with that great army? A little bit before you get to the Pyramids, the Egyptian Caliph starts getting nervous that you're dragging this huge army onto his front lawn. This should be your first sign that something's up.  Egyptian Caliph: Saladin, I am afraid I do not trust your motives. Turn back at once! The Caliph will chime in again once you get further down the map, usually roughly near the West Frankish camp. Of course, you can't listen to the Caliph because you need to complete your victory objective.  Egyptian Caliph: Very well. You leave me no choice. I have allied myself with the Franks. We will conspire to keep you out of Cairo! Saracen Soldier: Lord Saladin, the Egyptians are cowardly and weak. If we station troops near their main mosque, they will surely surrender. Once you reach the Nile, the Egyptians switch to being your enemy, though their troops don't leave Cairo. The new goal is to pierce through the city walls and rush to the Mosque as quickly as possible.  Saracen Soldier: Lord Saladin, we have captured a Frankish war vessel. (Upon destroying the Blacksmith) Lord Saladin, we have found Frankish armor in the ruins of this blacksmith! Not sure where the Franks got a Cannon Galleon, but sure, let's roll with it. This lets you break down the gates of Cairo with minimal effort. Defeating the rest of the troops on this island causes the West Franks to resign, and destroying the blacksmith gives you a free armor upgrade (Chain Barding).  Egyptian Caliph: You will not enter Cairo! This line always made me laugh as a kid - the Caliph is triggered to say it once you approach Cairo's gates, but in most cases you've already blown up them up from a distance before moving in, so he's just screaming at you in useless rage while you march into the city. There are Egyptian troops that patrol the city, but honestly with good enough micro on your Scouts, you can just outrun them and get to the gate of the Mosque without any real problems.  Egyptian Caliph: Saladin! The Franks have betrayed us! They mean to invade Cairo! We were wrong not to trust our fellow Saracens. Please! These troops are yours to command. Just defeat the treacherous Franks! And once you do, the Egyptians switch back to Ally, give you some troops and healing, and task you with the final goal of the scenario: taking out the East Franks' Town Center.   The East Franks have some Towers and a standing army on the way to the Town Center. You can skip the Towers, but make sure to take down the army and then just smash the Town Center for victory. Saracen Soldier: My lord, the Franks have been defeated! Mission 1 Ending Text "The Franks are dispersed, and the Egyptian army broken. Saladin has taken his place as governor of the Nile. Any European king would seize this opportunity to eliminate his political rivals. Saladin, however, allowed any Egyptian opposed to his rule to leave the city unharmed. Saladin has set out to win over the population. In Cairo, he built mosques and palaces, universities and hospitals. My own countrymen, the sons of Europe, showed naught but treachery, while the Saracens work to dignify their civilization. It is a troubling turn of events and I have difficulty sleeping." And there's the first Saladin scenario! Honestly, with the exception of Barbarossa, most of the first scenarios of the original Age of Kings campaigns are a limited-scope introduction to the story/civilization. I always liked this one a little bit better than Joan of Arc's though, because you were always moving forward rather than running around in circles. As previously discussed, I will be busy for the rest of the week and cannot guarantee another update until Monday, though perhaps if I'm lucky I might be able to grab some time before then. Extra Slides Mission 1 - Intro Slide 1 Mission 1 - Intro Slide 2 Mission 1 - Intro Slide 3 Mission 1 - Intro Slide 4 Mission 1 - Intro Slide 5 Mission 1 - Intro Slide 6 Mission 1 - Intro Slide 7 Mission 1 - Intro Slide 8 Mission 1 - Intro Slide 9 Mission 1 - End Slide 1 Mission 1 - End Slide 2 Jossar fucked around with this message at 03:35 on Apr 5, 2023 |
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Apr 5, 2023 03:28
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A couple of historical trivia notes for the curious: 'Saladin' is an Anglicization of the guy's proper name, Salah al-Din Yusuf ibn Ayyub, which I don't think this game ever clarifies. And likewise, 'Saracen' is an archaic generic term used in Europe for the Muslim peoples of the Middle East during this time, used in this game as a catch-all for Arab and Islamic forces not otherwise represented by a more specific civilization. They're another good possibility for a future expansion to split up into multiple civs.
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Apr 5, 2023 03:45
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So yeah, I really hate that they use "Saracen" here. It's a crusader exonym, and I hate that AoE2 uses it as a catch-all like it does, and in the story even has different Muslim groups using it to describe themselves and each other. I suppose I get not just saying "Arab," especially since that wouldn't be strictly accurate for the Kurdish Saladin, and I'm not asking them to give a lecture on the state of the Fatimids or how Saladin ends up supplanting them, but almost anything would be better than "Saracen." It sticks out especially strongly in the modern game, where we DO have so many better realized (and named) Islamic civilizations kicking around in the civ list.
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Apr 5, 2023 04:06
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I kind of like it just because it sounds badass. Agreed that it is completely silly to have Muslim characters identify themselves or each other as "a Saracen", but as far as using an exonym for a faction name I don't think its utterly terrible or anything. For what the game is trying to represent - the many Muslim armies that existed during the crusades mushed into one faction - I'm not sure there is a much better word. There's no good word for anti-crusader afaik. Maybe in '99 they could have gotten away with "Jihadi" or something
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Apr 5, 2023 05:35
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https://twitter.com/AgeOfEmpires/status/1644389609097265178
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Apr 8, 2023 06:34
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For the OP: if you haven't tried, you can turn off Depth of Field, Bloom and "Vignette" to make the picture clearer. If you want pixel-level clarity, you can also try turning off Anti-Aliasing and Sharpen together. Fog effects are up to your preference, but Map Lighting (color toning) will play a story role in some campaigns. Control-wise, I only have one suggestion: try setting the click-scrolling to "Legacy Behaviour" and see if you like it - it completely syncs map scroll to the mouse with no acceleration/deceleration. This is gonna be an epic LP. Tweak the visuals to make your eyes as comfortable as you like. /salute. Two nitpicks: Jossar posted:11 campaigns here just in Europe alone, though it is the most populated continent compared to the others. Example estimates: Europe: 38.5m in 1000, 73.5m in 1340, 50m in 1450 (source) South Asia: 85.2m in 1000, 105m in 1400, 125m in 1500 (source) China: 70~90m in 1200, 120~200m in 1600 (wikipedia & misc. online sources) Jossar posted:Herd animals... also fatten up over time if left alone OTOH in Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds, that non-AoE AoE game, you can garrison herdables in an Animal Nursery to generate a constant trickle of food. The same mechanic was independently invented in the Portuguese Civilization Mod for AoE2, whose author became a Forgotten Empires developer. It will eventually be adopted into AoE2DE in a future civ. ==== VostokProgram posted:Agreed that it is completely silly to have Muslim characters identify themselves or each other as "a Saracen" It would be both more sensible and more accurate to call the character "Egyptian Vizir", since that was the real ruler of Egypt at the time, to whom the caliph was a teenage puppet. ==== If y'all want to read more AoE rant, I wrote a little bit on behind-the-scenes situations in another thread. cuc fucked around with this message at 08:10 on Jun 8, 2023 |
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Apr 8, 2023 08:14
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cuc posted:Two nitpicks: pretty sure OP was referring to the amount of campaigns, not the amount of people also fattening livestock were in Age of Mythology
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Apr 8, 2023 09:24
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Mazerunner posted:pretty sure OP was referring to the amount of campaigns, not the amount of people I blame too much time spent reading the Age communities, whose members tend to be evenly split between "balance-first" people who are like "game has too many civs to be balanced, delete some please?", and "history-first" people who can start complaining about history accuracy at the drop of a hat while demanding 100 more civs to properly cover the whole world. quote:also fattening livestock were in Age of Mythology Additionally, AoM is the only Age game to have Chickens as a unit, who are mechanically neither herdables nor hunts, but walking berry bushes. 
cuc fucked around with this message at 07:01 on Apr 9, 2023 |
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Apr 8, 2023 14:12
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Honestly with the intelligence of your typical chicken that’s just being true to life
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Apr 8, 2023 17:57
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Yeah, sorry I wasn't clear about indicating that Europe is the one with the most campaigns, which was the intent. I did screw up the animal thing though, probably crossed my internal wires with Age of Mythology which I also played a decent amount of, and as mentioned did have that feature. Went back and edited that out. Played through the next scenario, probably won't get it up until tomorrow as originally planned: I spent too much time chasing around non-existent bandit camps and the AI finally decided to start doing shenanigans where it hides in the fog of war to avoid surrendering, so it was a bit of a slog. Jossar fucked around with this message at 02:52 on Apr 10, 2023 |
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Apr 10, 2023 02:49
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Saladin - Part 2: Lord of Arabia Mission 2 Starting Text "The Holy City of Medina. Year fifteen of my capture... Volumes have I filled with my fatigued writings. Lord Saladin reads them only rarely. He speaks of greater events yet to come. The political boundaries in this endless desert have shifted as a result of three Crusades. Four Crusader states now exist in the Holy Land. After the Saracen victory in Egypt, the Crusader leaders realized that Saladin was worthy of their concern. They were quick to suggest a treaty. I hoped that with peace at last upon us, I would be returned to my own folk, but this peace, so short-lived, is already broken. And it is not Saracen, but Crusader that has violated his word of honor. Reynald de Chatillon, a wicked French knight, has been raiding Arab territory in defiance of the treaty. He attacks trade caravans, and his pirate ships threaten the Saracen holy cities of Medina and Mecca. Saladin, in his fury, has sworn to kill Reynald with his own hands."  Trade Cart: Help us! Crusader bandits are everywhere!  Light Cavalry: We must stop these arrogant Crusader attacks on our peaceful communities. You start this map with a centralized camp and a good deal of resources, but your allies' trade routes are constantly being harassed by Reynald's Bandits.  I use my initial troops to take out a large number of the static Bandit forces. This removes them as a serious threat considering that they can't build more, but also they're not what you should be worried about anyway. Taking out enough of them gets Reynald himself to remark: Reynald: I am coming for you, Saladin. Soon... He does in fact show up as a unique hero unit on the map, but I was never able to distinguish Reynald from the other units in play.  The Saracens have several unique bonuses relating to Markets, which the game tries to encourage you to use by giving you one for free (minus villager build time). In addition to the Saracens having cheaper markets in general, they also trade for resources at a much lower "tax" rate compared to other civilizations. Going all in on trading generally isn't a great long term strategy because of the increase in prices on goods, but it is great for an early game slingshot and I use it to help burst myself up to Castle Age. I also make a couple of trade carts and send them off to my allies' markets for increased gold generation. While the central gold pile lasts you for a while, when it runs out none of the other piles on the map are as sustainable, so it's good to have alternative revenue streams in place by that point.    At around 20 minutes, Reynald's Raiders will start streaming in multiple groups of Archers/Skirmishers, and the occasional Battering Ram and Mangonel. The Raiders are the scenario's main threat and can spell game over if you spend too much time booming up at the start. Notice, by the way, that the Pirates get to advance up to the Imperial Age, you however are stuck in Castle. This is kind of annoying because it means you never get really good siege and are kind of stuck with Rams. The good news about you drawing all of the aggro is that your allies tend to be safe throughout most of the scenario, at least from a mission defeat. The Raiders and Bandits will still attack their trade routes and staving that off does allow your allies to generate gold which they tribute to you, but it's more of a side goal than your main focus. You would think the Pirates, being the only faction on the map in Imperial, would be more of a threat, but if you don't build a Navy they tend to be pretty passive.  Eventually, after several waves of attacks, I get a Castle up, solidify my economy, and start pumping out Mamelukes/Elite Skirmishers/Rams. Mamelukes are great for destroying most of the enemy army, except for Archers, and they're a little too vulnerable to static defenses to use for clearing out buildings.   It's a bit of a fight to break through the Raiders' gates, but once I do so and take out their town, the rest of the scenario is basically just clean up.   I spend a lot of time trying to hunt down Bandit camps, but it turns out to be unnecessary, since they resign when the other two forces are defeated. It's still worthwhile to scour the rest of the land-accessible part of the map to eliminate this Pirate camp though.    The last part of the scenario as intended is a naval invasion, build up some transports and a couple of Fire Ships, take out some Pirate Ships and land on their western base. I build a base camp to support the flow of troops, but it's not really necessary.    One march later, and the scenario is com...   *sigh* Okay, so the Pirates refused to surrender and just started building up again near my base. One thorough sweep of their remnants later...  Reynald: I'll be back, Saracen dog! Mission 2 Ending Text "Although I am still a prisoner, Saladin and his generals dine with me. Over meals we discuss mathematics and astronomy. I never imagined a race of desert folk could be so wise. Baghdad, the Saracen capital, is the most civilized city in the world, with free hospitals, public baths, a postal service, and banks with branches as far away as China. But as we eat, talk inevitably turns to war. Reynald's pirate vessels now rot at the bottom of the Red Sea. His raids have stopped. Reynald has escaped, but I suspect Saladin shall neither forgive nor forget." I'm not sure how many of the problems were endemic to the scenario versus me playing badly because I was out of practice after a few days, but it was a slog. I definitely feel like the entire middle part of the map was pointless and could have been cut though. Extra Slides Mission 2 - Intro Slide 1 Mission 2 - Intro Slide 2 Mission 2 - Intro Slide 3 Mission 2 - Intro Slide 4 Mission 2 - Intro Slide 5 Mission 2 - Intro Slide 6 Mission 2 - Intro Slide 7 Mission 2 - End Slide 1 Mission 2 - End Slide 2 Mission 2 - End Slide 3 Jossar fucked around with this message at 01:21 on Apr 11, 2023 |
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Apr 11, 2023 01:09
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A bit late, butJossar posted:La Hire's appearance here is notable for being the only time any hero except Joan appears multiple times in this campaign. It's also notable that this is either a zombie or an impostor, as the actual La Hire has been dead for about a decade in 1453, when this mission takes place. 
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Apr 11, 2023 15:08
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I've heard of this mission being somewhat infamous for being a slog.
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Apr 11, 2023 15:48
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A note or two. Jean Bureau, that Cannon hero that was worse than a regular bombard cannon. His stats being worse is particularly insulting, because a quick google search of him told me that apparently he is largely credited with making French Artillery among the most effective in the world in his time. Also, I don't think Reynald himself actually contributes as a hero unit; I think his hero unit is actually de-spawned after his little scene. He will show up later, though.
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Apr 11, 2023 18:38
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Jean Bureau posted:He has the appearance of a Bombard Cannon, but with overall inferior stats. This is partially due to the standard Bombard Cannon receiving an extra 30 HP and 20 anti-siege damage in The Conquerors that was never given to Bureau, though he still has significantly worse anti-building damage and armor (though he notably takes no anti-siege damage due to lacking the armor class) even outside of these changes.
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Apr 11, 2023 19:14
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Doesn't excuse his range being shorter! Justice for Jean!
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Apr 11, 2023 21:01
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NewMars posted:I've heard of this mission being somewhat infamous for being a slog. Also the annoying "HELP! CRUSADERS ARE ATTACKING OUR TRADE ROUTES!" quote that you'll be hearing a lot if you don't immediately deal with the AI.
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Apr 11, 2023 22:42
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Maybe he's got an early prototype bombard from before they ironed out all the kinks.
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Apr 11, 2023 23:12
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I think Reynald does punch a Trade Caravan, but yeah, it's not much. Speaking of which... Saladin - Part 3: The Horns of Hattin Mission 3 Starting Text "Galilee. Year twenty of my capture. Last night, we rode into a sandstorm. The men dared not open their mouths to speak. We clung to the necks of horses or camels while waves of sand rose and fell around us. The Saracens have pursued a large force of Europeans into the desert. The Crusaders carry with them a relic - a piece of the True Cross. Capturing this artifact will deal a severe blow to the morale of Saladin's Christian foes. I asked Saladin why we were here, miles from civilization and water. He said 'to bring crimson death to the blue-eyed enemy.' The huge Crusader army has halted to make its stand beneath the two peaks called the Horns of Hattin. At the Horns is only a single pool of water, and Saladin controls it. At night, the Saracens ride out and extravagantly pour out vessels of water into the sand within sight of the thirst-crazed Europeans. It is cruelty worthy of a... Crusader."   Saracen Soldier: The European murderers shall die in this desert! You start this scenario with two bases. The northern one is sort of your "real" base and contains most of the important infrastructure, while your southern one is a giant gold mine.  Let's talk about the conditions of this scenario: You have a maximum population limit of 75, which isn't a lot, although apparently Dynasties of India raised this limit. You can't build most static defenses, including Castles. But you don't have to defend anything - your only victory condition is to grab the piece of the True Cross (represented in-game as an ordinary relic) and drag it over via a Monk to a set of flags in the northern base. So what I do is sell off a bunch of my resources, tech up to Castle Age, and build a Monastery. Then I destroy a small part of the wall to let my army out.  There is a small Hospitaller/Knights Templar base in front of the True Cross, but the actual relic is just guarded by a bunch of wooden palisades and a few Monks. On Standard this location is revealed to you right from the start, but it's not too hard to spend two or three minutes scouting it out, even if you didn't know its exact location.  The Hospitallers start streaming in Teutonic Knights, the Teutons' extremely powerful, but slow, Infantry Unique Unit, which can be a threat to your starting army. But since I brought a bunch of monks to grab the relic, they can just convert enough of the Knights to mitigate the threat of the others. It's also at this time that Reynald's forces finally scout out my bases. Jerusalem Scout: Lord Reynald, we have found a Saracen camp!  Monk: The Piece of the True Cross! The Crusaders' faith will be lost! We must return it to our camp immediately! The Knights will keep wandering in, but my army has broken through to the True Cross and so its' main job is done. Now they just serve as a distraction/cannon fodder to protect the Monks while they grab the relic.   Reynald: Saladin! I believe we have some unfinished business! Reynald and a wave of his forces attack, which would be scary if I had any incentive to care, but again, I don't.  Just pick up the relic.   And move it on up. Monk: We have captured the Europeans' precious relic. My heart weeps for the Crusader infidels. Mission 3 Ending Text "The fighting was fierce - the Crusaders had to conquer or die. Mostly, they died. Saladin has treated his prisoners well, providing them with ice water from the mountains and comfortable tents. For the first time in years, I have been able to speak with fellow countrymen. But I am unsure what to say to these... invaders. Not all of the prisoners were treated so royally. Reynald de Chatillon was captured here and, fulfilling his vow, Saladin sliced off Reynald's head with his own scimitar. How ironic that it was only after the Crusaders entered their lands that the Saracens were transformed into the people that we set out to destroy." This scenario is the opposite of the last one - here you are actively rewarded for just turning the whole thing into a sub-15 minute smash and grab. This isn't even the fastest way to do it - I know it can be done in half the time, even on Hard, if you just drop a Town Center right on top of the Hospitallers as soon as possible. I'm puzzled as to whether this is supposed to be the intended solution, but it always seemed to me to be the natural one. After all, the developers could have placed the Piece of the True Cross in a Castle, or in the middle of Jerusalem's base, or something. I know the Saracens are supposed to be good at Monk rushes, so I guess this is sort of a campaign-based way to tie into that? Mystery for the ages. Extra Slides Mission 3 - Intro Slide 1 Mission 3 - Intro Slide 2 Mission 3 - Intro Slide 3 Mission 3 - Intro Slide 4 Mission 3 - Intro Slide 5 Mission 3 - Intro Slide 6 Mission 3 - End Slide 1 Mission 3 - End Slide 2 Mission 3 - End Slide 3 Jossar fucked around with this message at 01:05 on Apr 12, 2023 |
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Apr 12, 2023 00:42
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My strategy as a kid was to build a wall across the map connecting both bases and line it with monks and convert everything that came near. That's what was most obvious to me
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Apr 12, 2023 04:23
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If nothing else, it's a fun exercise to try and clear the map when you're restricted to Castle Age, and two of your enemies start there, complete with castle and unique units.
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Apr 12, 2023 05:09
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Now that we've met Teutonic Knights, we can go back to this topic.NewMars posted:As a note: the Franks unit being throwing axemen, a type of combatant that stopped existing a century or two before this campaign is a remnant of how AOE2 was originally a migration-era/fall of Rome game. Which means that the latest expansion brings that whole idea full circle, I suppose. So AoE2 spans Late Antiquity to Late Medieval. It begins with "Rome has fallen, the world is up for grabs" and each player controlling a Great Migrations tribe, because that supports the mini-4X fantasy of building an empire from nothing, same reason Age 1 starts at the end of Ice Age in 9000 BCE, and Age 3 was about colonies. For Throwing Axeman, even though "Britons", "Franks" and "Teutons" were an archaic-sounding alienation technique to dress up England, France and Germany, the devs drew more inspiration from the names than one'd expect - the Welsh Longbowmen were Brythonic Celts, the Teuton gameplay design was 100% based on the Teutonic Order, and the Franks were really supposed to synthesize French knights, Charlemagne and francisca axes. It stayed into the final release, because it's good design to give the "best knights" civ a complementary unique unit, rather than "knight but better". The other two UUs we've played are also wonky. - Braveheart wasn't the only influence on Celts and their Woad Raiders; they were conceived as one of 3 "Raider" factions alongside Mongols and Vikings, who play by different rules from regular civs, more "Gauls fighting Rome" than medieval. Instead of Celts, you might expect the Goths in that role, but no, 'em Goths always law-biding citizens. - The Mamelukes are notorious: they ride double-humped Bactrian camels from the east side of Eurasia (to distinguish them from normal Camel Riders), and their thrown scimitars are as aerodynamic as the Franks' chest-sized double-edged axes. The most plausible origin: they have passed down Morgan Freeman's secret technique that sent a scimitar whirling through air to save Kevin Costner. - They expand on the anti-horse cavalry, "opposite of Europeans" role of Camels and Saracens, based on classical accounts of horses disturbed by camel smell. Their naming may be influenced by the Battle of Ain Jalut, where Egypt's Mamluk dynasty defeated Hulagu Khan and stopped the Mongol advance into the southwest. - Historically, the Mamluks were part of a trend started in the Abbasid Caliphate, where Islamic rulers relied on slave soldiers as their fighting forces, typically of Turkic nomad origins. The Mamluk dynasty is what happens when these soldiers overthrew their master (namely Saladin's Ayyubid dynasty), and not the only example. cuc fucked around with this message at 17:43 on Apr 18, 2023 |
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Apr 12, 2023 07:19
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The narrator in this is laying on pretty thick how much more civilized the Saracens are, it's like I'm really watching Kingdom of Heaven. Not that I'm complaining, I like that the campaign actually makes no mystery of being biased accounts, and the previous two were also kind of like this though with a more proto-nationalistic/religious bent.
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Apr 12, 2023 07:25
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YaketySass posted:The narrator in this is laying on pretty thick how much more civilized the Saracens are, it's like I'm really watching Kingdom of Heaven. It is worth noting that by the start of the second mission, the narrator has been with the Saracens for 15 years, 20 years by mission 3.
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Apr 12, 2023 07:28
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YaketySass posted:The narrator in this is laying on pretty thick how much more civilized the Saracens are, it's like I'm really watching Kingdom of Heaven. The funny thing is that both this and the later KoH are really just heirs to centuries of weirdly positive portrayals of Saladin by Europeans, including by many of those who actually fought him. They really were just kind of stunned by the guy.
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Apr 12, 2023 10:12
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We have more talking points!Jossar posted:You have a maximum population limit of 75, which isn't a lot, although apparently Dynasties of India raised this limit. The Ensemble rules - 75 pop, Wonder & Relic victory enabled - have never been popular. The earliest AoE2 tournaments were played at 150 pop; the competitive scene soon settled into 200 pop Conquest. One of the consequences of the game being originally balanced for 75 pop is the frequent "Trash Wars" - the situation where players have exhausted all gold mines on the map, and can only keep spamming non-gold trash units. The community have simply embraced this as part of a match's natural lifecycle. quote:Then I destroy a small part of the wall to let my army out. In every Age game since AoK, there has been an on-screen skull button for deleting. AoE2DE has enhanced the feature with multi-delete and "Safe Delete" confirmation before killing important units, but inexplicably removed the on-screen button itself. 
cuc fucked around with this message at 18:27 on Apr 12, 2023 |
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Apr 12, 2023 12:06
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YaketySass posted:The narrator in this is laying on pretty thick how much more civilized the Saracens are, it's like I'm really watching Kingdom of Heaven. i think i've noted it earlier itt but i genuinely credit this campaign and the french one with helping me understand moral context so i have a very hard time disliking it
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Apr 12, 2023 12:11
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cuc posted:In the AoE1 expansion Rise of Rome, there's even a cool but impractical tech called Martyrdom that allows a player to instant-convert an enemy unit by deleting the converting Priest. I thought this was the coolest poo poo in the world as a kid, I'd send whole suicide squads of priests against the AI just for converting whatever they ran into.
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Apr 12, 2023 12:54
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The one tonally weird part is that the narration keeps going back and forth on whether the Saracens are just outright better than the Crusaders or whether the war has made them just as cruel. This scenario was about the latter, but we'll be switching to the former again soon enough.
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Apr 12, 2023 12:56
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