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everyone is normal except voles, who are hobbit size, and moles, who are d&d dwarf size. hares and otters and foxes are tall normal. badgers are large, like ogres
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Apr 2, 2023 10:54
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that's probably right but also way lamer
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Apr 2, 2023 10:56
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I'm the thinly veiled allegory of how you can't trust [insert race here] being ascribed specifically to weasels, stoats and minks, as whenever a good and virtuous public school accented pip pip chocks away chaps badger mouse or hare type decides to trust one of them, say "they're not all bad" and treat them kindly once per book, they then betray them no matter the situation thus proving you can never trust [insert race here]
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Apr 2, 2023 10:58
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redleader posted:that's probably right but also way lamer it is. the original redwall book that had, like, a full-size horse in it and mice living in a human-size abbey was way better than "everyone is between 4' and 10' except snakes"
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Apr 2, 2023 11:29
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that dude really loves writing about food
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Apr 2, 2023 11:53
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a mouse with a tiny sword climbing a draft horse like it's shadow of the fuckin colossus (note that i have never played that game)
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Apr 2, 2023 12:13
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even as a 12 year old kid I recognized the power creep in these books, the early ones have relatable heroes who aren't good at things but the later ones have godlike warrior heroes who fight their way through a billion rats unscathed
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Apr 2, 2023 12:15
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A CRAB IRL posted:I'm the thinly veiled allegory of how you can't trust [insert race here] being ascribed specifically to weasels, stoats and minks, as whenever a good and virtuous public school accented pip pip chocks away chaps badger mouse or hare type decides to trust one of them, say "they're not all bad" and treat them kindly once per book, they then betray them no matter the situation thus proving you can never trust [insert race here] i am pretty sure one of the later books' protagonists is actually a weasel or stoat or whatever the gently caress
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Apr 2, 2023 14:37
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Inexplicable Humblebrag posted:it is. the original redwall book that had, like, a full-size horse in it and mice living in a human-size abbey was way better than "everyone is between 4' and 10' except snakes" I read them out of order so I was very confused when I got to Redwall and suddenly climbing the abbey stairs was a huge deal and Matthias ascending the bell tower was like climbing a mountain
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Apr 2, 2023 14:54
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I lost interest real quick when every single book ended up being the same thing, and every villain was a coward next to every perfect hero. Also: A CRAB IRL posted:I'm the thinly veiled allegory of how you can't trust [insert race here] being ascribed specifically to weasels, stoats and minks, as whenever a good and virtuous public school accented pip pip chocks away chaps badger mouse or hare type decides to trust one of them, say "they're not all bad" and treat them kindly once per book, they then betray them no matter the situation thus proving you can never trust [insert race here]
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Apr 2, 2023 16:37
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cumpantry posted:i am pretty sure one of the later books' protagonists is actually a weasel or stoat or whatever the gently caress Yes, and then he betrayed the good animals for no reason and went back to join the evil horde, as everyone had predicted because it's in his nature
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Apr 2, 2023 17:16
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Taught me to enjoy candied chestnuts OP
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Apr 2, 2023 17:21
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the holy poopacy posted:Yes, and then he betrayed the good animals for no reason and went back to join the evil horde, as everyone had predicted because it's in his nature oh. yeah but i bet that book had some cool fights and food
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Apr 2, 2023 17:53
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The first book opens with a torture scene, i went back and reread it recently and was pretty shocked by how brutal it was. I went to school with a kid that shouted eulalia in gym.
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Apr 2, 2023 18:24
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Cthulu Carl posted:"Wow, this dude really likes writing about food" is my main take away from the few Redwall books my friend who was obsessed with the series convinced me to read. You sometimes hear discourse around other genre books, especially A Song of Ice and Fire, as "wow this author writes about food a lot." After reading so much Redwall as a kid though anything under 2 full pages of uninterrupted feast description doesn't even register as out of the ordinary for me. the holy poopacy posted:The Redwall series consists of exactly two books, Redwall and Redwall But Slightly Different, but for some reason they wound up publishing the second book under a lot of different names. Perfect (and also why I can't remember which book in the series I liked best)
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Apr 2, 2023 18:27
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PartyCrown posted:I went to school with a kid that shouted eulalia in gym. Lmao
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Apr 2, 2023 18:31
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At some point I started rooting for the villains since they were always so obviously doomed and many of the heroes were such smug pricks who delighted in slaughtering vermin. Pearls of Lutra was my favorite because the protagonist didn't come off like a kid who enjoys pulling the wings off flies, and I enjoyed any of the storylines about long voyages more than the mostly abbey-bound ones. I made it to Marlfox before I just got tired of the same poo poo happening every time, didn't finish it.
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Apr 2, 2023 18:40
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PartyCrown posted:I went to school with a kid that shouted eulalia in gym. lol
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Apr 2, 2023 19:06
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PartyCrown posted:The first book opens with a torture scene, i went back and reread it recently and was pretty shocked by how brutal it was. lol Dr. Jerrold Coe posted:At some point I started rooting for the villains since they were always so obviously doomed and many of the heroes were such smug pricks who delighted in slaughtering vermin. Pearls of Lutra was my favorite because the protagonist didn't come off like a kid who enjoys pulling the wings off flies, and I enjoyed any of the storylines about long voyages more than the mostly abbey-bound ones. I made it to Marlfox before I just got tired of the same poo poo happening every time, didn't finish it. yeah the ones about journeys that explored more of the world were way more compelling compared to a dozen variations on "a horde of vermin is coming to besiege Redwall Abbey, let's have a feast, let's send a hero off to gather allies to break the siege, oh there's Log-a-log, oh there's a badger, okay big battle, the horde of vermin is wiped out, oh no two of the named characters died, the end."
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Apr 2, 2023 19:18
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I just reread the first one and it's insanely good writing. I understand why I was obsessed.
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Apr 2, 2023 19:58
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i am going to try to remember what happens in the books without looking anything up REDWALL- as stated the world isn’t quite fully realised and there’s stuff like apparently human sized places, towns, dogs, horses, cats etc. there is a cat who is nice MOSSFLOWER- first one i read. jumps right back to the founding of the abbey. first appearance of bloodwrath badgers. they row a ship up a river and it has an insane female villain who he seems to get off on describing her drowning in some detail. she has a good brother who is an ancestor of the nice cat. this is about the last we see of some members of a species being nice and some not MATTIMEO- back in the present again, the one with the hosed up child slavery and the indiana jones underground kingdom poo poo. the guy falls out of a basket and he’s weak and frail and gets stoned to death by all his child slaves. pretty hosed up MARIEL OF REDWALL- jumps to another timeline in between the first two i think. the first appearance of “dibbun”. hot female warrior protagonist who washes up on a beach with amnesia, forages for food on a beach and hits a seagull with a rope so calls herself storm gullwhacker SALAMANDASTRON- cant remember anything except i think sunflash from redwall is in it. or maybe it’s urthstripe and urthwhyte (albino badger) i dunno MARTIN THE WARRIOR- what martin did before he showed up in mossflower. son of luke the warrior. its in the northlands. can’t remember wtf happens - at this point i can’t remember what order the books were in so i’ll just type whatever i remember first THE PEARLS OF LUTRA- probably the best one, he had perfected the formula and started to swagger a little. otter girl wants revenge for her massacred tribe and the redwallers solve a shitload of riddles in the sunken ruins of the castle from mossflower to find the tribe’s pearls OUTCAST OF REDWALL- scumtripe. this one had sunflash in (i think there was some fuckup where he forgot his name and thought he was called sunstripe because the nickname doesn’t work otherwise). he tried to make a redeemed vermin guy and the result is the most out and out racist one though it seems vaugely self aware about it THE BELLMAKER- i think this was the one in southsward, if so he was really phoning it the gently caress in at this point. boring as poo poo. i think it’s the origin story of why the bell in redwall is called the joseph bell i think that’s about all i can remember. i stopped reading when i hit puberty
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Apr 3, 2023 14:39
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was anybody else in the redwall readers club? i was. i put all the posters up in my room. i wore my "ive been to redwall" shirt every other day. i built the paper craft build your own redwall abbey. i wrote to brian jacques and got an autographed poster! i know all timelines and how every character is related to every other character. i want to name my cat ungatt trunn but my mom wont let me. i love those books. still do, too.
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Apr 3, 2023 15:28
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I'd venture that Lord Brocktree or perhaps The Legend of Luke is the best Redwall book Long Patrol is my favorite though
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Apr 3, 2023 15:37
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I was super into these books as a kid and read basically all of them When someone else came into school reading one once, i got super excited and spoiled the ending for him, and still am not sure why i did so. His face fell and he just put the book down and i felt like an enormous dickhead Marlfox and Long Patrol kicked rear end
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Apr 3, 2023 16:05
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I learned that there were two books in the series published posthumously that I had never heard of and I'm curious to read them. I'll get there eventually.
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Apr 3, 2023 16:10
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Outcast of Redwall (the one where he tries to confront the race problem) is super loving depressing. the abbey gets stuck with a verminous child who was abandoned during one of the raids, and they basically all hate him prejudicially from minute one except this poor dumb bleeding heart kid who mothers him. The wise old badger in residence even names him with this cryptic couplet that basically says he’s probably gonna turn out evil. It’s effectively jarring to see all the nice proper abbey guys being so openly racist and mean to a kid, and no surprise when he turns out hating them all and doing crimes. So eventually they have enough of him and throw him the gently caress out to become a hobo. He goes looking for his real dad who is a mercenary bastard who never cared about him, and eventually kills him for being in the way, right in front of his bleeding heart wannabe-mother who abandoned her home to try and help him. In the end they put her (the bleeding heart, who is a teenager btw) in charge of the whole abbey, probably because they all feel so guilty about the poo poo they put her through. Later in the series (Taggerung) they do the reverse (vermin raise a good guy baby) and surprise surprise it turns out they are unable to verminize him and he stays good and turns on the vermin. There is however a weirdly heavy scene in the middle where it turns out that the comic relief sidekick (also from a good guy species) used to get abused by his dad and ran away from home, and then they plan to go back there and teach him a lesson only to find that the home is a ruin and the abusive dad got butchered. FPzero posted:I learned that there were two books in the series published posthumously that I had never heard of and I'm curious to read them. I'll get there eventually. The later books in the series are pretty bad. Yeah yeah it’s a kids series and was always formulaic and it’s to be expected they ran out of steam, but the early stuff is still readable. I did a complete readthrough as an adult after giving up around Taggerung or Triss as a kid, mostly just to see if they came up with anything new, and it just kind of peters out in mediocrity. I’m not sure at what point the dementia and/or ghostwriting sets in but there’s no way all the books are the product of the same mind either. HORSE-SLAUGHTERER posted:MARTIN THE WARRIOR- what martin did before he showed up in mossflower. son of luke the warrior. its in the northlands. can’t remember wtf happens This one is good. A pirate captain goes legit and tries to build a fortress on shore with slave labor to become a king, but his rear end in a top hat fellow pirates keep crashing in on him to mess with him. Meanwhile the angriest mouse in history escapes from slavery and wanders the land collecting allies to help him get revenge and free the slaves. There’s a memorably racist bit where he wins over a tribe of infantile cannibals, a weird scene where they get roofied by a cranky old hermit, and a surprisingly bitter ending (his girlfriend gets killed and he wanders off southward, never to score again). It ends with the last surviving pirate yakking crazily to himself about the good times while trucking around the ruined fortress full of corpses.
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Apr 3, 2023 16:42
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I remember reading that one I think the protagonist's name was "Veil" or something and I remember thinking "you motherfuckers turned him into a monster with your prejudice" and it was the last of the books I read because it was so depressing.
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Apr 3, 2023 17:01
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Another fun thing about the early books is that the shrews start out as a (celebratory) satire of left-wing workers movements. The goof-rear end acronym names, all the ridiculous procedural rules combined with avowed anarchism, the tendency to tear each other new assholes about personal grudges while everyone’s openly affirmed enemies are running roughshod over civil society etc. They literally call one another “comrade”. This subtext gets completely lost by a couple of books in and rapidly the shrews become just another tribe of good guys but with boats, but while it’s there it’s absolutely hilarious.
skasion fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Apr 3, 2023 |
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Apr 3, 2023 17:35
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Cpt_Obvious posted:I remember reading that one I think the protagonist's name was "Veil" or something and I remember thinking "you motherfuckers turned him into a monster with your prejudice" and it was the last of the books I read because it was so depressing. yea thats outcast of redwall also he had a deformed paw which was also a sign that he would be evil
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Apr 3, 2023 17:36
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I didn't like the poems and it sucked because sometimes it was just some crack going off for two pages of rhymes about why they're the best fighter in the forest and sometimes it was an important riddle. No more poems, Brian!!
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Apr 3, 2023 19:27
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Skip the poems/songs, go whole hog on the mole accent
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Apr 3, 2023 20:42
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I liked the otter who had such beautiful eyelashes he always looked like he was sleepy
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Apr 3, 2023 21:17
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Jonah Galtberg posted:real redwall fankids rocked this bad boy, I bet you could play some kind of sweet tabletop game with it: https://www.amazon.com/Build-Your-Own-Redwall-Abbey/dp/0399233792 would have killed for this if I knew about it. Instead I made my own models out of milk cartons, following whatever pen and ink illustration was in the chapter headings. I remember there were three different artists? and one of them was was fine, one was dull, and one was like rocket fuel for my imagination. e: ok according to the wiki there were five different chapter icon artists: Gary Chalk  Chris Baker aka FANGORN  Allan Curless  David Elliot  Sean Rubin 
rollick fucked around with this message at 21:58 on Apr 3, 2023 |
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Apr 3, 2023 21:46
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Inexplicable Humblebrag posted:getting a very clear message from reading these books... that people should be judged not on their actions, but on their appearance. ok. i can work with this. Inexplicable Humblebrag posted:everyone is normal except voles, who are hobbit size, and moles, who are d&d dwarf size. hares and otters and foxes are tall normal. badgers are large, like ogres Dr. Jerrold Coe posted:At some point I started rooting for the villains since they were always so obviously doomed and many of the heroes were such smug pricks who delighted in slaughtering vermin. Pearls of Lutra was my favorite because the protagonist didn't come off like a kid who enjoys pulling the wings off flies, and I enjoyed any of the storylines about long voyages more than the mostly abbey-bound ones. I made it to Marlfox before I just got tired of the same poo poo happening every time, didn't finish it. the holy poopacy posted:Yes, and then he betrayed the good animals for no reason and went back to join the evil horde, as everyone had predicted because it's in his nature skasion posted:Later in the series (Taggerung) they do the reverse (vermin raise a good guy baby) and surprise surprise it turns out they are unable to verminize him and he stays good and turns on the vermin. There is however a weirdly heavy scene in the middle where it turns out that the comic relief sidekick (also from a good guy species) used to get abused by his dad and ran away from home, and then they plan to go back there and teach him a lesson only to find that the home is a ruin and the abusive dad got butchered. skasion posted:Outcast of Redwall (the one where he tries to confront the race problem) is super loving depressing. the abbey gets stuck with a verminous child who was abandoned during one of the raids, and they basically all hate him prejudicially from minute one except this poor dumb bleeding heart kid who mothers him. The wise old badger in residence even names him with this cryptic couplet that basically says he’s probably gonna turn out evil. It’s effectively jarring to see all the nice proper abbey guys being so openly racist and mean to a kid, and no surprise when he turns out hating them all and doing crimes. So eventually they have enough of him and throw him the gently caress out to become a hobo. He goes looking for his real dad who is a mercenary bastard who never cared about him, and eventually kills him for being in the way, right in front of his bleeding heart wannabe-mother who abandoned her home to try and help him. In the end they put her (the bleeding heart, who is a teenager btw) in charge of the whole abbey, probably because they all feel so guilty about the poo poo they put her through. Anyways I stopped reading Redwall after Taggerung, which turned out to be the perfect time because like two books after I did he finally introduced an evil wolverine and apparently the entirety of defeating him - in a setting where a BADGER is an unstoppable murdering machine that takes armies in one end and churns red mist out the other - was 'protagonist uses Martin Sword on his neck and chops his head off.' Of all the missed opportunities that was the most missed opportunity.
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Apr 3, 2023 23:47
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rotinaj posted:
did... did he think the evil animals were going to win?
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Apr 4, 2023 03:34
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years before the cookbook as a kid came out my stepmom and I invented our own version of the hotroot soup with chicken and dumplings. was my first memory of being taught to cook and we had so much fun picking out the ingredients at the store based on how we imagined it 
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Apr 4, 2023 05:48
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rollick posted:would have killed for this if I knew about it. Instead I made my own models out of milk cartons, following whatever pen and ink illustration was in the chapter headings. the second artist was my fav i always wanted to draw like them these three artists are the only ones im familiar with though the third pic would make for a sick av
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Apr 4, 2023 06:19
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the holy poopacy posted:did... did he think the evil animals were going to win? He said something about how good the writing was and sperglord 13 year old me went “yeah, it’s rad when cluny the scourge gets crushed by a bell!” That’s literally how the villain of the book is defeated and i pretty well ruined the climax of the book for him. Sorry, Jason. I was a spergy dork. I don’t even like spoiling things for people normally, and have gone on to try to make up insane spoilers that are worlds apart from how the actual piece of media ends.
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Apr 4, 2023 14:59
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I wish the evil species weren't predestined to be evil 
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Apr 4, 2023 17:03
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Apr 4, 2023 17:04
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