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Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009

YOU CAN TRUST ME!*


*Israeli Government-affiliated poster
According to the WSJ's new poll, Americans are basically becoming a nation of hard-working feminist nihilists who don't value anything else.

The only values that a solid majority of Americans still say is "very important" to them is "hard work" and "promoting equality between men and women."

Religion, community involvement, patriotism, making money, businesses/schools promoting racial equality, promoting transgender acceptance in society, and promoting gender-neutral pronouns all have less than half of Americans considering them "very important" values.

"Making money" is the only value that has grown in importance since 1998, but it still is only important to a minority of Americans.

The only value that most Americans agreed on as one that unites the country is that economic opportunity and hard work can improve your life.



quote:

Americans Pull Back From Values That Once Defined U.S., WSJ-NORC Poll Finds

Patriotism, religious faith, having children and other priorities that helped define the national character for generations are receding in importance to Americans, a new Wall Street Journal-NORC poll finds.

The survey, conducted with NORC at the University of Chicago, a nonpartisan research organization, also finds the country sharply divided by political party over social trends such as the push for racial diversity in businesses and the use of gender-neutral pronouns.

Some 38% of respondents said patriotism was very important to them, and 39% said religion was very important. That was down sharply from when the Journal first asked the question in 1998, when 70% deemed patriotism to be very important, and 62% said so of religion.

The share of Americans who say that having children, involvement in their community and hard work are very important values has also fallen. Tolerance for others, deemed very important by 80% of Americans as recently as four years ago, has fallen to 58% since then.

Bill McInturff, a pollster who worked on a previous Journal survey that measured these attitudes along with NBC News, said that “these differences are so dramatic, it paints a new and surprising portrait of a changing America.’’ He surmised that “perhaps the toll of our political division, Covid and the lowest economic confidence in decades is having a startling effect on our core values.’’

A number of events have shaken and in some ways fractured the nation since the Journal first asked about unifying values, among them the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, the financial crisis of 2008 and subsequent economic downturn and the rise of former President Donald Trump.

The only priority the Journal tested that has grown in importance in the past quarter-century is money, which was cited as very important by 43% in the new survey, up from 31% in 1998.

Aside from money, all age groups, including seniors, attached far less importance to these priorities and values than when pollsters asked about them in 1998 and 2019. But younger Americans in particular place low importance on these values, many of which were central to the lives of their parents.

Some 23% of adults under age 30 said in the new survey that patriotism was very important to them personally, compared with 59% of seniors ages 65 or older. Some 31% of younger respondents said that religion was very important to them, compared with 55% among seniors.

Only 23% of adults under age 30 said that having children was very important.

To Kevin Williams, a commercial and residential painter in Bend, Ore., many of these values are linked. Mr. Williams, 33 years old, said he thought that patriotism is declining as a civic value in tandem with rising individualism, a sense of entitlement among many people and a decline in community involvement, possibly because of people focusing on their own racial or cultural backgrounds rather than what Americans have in common.

“I think patriotism encompasses being part of your community and helping other Americans,’’ said Mr. Williams, who said he coaches youth sports and volunteers with a group that provides security at protests and rallies.

Mr. Williams said that, as a middle-school student at the time of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, he knew then that he would join the military. “I just felt that I wanted to do my part to protect my country,’’ said Mr. Williams, who supported former President Donald Trump’s two White House campaigns. He eventually served four years in the Marines.

To Janet Boyer, a former Pentecostal minister who lives in Cumberland Township in Southwestern Pennsylvania’s coal country, patriotism has taken on a political sheen and is no longer important to her. “For me, patriotism has turned into right-wing nationalism,’’ said Ms. Boyer, who backed President Biden in 2020.

Political divisiveness also weighs on her. “Back in the day, Republicans and Democrats had a sense of deference to one another,’’ said Ms. Boyer, 52, a self-help author and jewelry designer. “They didn’t act like they were in a schoolyard trying to be vengeful and reactive."

Asked what values unite the nation, Elana Reiser, 43, of Brookhaven, N.Y., pointed to economic opportunity. “No matter your starting point, you can always become successful,’’ she said.

Some 21% in the survey said that America stands above all other countries in the world, a view that some call American exceptionalism. Half said that America is one of the greatest countries, along with some others. The share who said other countries are better than the U.S. rose to 27%, up from 19% when the same question was asked in 2016.

Ms. Reiser said that, as a university math teacher, she knows that other countries rank higher on tests of math performance. She said longer vacations and maternal leaves in some European countries mean they have a better quality of life. “In America, you basically have to work your whole life, and you don’t get breaks,’’ she said.

Jennifer Benz, vice president of public affairs and media research at NORC, said that views in the survey might have been colored by the downbeat economic outlook that the poll also found. “People are just sort of down on everything about the country,” she said.

The survey found sharp differences by political party on social issues that have gained prominence.

It asked whether society had gone far enough—or had gone too far—when it comes to businesses taking steps to promote racial and ethnic diversity. Just over half of Republicans said society had gone too far, compared with 7% of Democrats. Some 61% of Democrats said diversity efforts hadn’t gone far enough, compared with 14% of Republicans.

Three quarters of Republicans said society had gone too far in accepting people who are transgender, while 56% of Democrats said society hadn’t gone far enough.

Overall, 63% of people in the survey said that companies shouldn’t take public stands on social and political issues, while 36% of people said companies should take such stands. Among Republicans, 80% opposed companies doing so, while 56% of Democrats favored the idea.

Half of people in the survey said they didn’t like the practice of being asked to use gender-neutral pronouns, such as “they’’ or “them,’’ when addressing another person, compared with 18% who viewed it favorably. Some 30% of respondents under age 35 viewed the practice favorably, compared with 9% of seniors.

The Journal-NORC survey polled 1,019 people from March 1-13, mostly online. The margin of error was plus or minus 4.1 percentage points.

Differences in how the new poll and prior surveys were conducted might account for a small portion of the reported decline in importance of the American values tested. Prior surveys, conducted for the Journal and NBC News, used live interviewers to reach people by phone.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/americans-pull-back-from-values-that-once-defined-u-s-wsj-norc-poll-finds-df8534cd

Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 15:30 on Mar 27, 2023

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Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009

YOU CAN TRUST ME!*


*Israeli Government-affiliated poster
Mass shooting at a Christian elementary school in Tennessee.

Students ranged from pre-school to 6th grade.

The shooter died after the police showed up, but unclear if he was shot or killed himself.

Multiple people were shot and taken to the hospital, but no info on the severity of their wounds or status.

The shooting just happened roughly half an hour ago.

https://twitter.com/AP/status/1640388972441399298

quote:

NASHVILLE, Tenn. (AP) — The suspect in a shooting at a private Christian school in Nashville on Monday is dead, officials said.

The Nashville Fire Department said on Twitter there are “multiple patients” but their conditions were not immediately clear. The shooting occurred at The Covenant School, where students walked to safety holding hands to a nearby church to reunited with their parents.

The shooter died after being “engaged by” officers, Metro Nashville Police said in a Twitter post. It was not immediately clear whether the shooter died by suicide or was shot by police.

The fire department said they responded to an “active aggressor” but did not give any specifics. Other details about the shooting were not immediately available.

The Covenant School has had an enrollment of about 200 students from preschool to sixth grade in recent years and was founded as a ministry of Covenant Presbyterian Church in 2001, according to the school’s website.

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009

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Mellow Seas posted:

A few years ago I would've said "statistically, it's still very unlikely," but now... I don't know. There's only about 115,000 schools in the country so depending on where you set the threshold for school shooting (like, do you count incidents where "only" three kids get shot, or ones with no fatalities) the rate has to be up to, I don't know, one out of every 500-10,000 or so. Those are much "better" odds than the chances of your parachute failing while skydiving, which are high enough to keep me from ever skydiving.

Hell the odds are possibly even "better" than the chances of ending up in a car crash where your seatbelt saves your life, and 90% of Americans make sure to buckle up every time.

Rough time to have kids. :/

Mass shootings are somewhat common in the U.S., but school shootings are still pretty rare.

The odds of any given child in the U.S. dying in a school shooting is about 9,950,000 to 1 and only a very small percentage of mass shootings in the U.S. happen at schools (less than 0.1% of people killed by guns are in school shootings).

Part of the reason is the depressing fact that mass shootings outside of schools are somewhat common. Kids under 18 are much more likely to get killed by their parents gun in their house or another peer using a gun than they are at school.

School shootings are just way more high-profile because we have kind of just gotten used to the ~316 people who die every day from being shot in groups of 2 or 3, suicide, or domestic incidents to the point where they rarely make the news.

Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Mar 27, 2023

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009

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*Israeli Government-affiliated poster

Kalit posted:

....how does this prevent us from passing gun control related laws? And do you think that a parliamentary system makes it impossible to have a divided government?

Technically, yes. A parliamentary system has the executive and legislative branch within a single elected body, so it is literally impossible to have a divided government where the executive and legislative branches are controlled by different people.

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009

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NYT is reporting that the shooter was known as a woman in college in 2016, is still biologically female, and still legally had their female name from birth.

The information about them being transgender is from a LinkedIn profile they had where they list their pronouns as "he/him" and may have gone by a different name with some people. The shooter's father still referred to them as their daughter (although, that doesn't necessarily mean anything because they might not have been out to their father or their father didn't acknowledge it). So, it seems like there is some evidence that they are a trans, but nothing definitive is public right now. It is mostly based on a comment from someone who knew them and their LinkedIn profile.

Nothing from the manifesto is public. The police say they are investigating every lead and the manifesto, but don't have any evidence that gender identity was related to the shooting.

The shooter also planned to shoot up a second location (that was not made public), but decided against it because there were armed guards.

quote:

The attacker who fatally shot three children and three staff members at a Nashville school on Monday was identified as a former student at the school who the police said appeared to have written a manifesto about the attack and drawn maps of the campus.

The shooter, identified as Audrey E. Hale, was killed by police officers who responded to the shooting at the Covenant School, a small, private Christian school that is attached to a church and serves children from pre-school through sixth grade.

The Nashville police chief, John Drake, said the police had found maps of the school that were drawn “in detail” and which noted the location of school surveillance cameras, entry points and other features. He said the police were in touch with the shooter’s father, and that it was not immediately clear when the assailant had attended the school.

The attacker entered the school by shooting through one of the doors, the authorities said, and was armed with three guns, including an AR-style rifle, an AR-style pistol and a handgun. At least two were purchased legally in the Nashville area, the police said.

The assailant was “prepared for a confrontation with law enforcement” and “prepared to do more harm” before being killed, Mr. Drake said.

There was confusion about the gender identity of the assailant in the immediate aftermath of the attack. Officials used “she” and “her” to refer to the shooter, and Chief Drake said that the assailant identified as transgender.

Kristin Mumford, a police spokeswoman, said that the shooter had been born female but listed male pronouns on a LinkedIn profile, which suggested that the suspect was a transgender man. That profile had been active in recent months, with the user reacting to two posts about other people’s career updates.

In response to a reporter’s question about whether the attacker’s gender identity was connected to the shooting, Chief Drake said, “We’re investigating all the leads.”

The attacker was an illustrator and graphic designer who had studied at the Nossi College of Art and Design, according to a former teacher and an online portfolio.

“She just always was a kind of quiet girl but was very serious about her work,” said Steve LaSuer, an instructor at the school who had taught the attacker in a design and composition in 2015 or 2016. Mr. LaSuer said he had been stunned by Monday’s developments. “It’s blown me away,” he said.

The online portfolio included illustrations related to businesses around Nashville, including logos and splashy advertisements for a restaurant, a toy store and a video company. Beginning last May, the shooter worked as a shopper for a grocery delivery company, according to a LinkedIn profile.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/27/us/nashville-school-shooting-audrey-hale.html

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009

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Timeless Appeal posted:

Hon, this is kind of a nonsense phrase. Those who medically transition can take on secondary sexual characteristics like a deeper voice, facial hair, flatter chest, more muscle mass, etc, but also still having other secondary characteristics like a uterus, vulva, occasional period, etc. The phrase that matches best the idea you're trying to express is "they have not medically transitioned" which is honestly neither here nor there in the matter.

Right, I was just repeating what the NYT was saying in regards to evidence of them being transgender. The NYT says there "is confusion" about their gender identity and listed the various things that may have pointed to it and the various things that may not. So far, the only actual evidence is the LinkedIn profile and people are just going off of that.

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009

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Nashville PD just released video of the shooter, the school, their car, and how they broke into the school.

They also confirmed that the three children that died were all 9 years old and one of them was the head of the school's daughter.

Still no info about the manifesto or motive.

All three of the guns were legally purchased in Tennessee recently.

https://twitter.com/MNPDNashville/status/1640507254611795968
https://twitter.com/MNPDNashville/status/1640521034594918400
https://twitter.com/MNPDNashville/status/1640545519511404546

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009

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*Israeli Government-affiliated poster
The Mayor just said that the shooter was waiting on the second floor for the police and shot at them from a window when they arrived at the scene. Body cam footage will be released tomorrow.

The police chief also said that based on their writings "resentment about being sent to this school" may have played a role in it being chosen as one of their targets. The shooter was not targeting specific people, though. They fired randomly at whoever they came into contact with.

The three adult victims were a 61-year old male janitor, a 60-year old woman who was the head of the school, and a "caretaker" assigned to students with special needs.

The shooter was dead 14 minutes after the 911 call was made and 3 minutes after police arrived.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...tw_ma#rcrd11683

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009

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Jaxyon posted:

It was an anti-gay attack.

I think he is referring to the fact that the investigation and trial subsequently introduced evidence that he picked the club at random.

- He originally was looking at Disneyworld.
- The night of the shooting, he googled "downtown Orlando nightclubs" and started driving towards a different club that was the #1 result.
- Then, he waited outside that club for a while before driving away because there was too much security.
- He googled "downtown Orlando nightclubs" again and went to Pulse, which was the #2 result.

quote:

What really happened that night at Pulse

The attack on the nightclub has long been seen as a hate crime directed at the LGBTQ community. But all evidence says the gunman chose it at random.

quote:

But during the trial of Omar Mateen’s widow, Noor Salman, all forensic evidence suggested that up until the moment he turned into the Pulse parking lot, Mateen had been considering other venues, rejecting them because they were more heavily guarded. In their closing statement, government prosecutors admitted that there was no evidence to suggest that Mateen knew that Pulse was a gay club.

quote:

The case leaned heavily on forensic cellphone evidence and security camera footage.

On the night of June 11, 2016, Omar Mateen googled and visited Disney Springs, a popular Orlando outdoor shopping and recreation area. Then, just after midnight, he googled “Disney World,” and his cellphone placed him near towers around Epcot, another Disney-owned theme park, according to The Orlando Sentinel. But it wasn’t until he was near Epcot that Mateen googled “downtown Orlando nightclubs,” which delivered Eve Orlando and Pulse as top results. Mateen then drove to Eve, where he stayed for six minutes before driving away. Eve Orlando, in a busy downtown nightclub district, is in an area with heavy police presence, Swift said.

After 1 a.m. on June 12, the night of the attack, Mateen performed one final Google search for “downtown Orlando nightclubs” and began to drive to Pulse. He hesitated, turned back toward Eve, then turned around again and headed back to Pulse. “Finally, around 2 a.m., Mateen fired the first shots in the Pulse nightclub,” a motion filed by the defense read. There was no cellular evidence that he had ever been there before that night.

https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/what-really-happened-night-pulse-n882571

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009

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Byzantine posted:

O Daughter of Babylon, doomed to destruction, blessed is he who repays you as you have done to us. Blessed is he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.

I'm not sure what argument you are making here.

Byzantine posted:

Wait, so...two Trump judges, one of which is :kav: dissented. That should mean it was struck down, because surely the three liberals didn't approve this, and 3+2 is 5 and thus a majority.

They didn't take the case or rule on the merits of his original contempt charge. This was a ruling on whether the appeals court had read the law so incorrectly that it needed Supreme Court review and not a ruling on the merits of the case.

Deciding to grant cert isn't really a ruling on the facts of the case. Most major cases get 7-9 votes for cert, but end up 5-4 or 6-3 decisions.

The request was for a writ of cert to argue that the appeals court acted inappropriately and not a direct appeal of his RICO case result. Donziger admits he did the things that resulted in the contempt charge, but he was arguing that it should be thrown out because the judge appointed the prosecutors from private practice. But, the appeals court ruled that the law has said it was fine to do that as long as they were supervised by the USDA. The only part he was challenging was the appointment of prosecutors by the Judge.

quote:

The New York-based 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals last year concluded that U.S. District Judge Lewis Kaplan possessed the authority to appoint the prosecutors, who nonetheless remained subject to supervision by the U.S. attorney general.

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009

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Cpt_Obvious posted:

That opening paragraph to the article is a doozy:

Afaik none of the weapons used in mass shootings are untraceable. Even if they were, mass shooters usually end up surrendering or committing suicide/suicide by cop so idk why traceability would even matter. Many of those legislations include "ghost guns" which idgaf about. Most mass shooters really don't care about getting caught, they usually plan to kill themselves anyway.

At this point mass shootings are so common they're rarely the top story (if they even make national news) unless there's something weird about it like uvalde. I looked through most of those legislations and very few of them seemed particularly helpful in preventing them. Even raising the age of semi-auto firearms purchasers is kind of worthless when parents buy the weapons for their kids.

Would you mind please including a link to the source material when you quote it?

I agree with your overall point. Although, ghost guns are being frequently used in shootings involving drugs and crime. According to the ATF, several cities had up to 20% of their shootings involve ghost guns in 2021.

However, you're right that they aren't being used very often at all for mass shootings. According to ABC, there have been 4 school shootings that involved ghost guns in the last two years and one non-school mass shooting in Sacramento.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/ghost-guns-showing-school-shootings-experts-fear-trend/story?id=83346844

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009

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CuddleCryptid posted:

The large problem with "stopping" shootings is that you can't, at least not entirely. There are dozens of things you can do to minimize shootings such as safe storage laws, domestic violence gun revocation, and mental health services expansion. But none of those truly *prevent* shootings one hundred percent and that makes them sound like half measures, meaning they get very little play. Ultimately if someone is motivated enough then they could do it, because it is a cultural problem, not a legislative one.

People don't want to hear "this will cut shootings by 80%", because that isn't far enough. But even if you go full on "the police keep us safe, melt all privately held guns in America" confiscation (which will never happen) then there will *still* be at least some shootings from the people who are still allowed to have guns.

The only way to actually fix this is a fundamental shift in how we interact with firearms as a culture and good loving luck on that.

I don't think anyone thinks that they will stop 100% of shootings. Even places like Japan (which is an island nation making it very difficult to smuggle in guns, has incredibly strict gun control, no civilian gun culture, and very strict laws about gun sales and imports) have a few occasional gun deaths.

But, you can reduce them dramatically (especially the school shootings and domestic shootings that are usually only enabled because of the ease of having a gun that someone can just take or pick up in the house) by doing what every other country did:

- Ban the sale and manufacture of most handguns.
- Have a voluntary gun buyback.
- Confiscate and destroy all guns used in crimes or found during any investigations.
- Disallow inheriting guns that aren't antiques and ban private sales and gifts.
- Wait 10 years for most of the remaining guns to eventually filter out of the system.

You don't have to go door to door and confiscate everyone's guns or consider an 85% reduction in gun deaths a failure. Most other countries who implemented major gun control saw reductions between 50% and 80% and they are generally considered successful.

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009

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*Israeli Government-affiliated poster
These poll results aren't really new and are kind of infamous, but the trend of the last 30 years or so where large majorities of Americans desperately want completely contradictory things is still holding strong.

Huge majorities of people want to:

- Cut spending overall.
- Increase spending in every category, except for foreign aid.
- Cut taxes.
- Balance the budget.

all at the same time.

https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/1641059731417513984

I'm kind of amused that the AP pretty much just lays it out in the first sentence:

quote:

WASHINGTON (AP) — In the federal budget standoff, the majority of U.S. adults are asking lawmakers to pull off the impossible: Cut the overall size of government, but also devote more money to the most popular and expensive programs.

Six in 10 U.S. adults say the government spends too much money. But majorities also favor more funding for infrastructure, health care and Social Security — the kind of commitments that would make efforts to shrink the government unworkable and politically risky ahead of the 2024 elections.

These findings from a new poll by The Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research show just how messy the financial tug-of-war between President Joe Biden and House Republicans could be. At stake is the full faith and credit of the federal government, which could default on its obligations unless there is a deal this summer to raise or suspend the limit on the government’s borrowing authority.

Biden this month proposed a budget that would trim deficits by nearly $3 trillion over 10 years, but his plan contains a mix of tax increases on the wealthy and new spending that led GOP lawmakers to declare it dead on arrival. House Speaker Kevin McCarthy, R-Calif., is insisting on budget talks with the White House but has not produced a plan of his own to cut deficits, which Biden has said is a prerequisite for negotiations.

The new poll finds U.S. adults are closely divided over whether they want to see a bigger government offering more services or a smaller government offering fewer services. But a clear majority — 60% — say they think government is spending too much altogether. Just 16% say the government is spending too little, while 22% say spending levels are about right.

U.S. adults were previously less supportive of spending cuts, a possible sign of how the pandemic and a historic burst of aid to address it have reshaped politics. Compared with 60% now, 37% called for spending cuts in February 2020, as COVID-19 was beginning to spread throughout the U.S. By May, even fewer, 25%, wanted less spending, after the virus had forced major disruptions to public life, the economy and the health care system.

Retiree Peter Daniluk acknowledged the tensions over the federal budget by saying the government might be “a little too” large, but “you’ve got to spend money in order to make things better.” The 78-year-old from Dryden, New York, voted for Biden and believes there should be more funding for the environment and military, while also preserving Social Security and Medicare.

“The rich don’t pay enough of the taxes — that’s the problem,” he said. “They know how to get out of paying their proper share.”

Inflation jumped as the U.S. economy recovered from the pandemic. GOP lawmakers have blamed Biden’s $1.9 trillion coronavirus relief package for rising prices as they’ve pushed for spending cuts, while the president says inflation reflects global factors involving supply chains and Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.

Federal expenditures are expected to be equal in size to roughly 24% of all U.S. economic activity for the next several years, a figure that will likely grow as an aging population leads to more spending on Social Security and Medicare. Government spending accounted for just 20.5% of U.S. gross domestic product a decade ago, according to the White House Office of Management and Budget.

Even if a majority of adults desire a tightened budget, the challenge for lawmakers trying to hash out an agreement is that the public also wants higher spending on a wide range of programs. While Biden rolled out a budget that would trim deficits largely through tax increases on the wealthy, GOP lawmakers have struggled so far to gel around a set of spending cuts — and even if they did, the White House is betting that their plan would upset voters.

Roughly 6 in 10 adults say the government is spending too little on education, health care, infrastructure and Social Security, as well as assistance to the poor and Medicare. About half say government is spending too little on border security, child care assistance, drug rehabilitation, the environment and law enforcement.

By comparison, a wide majority — 69% — say the U.S. is spending too much on assistance to other countries. But slashing foreign aid would have almost no impact on the overall size of the government, as it accounts for less than 1% of all federal spending, and major programs such as Social Security and Medicare are causing the government to grow in size over the next decade.

Glenn Cookinham, 43, of Sioux Falls, South Dakota, said inflation and health care expenses are major problems confronting the U.S. as a country right now. A Republican who views Biden as “OK,” Cookinham feels as though the U.S. could pull back on military funding to focus on its own internal challenges.

“I don’t think we should be the police for the rest of the world, really,” he said.

About a third of U.S. adults say spending on the military is too little and nearly as many say it’s too much; an additional third say it’s about right.

Bipartisan majorities back more spending on infrastructure and Social Security. But wide differences across party lines on other priorities could be a sticking point in budget talks.

Most Republicans say too much is spent on assistance to big cities (65% vs. just 19% of Democrats), and about half say too much is spent on the environment (51% vs. just 6% of Democrats). Republicans are more likely than Democrats to indicate that the military, law enforcement and border security are underfunded. By comparison, far more Democrats say too little is spent on aid for the poor (80% vs. 38% of Republicans), the environment (73% vs. 21% of Republicans), child care assistance (71% vs. 34% of Republicans), drug rehabilitation (67% vs. 36% of Republicans), and scientific research (54% vs. 24% of Republicans).

There is also a generational breakdown in terms of priorities. Young adults are more likely than older adults to say too little is spent on the environment and assistance to big cities, while more older adults say too little is spent on infrastructure, the military, law enforcement and border security. Young adults are especially likely to think too much is spent in those areas.

For those between the ages of 30-44, who are especially likely to have school-age children, there is a desire for the government to spend more on education.

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009

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Forum accident posted:

Can't help but notice that it looks like this poll didn't ask people how they felt about military spending. You could cut military spending in half and easily make all the rest of those points presented as contradictory happen.

Ershalim posted:

I think this is pretty easily explained by the absurdly glaring omission of military spending (and to a lesser extent, police budgets). I don't think it's strange to think the government spends way too much in general and way too little on specific things.

Unfortunately, no.

Military spending is also very popular.

Gallup's most recent poll from last month shows ~63% of Americans think current military spending is either too low or about right. Only 35% think it is too high.

Only 11% think our current national defense is "stronger than it needs to be," 44% say "not strong enough," and 44% say "about right."

https://news.gallup.com/poll/1666/military-national-defense.aspx

The only category of spending where a majority of Americans support cuts is "Foreign Aid."

Leon Trotsky 2012
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Forum accident posted:

This is a different poll though, isn't it? I just mean that military spending being left off of the original poll can explain the way it's being presented as contradictory.

Yes, but the original poll did ask about a lot more categories. They just didn't include them all in the tweet graphic. They are described and listed in the article underneath that was copy and pasted.

Here's the crosstabs:

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009

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The FDA has approved Narcan (an anti-opiate overdose nasal spray) for sale over the counter.

This is part of their review that was previously mentioned in this thread where they are analyzing several different drugs that are currently prescription only (such as Narcan, viagra, birth control, epi-pens, and statins) and making them available over the counter.

The full review process is supposed to be done this fall.

Narcan was controversial because some people were worried that it would encourage people to overconsume opiates because they wouldn't have to call the police or go to the hospital. But, the evidence pretty overwhelmingly shows that Narcan saves lives by being more available.

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1641061518161608708

quote:

F.D.A. Approves Narcan for Over-the-Counter Sales

The nasal spray reverses opioid overdoses and public health officials hope that making it more widely available could save lives and reduce the nation’s high rates of drug fatalities.

Narcan, a prescription nasal spray that reverses opioid overdoses, can now be sold over the counter, the Food and Drug Administration said on Wednesday, authorizing a move long-sought by public health officials and treatment experts, who hope wider availability of the medicine will reduce the nation’s alarmingly high drug fatality rates.

By late summer, over-the-counter Narcan, could be for sale in big-box chains, vending machines, supermarkets, convenience stores, gas stations and even online retailers.

The commissioner of the F.D.A., Dr. Robert M. Califf, said in a statement that the over-the-counter authorization was meant to address a “dire public health need.”

“Today’s approval of OTC naloxone nasal spray will help improve access to naloxone, increase the number of locations where it’s available and help reduce opioid overdose deaths throughout the country. We encourage the manufacturer to make accessibility to the product a priority by making it available as soon as possible and at an affordable price.”

Narcan is a nasal spray version of the drug naloxone, which blocks an opioid’s effect on the brain. As the overdose crisis has worsened, with more than 100,000 drug-related deaths in the United States for each of the last two years, millions of doses have been administered by outreach workers, health care providers and emergency responders.

But for people who use drugs, as well as for their friends and relatives, ready access to the prescription medication has been elusive.

Naloxone access laws in every state allow pharmacists to have a standing prescription so they can dispense Narcan or a generic brand to anyone who requests it. But many pharmacies choose not to do so, preferring not to engage customers around illicit drug use, especially without a doctor’s oversight. Of the nearly 17 million naloxone doses distributed in 2021, only 2.64 million were from pharmacies, according to a recent report.

Though over-the-counter status will in theory make it far easier to obtain Narcan, the cost of the medicine could be a deterrent.

Currently, a two-dose pack of prescription Narcan is often free to people covered by Medicaid or private insurance, or has a co-pay of less than $10. But public and private insurance programs do not cover most over-the-counter medicines. Whether an exception will be made for Narcan could take months to resolve.

This month, a big-box pharmacy in Manhattan was charging $98 for the two-dose box of prescription Narcan to customers without insurance. Another pharmacy chain in New Jersey charged $73.

The company that makes Narcan, Emergent BioSolutions has declined to disclose the price it plans for an over-the-counter version of Narcan, while the F.D.A. was reviewing its over-the-counter application. On Wednesday morning the company did not mention a price in a statement released after the F.D.A.’s announcement.

“We are dedicated to improving public health and assisting those working hard to end the opioid crisis — so now with leaders across government, retail and advocacy groups, we must work together to continue increasing access and availability, as well as educate the public on the risks of opioid overdoses and the value of being prepared with Narcan to help save a life,” said Robert G. Kramer, the chief executive officer of Emergent BioSolutions, which manufactures the nasal spray.

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009

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DeliciousPatriotism posted:

Has there been much discussion here on the specifics of Senate Bill S. 686 (the "TikTok Bill") and how kinda shockingly snoopy it is? Apologies if I'm very late to a dead conversation but my friends and I in the real world are only just coming to look at this thing. It strikes me as both a patriot act expansion into the digital real and corporate protectionism for domestic tech companies (many of which seem to be getting washed in global competition over top social media brand.)

https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/senate-bill/686?s=1&r=25

Would folks consider these correct assertions? Kinda makes sense that the media blitz has been so focused on it being the "TikTok ban" when the bill itself is so, so much more than just that.

It's less patriot act and more protectionism for domestic tech companies + anti-Russian/Chinese government tech influence. Most of the bill revolves around giving the Commerce Secretary authority to require companies to either not use technology that could be used by a terrorist group or a foreign government to cause damage to U.S. infrastructure/spy or force them to store the data on American soil/spin off the tech to a non-Chinese/Russian company.

The bill isn't explicitly about Russia/China, but it is entirely about Russia/China having tech companies that are under control or owned by their respective states.

Leon Trotsky 2012
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Zamujasa posted:

boy howdy i sure hope there are good, meaningful limits, because you could make an argument that any site that allows user-generated content could be used for those purposes

The short version is that it is defined as:

- Trafficking or selling nuclear, biological weapon, radiological, or toxic material.
- Causing mass severe damage to critical United States infrastructure.
- Importing narcotics into the country.
- Executing a terrorist attack against any government where planning was done in the United States.
- Operating an information or communication technology that has access to American financial assets or personal data that is owned or operated by a foreign government.

It's basically designed to target China (TikTok, ByteDance, WeChat, AliBaba, and Huewei) and Russia (Kaspersky anti-virus) to allow them to either block that tech or force a restructuring so the company that is owned or run by a foreign state has make the data and technology subject to American laws and out of control of the foreign state.

Plus, they threw in terrorists and nuclear weapons just to be sure.

The tl;dr version is: "Under current law, we can't act against or restrict these companies without restricting the entire industry. Let's set up a system where we can apply specific rules and security regulations to them without messing with the whole industry."

Basically, it's a bill that targets Russian/Chinese tech companies, but doesn't technically target Russian and Chinese tech companies.

Leon Trotsky 2012
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Most marijuana legalization at the state level is either dead or frozen in place until 2024, but Delaware has kind of come out of nowhere and passed a bill to legalize marijuana recreationally very quickly.

The Governor hasn't said whether he will sign it or not, but the legislature also passed it with a veto-proof majority.

https://twitter.com/kylejaeger/status/1640815702100807680

quote:

Delaware Senate Approves Marijuana Legalization And Sales Bills, Sending Them To The Governor

The Delaware Senate approved a pair of House-passed bills to legalize marijuana possession and establish regulations for an adult-use cannabis market on Tuesday, sending them to the governor.

The simple legalization proposal cleared the chamber in a 16-4 vote, while the regulatory measure passed in a 15-5 vote. Both pieces of legislation, which moved through Senate committees before advancing to the floor, are being sponsored by Rep. Ed Osienski (D).

“The legalization of adult-use recreational marijuana is inevitable because it is the will of the people,” Sen. Trey Paradee (D), who is carrying the legislation in the Senate, said ahead of the vote.

“Sixty percent of Delawareans believe that recreational use of marijuana should be legalized. That percentage will certainly grow quickly in the years to come,” he said. “The older generation that was fed Reefer Madness lies and propaganda is beginning to understand what the younger generation already knows: marijuana, by any measure, is far less harmful than alcohol, not as addictive as caffeine and nicotine and does not cause anywhere near the harmful side effects and astronomical health-related costs and consequences of tobacco and nicotine products.”

The sponsor took a similar, bifurcated approach for the reform last session and saw the legislature pass the basic legalization proposal while narrowly defeating the regulatory measure. Gov. John Carney (D) vetoed the former legislation, and the House didn’t have to votes for an override.

Osienski recently said that if the governor seeks to veto the legislation again this time, he’s “optimistic” and feels “pretty good” that they have the votes for an override.

“I think my colleagues are saying, ‘OK, you know, you had one shot at vetoing this, you did and you were successful, but don’t count on us supporting that veto again,’” he said.

Both the simple legalization bill and the sales regulation measure cleared both chambers with more than enough votes to override any potential veto.

Emily Hershman, the governor’s director of communications, told Marijuana Moment on Tuesday that he “continues to have strong concerns about the unintended consequences of legalizing marijuana for recreational use in our state, especially about the impacts on our young people and highway safety.”

“He knows others have honest disagreements on this issue,” she said. “But we don’t have anything new to share today about how the governor will act on HB 1 and HB 2 if they reach his desk.”

Here’s what the HB 1 legalization bill would accomplish:

State statute would be revised to legalize the possession, use, sharing and purchasing of up to one ounce of cannabis for adults 21 and older.

To avoid abuses of the “gifting” provision, the bill stipulates that “adult sharing” would not include giving away cannabis “contemporaneously with another reciprocal transaction between the same parties” such as an exchange of a non-marijuana item.

Public consumption and growing cannabis would remain prohibited.

People under 21 who engage in such activity would be subject to a civil penalty of up to $100 for a first offense. Police could use discretion and issue a citation in lieu of that fine, however.

Here’s an overview of the key provisions of the HB 2 regulatory bill:

The legislation would provide a basic framework to create a regulated system of cannabis commerce for adults in the state.

The Division of Alcohol and Tobacco Enforcement (DATE) would be responsible for regulating the market through a new Office of Marijuana Control Commissioner.

For the first 16 months of implementation, regulators could approve up to 30 cannabis retail licenses.

Applicants who show that they’d provide a living wage, health insurance coverage, sick and paid leave and focus on diversity in hiring would be prioritized in the licensing scoring process.

Seven percent of marijuana business fee revenue would go to a “Justice Reinvestment Fund” that supports restorative justice, workforce development, technical assistance for economically disadvantaged people and more.

That fund would also go toward “creating or developing technology to assist with the restoration of civil rights and expungement of criminal records.” However, the legislation itself doesn’t provide for automatic expungements.

In additional to conventional retail, cultivator, manufacturer and laboratory licenses, the bill would additional provide for social equity and microbusiness licenses (reserved for applicants with majority ownership by Delaware residents).

Localities would be able to prohibit marijuana businesses from operating in their area through ordinance.

Adult-use marijuana sales would be subject to a 15 percent sales tax. Medical cannabis products would not be taxed.

Prior to Tuesday’s vote on HB 2, members rejected two GOP-led amendments. One would have revised the structure of the cannabis regulatory commission and allowed people subject to fines, license suspensions or license revocations to request documents from regulators that are relevant to the action. The other would have removed references to labor peace agreement requirements for marijuana businesses.

Leon Trotsky 2012
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Kalit posted:

Don’t forget about MN :colbert: We’re moving right along since the DFL finally regained state control: https://www.marijuanamoment.net/minnesota-lawmakers-approve-marijuana-legalization-bill-with-overhaul-amendment-in-house-committee/

No idea how long before everything gets ironed out, but at least they’re being thorough. And it doesn’t sound like there will be any hold out votes in either our House or Senate

True. They haven't actually passed anything yet, though. I'm not familiar with the progress on that specific issue in MN; do you know if it is likely to pass? I believe it has passed committees there before, but ended up dying.

Leon Trotsky 2012
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Still missing a lot of information about motive, but NBC has interviews with friends of the Nashville shooter and seems to confirm:

- “She was under care, doctor’s care, for an emotional disorder,”
- One of their friends said they did identify as trans, but everyone else seemed to know them as a she.
- Confirmed that nobody in particular was targeted.

- The shooter sent a friend a bunch of messages immediately before the shooting:

quote:

The Nashville school shooting suspect’s chilling final messages have come to light, issuing a dark warning to a friend that “something bad is about to happen” just minutes before killing six in the horror attack.

quote:

Audrey Hale, a 28-year-old former student at the school, sent a series of direct messages to friend Averianna Patton via Instagram on Monday morning.

In the harrowing messages sent at 9.57am, Hale revealed plans to die by suicide, telling Ms Patton “this is my last goodbye” and that she would soon be reading about it “on the news after I die”.

quote:

“One day this will make more sense,” Hale wrote.

“I’ve left behind more than enough evidence behind. But something bad is about to happen.”

quote:

“So basically that post I made on here about you, that was basically a suicide note.

“I’m planning to die today. THIS IS NOT A JOKE!!!!

“You’ll probably hear about me on the news after I die.”

She continued: “This is my last goodbye. I love you [heart emoji] See you again in another life. Audrey (Aiden).”

quote:



https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1641264997387980801

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/crime/nashville-shooting-motive-audrey-hale-b2309664.html

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/crime/nashville-shooting-audrey-hale-final-messages-b2309262.html

Leon Trotsky 2012
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The WaPo interviewed hundreds of Americans who own AR-15s about why they have them.

It's pretty wild.

A very large percentage of them are at least somewhat concerned that society is on the verge of collapse and they will need it in the aftermath of the collapse of global order. However, most of them say they need it for self-defense and protecting their family to make sure they aren't outgunned by a criminal with a gun.

https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1641484935197339650
https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1641485228987281408

quote:

Why do Americans own AR-15s?

The AR-15 is the best-selling rifle in the United States, industry figures indicate. Almost every major gunmaker now produces its own version of the weapon, which dominates gun dealers’ walls and websites.

Critics claim that the military-style gun has no legitimate civilian use — yet about 1 in 20 Americans own one. So who chooses to buy an AR-15, and why?

The Washington Post and Ipsos asked nearly 400 AR-15 owners to explain their reasons for having the weapon, what they use it for and how often they fire it.

The survey found that AR-15 owners come from red, blue and purple states. Compared with Americans as a whole, AR-15 owners are significantly more likely to be White, male and between the ages 40 and 65. They’re also more likely to have higher incomes, to have served in the military and to be Republican. And AR-15 owners are more likely to live in states former president Donald Trump won in 2020 than adults overall.

Self-defense was the most popular reason for owning an AR-15. Other popular answers included recreation, target shooting and hunting, while some pointed to owning an AR-15 as their Second Amendment right.

The Post-Ipsos poll is one of the most detailed nationally representative surveys to date focused on the opinions of AR-15 owners.

The gun industry estimates there are about 20 million AR-15s in circulation. There is no way to independently confirm that number, but polling can estimate how many Americans own them.

National surveys by Ipsos in 2022 found that 31 percent of adults own guns. The Post-Ipsos survey of AR-15 owners estimates that 20 percent of gun owners own an AR-15-style rifle. Taken together, the polls find that 6 percent of Americans own an AR-15, about 1 in 20.

The data suggests that with a U.S. population of 260.8 million adults, about 16 million Americans own an AR-15.

“To ensure I would not be outgunned if I had to defend my family and property with the rate that society is going.” A 52-year-old man said.

Full poll results when asked an open-ended question about why they own an AR-15:

quote:

Self defense/Protect home/self/family - 33

Fun/Recreation/Sport or hobby shooting - 15

Target shooting/Take to range/Competition - 15

Second Amendment/It’s my right/Because I can - 12

Hunting - 12

Like the way it looks/Like it/Because I want to - 9

Easy to use/Simple/Accurate - 6

Used one in the military/as a police officer/Use for work - 4

Customizable/Platform/Versatile - 4

In case of chaos/Government tyranny - 3

Was a gift/Inherited it - 2

Collection/Collector - 2

Angers liberals/Because people want to ban them/Because they make other people afraid - 2

Other - 5

No answer - 2

Not sure whether it is funny or horrifying that 2% of people answered the bolded response without prompting when asked an open-ended question.

Demographics of AR-15 Owners in America compared to other gun owners and the average American:




Leon Trotsky 2012
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Biden is still refusing to negotiate over the debt ceiling and McCarthy says that Republicans will just pass their own debt ceiling bill with all the cuts they want over and over until the Senate accepts and Biden signs it. McCarthy says they won't send a clean bill to raise the debt ceiling and will try to blame the Senate for a default until Biden agrees to negotiate or accepts their bill.

McCarthy had previously said that the House Republicans would not be offering their own specifics for spending cuts. McCarthy says this is proof that Republicans will not allow default and if a default occurs, then it is because the Senate and Biden did not accept their bill to raise the debt ceiling.

https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/1641522675926310915

quote:

WASHINGTON — Speaker Kevin McCarthy said Thursday that House Republicans are prepared to pass their own debt ceiling bill if President Joe Biden won't agree to negotiate with him over raising the nation's borrowing limit.

He said the Republican conference is “very close” to agreement on the issue. “And if the president doesn’t act, we will.”

McCarthy said a House debt ceiling bill would reflect the contours of his letter to Biden earlier this week that proposed a borrowing limit extension with provisions to cut and cap discretionary spending, recapturing unspent Covid relief funds, new work requirements for federal benefits and energy and border legislation.

McCarthy's remarks represent a significant twist in the stalemate over the debt ceiling. It is the first time he has said the GOP-led House can act on its own to avert default, in response to Biden saying that paying the country's bills is non-negotiable and that he won't grant Republicans any policy concessions for it.

The Republican speaker has previously insisted on negotiations and avoided saying the House would act without Biden's buy-in. He oversees a slim majority and would have a difficult time passing a debt limit bill with only Republican votes. That bill would then be sent to the Democratic-controlled Senate, and need Biden’s signature to become law.

“We have been reasonable, responsible, asked to sit down with the president for months. He is making the decision that he wants to put the economy in jeopardy. I don’t know what more I can do,” McCarthy said. “I would bring the lunch to the White House. I would make it soft food if that’s what he wants. It doesn’t matter.”

Does McCarthy have the votes?

Still, some lawmakers doubt that Republicans can go it alone in the House.

Rep. Tom Cole, R-Okla., the chair of the House Rules Committee, said Republicans will “absolutely” need some Democratic votes to get any debt limit bill passed through the closely divided chamber.

“We need some restraints on spending," he said. "And Democrats — the only place they seem to want to restrain spending is in defense. And the only place we want to spend is in defense, and obviously veterans. So, again, two sides have to sit down and craft a deal."

In response to McCarthy's letter earlier this week, White House press secretary Karine Jean-Pierre said Biden “welcomes a separate conversation” about budget policy, but not linked to paying the bills that Congress has legally imposed on the country.

“It’s time for Republicans to stop playing games, pass a clean debt ceiling bill and quit threatening our economic recovery,” she said.

Democratic leaders are supporting Biden’s position, saying Congress should pass a “clean” debt limit bill with no strings attached and negotiate spending policy separately on a government funding bill.

Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer said there’s nothing for Democrats to negotiate with until Republicans craft a plan and prove they have the votes in the House to pass it.

"He doesn’t name anything specific at all. So if they were to sit down, you’d have to ask yourself, what are Speaker McCarthy and President going to talk about — the weather?" Schumer told reporters earlier this week. "We have a plan. We want to pass the debt ceiling without hostage taking without brinksmanship, just get it done like we’ve done under both Presidents [Donald] Trump and Biden. They still don’t have a plan."

Rep. Byron Donalds, R-Fla., said that if Democrats wanted a clean debt limit increase, they should have passed it last year while they had control of Congress.

"Joe Biden could have had his clean debt ceiling six months ago. He chose not to do that. So now, FAFO," Donalds said Thursday, using an acronym for the phrase "f--- around and find out." "Now he's got to deal with House Republicans. And we're gonna work we are going to make sure that we reform and cut unnecessary spending to get our country back on track."

Leon Trotsky 2012
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Grand Jury has voted to indict Trump on criminal charges.

quote:

A Manhattan grand jury voted to indict Donald J. Trump on Thursday for his role in paying hush money to a porn star, according to four people with knowledge of the matter, a historic development that will shake up the 2024 presidential race and forever mark him as the nation’s first former president to face criminal charges.

The felony indictment, filed under seal by the Manhattan district attorney’s office, will likely be announced in the coming days. By then, prosecutors working for the district attorney, Alvin L. Bragg, will have asked Mr. Trump to surrender and to face arraignment on charges that remain unknown for now.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/03/30/nyregion/trump-indictment-news

Leon Trotsky 2012
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Trump's 2024 campaign has put out a short statement:

quote:

Donald Trump was the victim of an extortion plot, yet he is the one being prosecuted.

Says they will be releasing a full statement announcing how they plan to respond soon.

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Youremother posted:

So what's next? Is the possibility of Trump being arrested, let alone brought to court or even prison, thinkable right now? I really doubt this is going to amount to much, I don't see a warrant being sent out for Trump, but hey who knows

If he is indicted, then he will have to be arrested and booked. He will likely be allowed to surrender on his own, though.

They won't issue a warrant unless he skips court.

Leon Trotsky 2012
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Mike Pence has a pre-scheduled live interview on CNN tonight a 9 pm. That probably just got a lot more exciting.

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Fox News is live on air asking Trump to call in and give his side of the story.

Just wild.

https://twitter.com/TVNewsNow/status/1641560876154068995

Leon Trotsky 2012
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Full statement from Trump just emailed out a minute ago:


Leon Trotsky 2012
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Don Jr. just went live, started crying, said this is "communist level poo poo," and called Alvin Bragg a handpicked soldier of George Soros.

https://twitter.com/YWNReporter/status/1641564219358302210

The AP also says that Trump will surrender on Monday.

https://apnews.com/article/trump-hush-money-new-york-indictment-election-027d0e5ac1881a4c55c6379deae75faa

Leon Trotsky 2012
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Someone will definitely record and upload this soon, but a Fox News host was arguing that Trump will be considered "a badass" for getting arrested and said his mug shot will make him seem incredibly cool to the youth just like Tupac's mugshot did.

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Zotix posted:

If it's 30+ charges, would the likelihood of them booking and releasing go way down compared to the flimsy singular charge that people thought was the case hours ago? It seems like with 30 charges, that poo poo just got real.

Number of charges doesn't really have anything to do with how they arraign and do pre-trial detention. It's the nature of the crime that matters. It's a white collar financial crime that he literally can't reoffend on right now, so he will still get booked and released.

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Pence's live interview is currently airing on CNN.

It's already off to a strong start.

Pence says that Trump's prosecution "will offend the overwhelming majority of the American people who believe in fairness, who believe in equal treatment before the law" and that Trump's prosecution will "convince people that there is a two-tiered justice system in America."

He also says that if Trump is convicted, he doesn't think he should drop out of the race - but, he also doesn't think he should definitely stay in - and he will make a decision on that if it ever comes to fruition.

Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 02:17 on Mar 31, 2023

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Circutron posted:

Hell of a swerve there from the guy who thought he was going to die on January 6th.

He's weaving and swerving everywhere right now. I love the idea that America didn't have a two-tiered justice system until today.

He says Michael Cohen lied about Stormy Daniels and facilitated the payment, so it was correct for him to go to jail. Trump didn't hand a check to anyone and it is possible his name was forged on the check, so he wouldn't be lying when he said he had no idea. That is why Cohen deserved to be in jail, but Trump does not.

Also says that January 6th was bad, but Trump pledging to pardon January 6thers is fine because he would legally be allowed to do that as President. When pressed on whether he agrees it is a good idea, he keeps just saying that the President has the legal authority to pardon people over and over again.

Pence says that campaign finance violations aren't even a real thing because campaign finance violations don't violate natural laws and were made by man.

Leon Trotsky 2012
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Pence is kind of melting right now from very basic questions.

“While it did not end well, I'll always be proud of the record of the Trump-Pence administration."

"It was a historic administration in many ways. Some would say in bad ways, but I am not one of them. Except for the dissolution of our civility and the pursuing of two political impeachments against a sitting President."

Says whatever Trump is doing has no impact on his decision to run for President in 2024. He and his family have been praying for the last few months to get an answer on if he should run, but haven't heard anything yet. They are going to continue praying and he is going to continue to travel the country listening to Americans until he gets a definitive answer from prayer and his family.

He also again implies that campaign finance laws aren't even real laws because they were crafted by the hand of man and not natural law.

Leon Trotsky 2012
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Mike Pence is somehow unable to answer a question about abortion and wobbling around. I have no idea if he is nervous, surprised, or trying to seem to moderate. But, he's coming off incredibly bad and it is bizarre to see Mike Pence of all people hedge on abortion.

"Would you support a 6-week abortion ban nationwide?"

"I'm pro-life."

"If you were President, and a support a 6-week abortion ban came across your desk, then would sign it?"

"Look, I'm pro-life."

"Would you sign it?"

"Wolf, look, I'm pro-life. I'm not gonna apologize for it."

"So, you would support it?"

"If legislation... in that regard... came around, then I would surely... I would surely take a look at it. But, to be honest, I think that this will take place at the state-level."

"But, would you sign a bill?"

"I'd support federal legislation that is pro-life if I were in congress... or any other job in that town. But, when the Supreme Court overturned Roe. v. Wade, they returned the issue to the states. But, look, I will always stand for life."

Leon Trotsky 2012
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Nelson Mandingo posted:

Here is my question, when will we the public know the 30 counts of charges?

It's sealed for now, but will be public by his booking. So, sometime between tomorrow and Tuesday.

Leon Trotsky 2012
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CNN is putting out clips from the Pence interview now.

His solution to mass shootings: Implement the death penalty at the federal level for shootings that take place in states without the death penalty.

For bonus points: This question came right after his abortion/ "I'll always side on the side of life" question.

https://twitter.com/CNN/status/1641622311890481152

Leon Trotsky 2012
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Ataxerxes posted:

Stupid question from a non-American: can these be declared secret or otherwise hidden from the public?

No. Once you are arraigned on a charge you have a constitutional right that you must be read the list of charges against you. They will be entered into the record at the point.

Honestly, given that the number of charges already leaked before the indictment had actually been technically announced, I think the charges will probably be public before his arraignment.

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Leon Trotsky 2012
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The New York Young Republicans just put out an absolutely bonkers statement about Trump's indictment and is vowing to organize protests outside of the courthouse next week.

quote:

Today, our nation careens toward tyranny at an unprecedented pace. An impudent cabal of radical figures abandons all propriety in their dogged attacks on President Donald J. Trump. We have taken a decisive step away from the values that define our national character.

Every utterance that has escaped these monsters’ lips since President Trump first came down the escalator has built toward this moment; each falsehood, each misdirection, each deliberate misportrayal found its culmination in Alvin Bragg’s desperate action today.

Radical leftist interests, beholden to an elite, internationalist cabal have taken the unprecedented step of indicting President Donald J. Trump, the leading candidate for the 2024 presidential election.

Every American feels today the solid grasp of the Fifth Column on his throat; henceforth, we must openly acknowledge what so many have long known: that control of our nation’s fate has long been prised from our grasp. Let anyone who celebrates this downfall of our republic be forever branded a traitor to our nation. No one who mocks the people’s will can claim the title of an American.

President Trump embodies the American people—our psyche from id to super-ego—as does no other figure; his soul is totally bonded with our core values and emotions, and he is our total and indisputable champion. This tremendous connection threatens the established order.

The fix has always been “in” against our President, but his motivation and love for the American people drove him to pursue the national excellence that his unique vision perceived lay within our reach. In doing so, he opened so many eyes to reality.

Last summer, in Tampa Florida, addressing a crowd of thousands of youths, President Trump stated that if he backed down from challenging the regime, he would have been left alone. That the regime now sheds the mask of “democracy” and unveils its true and hideous face shows how committed President Trump is to standing with the people. Every American owes him thanks.

Despite our tremendous success holding marquee protests in Manhattan for critical rightwing causes, today we remain at home. Let our silence be a condemnation of the captivity of our nation; a polemic on the state of our republic. We will not allow another Fedsurrection; we will not be pawns in the Deep State’s perpetual effort to delegitimize Americans’ fundamental right of assembly.

President Trump assured us that he was our retribution. Now we must return the rejoinder: our victory will be the joint vindication that our great President Donald J. Trump and our American people both deserve. This is Total War.

https://nyyrc.com/statements/statement-on-president-trumps-indictment/

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