War in Ukraine CE: The Golf War

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(Thread IKs: fatherboxx)

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

Does graphic violence just mean if you can see people being hurt/killed, or does it include "tank gets blown up (can't see anyone though)" or "aftermath of helicopter that's shot down"?

# ¿ Mar 31, 2023 18:21

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# ¿ May 21, 2024 00:46

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

Orthanc6 posted:

What's the expected timeline for these replacing the current arsenal of 5.56? Cause that sounds like a timeline for Ukraine and Taiwan getting more hand-me-down guns and ammo than their bodies have room for.

We could probably already hand over plenty of M16A4's, since they got replaced by M4's.

# ¿ Apr 5, 2023 04:35

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

From what I've read it seems pretty cool for long range shooting. I admit I'm a bit concerned about urban warfare or trench clearing, as we've seen Ukrainians often have to do, since the gun setup is heavier and has fewer bullets per magazine.

# ¿ May 9, 2023 08:45

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

tatankatonk posted:

Genuine question for those in the thread who are currently against a ceasefire or peace while Russia has illegally occupied/annexed Ukrainian territory - what do you think Ukraine should do if the counteroffensive fails to achieve a significant result? Is there any price in casualties and infrastructure that you would consider too steep for Ukraine to pay?

Up to Ukraine to decide -- but from what I see, the main problem is that a ceasefire or peace is likely just going to be a lengthy pause while Russia builds up for another attack, like how the invasions in 2014 stabilized around certain territory and then Russia just invaded again 8 years later.

# ¿ May 24, 2023 07:07

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

IIRC they also used a Bayraktar nearby to distract the ship

# ¿ May 25, 2023 21:32

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

Seems to be a thing that the Russian military overstates capabilities, while Western militaries understate if anything.

Reminds me of that one F-15 that managed to fly back to base with one wing torn off.

# ¿ Jun 14, 2023 22:02

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

Charliegrs posted:

Everyone's always talking about how bad Russia has performed in this war but honestly are they really doing that bad? Sure the blitzkrieg into Kyiv was a total failure but they seem to be holding their own against a military that has gotten a ton of high end western hardware and training.

Most of it isn't that high end though. A lot of the stuff transferred has been because Western countries are in the middle of replacing them. Humvees and Maxxpros being (partially) replaced by JLTV's, F-16's being replaced by F-35's, M16's having gotten replaced by M4's and soon my M5's. And even stuff that isn't being replaced yet, like Bradley's and Abrams, are usually older reserve stock.

Even a lot of the most celebrated, impactful stuff like stingers and javelins aren't exactly cutting edge, even if it's still current in some sense. Most of the Leopards are 2A4's IIRC, which are a fairly old model.

I guess it does look advanced compared to much of what Russia is fielding, but that's kind of the point: their equipment is way less advanced that was often bragged about or believed.

For example, my understanding is that every front life infantryman in the US Army has been outfitted with night vision goggles for a number of years now -- like, multiple decades -- but for Russian infantry, hardly any of those to be seen.

Cicero fucked around with this message at 06:27 on Jun 28, 2023

# ¿ Jun 28, 2023 06:22

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

Cold war conditioning definitely makes it easier for westerners to think of Russia as the villain, but in this case they're being mustache-twirlingly villainous by way of randomly flinging missiles at civilians and kidnapping children en masse for no plausible military reason. If you put this poo poo in a JRPG, reviews would complain about it being too over the top.

# ¿ Jul 1, 2023 10:15

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

Due to western aid, Ukraine probably has an advantage with night vision goggles, which would obviously help a lot.

# ¿ Jul 3, 2023 00:25

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

Dirt5o8 posted:

Vehicle mounted is easier on your body but just as bad as you have the sounds as well as a graphical read-out to decipher.

This type of pattern matching actually sounds like a perfect fit for modern AI models. I wouldn't be surprised if you could train one to be comparable or even higher accuracy than a human. And you wouldn't have to completely switch over either, it could be an automated warning layer on top of the raw output.

# ¿ Jul 10, 2023 06:00

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

daslog posted:

Isn't that how the US ended WW2? Or is this a goon joke?

I think that was less about killing civilians itself and more demonstrating that the US had weapons of such absurd power that resistance was completely futile. The firebombings killed similar numbers of people but didn't have the same effect.

# ¿ Jul 10, 2023 17:08

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

Djarum posted:

Russia I think should be thanking their lucky stars that Ukraine isn’t attacking bases in Russia. If they had clearance and weapons to strike Rostov-on-Don for example that would absolutely throw the Russian logistics and leadership into chaos.

Ukraine isn't supposed to attack Russian territory with Western donated weapons, but with their own weapons they're free to do so. Some countries in the West might tut tut a bit in the form of "we don't think this is the best thing to do", but not very hard since Russia is constantly flinging missiles at random civilian targets in Ukraine. As long as they're only targeting military targets, no one's gonna seriously complain.

Not sure about weapons that they've nominally purchased from the West though, whether those carry the same restriction on not using them to attack Russian territory.

# ¿ Jul 13, 2023 07:36

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

jaete posted:

This link is about tanks only. For some reason, after USA, the most tanky countries are the ones closest to Russia. Perhaps there's a reason for this?

What about air forces? Or missiles, or...

Remember when France and the UK were bombing Libya and ran out of missiles after a couple weeks and had to ask the US for supplies? Good times.

# ¿ Jul 20, 2023 21:45

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

OddObserver posted:

Didn't they just get a totally-not-a-light tank?

The army's getting one, yeah, the M10 Booker (and even some Army officials admit it's a light tank). I don't think the Marines have ordered any though: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/M10_Booker

# ¿ Jul 29, 2023 01:02

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

Weka posted:

Claims of how many Russian tanks they have destroyed seem to exceed the possible number of tanks Russia could have

Why do you believe this? Estimates pre-war were that Russia had thousands upon thousands of tanks in storage. Many of them are probably in really bad condition, but if even half were in working order it could be brought to such by repairs or cannibalizing other tanks, that would still be a ton. And they are still producing new tanks, albeit relatively slowly.

# ¿ Aug 22, 2023 03:52

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

Payndz posted:

The Bear And The Dragon. In which the plot hinges on massive meaty American penises being superior to small pathetic Chinese ones. No, I'm not joking.

The American in question is ethnically...Japanese, I think? And it was more a poke at the Chinese boss being old than anything else IIRC.

# ¿ Sep 1, 2023 07:20

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

Jamsque posted:

Incredible that they defeated a nation with an exponentially larger population

drat yoouuuuuuu

# ¿ Sep 4, 2023 21:40

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

Morrow posted:

I think what the user means is that US equipment has such a huge logistical tail end that it's often impractical to deploy for other militaries.

Isn't that only true for a handful of platforms, like the Abrams and F-35? Are Bradleys or Strykers or Paladins unusually hard to supply and support compared to other options from peer nations?

And even with those two, the Abrams is heavy, but the Leopard is similar, and while the Abrams has a turbine engine, technically it can run on diesel too (just worse IIRC). And the F-35 is a stealth fighter, there's probably some inherent logistical issues with that (though we don't have any other allied 5th gen fighters to compare against).

Cicero fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Sep 7, 2023

# ¿ Sep 7, 2023 19:17

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

Deltasquid posted:

I understand the senate as a principle. From the perspective of an EU citizen, it would be pretty hosed up if the French, German and Italian members of the EP could just ram everything through due to the populations of their member states while the Baltics, Benelux and Malta get told "sucks to be you, maybe your populations shouldn't have been so small". It would not make joining a union a very appealing prospect for those smaller states. (I am making total abstraction of the fact that the EU Commission has the power of initiative in the EU, not the EP, but you get my point. Even the EU Commission has one commissioner per Member State; France, Germany and Italy don't get half of them on account of their populations).

That's not hosed; that's democracy. One person, one vote. Individuals in smaller states/countries shouldn't get extra voting power just because they live in a smaller polity. (Though it shouldn't be people voting through their states or countries in the first place, it should just be proportional representation so that it doesn't really matter where the votes come from, but alas)

# ¿ Sep 27, 2023 10:02

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

Koos Group posted:

You are currently threadbanned and will need to appeal that with me if you wish to post.

Edit: To be clear, I'm not saying you're threadbanned for that post, which had nothing wrong, but that you were already threadbanned some time ago.

If they were already threadbanned, why did this new post not result in a probe?

# ¿ Oct 5, 2023 03:08

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

EmployeeOfTheMonth posted:

Well if they used 10-20 ATACMS missles i hope it was a good strike because those were expensive and they dont have a lot probably.

I wish they would just tell Putin: if you do an energy grid winter bombing campaign we'll allow Ukraine to strike back at the bombers in Russia.

Seems unlikely they used that many. Each of those missiles has over 900 bomblets, you shouldn't need one missile per target unless the helicopters are spread extremely far out from each other.

# ¿ Oct 17, 2023 22:17

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# ¿ May 21, 2024 00:46

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

knox_harrington posted:

The Ka-52 combat range is 460km.

https://odin.tradoc.army.mil/WEG/Asset/Ka-52_Alligator_(Hokum_B)_Russian_Attack_Helicopter

Max combat range means going that far, lobbing some rockets and then immediately turning and coming back to base, right? Part of the point of helicopters I think is their ability to loiter at the front for a while supporting infantry and ground vehicles, the less time you can spend at the front (because the base you came from is further away) the less effective they'll be.

# ¿ Oct 24, 2023 09:12

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > War in Ukraine CE: The Golf War