Israel is having a time

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Nooner: Mar 26, 2011; AN A+ OPSTER (:

# ? Mar 27, 2023 14:25

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# ? May 10, 2024 19:19

EvilJoven: Mar 18, 2005; NOBODY,IN THE HISTORY OF EVER, HAS ASKED OR CARED WHAT CANADA THINKS. YOU ARE NOT A COUNTRY. YOUR MONEY HAS THE QUEEN OF ENGLAND ON IT. IF YOU DIG AROUND IN YOUR BACKYARD, NATIVE SKELETONS WOULD EXPLODE OUT OF YOUR LAWN LIKE THE END OF POLTERGEIST. CANADA IS SO POLITE, EH?; Fun Shoe

Are the protestors for not being lovely to every country they share a border with, or for escalating their shittyness? That's my sole determining factor for giving a poo poo one way or another.

# ? Mar 27, 2023 14:28

Nelson Mandingo: Mar 27, 2005

Seth Pecksniff posted:

Saying that the ~MAINSTREAM MEDIA~ isn't covering a world altering event is absolutely disingenuous. Bring married to a recovering journalist and having seen her editors spike stories due to space or whatever that most of us would have kept going, saying that does a real disservice to the actual stories that aren't being covered.

Likewise, I feel like the idea that I'm somehow doing a right wing "I AM BEING SILENCED!" (on the front page of the newspaper) type spiel is also disengenous. I merely pointed out that much like the muted coverage of the french protests, at time of writing (and so far) there wasn't a tremendous selection of "mainstream" news coverage on a variety of networks when both situations are potentially history-book defining moments and rightfully deserves the spot on the front page. Perhaps if I had more nuance in the original post there wouldn't be so much pushback. After all I expected the AP and Reuters for instance for being on it. As they're actual journalistic enterprises.

People realizing they can do general strikes or mass protests as a successful pressure tactic is something I think these large monied interests are very much in favor of avoiding putting the idea into peoples heads and I don't think that's an extreme or controversial suggestion to make.

Nelson Mandingo fucked around with this message at 14:41 on Mar 27, 2023

# ? Mar 27, 2023 14:33

Randarkman: Jul 18, 2011

Nelson Mandingo posted:

People realizing they can do general strikes or mass protests as a successful pressure tactic is something I think these large monied interests are very much in favor of avoiding putting the idea into peoples heads and I don't think that's an extreme or controversial suggestion to make.

It's an extremely dumb conspiratorial take.

# ? Mar 27, 2023 14:39

Seth Pecksniff: May 27, 2004; can't believe shrek is fucking dead. rip to a real one.

Nelson Mandingo posted:

Likewise, I feel like the idea that I'm somehow doing a right wing "I AM BEING SILENCED!" (on the front page of the newspaper) type spiel is also disengenous. I merely pointed out that much like the muted coverage of the french protests, at time of writing (and so far) there wasn't a tremendous selection of "mainstream" news coverage on a variety of networks when both situations are potentially history-book defining moments and rightfully deserves the spot on the front page. Perhaps if I had more nuance in the original post there wouldn't be so much pushback. After all I expected the AP and Reuters for instance for being on it. As they're actual journalistic enterprises.

People realizing they can do general strikes or mass protests as a successful pressure tactic is something I think these large monied interests are very much in favor of avoiding putting the idea into peoples heads and I don't think that's an extreme or controversial suggestion to make.

Sorry if I came off harsh - having seen leftist spaces do this for absolutely everything that happens in the world (basically complaining their favorite cause isn't front page news on CNN), seeing that phrase standing on its own without a nuanced explanation just annoys the hell out of me

# ? Mar 27, 2023 14:39

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

https://i.imgur.com/6iKMdVb.mp4

# ? Mar 27, 2023 14:41

Randarkman: Jul 18, 2011

EvilJoven posted:

Are the protestors for not being lovely to every country they share a border with, or for escalating their shittyness? That's my sole determining factor for giving a poo poo one way or another.

I don't think it really enters into it directly. Indirectly in that one of the arguments being raised is that Netanyahu and his supporters in pushing through this law are endangering Israel's security and readiness, and also in that Likud and its allies are far more likely to be utter assholes than most other political constellations in Israel.

# ? Mar 27, 2023 14:42

Ratjaculation: Aug 3, 2007

BigBadSteve posted:

A racist comment, since many Israelis would care about Palestinians. But as with citizens of other countries, there are rarely, if ever, huge protests about the maltreatment of others. it takes something like a serious risk to democracy itself to get that many people on the street, i.e. extreme danger to oneself and to one's immediate family members etc. (loved ones). Numbers at other protests worldwide generally top out in the tens of thousands, and that's for pretty big ones,rather than hundreds of thousands, as here.

And of course there are literal thousands of years of bad blood between Jews and Arabs. Many of them do absolutely hate each other. Each "side" has members commit murder, and other acts of violence, on the reg., and many on each side support it.

And IMO, unlike the good versions of Christianity, Buddhism etc,, neither side is huge on forgiveness. Without an overarching philosophy of forgiveness, people of each side would literally have to accept their close friends and beloved family members being murdered and maimed, over and over again, for perhaps decades after any official "truce". And not react (i.e. not support trying to "get even"). And no, the end of "religion", which will never happen anyway without murdering billions, deal with it atheists, would not fix it, look at, e.g., the Chinese Communist Party's human rights history, ffs.

It's all, of course, a very nasty business, and I, like you, sure wish there was some easy solution.

Because Israelis supporting (a very difficult) peace don't much make the News, it doesn't mean they're don't exist, or are not taking steps. Over the years I've opposed many of my (Australia's) leaders decisions. I've taken action a number of times (though personally I do wish I'd taken more). And (also, for instance) any U.S. citizen who does nothing about their governments' worst excesses is in effect supporting the likes of Trump, who may well cause the literal end democracy there, if he gets another term.

I don't bother protesting much when the Right us in power here, because (1) They (leaders and rightwing media) don't give a poo poo, and (2) They use any bad street protester behavior as propaganda for their own cause. And there's always a minority at large protests who do behave badly.

tldr: So I'm not the only one here with a TV-age attention span, hunh, at least I'm not on your ignore list, it appears.

where's the racism?

# ? Mar 27, 2023 14:46

Roblo: Dec 10, 2007; I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

EvilJoven posted:

Are the protestors for not being lovely to every country they share a border with, or for escalating their shittyness? That's my sole determining factor for giving a poo poo one way or another.

I'm sure some/a good proportion of the protestors are for not being lovely to neighbours. You can sure that the people who want to escalate are the ones not protesting.

# ? Mar 27, 2023 14:48

GolfHole: Feb 26, 2004

kiminewt posted:

So.. Bibi promptly fired him, and that was the casus-belli for this round (basically they're saying "Bibi doesn't even care about the security of the country as long as he can get his reform passed and avoid jailtime).

between an autocracy and a hard junta

# ? Mar 27, 2023 14:58

naem: May 29, 2011

why is every almost every country struggling with dictator wannabes right now

# ? Mar 27, 2023 14:59

Nooner: Mar 26, 2011; AN A+ OPSTER (:

BECAUSE YOU TOUCH YORUSELF AT NIGHT!!! XD

# ? Mar 27, 2023 15:00

search engine: Jun 16, 2020

naem posted:

why is every almost every country struggling with dictator wannabes right now

nearly every country everywhere has been perpetually struggling with that throughout all of history. this is just getting back to the historical status quo after a slight record skip in the late 1900s

# ? Mar 27, 2023 15:06

Seth Pecksniff: May 27, 2004; can't believe shrek is fucking dead. rip to a real one.

naem posted:

why is every almost every country struggling with dictator wannabes right now

They're appealing because poo poo is breaking down and people want a quick fix

Democracy works when people are happy, content and their lives have meaning. In the US alone, housing is breaking down, income inequality is rocketing upwards, wages have been stagnant for anyone below the ultra rich for like 30 years, the education system is crumbling, the social support net is faltering, climate change is wreaking havoc everywhere and nothing seems like it's working, including our government who would rather harass trans people than fix what's broken

People want someone to come in and fix all that by fiat and not deal with bullshit like compromise, and they'll worry about the rest later. Authoritarians thrive on this, especially where chaos is concerned

# ? Mar 27, 2023 15:08

Bad Purchase: Jun 17, 2019

didn't they elect a dictator? and now they're surprised they have a dictator? what gives?

# ? Mar 27, 2023 15:09

naem: May 29, 2011

search engine posted:

nearly every country everywhere has been perpetually struggling with that throughout all of history. this is just getting back to the historical status quo after a slight record skip in the late 1900s

# ? Mar 27, 2023 15:10

EvilJoven: Mar 18, 2005; NOBODY,IN THE HISTORY OF EVER, HAS ASKED OR CARED WHAT CANADA THINKS. YOU ARE NOT A COUNTRY. YOUR MONEY HAS THE QUEEN OF ENGLAND ON IT. IF YOU DIG AROUND IN YOUR BACKYARD, NATIVE SKELETONS WOULD EXPLODE OUT OF YOUR LAWN LIKE THE END OF POLTERGEIST. CANADA IS SO POLITE, EH?; Fun Shoe

naem posted:

why is every almost every country struggling with dictator wannabes right now

The only two schools of thought that our society has allowed to flourish in our entire lifetime has been business centric wealth serving right wing autocratic thinking relying on people's ability to support cruelty and selfishness when pressed to gain control of the political process... And business centric wealth serving autocratic centrist thinking that pays lip service to people's desire for cooperation and mutual support to gain control of the political process

Both schools of thought inevitably lead to the same decline of the social safety net increased wealth disparity poverty violence and death.

Those conditions support the rise of fascism.

We keep flipping between the good cop and the bad cop because we're too dumb to realize they're both loving cops.

# ? Mar 27, 2023 15:18

GolfHole: Feb 26, 2004

naem posted:

why is every almost every country struggling with dictator wannabes right now

the world is marching to war, op

# ? Mar 27, 2023 15:46

The Management: Jan 2, 2010; sup, bitch?

naem posted:

why is every almost every country struggling with dictator wannabes right now

Democracies falter when the population is not ideologically committed to preserving it. cynicism, apathy, uneducated electorate, inability to compromise, and deepening divisions allow it to crumble. We should be heartened at this Israeli protest, they are showing that they will not accept this.

# ? Mar 27, 2023 16:56

Jimlit: Jun 30, 2005

The Management posted:

We should be heartened at this Israeli protest, they are showing that they will not accept this.

Pretty much this. It's in no way negating the reprehensible policies it practices but it definitely is a net positive for their democracy being able to check itself. Netanyahu with legal and political immunity would be a bigger nightmare than he is right now.

# ? Mar 27, 2023 17:04

Saalkin: Jun 29, 2008

I hope something bad happens to Bibi

# ? Mar 27, 2023 17:07

Mozi: Apr 4, 2004; Forms change so fast
Time is moving past
Memory is smoke
Gonna get wider when I die; Nap Ghost

yeah but somehow he's lasted this long so it's hard to count him out as much as i'm hoping

# ? Mar 27, 2023 17:13

Chinatown: Sep 11, 2001; by Fluffdaddy; Fun Shoe

this netinyahoo dudes a real piece of poo poo IMO

# ? Mar 27, 2023 17:17

a pipe smoking dog: Jan 25, 2010; "haha, dogs can't smoke!"

Impressive that the deal Bibi has agreed to delay the judiciary bill involves the even more fascist move of giving the far right a "national guard" independent of the military and under the direct command of Ben Gvir.

Can't imagine the powers that be in the Israeli security state are going to be placated with that one.

# ? Mar 27, 2023 17:18

WAR CRIME GIGOLO: Oct 3, 2012; The Hague
tryna get me
for these glutes

Chinatown posted:

this netinyahoo dudes a real piece of poo poo IMO

HES ALIVE!

# ? Mar 27, 2023 17:18

ReelBigLizard: Feb 27, 2003; Fallen Rib

EvilJoven posted:

The only two schools of thought that our society has allowed to flourish in our entire lifetime has been business centric wealth serving right wing autocratic thinking relying on people's ability to support cruelty and selfishness when pressed to gain control of the political process... And business centric wealth serving autocratic centrist thinking that pays lip service to people's desire for cooperation and mutual support to gain control of the political process

Both schools of thought inevitably lead to the same decline of the social safety net increased wealth disparity poverty violence and death.

Those conditions support the rise of fascism.

We keep flipping between the good cop and the bad cop because we're too dumb to realize they're both loving cops.

Don't forget the rampant entryism of the centrist and centrist right into the supposed left wing parties leaving them decorum-poisoned rotten husks.

# ? Mar 27, 2023 17:26

Strategic Tea: Sep 1, 2012

More like Netandoodoo

# ? Mar 27, 2023 17:59

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

a pipe smoking dog posted:

Impressive that the deal Bibi has agreed to delay the judiciary bill involves the even more fascist move of giving the far right a "national guard" independent of the military and under the direct command of Ben Gvir.

what the gently caress :lmao:

# ? Mar 27, 2023 19:00

Lodo: May 9, 2006; Actually a cow.

Nelson Mandingo posted:

�I merely pointed out that much like the muted coverage of the french protests, at time of writing (and so far) there wasn't a tremendous selection of "mainstream" news coverage on a variety of networks when both situations are potentially history-book defining moments and�

No worries, there�s nothing historic going on in France. They do this every year.

# ? Mar 27, 2023 19:06

Robo Reagan: Feb 12, 2012; by Fluffdaddy

i guess you could say things israely not looking good

# ? Mar 27, 2023 19:16

Dapper_Swindler: Feb 14, 2012; Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

Lodo posted:

No worries, there�s nothing historic going on in France. They do this every year.

thats what i have read. poo poo like this happens a couple times a year and unless they are like dragging macron out and ripping him apart or something, then it will be worth some news.

Bad Purchase posted:

didn't they elect a dictator? and now they're surprised they have a dictator? what gives?

sorta. basicaly israel has been heading hard right since rabin got murdered. and basicaly all thats left that has anypower is the uber fundimentalist orthadox types who want societal gender segregation amongst other poo poo. and the normal hard right dicks who just want to be hard right dicks and focus on palestinians or other groups(orthadox dont like them either) bibi is a corrupt piece of poo poo who keeps making insane allainces and the last one has been with basicaly the worst hardest right of both factions and since that poo poo actually affects citizens(palestians don't count) that set poo poo off.

obviously shits more complicated then that and i dont live there.

Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 19:24 on Mar 27, 2023

# ? Mar 27, 2023 19:22

DGP Space Lion: Oct 10, 2012; Welcome to Goa, Singham

Just got back from the protest (which is still ongoing) after spending most of my single vacation day doomscrolling in bed.

Once again the streets are full of people, they are not exactly pleased with the whole "Let's give the former terrorist his own private militia" thing. Currently Netanyahu says that he'll wait until the end of July and try to reach a compromise but nobody actually believes him. I'm tired and scared and hopeful at the same time.

There were a few counter-protesters with Likud flags yelling various threats but mostly looking dejected. I heard that there was a bigger counter-protest in Jerusalem but still relatively small.

I've met some friends I haven't seen in a while and we talked about what we'll do if the protests fail. We don't want to leave but we have no idea if we can stay here after all of this mess. I don't really plan on fighting to death or anything but I don't have anywhere else to go to.

Also my older brother who was mostly neutral politically suddenly shifted to the right which caused an awkward family lunch a few weeks ago, I haven't seen him since and I don't want things to get weird between us.

I think I'll get off twitter for a while and try some meditation and try to focus again, I have to work a lot tomorrow and I'm a wreck. Hopefully something good will happen soon...