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Veryslightlymad
Jun 3, 2007

I fight with
my brain
and with an
underlying
hatred of the
Erebonian
Noble Faction
I'm more distressed that so many people believe in the lie of hard work than I am in any decline of any other dubious personal value.

Those were the only values they even bothered to ask about? I don't know how to feel about that. "Like I don't belong here," I guess.

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Veryslightlymad
Jun 3, 2007

I fight with
my brain
and with an
underlying
hatred of the
Erebonian
Noble Faction

Mellow Seas posted:

I mean hard work itself isn't a "lie," hard work often accomplishes worthwhile things that could not have been accomplished otherwise. All else being equal (all else is not equal), you'd rather have a society of hard workers than one where people are more lackadaisical.

Oh boy, there are a bunch of lies about hard work, though. A few of them:

- That hard work is an unmitigated good that does not create its own personal and social ills
- That hard work is always worthwhile
- That hard work is a prerequisite for deserving respect
- That one's financial status is a reflection of how hard they've worked
- (The biggest, in the US) That hard work is consistently rewarded, or insulates you from disaster

I largely agree.

But keep in mind, this is hard work within the context of the United States, which already works too goddamn hard.

Put another way, some of the happiest countries in the world have either a smaller work week, or a less large work week. Finland repeatedly places at or near the top of the list over and over for overall happiness. I have to assume at least part of that is rarely hitting the 50 hour mark.

Zotix posted:

They are reporting at this time 3 children have died. This is about 15 minutes from where I live. Fortunately I don't have kids, nor do I plan to. But the community was already talking about it when I got out of the gym and stopped at a store on the way home.

This is how common this is now, that it's not even the top story on CNNs home page. Everyone is just so desensitized to it.

Blef. Going into work/walking around East Lansing after the whole thing at MSU was downright morose. Even if it doesn't touch you personally, it's jarring when it happens close enough to home. I hate how common this is.

Veryslightlymad
Jun 3, 2007

I fight with
my brain
and with an
underlying
hatred of the
Erebonian
Noble Faction
Giving it some consideration, most of the things I well and truly hated about school were the deeply conservative parts, or the sorts of things conservatives seem to believe are OK. So it hurts me to hear they're were able to weasel into a lot of school boards even as they failed to meet their expectations elsewhere.

Those bastards have no place near children. Anywhere.

Veryslightlymad
Jun 3, 2007

I fight with
my brain
and with an
underlying
hatred of the
Erebonian
Noble Faction
Going from an absolutely miserable childhood of fairly horrible peer abuse to college, where nobody cared to moderate, to being employed was jarring.

Every company I have worked for has had a mandatory "this will not be tolerated" video you have to watch every single year, that clearly spells out what you'll lose if you're a piece of poo poo, and who to go to for protection if someone is being a piece of poo poo, and that's like, sure it's great, but it just reminded me how hosed it is that children aren't afforded the same protection as adults, who ostensibly are more able to protect themselves.

Veryslightlymad
Jun 3, 2007

I fight with
my brain
and with an
underlying
hatred of the
Erebonian
Noble Faction
Gonna toss this one out there as a probable reason for pedestrian death increases since 2010:

Smart phone proliferation. As a lifetime pedestrian and disabled person, I have picked up some common sense and personal rules when it comes to dealing with drivers, all of whom are stupid, which, to be fair, I am sure is how drivers see myself, other pedestrians and also all other drivers.

Even if I have a light and the right of way, I absolutely do not cross near drivers unless I am certain they see me. I signal them with intent when I am going to move. If I can't get eye contact on that, I don't move.

This is a rule I made after a few close scrapes. Most pedestrians don't do this. They just go when they have a light, and often if they don't if they think traffic isn't bad enough.

Smart phones started exploding in ownership right around 2010 if I had to guess a rough year. I'm willing to bet that correlates. Pedestrians are killed when they're not noticed.

I do not think punitive measures against distracted driving are the answer to saving lives. As far as what can be done... I would like other pedestrians to adopt hand signaling and eye contact like how I do. This should be taught to kids early, and should probably be reiterated during Driver's Ed.

I also think a big difference could be made by requiring a low light headlight always be on. From the driver's perspective, that doesn't matter too much, but as a pedestrian, I can say that a white or grey or light blue vehicle with its lights off on a modestly overcast day may as well be invisible, and making cars run with less noise only makes their distance harder to judge. Having front facing lights mitigates this issue almost entirely.

Veryslightlymad
Jun 3, 2007

I fight with
my brain
and with an
underlying
hatred of the
Erebonian
Noble Faction
I'll chip into that discussion to state that it's impossible in much of/most of the country anyhow. I live in a public transit friendly city now, but I grew up in a rural community with fewer than 300 people. Ain't no bus route that'd work if I still lived there.

Veryslightlymad
Jun 3, 2007

I fight with
my brain
and with an
underlying
hatred of the
Erebonian
Noble Faction
Results don't really surprise me except for a few:

The near-third of a men being uncomfortable with pink just feels wrong. I dunno if I knew anyone after high school who balked at pink, and quite a few who actively look for it.

The sharing a bed thing also feels weirdly high, but I figure there's spacial considerations to take into account. Like, I'm not uncomfortable with it, but I'm also something like 5'6, and weigh less than 150 pounds. If I were 6'4, 200ish... ehhhh. I wouldn't want to share a bed with another me.

I'm a little disappointed it didn't bring up what percentage of men would be uncomfortable sharing a bed with a platonic female friend. Because, for me, that would be much more uncomfortable than a male friend.

I'd be similarly interested what the numbers are for crying in front of the opposite gender and how that compares to crying in front of the same gender. For both genders.

I also have doubts that women's issue with public changing rooms is necessarily entirely due to discomfort with being nude in front of other women, and more with the changing rooms being public. If even one person at some place like the gym makes you feel uncomfortable, even a little bit, are you gonna get naked anywhere without a lock?

Veryslightlymad
Jun 3, 2007

I fight with
my brain
and with an
underlying
hatred of the
Erebonian
Noble Faction

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

It's almost sad how "real angry about immigration, for some reason" is one of those leading indicators for "consumes too much right wing media", like tardive dyskenesia for people who've taken too many antipsychotics.

Immigration is a solution not a problem.

This might be inverting cause and effect, here.

Veryslightlymad
Jun 3, 2007

I fight with
my brain
and with an
underlying
hatred of the
Erebonian
Noble Faction
I'mma let y'all in on the secret of the universe:

Everyone, everywhere, is trying as hard as they possibly can, and no one wants to believe anyone else, let alone everyone else, is also trying as hard as they possibly can.

Kchama posted:

So is the answer 'don't criticize white people in public', then? Because if these are the kinds of articles that push young white men to extremist groups, then they were already headed to those extremist groups.

It's interesting that we don't have to worry about young black men being pushed towards extremism or anything. Just young white men.

Check out this guy who's never followed Kyrie Irving's twitter feed.

Radicalized young black men are just much less of an issue because 1)There are far fewer young black men to radicalize than young white men. 2)Not all radicals are necessarily conservative. You might agree with enough of their politics to look the other way when they do an antisemitism. Conservatism tends to at least on some level be about preserving the status quo, which has much less incentive for folks who have had a few centuries of sediment piling up. 3)That centuries-long buildup also means less real power to exert on assorted terrorism.

Systemic racism or sexism or both is a big, ugly knot that wraps in on itself and feeds itself and sometimes it's hard to untangle all its problems because it's covering its own rear end.

There is absolutely rhetoric on the left that suggests that when a white man doesn't succeed, then he's a failure, but if someone else doesn't succeed, they were failed. We, humans, have all been failed. The power structures that people attribute to white men is something that the vast majority never had in the first place, and will never get within spitting distance of in their lifetimes.

But it's also true that there are, by and large, either fewer or perhaps less immediately debilitating negatives that white men face on average, and the absence of a negative is a much more difficult thing to try to explain. If you've never had a broken bone, can you describe to me what not having a broken bone feels like? And if you receive a cutting wound across your chest, and someone says "Well that guy over there really has it bad, he's got broken bones," how are you supposed to buy into that being worse when you're unable to have a frame of reference?

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Veryslightlymad
Jun 3, 2007

I fight with
my brain
and with an
underlying
hatred of the
Erebonian
Noble Faction
When we're children, and solipsistic little sociopaths, in their quest to make us into anything other than a solipsistic little sociopath and learn human compassion, the adults of the times teach us the lesser virtue of empathy. To truly have compassion for another person–we are taught–we must first be able to understand them. "Walk a mile in their shoes". And so we begin the long, terrible nightmare that is the realization that every other poor bastard out there has just as many thoughts as we do. But for a lot of us, this line of thinking is the beginning and the end of our education in human compassion. For some, our education never even gets to that point. But for those who have, empathy is generally used as a crutch for how we approach whether we can be compassionate to others, and thus, empathy, or rather, our over-reliance on it, is one of the major causes of all human suffering.

And I am not making GBS threads on empathy. Empathy is crazy important. But it is a lesser virtue to compassion, and when we become adults we have to be taught by some means or another that it's not the only path to compassion, nor is it necessarily the best path. Because the simple fact of the matter is empathy is limited in its scope and there are significant parts of another person's life–most of their life in fact–that we will never, ever be able to understand. And when the only tool we have to find the truth of compassion is empathy, it is perhaps tragically inevitable that those we cannot empathize with become first the other, and then the adversary.

People become radicalized because the only way they have been taught to feel for other human beings is to understand them. And tribalism is a natural result from people more broadly like you being able to more immediately relate to you. As people we have a driving need to relate to others, we have a need for socialization we have a need to belong and feel valued. If all you have in your toolbox is empathy, what hope do you have of not being radicalized, when it is both true that only your tribe will ever understand your pain, and you will never be able to understand the other tribe's pain, no matter how hard you try. To those that get caught up in this radicalization, it is never first about being an rear end in a top hat or having a right to be an rear end in a top hat, it is about having a right to feel anything at all.

We fail to teach developing minds–and adult minds for that matter–that there's other ways toward building compassion. Trust is a thing that never gets properly understood. At some point in a person's life, they need to come to the realization that, because another person's life and mind are intrinsically different than their own, it must then follow that their behavior must be different, as well. At some point we must take a leap of faith that the person we'll never understand is not fated to be our enemy. That, even though they may not be our equal, they are not less, they are not more, they merely are. That it is safe and it is ok to not comprehend their reality and that they will in turn never comprehend our own. Failing to get to this point ultimately just winds up with something like fascism. An ever tightening noose where we slowly expel those least like us until we wind up in the same horrifying place we all started, alone and alone. Either totally empty of love or once again a solipsistic little poo poo.

The corollary to understanding being the only way most people comprehend compassion is the intrinsic horror that comes with feeling totally alone and unloved when confronted by the hard truth that no one will ever understand you. If you cannot embrace and accept this as the basic nature of the universe, you will one day find nowhere else to turn but hate. If the only way to love someone is to understand them, and no one will ever understand you, then you inevitably believe you'll never be loved. Until you've found another tool, you're in a bad spot.


The current worrying trend with regards to young white men is the same as every other social conflict throughout the history of human civilization. Any person who could definitively solve it could apply the same reasoning forward and eventually achieve global peace.

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