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bobua
Mar 23, 2003
I'd trade it all for just a little more.

quote:

Pregnancy prevention programs and messages directed toward teens may also have played a role. A 2014 Brookings report found that reality TV shows that follow the struggles of teen mothers like the MTV programs 16 and Pregnant and Teen Mom may have contributed to up to a third of the decline in teen births from June 2009, when they began airing, through the end of 2010.

This + the internet\media in general, circumventing fundies that think its a good idea to pretend sex doesn't exist for 17 year olds.


Another huge thing that I don't ever see talked about when discussing kids not having as much sex... there's actually other things to do. When I was a kid in bible belt small town, there was zilch to do outside of school sports, which there were very few of. My friends high school aged kids are all busy now 24/7.

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Petey
Nov 26, 2005

For who knows what is good for a person in life, during the few and meaningless days they pass through like a shadow? Who can tell them what will happen under the sun after they are gone?

Shrecknet posted:

Let's read about sex work from actual sex workers instead of goons!

Lorelei Lee: Cash & Consent

Jon Ronson: The Butterfly Effect, about how the tube sites ruined porn

I strongly recommend https://uncpress.org/book/9781469661926/porn-work/

quote:

Porn Work: Sex, Labor, and Late Capitalism
Dr. Heather Berg

AWARDS & DISTINCTIONS
2022 C.L.R. James Best Book for Academic or General Audience Award, Working-Class Studies Association

Every porn scene is a record of people at work. But on-camera labor is only the beginning of the story. Porn Work takes readers behind the scenes to explore what porn performers think of their work and how they intervene to hack it. Blending extensive fieldwork with feminist and antiwork theorizing, Porn Work details entrepreneurial labor on the boundaries between pleasure and tedium. Rejecting any notion that sex work is an aberration from straight work, it reveals porn workers' creative strategies as prophetic of a working landscape in crisis. In the end, it looks to what porn has to tell us about what's wrong with work, and what it might look like to build something better.

Fork of Unknown Origins
Oct 21, 2005
Gotta Herd On?

bobua posted:

This + the internet\media in general, circumventing fundies that think its a good idea to pretend sex doesn't exist for 17 year olds.


Another huge thing that I don't ever see talked about when discussing kids not having as much sex... there's actually other things to do. When I was a kid in bible belt small town, there was zilch to do outside of school sports, which there were very few of. My friends high school aged kids are all busy now 24/7.

This is an interesting observation, as the opposite has been mentioned frequently as being a problem. The decline of “places to be” like malls is often pointed to as being a problem. I think aspects of both are right. There is a lot more regimented, scheduled activity than 20 years ago. But if your parents aren’t getting you in those then there’s less to do.

Soonmot
Dec 19, 2002

Entrapta fucking loves robots




Grimey Drawer
I think the two things play into each other. You can't just go hang out because 1) there's no place that allows groups of teens in without needing to spend money 2) there no time because you have thirty extracurriculars that you need to attend to start padding your college app.

C. Everett Koop
Aug 18, 2008

bobua posted:

This + the internet\media in general, circumventing fundies that think its a good idea to pretend sex doesn't exist for 17 year olds.


Another huge thing that I don't ever see talked about when discussing kids not having as much sex... there's actually other things to do. When I was a kid in bible belt small town, there was zilch to do outside of school sports, which there were very few of. My friends high school aged kids are all busy now 24/7.

We also need to mention the teen obesity rate. Raging horomones can only do so much if you don't find anyone in your peer group attractive.

Grape
Nov 16, 2017

Happily shilling for China!

C. Everett Koop posted:

We also need to mention the teen obesity rate. Raging horomones can only do so much if you don't find anyone in your peer group attractive.

lol is this a serious post?

Zedsdeadbaby
Jun 14, 2008

You have been called out, in the ways of old.
Bruh, fat kids are getting laid all the time

thisusedyet
Feb 14, 2012

My post... it sucks!!!

Zedsdeadbaby posted:

Bruh, fat kids are getting laid all the time

As a former fat kid, I call bullshit

tokin opposition
Apr 8, 2021

The dialectical struggle of history has always, essentially, been a question of how to apply justice to matter. Take away matter and what remains is justice.

SidneyIsTheKiller posted:

This is just a tangential FYI, but you don't need quotes around "straight" here. The vast majority of men who are into transwomen are plain ol' heterosexual guys. Gay men don't tend to be interested in transwomen (because, well, they're women).

Edit: VVVV Oh, certainly. It's just that an interest in transwomen on its own doesn't make a man bisexual; or at best, it just barely moves the needle.

Dropping in here to say that it's trans woman, an adjective modifying woman, rather than transwoman, a weird noun. I will never give up this fight for correct linguistic distinction.

https://www.vox.com/2015/2/18/8055691/transgender-transgendered-tnr

Yngwie Mangosteen
Aug 23, 2007

thisusedyet posted:

As a former fat kid, I call bullshit

As a former fat kid, hate to tell you that op is right. It wasn't the fat that kept you a virgin.

Grape
Nov 16, 2017

Happily shilling for China!
I was a hot skinny guy. Crippling anxiety meant I first got laid at 24.

Freakazoid_
Jul 5, 2013


Buglord
We have an entire generation growing up not giving a poo poo about keeping virginity and here we are, a bunch of old heads, still finger pointing at each other over who did or didn't get laid at the right time.

Unless there's something more systemic and troubling at work, I say let them be.

Grape
Nov 16, 2017

Happily shilling for China!

Freakazoid_ posted:

We have an entire generation growing up not giving a poo poo about keeping virginity and here we are, a bunch of old heads, still finger pointing at each other over who did or didn't get laid at the right time.

Unless there's something more systemic and troubling at work, I say let them be.

I'd like to think that's what's up.

Eric Cantonese
Dec 21, 2004

You should hear my accent.

Freakazoid_ posted:

We have an entire generation growing up not giving a poo poo about keeping virginity

Are they?

That'd be nice if people got over thinking of it as a major benchmark that needs to be met before a certain point in time.

My impression from all the media panic articles though was that kids were just growing afraid of physically being around each other.

OneEightHundred
Feb 28, 2008

Soon, we will be unstoppable!

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

anyone want to guess the rates of teen pregnancy, stds, and flat out teen on teen rape and abuse hit our generation? you already know the answer. everyone knows the answer.

I don't know the right answer for sex ed in schools or a realistic, healthy way to tell kids about porn, but I praise loud klan Jesus man for teaching me the exact wrong answer
Reminds me I was just reading a retrospective on the collapse of MTV:

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/40-mtv-officially-over-hill-180978539/

quote:

A 2014 study by the National Bureau of Economic Research tied a 5.7 percent reduction in teen pregnancies to MTV’s “16 and Pregnant,” which followed the lives and struggles of young mothers. When new episodes aired, researchers saw spikes in internet searches for abortion and birth control, as well as fewer teen pregnancies in areas with high rates of viewership.

Amazing what information does.

Shrecknet
Jan 2, 2005


The Butcher posted:

Deepfaking your actor of choice who doesn't do porn or whatever other sort of celeb is also reallllly creepy weird, and you should feel dirty and bad for doing that, but I think that's pretty inevitable, because humans.


Too bad, it's here.

I wonder, though, if you think Deepfaking your actor of choice is realllly creepy if it's slashfic of Kirk/Spock written by women 40 years ago? Or whatever nonsense AO3 is pumping out about kissing Harry Styles?

Nervous
Jan 25, 2005

Why, hello, my little slice of pecan pie.
Finally my Jar Jar/Kermit slashfic can become a reality.

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane
It was always going to happen, the only question is: what restrictions do we put on it, legally speaking, to limit harm?

aventari
Mar 20, 2001

I SWIFTLY PENETRATED YOUR MOMS MEAT TACO WHILE AGGRESSIVELY FONDLING THE UNDERSIDE OF YOUR DADS HAIRY BALLSACK, THEN RIPPED HIS SAUSAGE OFF AND RAMMED IT INTO YOUR MOMS TAILPIPE. I JIZZED FURIOUSLY, DEEP IN YOUR MOMS MEATY BURGER WHILE THRUSTING A ANSA MUFFLER UP MY GREASY TAILHOLE
First define the harm

110923_3
Nov 10, 2023
nobody is talking about how porn almost no longer exists

Zoeb
Oct 8, 2023
I have a number of friends who are sex workers or who have only fans. I see porn, at least outside of the big business/California/LA poo poo to be a real positive for the world. It was a lifeline for my friends though ideally we would just have a proper welfare state and universal healthcare. We do need to better regulate and monitor the business though, such as breaking up monopolies and removing stolen videos but it is hard to have that conversation without feeding prudes and jesus freaks who want to ban it outright and have a viewpoint hostile to sexual freedom.

Name Change posted:

Modern sex ed needs to address porn in any substantive way

I do agree with this. Porn is not real life. It is not representative of how people actually have sex. Some people have distorted views about sex that came from porn.

Zoeb fucked around with this message at 05:36 on Nov 10, 2023

gurragadon
Jul 28, 2006

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/campaigns/virginia-election-david-owen-defeats-susanna-gibson-house

quote:

Republican David Owen defeated Democrat Susanna Gibson, giving Republicans a needed seat in the Virginia House of Delegates.

Owen, a businessman, defeated Gibson, a nurse practitioner, in the Short Pump-based 57th District, chalking up a win in one of the closest races of the cycle.

This Richmond suburb race gained national attention after the revelation that Gibson had performed sex acts with her husband online for money. Owen has not made the scandal a focus of his campaign, telling NBC12, "As far as whether it disqualifies her or not, that will be up to the voters in the district."

In the immediate aftermath of the exposure of the pornographic videos, Gibson's fundraising numbers surged through the roof, but her support plummeted among voters, clocking in at 38.9% to Owen's 49.5% support.

Democrats in Virginia were vague about their support for Gibson after the scandal broke, maintaining their focus on winning majorities in both chambers. Some, however, were supportive, such as Democratic state Senate President Pro Tempore L. Louise Lucas, who asked supporters to "make this the biggest fundraising day of [Gibson’s] campaign.”

Gibson, at one point, held the endorsement of Rep. Abigail Spanberger (D-VA), but current support is unclear as the congresswoman deleted a post on X supporting Gibson.

Owen earned the backing of Gov. Glenn Youngkin (R-VA), Republican Lt. Gov. Winsome Sears, Republican Attorney General Jason Miyares, and former U.S. House Majority Leader Rep. Eric Cantor, a Republican.

Gibson, like most Virginia Democrats, made abortion access the central theme of the campaign, saying, "As a nurse practitioner, I know better than anyone that politicians have no place making decisions about women’s bodies and their healthcare." She also advocated gun restrictions.

Owen focused his campaign primarily on the economy but also included education and lowering crime as top priorities, saying, "They’re concerned about what they’re paying for prices for groceries, prices for gas, and we will have the conversation about people going in spending $100 and walk out with one little bag of groceries."



Looks like having a sex tape is still going to hurt politicians. Susanna Gibson lost her race in the Virginia House of Delegates against David Owen this year. Republicans were really playing up the video and were sending out mailers that showed scenes from the video, but I don't think there was any actual nudity in the mailers. Otherwise, this race seemed pretty standard this year in Virginia with a pro-abortion Democrat but that didn't seem to overcome the sex tape.

https://www.dailydot.com/debug/susanna-gibson-virginia-mailers/

LanceHunter
Nov 12, 2016

Beautiful People Club


It should be noted that the Washington Examiner is a NewsMax-level conservative rag. Gibson lost by less than 3 points (under 970 votes) in a race that was so close it was one of the last to be called. Now, given her district's history she probably should have won handily, so her past sex work did definitely hurt her. Hopefully we will eventually have a world where someone who has done sex work will be able to run for office without that work hurting their chances of winning. Unfortunately, we aren't in that world just yet.

gurragadon
Jul 28, 2006

That was just one of the links I clicked on after google and it was more concise than others, but here's the story from the AP because I wasn't aware of the Washington Examiners reputation.

https://apnews.com/article/susanna-gibson-david-owen-virginia-election-2023-5db9aec5a490a3a4cc9a695c0e1b7a17

quote:

RICHMOND, Va. (AP) — Republican David Owen held a narrow lead over Democrat Susanna Gibson in a Virginia House of Delegates race that drew attention after revelations that Gibson engaged in sex acts with her husband on a pornographic website, but the margin left the race too early to call.

Gibson ran against Owen in one of the state’s most competitive districts after all 100 seats in the House of Delegates were redrawn to conform with the 2020 Census.

Many political scientists wrote off Gibson’s chances after news outlets reported in September about her participation in livestreamed sex, which included soliciting payments from viewers in exchange for specific acts.

But Gibson, a nurse practitioner, refused to withdraw from the race, and accused Republicans of dirty politics for exposing her conduct. She largely ignored the allegations and focused on abortion rights, which Democrats said could be in jeopardy if Republicans gained control of the Legislature. Republican Gov. Glenn Youngkin has been seeking a ban on abortions after 15 weeks of pregnancy, with exceptions in cases of rape, incest, or when the mother’s life is in danger.

The race had been pegged as one of several that could determine control in the House of Delegates. But even if Owen hangs on to win, Republicans statewide lost control of the House of Delegates. Democrats have won at least 51 of the 100 seats in the chamber.

Owen issued a statement on X, the platform previously known as Twitter, thanking voters and claiming victory.

“I will begin work immediately to provide the unity, common-sense leadership, and responsive service that I promised,” he said.

Democrats also maintained their narrow margin in the state Senate.

Those legislative victories will allow Democrats to block Youngkin’s policy agenda, though they will have to work with him to advance their own.

Sonny Yeary, 59, a graphic designer from Henrico, said he voted straight Republican, including for Owen, Gibson’s opponent. Yeary said he probably would have voted for Owen anyway but that Gibson’s sex videos bothered him.

“It was the way it came out,” Yeary said. “If it had been out there already, that would have been one thing. But don’t act like Miss Wholesome and then have this come out.”

Donna Taylor, 54, an office manager from Henrico County, just outside Richmond, said she voted for Gibson.

“I figure if we can put up with the hundreds of years of Republican scandals, what she is doing with consenting adults and her private lifestyle does not affect my opinion of her whatsoever and her ability to do the job that she said she is going to do,” Taylor said.

Republicans sought to remind voters of Gibson’s videos. The Republican Party of Virginia sent mailers to voters that contained screenshots. The envelopes warned recipients that explicit materials were contained inside and that minors should not open the envelope.

Gibson answered the GOP attacks to some extent Monday in an op-ed piece for the left-leaning website Blue Virginia, labeling her GOP attackers as “politicians who feel they have a right to know what goes on in our private lives and the power to control what we do with our bodies.”

The 57th District includes parts of Richmond’s western suburbs in Henrico and Goochland counties. The nonpartisan Virginia Public Access Project rated it the third most competitive of Virginia’s 100 House of Delegates districts, with only a very slight lean toward Republicans, based on recent voting patterns. Virginia voters do not register by party.

Reading the quotes make it seems like sex work isn't going to turn off supporters of a candidate for a lot of people, but it might galvanize the other side, especially conservative Republicans. Seems like we are making our way to a world where sex work isn't going to completely ruin a candidate though, even though I agree we are not there yet. Your right that it was close and Gibson running on abortion protection nearly overcame the attacks from Republicans. The district is the redder part of Henrico and Goochland, so it was tougher than other ones around Richmond.

111023
Nov 10, 2023
jackin off to the same poo poo i was jackin off to 600 days ago

Freakazoid_
Jul 5, 2013


Buglord
it is more ethical to see 2d porn than 3d

111023_4
Nov 11, 2023
the latest advancement in porn? cartoons.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

doverhog
May 31, 2013

Defender of democracy and human rights 🇺🇦

111023_4 posted:

the latest advancement in porn? cartoons.

How confident are you that the people animating porn cartoons are working in good conditions and receiving fair wages for their work?

Tnega
Oct 26, 2010

Pillbug

doverhog posted:

How confident are you that the people animating porn cartoons are working in good conditions and receiving fair wages for their work?

Nice try, but I know there is no ethical consumption under capitalism. As far as I know, Fritz the Cat had only the normal animation industry awfulness, so you can still watch that.

BigRed0427
Mar 23, 2007

There's no one I'd rather be than me.

How about leftist opposition to sex work? I use to run in a few leftist organizations and I've heard the argument made that sex work can never be consensual because it will always be under some duress. Either another person or the free market itself.

I think that's bullshit but has anyone else ever heard that?

Also, does anyone else get the feeling that opposition to porn and sex work is going to get worse with all the BS made about "Human Trafficing" in right wing political circles?

doverhog
May 31, 2013

Defender of democracy and human rights 🇺🇦

BigRed0427 posted:

How about leftist opposition to sex work? I use to run in a few leftist organizations and I've heard the argument made that sex work can never be consensual because it will always be under some duress. Either another person or the free market itself.

This applies to all "work" and life itself.

Serotoning
Sep 14, 2010

D&D: HASBARA SQUAD
HANG 'EM HIGH


We're fighting human animals and we act accordingly

doverhog posted:

This applies to all "work" and life itself.

Lol you just can't get ahead of these arguments. "ActUALlY, ThAT's CApitALISM ToO". As if we are supposed to have every one of our needs met by everyone else as a reward for... existing?

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

Regarde Aduck
Oct 19, 2012

c l o u d k i t t e n
Grimey Drawer

Pvt. Parts posted:

Lol you just can't get ahead of these arguments. "ActUALlY, ThAT's CApitALISM ToO". As if we are supposed to have every one of our needs met by everyone else as a reward for... existing?

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

I mean that is entirely possible, especially with the technology we have now, and would ensure the most happiness for the most people. But don't worry, people like you are in the majority so it's gonna continue with 10% 'happy' and 90% of humanity at various levels of poverty and misery.

blatman
May 10, 2009

14 inc dont mez


Pvt. Parts posted:

Lol you just can't get ahead of these arguments. "ActUALlY, ThAT's CApitALISM ToO". As if we are supposed to have every one of our needs met by everyone else as a reward for... existing?

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

that would own

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.
WaPo article on a case study of the successful OnlyFans production side business model, followed by a more detailed discussion of the platform and its role normalizing this form of porn production:

Inside an OnlyFans empire: Sex, influence and the new American Dream

quote:

n the mornings, the workers of Bryce Adams’s OnlyFans empire buzz in through a camera-wired security gate, roll up the winding driveway that cost $120,000 to pave and park outside Adams’s $2.5 million home-office-studio complex. A large American flag waves from a pole above their office door. So does a banner depicting Adams, in tight shorts, from behind.

On OnlyFans, subscribers pay for monthly access to feeds of creators’ videos — many of them sex videos, known as “collabs” — as well as pay-to-watch clips the “fans” can buy a la carte. And as one of the platform’s most popular creators, Adams runs her business like a machine.

Inside, a storyboard designer opens the day’s publishing plans for not just OnlyFans but all of their customer feeder sites — Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, Twitter and YouTube. Editors start splicing video into short looping clips, optimized for virality. Collabs are sent to paying fans.

Brian Adam, Bryce’s longtime boyfriend (who, like Bryce, uses a stage name for privacy), stops at each employee’s desk to review the day’s assignments, vetoing any posts or captions that seem “cringe” or “off brand.” In an office loft, four young women start texting with Adams’s paid subscribers, who talk about sex and their personal lives in conversations that often exceed a thousand messages a day.

This being a sex business, their workdays are filled with what others might see as debauchery, but which they see as just work: Two (or three) people will slip into a bedroom next to the kitchen or the gym with a cameraman, or just their cellphones, to record a collab or start live-streaming themselves exercising in the nude.

The article only touches on the ongoing uneven pay that distributed independent contractor platforms like this one sustain themselves on, in a manner that feeds into the platform's frame:

quote:

Like most platforms, OnlyFans suffers from a problem of incredible pay inequality, with the bulk of the profits concentrated in the bank accounts of the lucky few. In 2020, the independent researcher Tom Hollands scraped the website’s payment data and concluded that the top 1 percent of accounts made 33 percent of the money, and that most accounts took home less than $145 a month. (OnlyFans declined to provide its own analysis, and Hollands said the company has since made it harder to access this data or conduct new research.)

For those who do make it, however, the rewards can be life-changing. When the OnlyFans creator Elle Brooke was pushed during a TV interview in June to explain how a future child of hers might feel about her work, her response — “They can cry in a Ferrari” — became an OnlyFans rallying cry. Stella Sol, a dominatrix, tweeted, “It’s always so funny how mad people get at beautiful Women happily winning the game of life.”

There's a lot of other weirdness to chew through, from employing Adam's mother as a cleaner to their guns to the relative pay of the employees on the nested brand.

Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Nov 11, 2023

PhazonLink
Jul 17, 2010
my two cents is that I think its sad that there's a niche of demand for daily parasocial textchats and the “They can cry in a Ferrari” makes me think some of these people arent doing the smart fin thing and saving enough so when they do retire they have a decent nest egg. toy super cars , boats, mcmansions are dumb.

doverhog
May 31, 2013

Defender of democracy and human rights 🇺🇦

Pvt. Parts posted:

Lol you just can't get ahead of these arguments. "ActUALlY, ThAT's CApitALISM ToO". As if we are supposed to have every one of our needs met by everyone else as a reward for... existing?

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

Existence itself is a material condition placed on us by forces beyond our control. Whether your needs should be met is a separate question as to to whether someone should be allowed to, for example, do sex work without being harassed by the state.

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.
We need a rework of the sonic meme, replacing "consumption" with "masturbation"

The Kingfish
Oct 21, 2015


BigRed0427 posted:

How about leftist opposition to sex work? I use to run in a few leftist organizations and I've heard the argument made that sex work can never be consensual because it will always be under some duress. Either another person or the free market itself.

I think that's bullshit but has anyone else ever heard that?


That argument is an oversimplification, but I think there is a genuine discussion to be had as to whether the labor of performing sexual gratification is meaningfully different from other forms of labor.

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111223
Nov 12, 2023
99% of this planet lacks access to sex workers

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