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A note or two. Jean Bureau, that Cannon hero that was worse than a regular bombard cannon. His stats being worse is particularly insulting, because a quick google search of him told me that apparently he is largely credited with making French Artillery among the most effective in the world in his time. Also, I don't think Reynald himself actually contributes as a hero unit; I think his hero unit is actually de-spawned after his little scene. He will show up later, though.
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Apr 11, 2023 18:38
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Doesn't excuse his range being shorter! Justice for Jean!
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Apr 11, 2023 21:01
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If nothing else, it's a fun exercise to try and clear the map when you're restricted to Castle Age, and two of your enemies start there, complete with castle and unique units.
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Apr 12, 2023 05:09
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YaketySass posted:The narrator in this is laying on pretty thick how much more civilized the Saracens are, it's like I'm really watching Kingdom of Heaven. It is worth noting that by the start of the second mission, the narrator has been with the Saracens for 15 years, 20 years by mission 3.
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Apr 12, 2023 07:28
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One fun thing to do when building defensive walls like was done here: leave an open gap. Even if entering that way will get them absolutely riddled with millions of arrows, the AI will always prefer to stream through a hole in your wall rather than batter open a new hole somewhere else. So you leave a hole, then focus your defenses there. A Castle or two (or three), and maybe some cavalry to deal with potential siege weapons, and such.
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Apr 13, 2023 02:15
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I will note that going on the offensive and wiping out all the enemies is a particularly lengthy but entertaining endeavor if you have the patience for it. As for the next campaign... I mean... hell with it, we've been going in order so far, let's keep that up. A.
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Apr 15, 2023 04:53
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One fun thing to do is to get a few monks out and steal any War Elephants the Persians send at you.
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Apr 19, 2023 04:01
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Jossar posted:I'm sure that there must be especially fiendish ways to turn the middle of the map into a deathtrap for the Bohemians, which might be necessary on higher difficulties. I've had a whoooole lot of fun turning the middle of the map into a giant defensive deathtrap. Walls to form a sort of maze, leaving an open gap but locating that gap at the end of a bit of a gauntlet... then place as many castles as I can fit in the area and/or afford, making sure not to finish them too quickly, so I can finish construction on them all in rapid succession. Keep a bunch of Mangudai or Light Cavalry around to charge out and deal with Siege Weapons. I enjoy my Overkill Defensive Murder Traps.
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Apr 20, 2023 03:20
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In my case, it's just a case of "Let's just go in order because that satisfies my OCD." To which end, A. Barbarossa next! But yeah, worth noting, this scenario does not let you build docks; there is water where you could build them, but the building is simply disabled. And while there is a path across the river other than the bridge, most of it is not actually crossable. Of note, Subotai's reinforcements consists of Subotai himself, two hunting wolves, and ten more saboteurs. In the Definitive Edition, five of the Saboteurs are replaced with Khans, a hero unit based on the Mangudai. Also, in the original game, the Hungarians were depicted as the Teutons, since the Magyars didn't exist in-game yet. It wasn't until the Definitive Edition that the teams started going back and adding new civs to old campaigns.
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Apr 21, 2023 01:54
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Further fun fact, actually. This was the first map to have ice terrain. It didn't technically exist in Age of Kings. And you can tell because units walking across it would make splashy footsteps; the ice is actually repainted shallows. Definitive Edition replaced it with proper ice terrain and adjusted the rest of the map to represent the chilly climate.
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Apr 21, 2023 19:05
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One thing that's kinda fun is to be actively prepared for Henry's betrayal ahead of time. Position a Ram or four by his castle before the betrayal. Maybe some Petards. The Castle is by far the biggest problem in his base, everything else is simple mop-up.
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Apr 22, 2023 19:37
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Fun fact: There is an achievement to beat this level without converting any villagers. It's tricky, and it needs a little bit of luck on the conversion speed, but it's doable.
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Apr 23, 2023 18:48
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I... did not know that there was a time-scripted trigger for Henry's betrayal here. I thought it was always as simple and clean as "Once you build a castle." I remember I went through this mission a few times just never building a castle... but instead rushing to, and building a crapload of Bombard Towers because it was funny.
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Apr 25, 2023 18:01
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Have they actually said that the original campaigns are not coming back, or have they simply not said that they are, and people are jumping to conclusions?
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Apr 26, 2023 01:26
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cncgnxcg posted:They also reworked all the other campaigns originating from the Forgotten in some way, which is for the better to be honest. Everything from the Forgotten originated in the fanmade mod of the same name and some of the campaigns were quite clunky in their original versions. It was definitely for the best that Definitive Edition reworked The Forgotten's campaigns. I appreciate what The Forgotten did in terms of opening the gates for new content for the 20 year old game... but holy crap, it was obvious that it was a fanmod and not made by a professional studio. A competently made fanmod, don't get me wrong, but a fanmod nonetheless. Official campaigns and Fan Campaigns have very different feels to them, and they very much felt like Fan Campaigns.
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Apr 26, 2023 18:37
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Worth noting, that "German Goats" Saladin line was in the original, but it was simply subtitled as "Saracens" instead. I suppose they wanted him to be a silent protagonist like most of the Age of Kings Campaign Main Characters (Genghis Khan was the only one with any spoken lines), but speaking campaign protagonists became a thing later, so I guess they went "screw it". As a note, Richard the Lionheart got a huge upgrade in Definitive Edition. In the original game, he was just a Trebuchet, some Longbowmen, and a few cavalry units (and I think an actual Richard the Lionhearted hero unit, but I may be wrong), but he had no base, and thus just threw himself uselessly at a wall and castle and died horribly. Now he has a full-on base and is helpful, and even makes a market for you to trade with. Saladin isn't really aggressive, but he does rather aggressively defend his area; he's just generally kept busy by Richard now. As for Jerusalem, they didn't originally have ANY units, just the structures and some towers. Jerusalem will now actually resist your attempts to move in, now.
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Apr 27, 2023 05:13
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Worth noting, defending against Berengeur from the North can get extra spicy because his defensive line of towers is uncomfortably close to the front, and all too often you'll have to dive into range of his towers to take out his Siege Weapons.
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May 12, 2023 13:42
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Cythereal posted:B. Alaric Seconding this. B. Alaric. It's a fun campaign, and getting Ye Olde Goth Flood going is always hilarious.
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May 13, 2023 03:30
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One detail I want to point out. In all the campaign maps, there is the objectives window. It does what you think it does, but also has a tab for "Hints" which are specific to the mission and generally helpful to read, and also a "Scouts" tab which gives you a general idea of where people are and what sort of units they'll focus on. The Scouts tab for this mission states that Ataulf, once he is strong enough, will deploy, and I quote, "the typical flood of infantry that the Goths are known for". That phrasing just tickles me considering how often the term "Goth Flood" is used to describe their gameplan.
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May 19, 2023 03:54
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With the way Alaric's campaign here ends? There's no question. Going to A. Attila next just fits way too perfectly.
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May 20, 2023 19:36
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I do appreciate how many ways there are to approach the first part of this mission.
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May 21, 2023 23:37
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Fun fact for dealing with the castle that Younger Me never realized, if for some reason you want to go for that instead of just taking out the town center: Dyrrhachium doesn't have Murder Holes researched on Standard Difficulty. They do research Murder Holes on Moderate Difficulty or higher, though.
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May 23, 2023 13:18
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I always did love that just getting CLOSE to the wonder is enough to make the guy sound more panicked than any other time in the map, and pay out a bunch more.
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May 24, 2023 13:19
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Of note: originally, those Legionaries and Centurions were Champions and Elite Cataphracts, the Byzantine unique unit. The Forgotten Expansion introduced a custom Centurion and Legionary unit that was editor-only and very similar to what became the Romans' unique units in Return of Rome, specifically for use in custom scenarios or campaigns that involved Roman forces, but I don't remember if the Definitive Edition used those here before Return of Rome or not.
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May 25, 2023 03:05
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Random note: before the Definitive Edition, the Alans were represented by Vikings instead of the Huns.cncgnxcg posted:I'm not sure if this was fixed or not, but there is an exploit to skip the fight against the romans; before defeating Orleans, you block of their spawn location with buildings, which means they can't appear and will resign almost immediately. Oh, also, regarding this: I believe the spawn location of the Roman Troops was made unbuildable, and the hidden unit over in the trees was replaced with some sort of invisible object to prevent this kind of cheese. BlazetheInferno fucked around with this message at 13:26 on May 26, 2023 |
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May 26, 2023 13:07
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Definitely the original voice actor, combined with that ghoulish grin in the art that sells it best. The replacement voice and art in DE just doesn't measure up, sadly. I feel the same way about the William Wallace campaign's narrator. The original had something special that just isn't there in the new Definitive Edition voice. As an aside, it's worth remembering that Verona's represented by the Franks, making those paladins they flood at you all the more dangerous. Patavium hiding a second Town Center inside Verona is mean. Let's get the last Conquerors Campaign out of the way, I say: let's go with A. Montezuma.
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May 26, 2023 17:20
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Worth noting, the Xolotl Warrior is statistically identical to a Knight. But since the Aztecs lack any cavalry-related techs, they don't get any upgrades. Also, it is actually possible to build Xolotl Warriors in random map games. If an Aztec or Inca player converts an enemy stable, they will be able to use it to train Xolotl Warriors (same cost as a Knight), though Mayans lack the tech to convert buildings. However, all three civs can also potentially receive a starting stable depending on the map type. Interestingly, in Post-Imperial Starting Age games, the Xolotl Warrior gets a few stat buffs to HP, damage, and armor, putting them roughly on par with a Cavalier. But from what I can see, this is the ONLY time they get this buff.
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Jun 1, 2023 02:06
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I was re-watching part of Hellsing Ultimate Abridged lately, so I'm in the mood for B. Vlad Dracula
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Jun 2, 2023 01:47
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Yeah, any time an AI Ally is sloooowly building a wonder, at worst you'll have to wait out the Wonder Victory timer. Sometimes, you don't even have to wait for that, and the scenario'll just end as soon as the Wonder goes up. I don't think you ever have to go on the offensive after an Ally builds wonder.
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Jun 4, 2023 16:00
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The Dracula campaign definitely felt more gimmicky and RPG-like than it does in the rework. There's one plot detail late in the campaign that was lost in Definitive Edition that I'm sad about, but otherwise, it's not so bad.
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Jun 10, 2023 19:37
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I have no opinion on the next campaign, but it's worth noting that in the original campaign, those original three Voivods you assisted in the first mission have more of a presence throughout the campaign - and one of them is indeed Istvan, the guy who goes on to be the Host in the original version. I like to think that it's still him here, despite them giving no such hints in this version. EDIT: vvv Same, lol BlazetheInferno fucked around with this message at 03:03 on Jun 15, 2023 |
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Jun 15, 2023 02:57
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This mission is just hectic. The fact that you are under constant pressure of that ticking clock combined with the aggression of the AIs is a harsh dose of intimidation.
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Jun 28, 2023 02:12
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Less epic in scale, absolutely, but the very nature of the map and its trigger-based progressions, as you said, made it prone to becoming very buggy, and it was dangerously easy to sequence-break in a way that just broke everything and made the map unplayable. One of the maps that made it abundantly clear that The Forgotten was originally a fanmod that was picked up as an official product, and not the same level of Professional Development as other expansions.
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Jul 6, 2023 15:18
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Fun fact, the original version of this map instead featured Tairo no Kiyomori as the final target, who died two years before this battle takes place. Kiyomori would also go on to feature in the second Warriors Orochi game as a major antagonist.
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Jul 8, 2023 15:40
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anilEhilated posted:Kind of a wasted opportunity to not end it at Tours, honestly. I understand they don't really want you to play the losing side but campaign just feels unfinished. Keep in mind, by the time this came out, the scenario Tours as the Franks had been in the game for a while. I feel like that ending was written with an unspoken expectation that the player had probably already played that scenario and knows how this is about to go.
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Jul 28, 2023 20:58
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Fun fact, the terrain of this particular map was modeled after the second mission of the Rise of Rome campaign in Age of Empires 1, just with a few more islands in the bay. That map featured the player fighting against Pyrrhus of Epirus.
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Sep 3, 2023 15:24
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I honestly remember questioning why I was helping the Hungarians in the first half of the mission before that event triggered, and I realized that despite being in the Mission Opening, my forces hadn't actually been TOLD about Kotyan's murder yet.
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Dec 10, 2023 14:56
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You say "Tamerlane has been fighting for a while and must be tired, now is the time to strike" I say "Tamerlane has MOMENTUM going and his forces are riding the high of multiple back-to-back victories"
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Jan 7, 2024 22:44
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It's a fun twist to the start of a level; get your mind into the mission before starting into the usual Build Em Up gameplay, and once the segment's over, you get a nice gift of some starting castles. I enjoyed it.
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Jan 30, 2024 03:04
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NewMars posted:So the english campaign ends with you failing to really do much besides steal a national treasure. Ah, how uplifting. Still, neat, even if the longbow pretty much their only defining thing, gameplay wise. I mean, you do also kill William Wallace, and teach the people who only learned his story via the Tutorial campaign that... no, no he did not get as happy an ending as that tutorial made it sound.
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Feb 24, 2024 16:32
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