War in Ukraine CE: The Golf War

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Popete: Oct 6, 2009; This will make sure you don't suggest to the KDz
That he should grow greens instead of crushing on MCs; Grimey Drawer

Henrik Zetterberg posted:

How much airspace can a single Patriot battery cover? Can it like, protect Kyiv? Or are we talking a much smaller area?

Depends on the target and what version of Patriot, I don't think there's any for sure known numbers (stated numbers are almost always not accurate for obvious reasons) but I believe that yes it should cover a city sized area at least.

# ¿ Apr 4, 2023 21:53

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# ¿ May 17, 2024 16:49

Popete: Oct 6, 2009; This will make sure you don't suggest to the KDz
That he should grow greens instead of crushing on MCs; Grimey Drawer

Popete posted:

Depends on the target and what version of Patriot, I don't think there's any for sure known numbers (stated numbers are almost always not accurate for obvious reasons) but I believe that yes it should cover a city sized area at least.

Ok I found an article sighting an unnamed US Official here

quote:

One former senior military official with knowledge of the Patriot system said it will be effective against short-range ballistic missiles and it represents a strong message of U.S. support, but one battery isn't going to change the course of the war.

The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the Ukraine deal has not yet been made public, noted that one Patriot battery has a long firing range, but can cover only a limited broad area. As an example, Patriots can effectively protect a small military base, but can't fully protect a large city such as Kyiv. They could only provide coverage for a segment of a city.

So maybe not cover the entirety of Kyiv.

# ¿ Apr 4, 2023 22:05

Popete: Oct 6, 2009; This will make sure you don't suggest to the KDz
That he should grow greens instead of crushing on MCs; Grimey Drawer

Article is pay walled, does it name the company?

# ¿ Apr 8, 2023 17:46

Popete: Oct 6, 2009; This will make sure you don't suggest to the KDz
That he should grow greens instead of crushing on MCs; Grimey Drawer

Maybe we should stop letting 21 year old National Guard have access to sensitive documents.

# ¿ Apr 13, 2023 17:46

Popete: Oct 6, 2009; This will make sure you don't suggest to the KDz
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A Korean airliner was shot down by a Soviet fighter during the height of the Cold War and it didn't result in nuclear war. There has been a number of incidents Hainan Island Incident over the years and it's never resulted in much of anything.

# ¿ Apr 13, 2023 20:05

Popete: Oct 6, 2009; This will make sure you don't suggest to the KDz
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Immediately after the aircraft was downed there would be communications between NATO and Russian military leadership to determine if it was truly intentional, it wouldn't just default to launching nukes.

# ¿ Apr 13, 2023 20:12

Popete: Oct 6, 2009; This will make sure you don't suggest to the KDz
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Sorry about continuing this derail but I'm curios why this guy thinks he would be the head of said government? Although I did read his German wiki page translated to English and he has been convicted of fraud a bunch of times so I'm pretty sure I already know the answer.

# ¿ Apr 21, 2023 19:52

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Owling Howl posted:

Ukraine did not shoot down 300 planes and 300 helicopters. Full stop.

I didn't notice they split helicopters and planes and are claiming 600+ shot down in total, yeah that's ridiculous.

# ¿ Apr 28, 2023 15:57

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Charliegrs posted:

Maybe they are throwing certain types of drones that are more aircraft-like (like Orlan drones) in with aircraft and the drone figure they cite is quadcopter type drones? Maybe? I'm just trying to give them the benefit of the doubt.

That would at best be disingenuous.

Really all those numbers seem outlandish.

# ¿ Apr 28, 2023 16:27

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Fuschia tude posted:

Hasn't modern combat medicine vastly increased the latter side of that ratio since then, though?

Well field medicine has probably improved things are a lot deadlier too. I don't think we have many other modern peer to peer large scale conflicts to compare this too where we could estimate KIA:WIA. Even the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq where pretty lop-sided in favour of one side.

# ¿ Apr 28, 2023 18:12

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Crosby B. Alfred posted:

From a historical or really any point view, it's absolutely freaking crazy. There are more casualties in less than a year than compared to the whole Vietnam war or Iraq and Afghanistan combined.

That is definitely not true, especially if you look at the ARVN or Viet Cong numbers.

# ¿ May 1, 2023 19:31

Popete: Oct 6, 2009; This will make sure you don't suggest to the KDz
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:

Blah, if you look a whole Ukraine war. Yes not just Bakhmut.

Vietnam casualties are hard to quantify but even on the low end it's around half a million dead for the North, and 400k for the South with ~60k Americans and high estimates for the North at ~1.5 million and South ~1.1 million dead.

# ¿ May 1, 2023 19:35

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Warbadger posted:

On that note, Russian air defenses actually firing at these would have been extremely obvious and more destructive than those tiny payloads.

Right I don't think they'd open up with 30mm auto cannons well it was flying right next to the building they are meant to protect.

# ¿ May 3, 2023 22:43

Popete: Oct 6, 2009; This will make sure you don't suggest to the KDz
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I love when people on Twitter make a huge assumption based off their wrong guess at what something is.

# ¿ May 6, 2023 16:39

Popete: Oct 6, 2009; This will make sure you don't suggest to the KDz
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I don't think Ukraine is going to take a step into Russian territory, it would be a huge line to cross as far as NATO is concerned.

# ¿ May 11, 2023 20:56

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OddObserver posted:

Then NATO needs to go back to basic training. This sort of restriction is absurd.

Not really, this is a defensive war and NATOs help is contingent on it staying that way. They do not want to be seen as aiding Ukraine invading Russian territory and feeding into the narrative that this is somehow all instigated by NATO aggression in the first place as Russia has framed it. It would probably be enough for China and other countries who have sat on the sidelines to start directly sending arms to Russia.

Ukraine should seek to regain only its territory, holding Russian territory even temporarily would be difficult to manage.

# ¿ May 11, 2023 21:18

Popete: Oct 6, 2009; This will make sure you don't suggest to the KDz
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There's nothing magical about Patriot, it's a really advanced SAM system but it can be hit if you throw enough missiles at it. Whether one was actually hit who knows but it doesn't seem that far fetched that it would happen at some point.

# ¿ May 16, 2023 20:32

Popete: Oct 6, 2009; This will make sure you don't suggest to the KDz
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Russia does not have the capacity to wage another large scale war during/after Ukraine, nor does it have strong enough willing allies to wage war on it's behalf. So no this is unlikely to be the per-cursor to WW3.

# ¿ May 16, 2023 20:50

Popete: Oct 6, 2009; This will make sure you don't suggest to the KDz
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Nobody who actually knows the extent of damage if any is going to say anything at this point. A picture of a car with a busted rear end and a guy who "was right on Twitter previously" probably wasn't at the Patriot site to observe the damage and thus is guessing as much as the rest of us.

# ¿ May 16, 2023 21:16

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Care to explain why you think that is pro-Russian propaganda instead of just throwing a wall of text at the thread.

The war is very difficult for Ukraine, they were thrown into this and it's taken a huge toll on the country and yes likely resulted in more extreme measures to defend itself for it's very survival. We shouldn't paint a false picture of Ukraine as a flawless and perfect hero that hasn't had to face difficult choices and put a heavy toll on it's population.

# ¿ May 23, 2023 05:16

Popete: Oct 6, 2009; This will make sure you don't suggest to the KDz
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I think it serves to show the reader who might not be familiar with military contracts the difference in how Ukraine is operating in a state of all out war for survival versus a more typical super power invading some far away country on it's own terms. The situation in Ukraine is not ideal, there probably is a lack of training and equipment and breaking of previous draft restrictions but that's the nature of the war they are fighting, it's not an indictment on Ukraine per se.

# ¿ May 23, 2023 06:15

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Djarum posted:

I thought that the best place to hit was right at the waterline as it allows air to escape faster so water rushes in more quickly.

A torpedo exploding underneath the keel of a ship creates a huge air pocket that collapses and tends to break the ship in half, it's more effective than hitting the side of a ship.

I think the remote drone boats are built that way because as mentioned radio control and it's easier/cheaper to manufacture.

# ¿ May 25, 2023 19:36

Popete: Oct 6, 2009; This will make sure you don't suggest to the KDz
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Pretty sure they can just replace the exploded/damaged ERA tiles with new ones after the fight. I doubt it would need to go back for major refitting unless something more critical was damaged.

# ¿ Jun 2, 2023 03:02

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They wear headsets built into their helmets. I would assume it has some noise reduction built in.

# ¿ Jun 2, 2023 18:15

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Ynglaur posted:

As of 2001, the US used Combat Vehicular Crewman (CVC) helmets which included Bose noise-cancelling headphones and had a boom mic. The noise-cancellation was powered by the communications cable. They also had a "hear-through" feature, but those required batteries in each side. They were fantastic. Without them on, if the tank's engine was on you would have to at least raise your voice to be heard inside the turret.

The main gun is definitely loud, and I wouldn't want to be within a few dozen meters without hearing protection. You can feel the heat from the blast if you're standup up out of the hatch in the turret. (It's kind of cool.)

The Bradley's engine is much quieter, though it's still a large diesel engine whose exhaust covers the vehicle commander in soot. You want to wear hearing protection.

I seem to recall that technically we were supposed to wear in-ear protection and the CVC, but nobody wore the former because if you did you couldn't hear anything from the speakers in your ears (i.e. radio, intercom). Each crewmember can talk to each other via a full-net intercom (everyone hears everything), and the vehicle commander uses one or two radios.

I assume that as part of these various armor packages that the West is sending appropriate CVC helmets. They're part of the vehicles BII (basic inventory items), so hopefully we'll have a few fewer deaf Ukrainians at the end of this. (Seriously: wear hearing protection.)

This is completely tangential to the discussion but from your posts I gather you were a tanker in an Abrams previously? Just curious, back in ~2014 I was working at company that developed embedded systems for primarily the U.S. military and one of the software bugs I was working on was for an audio driver that was clipping and as part of the debug process I was given from the customer a bunch of sample audio clips from if I remember correctly an Abrams tanks where it was a female voice warning system. Some that I vaguely remember where lines like "oil temperature high", "radiation fallout detected" and "ballistics solution calculated". Does any of that ring a bell, was there an automated voice warning system to the crew? I just remember spending a few days listening to those same clips over and over well working on a fix and I'm curious if those were things a tanker would hear.

# ¿ Jun 3, 2023 05:41

Popete: Oct 6, 2009; This will make sure you don't suggest to the KDz
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Aertuun posted:

Is this one of those questions where we accidentally leak classified info.

lol I hope not, I was not in a high level position just a fresh college grad so I doubt they were letting me see/hear anything that interesting.

Ynglaur posted:

I was a tank platoon leader and an armored cavalry scout platoon leader from 2001-2003.

I had M1A1 "heavies" in Korea, M1A2s in the US, and M3A2 ODS Bradley's in the US and in Iraq. I'm very familiar with the tanks and IFVs Ukraine is getting from the US.

We didn't have audio voice warnings when I was in.

Ah ok, I could be misremembering what it was for exactly or perhaps it was something they added later on.

# ¿ Jun 3, 2023 15:52

Popete: Oct 6, 2009; This will make sure you don't suggest to the KDz
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Yeah not really feeling that much sympathy for an illegal torrent site given the actual victims in Ukraine.

# ¿ Jun 5, 2023 06:16

Popete: Oct 6, 2009; This will make sure you don't suggest to the KDz
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Twitter war experts hyper analyzing a hand full of wrecked vehicles in the same field for a week straight and trying to extrapolate whose winning the war.

# ¿ Jun 12, 2023 00:03

Popete: Oct 6, 2009; This will make sure you don't suggest to the KDz
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Any single vehicle doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. Really any handful of vehicles as seen on Twitter do not matter.

# ¿ Jun 13, 2023 17:34

Popete: Oct 6, 2009; This will make sure you don't suggest to the KDz
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As a military analyst (someone with access to Wikipedia and a Twitter account) I will show you a map I've drawn on in MS Paint to prove you wrong.

# ¿ Jun 22, 2023 22:20

Popete: Oct 6, 2009; This will make sure you don't suggest to the KDz
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Then it's just reformed as the Beethoven PMC or whatever.

# ¿ Jun 24, 2023 02:07

Popete: Oct 6, 2009; This will make sure you don't suggest to the KDz
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I wonder what this means for the counter offensive in Ukraine if Wagner truly pulled out of Russia. Seems like it would be a pretty significant weakening of Russia's forces.

# ¿ Jun 24, 2023 03:26

Popete: Oct 6, 2009; This will make sure you don't suggest to the KDz
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Maybe they're betting on the low morale of Russias army to not want to intervene?

Idk this is all very uncharted territory, gonna be a crazy next few days I guess.

# ¿ Jun 24, 2023 03:41

Popete: Oct 6, 2009; This will make sure you don't suggest to the KDz
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Nobody wants to wake him and let him know there's a coup happening.

# ¿ Jun 24, 2023 04:08

Popete: Oct 6, 2009; This will make sure you don't suggest to the KDz
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Diogines posted:

Can someone who has a better understanding of the situation than I do, please explain the likelihood of this leading to (1)the Russian state imploding into anarchy or (2)nukes somehow getting lose or flying? Both are pretty unlikely, right?

This seems like kind of a big deal but the various news websites seem to be treating this as just another piece of international news, which has me puzzled? Even if those are both unlikely, this seems like a Bigger Deal than the major news outlets are treating it?

Who is going to launch nukes? Russia at itself?

As for where this is all headed nobody has any idea.

# ¿ Jun 24, 2023 05:54

Popete: Oct 6, 2009; This will make sure you don't suggest to the KDz
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I'm not sure I buy Prigohzin stance that he's just after Shoigu and is upset at how incompetently the war is being run (although that is probably part of it). Let's say he accomplishes removing Shoigu then what? I can't really see Putin being happy with this insurrection and letting him return back to the front like nothing happened.

# ¿ Jun 24, 2023 05:58

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Budzilla posted:

Prigohzin's power within Russia was about to be removed. All PMCs were supposed to be absorbed into the military by July 1st and without it he has nothing, he can't exactly go to another country with his wealth so he probably is making a gamble even though the outcome is probably bad.

Ah ok, makes a lot more sense with that context.

# ¿ Jun 24, 2023 06:20

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This is a known anti-Ukrainian poster whose last post in this thread was praising Viktor Orban and claiming that Ukraine's military was decimated.

# ¿ Jun 28, 2023 02:42

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Highly intelligent of Russia to not advance too quickly and in fact actually lose ground in a shrewd move to not trigger NATO into direct action.

# ¿ Jun 28, 2023 03:37

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# ¿ May 17, 2024 16:49

Popete: Oct 6, 2009; This will make sure you don't suggest to the KDz
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The U.S. Navy does the same thing.

# ¿ Jun 28, 2023 22:33

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