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fatherboxx)
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Kchama posted:The big issue I see with turtle tanks is that while they might be a bit too sturdy for small drone weaponry, they probably aren't too sturdy for the kind of weapons a small drone would be able to trivially call in on it. That is what happened to original the turtle tank I believe, it was later found destroyed. I mean if it needs a HIMARS to kill it probably serves it' function. In the current environment if it needs a 155mm to kill it might still serve its function. Neither turtle-tanks nor motorcycle assaults would make any sense against a prepared position with ample artillery support, but that's not universally the case now.
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Apr 16, 2024 12:37
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genericnick posted:I mean if it needs a HIMARS to kill it probably serves it' function. In the current environment if it needs a 155mm to kill it might still serve its function. Neither turtle-tanks nor motorcycle assaults would make any sense against a prepared position with ample artillery support, but that's not universally the case now. It really doesn't need a HIMARS, it was just probably out of range of anything else. But if a drone can spot it, then it is relatively close to Ukrainian forces. Motorcycle assaults don't really make sense against a prepared position period, but at least those can be swift enough to escape if you just need to get some people from point A to point B. Not saying they don't make sense to at least try, but the turtle tanks for sure have some big issues.
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Apr 16, 2024 12:42
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Turtle tank might be less about protective armor and more about if you are zipping around in a drone several hundred/thousand feet in the air and that thing isnt moving you, the tired as gently caress drone operator, might not realize its a tank.
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Apr 16, 2024 12:59
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Zelenskyy gave an interview to PBS. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvjcUkcKI3o The situation with Ukraine's energy infrastructure is getting more and more dire. Zelenskyy's pleas for more help also sound more desperate, almost like at the very beginning of the full-scale invasion. There are so few shells available that the reason Kyiv's largest electricity plant was destroyed was that they literally had none left to intercept four remaining Russian rockets. Zelenskyy directly says that without the help from the US, Ukraine can't defend itself effectively. quote:I'm telling you frankly that we have no chance to win without that help. And we have to be much stronger than our enemy to win. Here's what I mean. Right now we have one artillery shell against their ten. Can we stand our ground like that? No, no matter what, with these numbers, they will keep pushing us back, every day. If we really want to protect the territories that are currently under our control, we must get to some sort of parity - ten shells against ten instead of one against ten. Zelenskyy also points to the support Israel got against the recent Iranian attack, echoing Ukraine's campaign from almost two years ago to have Western countries protect its airspace directly. quote:We saw a lot of equipment in action there that Ukraine lacks. Now that was a real display of what it means to be allies not just on paper but also in the air. Ukraine is supposed to get another Patriot from Germany and at least 180k shells from Czechia very soon, but the long-promised F-16s won't be in Ukraine until summer. Regardless of turtle tanks and go karts, Russia's summer offensive that is almost guaranteed to happen is going to be an enormous challenge for Ukraine.
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Apr 16, 2024 13:05
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genericnick posted:idk, makes sense if the main problem the Russian are trying to solve are small drones. So they are trying turtle tanks that would need to be stopped by bigger weapons and motorbikes that move too fast for fpv drones to effectively engage. No idea whether it works, but APCs might not be the answer here. fpv drones go like 80mph, they catch people on bikes and quads all the time.
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Apr 16, 2024 15:06
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I've seen multiple videos of Russians on quads and motorcycles being hit by regular vertical drop shell drones let alone fpv ones.
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Apr 16, 2024 16:12
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genericnick posted:idk, makes sense if the main problem the Russian are trying to solve are small drones. So they are trying turtle tanks that would need to be stopped by bigger weapons and motorbikes that move too fast for fpv drones to effectively engage. No idea whether it works, but APCs might not be the answer here. The whole point of something like an armored personnel carrier is to make it more difficult to attack. Your drone has to be big enough to haul around a proper payload to break through that armor and/or be accurate enough to hit the vulnerable bits like an open hatch or lightly armored engine deck. Similarly artillery needs to be much more accurate to disable armored vehicles. With an unarmored car/ATV/golf cart an effective drone can basically just be a hand grenade without the need to defeat armor, while artillery fire of any kind is substantially more deadly at a substantially larger distance. You're talking the difference between having to punch a hole in something that will stop any bullet smaller than .50 bmg, versus defeating something the average gradeschool student can punch holes in with a screwdriver. They're just running out of armored vehicles and this is a cheap and available alternative. Warbadger fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Apr 16, 2024 |
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Apr 16, 2024 19:05
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Field improvised armor != running put of traditionally armored vehicles, unless you’re putting “running out” on some very, very long timelines.
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Apr 16, 2024 20:10
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mlmp08 posted:Field improvised armor != running put of traditionally armored vehicles, unless you’re putting “running out” on some very, very long timelines. We're talking about the increased number of sightings of unarmored vehicles appearing at the front, not stacking barns or metal cages on T-72's. It's been several years with nearly 3000 tanks, 1300 AFVs, 2800 IFVs, 500 APCs, and a few hundred more lightly armored cars as confirmed losses. For reference they had about 2000 tanks in active service in 2019. Fewer (and older) armored vehicles have been showing up at the front lines throughout the duration of the conflict, and it's not much of a stretch to assume it's due to an inability to fully compensate for those losses. They aren't putting the T-62's at the front line or conducting assaults on trenches with MT-LB's (or now ATVs) instead of BTRs and BMPs because they want to or because it works better. Warbadger fucked around with this message at 20:50 on Apr 16, 2024 |
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Apr 16, 2024 20:34
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Feels like this is the kind of improvisation that happens in every war it only seems more prevalent because of the proliferation of drone cameras and cellphones. Here is a snippet from a 2017 article by Fast Company interviewing Major John Spencer on improvisation during the Iraq war. quote:So once troops realized that the Army’s supplemental armor kits for the Humvee were in short supply, they started bolting their own makeshift armor to the sides of their vehicles.
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Apr 16, 2024 20:35
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Popete posted:Feels like this is the kind of improvisation that happens in every war it only seems more prevalent because of the proliferation of drone cameras and cellphones. What's being talked about isn't "field improvisation of armor" which happened pretty much since the war began, and indeed is pretty normal in war. What's being talked about is substitution of vehicles entirely.
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Apr 16, 2024 21:05
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Yeah I just don't think you can draw wide ranging conclusions about Russia's vehicle stockpile from a few videos of UTV/ATVs caught by drone cameras. Ukraine themselves are saying they are losing this war if they don't get more help, I don't think they would be that worried if Russia was down to "golf cart" assaults.
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Apr 16, 2024 21:12
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Popete posted:Yeah I just don't think you can draw wide ranging conclusions about Russia's vehicle stockpile from a few videos of UTV/ATVs caught by drone cameras. Ukraine themselves are saying they are losing this war if they don't get more help, I don't think they would be that worried if Russia was down to "golf cart" assaults. I don't disagree, I was just correcting since people suddenly jumped to talking about vehicle substitutions to improvised armor on vehicles and acting as if they were the same thing.
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Apr 16, 2024 22:25
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Warbadger posted:They aren't putting the T-62's at the front line or conducting assaults on trenches with MT-LB's (or now ATVs) instead of BTRs and BMPs because they want to or because it works better. Got it, you weren’t saying they are running out of armored vehicles, you were saying they are refurbishing and using older armored vehicles in lieu of other armored vehicles lost in combat. Concur, they are using different armored vehicles than they used to, and their rate of refurbishment and new production is lower than their early losses, but they are not “running out” of armored vehicles.
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Apr 16, 2024 22:53
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I'm still shocked Ukraine is still this short on just typical armored vehicles, https://x.com/KyivIndependent/status/1779986436072096136
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Apr 16, 2024 23:56
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Gucci Loafers posted:I'm still shocked Ukraine is still this short on just typical armored vehicles, I wager it's because the rest were destroyed over time and it's hard to replenish vehicles in the front lines. Those servicemen seem to all be at the same frontline area. This doesn't mean we shouldn't be giving them every single one we got just to make it easier to replenish them, though. They need everything they can get. Kchama fucked around with this message at 00:41 on Apr 17, 2024 |
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Apr 17, 2024 00:38
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https://x.com/ralee85/status/1780382319997546548?s=46&t=fppHBZSlD4AbSz5pJxjFMQ Suggests it could be kind of the EW escort for the other vehicles in the group.
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Apr 17, 2024 00:56
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mlmp08 posted:https://x.com/ralee85/status/1780382319997546548?s=46&t=fppHBZSlD4AbSz5pJxjFMQ Its really weird. Like if used as an ersatz-SPG like I heard, theres no reason to send it out like that in a direct assault. But In turn, why not just mount that ECM on another active and combat capable T-72?
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Apr 17, 2024 01:06
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Dandywalken posted:Its really weird. Like if used as an ersatz-SPG like I heard, theres no reason to send it out like that in a direct assault. But In turn, why not just mount that ECM on another active and combat capable T-72? does have a bit of physical UAV/warhead protection. Maybe this is version 2.0 of the junk-tank that just had poo poo bungee and ratchet strapped all over the turret.
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Apr 17, 2024 01:09
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mlmp08 posted:https://x.com/ralee85/status/1780382319997546548?s=46&t=fppHBZSlD4AbSz5pJxjFMQ Howls Moving Blyatsle being a massive jammer is a very strange solution, doesnt it make it just a ridiculously obvious target?
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Apr 17, 2024 10:31
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I chose to believe that the “EW equipment” on the roof of Castle Blyat is just a rack of looted PA speakers blasting hardbass.
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Apr 17, 2024 12:56
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fatherboxx posted:Howls Moving Blyatsle being a massive jammer is a very strange solution, doesnt it make it just a ridiculously obvious target? It's probably just a local commander throwing poo poo together. It doesn't have to be a great idea or work well for it to happen, and when the dumb idea manifests as an ersatz land bylattleship it's more visible to the outside observer.
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Apr 17, 2024 13:54
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E4. hit. You wrecked my blyattle-landship.
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Apr 17, 2024 14:32
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fatherboxx posted:Howls Moving Blyatsle Thread title?
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Apr 17, 2024 15:23
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https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1780563921734173076 in case anyone hadn't seen, seems like pretty significant airfield strike overnight. fully tally of damage is still unknown, but at least one air defense system and an ammunition depot taken out wonder if this is from the original batch of atacms, a new batch that was delivered under the radar, or something the ukrainians have cooked up themselves
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Apr 17, 2024 18:38
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here comes the shitbox https://v.redd.it/vr5hfivaf0vc1/DASH_720.mp4
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Apr 17, 2024 23:30
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From the USpol and lol Trump sucks threads. About loving time. $60 billion for Ukraine specifically if my googling is correct, vote is Saturday https://twitter.com/John_Hudson/status/1780649332057743476?t=q6aZHh1yBS6JxKTnXByUMw&s=19 cr0y fucked around with this message at 23:48 on Apr 17, 2024 |
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Apr 17, 2024 23:45
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Took them only half a year and another war to figure out. Insane that it was all in one bill with the intention that it would be easier to pass that way and now it's three separate bills anyway. I still expect something wacky to happen this Saturday that will delay the Ukraine bill specifically.
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Apr 18, 2024 01:19
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Paladinus posted:Took them only half a year and another war to figure out. Insane that it was all in one bill with the intention that it would be easier to pass that way and now it's three separate bills anyway. I still expect something wacky to happen this Saturday that will delay the Ukraine bill specifically. I'm pessimistic as well but it really does seem that the Dems have Johnson's Johnson firmly in a vise and if he bucks on this it's likely the Dems can sway the like 2 sane Republicans to nominate a dem speaker now that balloon clown girl is trying to oust him. I think it goes through.
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Apr 18, 2024 01:22
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Paladinus posted:Took them only half a year and another war to figure out. Insane that it was all in one bill with the intention that it would be easier to pass that way and now it's three separate bills anyway. I still expect something wacky to happen this Saturday that will delay the Ukraine bill specifically. Such a complete waste of time, effort, money, and Ukrainian lives.
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Apr 18, 2024 01:47
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DTurtle posted:It’s a single bill they want to pass as three separate bills with the plan to combine them back into a single bill before sending it back to the Senate. Hint: one of those bills will not be passing, and it's not the Israel one.
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Apr 18, 2024 04:48
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Paladinus posted:Took them only half a year and another war to figure out. Insane that it was all in one bill with the intention that it would be easier to pass that way and now it's three separate bills anyway. I still expect something wacky to happen this Saturday that will delay the Ukraine bill specifically. There was no "figuring out" anything, the delays were entirely the point made by the usual case of bad actors doing Russia's bidding.
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Apr 18, 2024 05:35
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DTurtle posted:Such a complete waste of time, effort, money, and Ukrainian lives. Pretty much sums it up. And how the poo poo isn’t Gaetz in jail.
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Apr 18, 2024 05:47
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So German cops have arrested two Russians spies / saboteurs in Bavaria. They were on a mission to plan attacks on military objects and supplies. I didn't know the German police were allowed to arrest German intelligence agents  https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deut...be-da8d642045cd
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Apr 18, 2024 08:20
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I guess Russia will arrest some German spies/saboteurs to swap for them.
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Apr 18, 2024 09:04
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Military supply depots mysteriously blowing up in former eastern bloc countries is one thing, but I have hard time believing the Russians are willing to go far enough to do so in Germany. Unless Putin wants to use that one weird trick to get Germany fully on board defending Ukraine.
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Apr 18, 2024 09:22
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Volmarias posted:Hint: one of those bills will not be passing, and it's not the Israel one. DTurtle fucked around with this message at 09:31 on Apr 18, 2024 |
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Apr 18, 2024 09:29
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It sounds similar to what Russian agents caught in Poland were doing. They're usually people with some connection to Russia, tasked with mostly recon around military bases and transport links to them. In Poland, they've set up a video recording system for rail shipments. In this case, it seems their mission was particularly tasked with US military resources.
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Apr 18, 2024 10:08
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DTurtle posted:Ukraine bill will easily pass. The support in the House has been there the entire time. The reason it wasn’t passed yet is that the Republicans don’t have the votes to pass it on their own without Democratic support. Ehh, I'll believe it when I see it. One should never underestimate the republican capacity for treason and betrayal. Trump will yell at them to vote against Ukraine and enough of them will fear and obey that I don't think it's guaranteed yet the bill will pass I was thinking that the one silver lining in this mess is that it has hopefully prodded Europe to accelerate its aid to Ukraine... but two things: just buying artillery ammo from foreign countries is great but in the longer term it's not going to be sufficient; and also, even if ammo production in Europe gets built up to sufficient levels, apparently Patriot missiles and stuff like that is also sorely needed. I don't know if Europe has enough capacity to produce sufficiently excellent anti-air missiles, so that might be yet another thing for which US aid is irreplaceable
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Apr 18, 2024 10:24
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Theoretically EU countries could pool together and buy patriot missiles from American suppliers and donate them to Ukraine but as a matter of policy everybody is trying to ramp up production in the EU itself (with some exceptions like the Czech artillery shells plan which was more of a stopgap measure)
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Apr 18, 2024 10:46
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