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NeatHeteroDude
Jan 15, 2017

Hi everyone. I'm not going to go super deep into my credentials or experience, but everyone basically knows I am currently/have been a special education teacher and behavior specialist working with kids from k-12th grade in American public schools, in-home, and behavior intervention clinics.

I also take great pride in my work, which comes through in how I write. There are maybe three things in the world that I'm really, really good at, and one is teaching!

This thread is for asking questions about stuff like:

Pulling back the curtain on how special education programs are run -

- How does a child get referred for evaluation, what screening is performed, how do we figure out what services to provide, where does the money come from, etc.? It's a super opaque process, but if people want to know more, I'd be really happy to write a short summary in the next few days that describes the process from "parent or teacher expresses concern that child's support needs aren't being met" to "student receives 90 minutes a week of specially designed literacy instruction, 30 minutes a week of individual mental health support, 90 minutes a week of group, etc.

- How does having an Individualized Education Program (the plan you always have if receiving sped services) change the school's legal obligations to treat you well?

- What if a student with a disability injures someone as a result of something rooted in their disability? Are they punished like a general education student?

- What do zero-tolerance policies mean for kids with disabilities, their behavior, and disciplinary procedures?

Explaining why kids are "placed" in different settings (self-contained classroom, specialized room, normal general education homeroom, etc.) to receive support

- Why does one student receive 1-on-1 staffing from an instructional aide in their general education classroom during math instruction, but another leaves class at 10:00 am every day to work and be taught in a "resource" room in the small group setting?

- Why does a child with intense physical aggression but no developmental disability receive all instruction in a clinic or self-contained classroom with 1 on 1 supervision from a paraprofessional?

- What is the idea behind placing in the "least restrictive environment," and why is there so much emphasis on upholding it?

- Why does MY BRANDON have to deal with this little disabled poo poo who is ALWAYS distracting him when we could just put them with the other "special" kids in a different room? (will unironically answer this question!)

Describing a "quality teacher" and what makes teachers effective

- EVIDENCE-BASED PRACTICES
- PROFESSIONAL DEVELOPMENT
- READING RESEARCH ABOUT EFFECTIVE INSTRUCTION AND IMPLEMENTING BEHAVIORIST-BASED CLASSROOM MANAGEMENT

Talking about safety, restraint training, behaviorism, lockdown drills, bullying, and supporting students who need us

- What is "restraint training"? Why is 90% about crisis de-escalation and only 10% about putting kids in "holds"?

- What does a well-trained teacher try to do when there's a safety risk to students or staff from students or the public?

- How can behaviorism be used to teach kids how to cope with stress, practice emotion regulation skills, talk about their feelings, and get their needs met?

- Do "anti-bullying" practices and programs work?

- Lockdown drills... why? Are they effective? How do we implement them in a way that actually makes kids safer?

- What do you do with a student who expresses that they want to hurt themselves or others? How can you support their needs and keep them and others safe? What if they talk about shooting their classmates?

NeatHeteroDude has issued a correction as of 01:23 on Apr 17, 2023

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NeatHeteroDude
Jan 15, 2017

Special Education (SPED) Placement:

NeatHeteroDude posted:

If they have a tbi or medical issue that affects their behavior enough that it's a clear issue, I think the goal is that it's quickly recognized by school staff so that they can be screened for special ed funding and eligibility. Special education is sometimes a self-contained classroom for kids with severe or multiple disabilities, but it's more frequently access to services like behavior intervention, counseling, specially designed instruction, etc., that kids go to at specific times throughout the week and after return to their "homeroom" space.

Like most students are not being taught in one room full of other kids with disabilities for 7 hours each day at school unless they have such high support needs that this place would be the best environment for them to work toward their functional and academic skill goals. Generally, they might just get some support in difficult classes like math or literacy in their homeroom. They could also spend their math time in a different setting (a small group instruction room or something) working with kids at a similar ability level with more attention from teachers trained to teach kids in that population.

The concept in special education is called "least restrictive environment," which basically means students must always be "placed" as much as possible in their normal classroom. We start there and only adjust placement if the kid is totally unable to access services in that environment, in which case we figure out which specific instruction they can't access there and move them somewhere for as little time as possible during the week and ONLY for those specific services

NeatHeteroDude posted:

I think lots of people have lots of assumptions about What Schools Can Do for kids with behavior struggles because no one has taken the many courses on special education program design, IEP writing, services, and relevant laws/caselaw.

Basically, special ed eligibility is pretty specific but encompasses a lot of different support needs, not just serving kids with severe disabilities. Kids can receive counseling, behavior intervention, speech therapy, home support (sometimes), etc., without being nonverbal or having a developmental disability.

We don't really like to refer kids for screening for eligibility if they're just, like, anxious in school (we'd make accommodations and find solutions within the kids current education framework), but a child who struggles with severe physical aggression as a result of tbi or sports or whatever will probably qualify for services. When kids qualify for services, we meet as a team and determine what those services will be, where they'll happen, who will provide them, what goals we're working toward, and 10,000 other things.

Part of that discussion might be "well they're barely below grade level in math, but are two standard deviations down from an average 4th grader's performance in tests of reading fluency, comprehension, expressive verbal language. Sounds like they need specially designed instruction aimed at building those foundational skills so they can participate more in the "general education" (non special ed) curriculum in the future. We'll have a literacy content area specialist provide 90 minutes of ELA instruction in a small group setting in the student's normal classroom. We want them to progress toward X goal by the end of the school year."

And a long term goal might be:

"Given a 3rd grade level narrative text, student will decode (read) at least 30 correct words per minute on a curriculum based assessment of reading fluency with 90% accuracy across three consecutive weekly tests as measured by teacher reading probe."

That's not a great one but basically all sped instruction we do has to provably be aimed at progressing toward those kinds of goals

NeatHeteroDude
Jan 15, 2017

LOCKDOWN DRILLS

Are there evidence-based practices for implementing them successfully? Sort of!

Elendil004 posted:

Let's talk about lockdown drills. Likely, they're here to stay. Much like the massive fires of the early 1900's drove fire safety, active shooters have driven the need for lockdown drills. Since it's nearly impossible to walk back safety even if the number of active shooter / hostile events dropped sharply, we're always going to have lockdown drills. So what can we do to make them less traumatic. After all, fire drills are rarely traumatic, and historically school fires have killed sometimes hundreds of students, so they're dangerous and we take them seriously but they don't have students texting their parents about giving their playstation to their friends.

The National Association Of School Psychologists, and the National Association of School Resource Officers, and Safe and Sound Schools Best Practice Considerations for Armed Assailant Drills in Schools.
all emphasis mine

A running theme here is that doing things poorly can be almost worse than doing nothing at all. A poorly run active shooter drill is going to traumatize and gently caress people up, a well run drill where the students are slowly brought into it, at an age-appropriate level, can make people feel safe.

They lay out 8 steps...

The multidisciplinary team is super important because the SROs and law enforcement are going to be hyper focused on the tactics, run/hide/fight, stop the killing, but the school mental health professionals and parents are going to be able to say “ok but do we really need to fire blanks into the air during the drill? (the answer is no)

As mentioned earlier in the thread, this stuff all costs money, so ensuring that costs are kept low or even that drills dovetail with other emergencies (in places prone to tornadoes, practicing for a shelter in place for a tornado can also provide muscle memory in an active shooter situation, with less trauma, and meet the existing safety goals for example).

The document dive deeper into some of the points from above but I think a key thing that it says that some school districts need to be considering is the idea of options-based drills.

Some people have this idea that surprise drills are somehow more effective when if you think about it for two seconds it’s obvious they are not. If you tell a teacher on monday, that on friday there’s going to be a lockdown drill, the are going to spend time that week running their own mental checks, talking to students about it, getting ready. They know which students are going to have a harder time and they can spend extra time on that. They know the new teachers might need extra coaching and can handle that. Then, on drill day, they go through with flying colors because they had that time to prepare.

Seems kind of obvious but sometimes people forget the point here.

NeatHeteroDude posted:

This is an incredibly good post about the kind of evidence-based implementation that should be guiding school responses to the risk of a mass shooting. There are guidelines published on every subject imaginable, and lockdown drills/mass shooter events are no different. While there are members of district/admin staff (principals, school board sometimes, others, etc.) who just do not get it and have no interest in learning beyond their preconceived notion of what is/is not effective, many are super open to discussion and change if it's presented competently. But that's damning with faint praise- many educators are resistant to changing their instructional and classroom management practices even when presented with piles of evidence that, for example, some students with attention-seeking behavior are reinforced by negative attention, meaning a loud, public dressing-down for swearing in class will cause them to swear more in the future.

Via research, we've essentially known for the last three decades what teaching practices are most effective on a classroom level for things like math, P.E., health, literacy, etc. My field, behaviorism and special education, is similarly mapped out.

I say this because it's important to realize that quality education is evidence-based, i.e., fifty valid, controlled studies have analyzed the implementation of number blocks for progressing 1st-grade students toward 1-1 parity between objects and symbolic representations of numbers, and found that kids need something concrete to touch and move before they can known that the character "1" means "1 thing."

My sort of reductive take on stuff

NeatHeteroDude posted:

imho the best way to prevent students from snapping and shooting up their own school is to spend money on support specialists and counseling staff who have a light enough caseload to visit with classroom teachers, paraprofessionals, lunch duty staff, etc., to collect information and train them. every student should have really good rapport with at least one adult in the school, and the moment a threat assessment gets completed, those adults should be notified and more resources should be assigned to observe, check-in in, etc., with that kid.

kids shooting up a school is partially a failing of the school to provide an environment with lots of natural supports that could have dealt with the concerns long before the student decided to bring a gun and kill all their classmates. what's struck me most about the kids who do this is that everyone is sort of aware that this is happening, especially their classroom teachers! but no one gets the training and the support they need to try and help their student cope with whatever's going on.

unfortunately, it's hard to research the efficacy of, say, school wide evidence-based antibullying practices in preventing mass shootings of the type i described above. but i'm sure there are data examining the relationship between certain interventions and decreased aggression, SRO calls, etc., in middle and high school

NeatHeteroDude posted:

and lockdown drills are fine as long as they're short and emphasize specific behaviors that may actually save lives during a shooting (teachers locking doors and covering windows, students being as silent as humanly possible, rally points for folks in the hallway, etc.). instead, we get big loud ones about like disarming the shooter with textbooks or something which i don't think anyone needs to drill to do. I assume most people are just going to do the human response and cry try to hide, and the people who will be chucking books did not need a screaming cqc instructor to practice that behavior before a shooting

NeatHeteroDude posted:

lol yep. it's especially sad because there are federal/state(?) guidelines for how schools need to implement multi-tiered supports (known sometimes as MTSS) but outside of covid relief funds many districts just aren't using their bank to invest in the specialists who know how to run these things. there's also a requirement for all special education which applies broadly elsewhere that schools need to be using "data-based decision making" so any school implementing these programs should be collecting data on everything from detentions to physical aggression to gauge how well they're implementing their programs.

unfortunately data are awesome but only if you are meaningfully collecting and interpreting them through the eyes of people trained to do so. lots of principals are decent but have to farm out the task to normal staff who don't have the background to even make decent bar graphs showing # of suspensions vs month of program implementation lol

NeatHeteroDude posted:

if you can't make a scatter plot or line graph of something vs something else, then you're not qualified to interpret the data. most districts and local school staff make decisions entirely based on graphs that visually model what's happening, but very few people can meaningfully interpret anything that isn't literally the point the modeler was trying to make

NeatHeteroDude posted:

for example, a middle school reports shockingly high amounts of physical aggression in 6th grade that fall off by 8th+. someone might look at that and say "well, our 6th grade teachers must be loving terrible! let's swap them out!" when in reality the data show that kids enter at high levels of aggression and, because of the success of the supports at the school, gradually get better and better the longer they stay there

NeatHeteroDude has issued a correction as of 01:07 on Apr 17, 2023

FacelessVoid
Jul 8, 2009
school stinks

lobster shirt
Jun 14, 2021

hey nhd i read this freddie de boer post last week where he talks about how he used to work in sped and needed to restrain students sometimes, was wondering what you thought: https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/before-politics-theres-the-world

Eliot Rosewater
Apr 16, 2008

NeatHeteroDude posted:

lots of principals are decent

hi im a speech language pathologist and i strongly disagree with this statement

NeatHeteroDude
Jan 15, 2017

lobster shirt posted:

hey nhd i read this freddie de boer post last week where he talks about how he used to work in sped and needed to restrain students sometimes, was wondering what you thought: https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/before-politics-theres-the-world

I will check it out!

Eliot Rosewater posted:

hi im a speech language pathologist and i strongly disagree with this statement

hello! lots is probably a strong word but in context, i'm mostly referring to them being decent at talking about/understanding the analysis of data that other people explain to them. that may still be giving them too much credit, though. i've also lived and worked in communities where the local principals and principal's assistants are promoted internally and typically have some kind of sped background or experience. i know this isn't the case most of the time, though, we just live in a state where sped endorsements require a lot of extra stuff over just a bachelor's in elementary education or whatever

lobster shirt
Jun 14, 2021

Eliot Rosewater posted:

hi im a speech language pathologist and i strongly disagree with this statement

one of my friends was married to a speech language pathologist, she started her career working in hospitals but was like "this is too hosed up, i gotta go somewhere else", worked in a school for like a year and went right back into hospitals. what do you think about this trajectory?

A Bakers Cousin
Dec 18, 2003

by vyelkin
i didnt teach kids i only did a little college teaching but the first time I had to give a lock down / what to do if someone wants to murder us chitchat at the start of the semester I began to rethink my career

Eliot Rosewater
Apr 16, 2008
That's pretty cool they emphasize that, in my district that's not a priority at all. I'm having to walk my more-experienced-than-me admins through everything IEP constantly and most couldn't read a graph besides "line go down, good" or "line go up, bad."

I work in a middle school and love it, everyone's weird and hormonal so I'm practicing verbal de-escalation techniques daily

Eliot Rosewater
Apr 16, 2008

lobster shirt posted:

one of my friends was married to a speech language pathologist, she started her career working in hospitals but was like "this is too hosed up, i gotta go somewhere else", worked in a school for like a year and went right back into hospitals. what do you think about this trajectory?

I've seen a lot of SLPs do that but I will never go back to a hospital, as difficult as my students can be I would rather deal with awkwardness and hormones and filing CPS reports and my school site's unbelievable socioeconomic conditions, even for bakersfield, over grown men crying because of their aphasia, or watching people choke while eating pudding.

NeatHeteroDude
Jan 15, 2017

lobster shirt posted:

hey nhd i read this freddie de boer post last week where he talks about how he used to work in sped and needed to restrain students sometimes, was wondering what you thought: https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/before-politics-theres-the-world

oh yeah he's 100% right. when I do clinical work (1 on 1 with students with severe/multiple disabilities and extreme physical aggression), I'm blocking or safety moving or keeping elbows tucked or using elbow and shoulder checks (meaning I cup my hand and prepare to resist someone elbowing me in the face) like multiple times per day. The clinical environment exists because the high school kids we'd work with were far, far, FAR too dangerous to instruct, even in a self-contained classroom at a special school. we basically do 7 hours of ABA therapy with them- reinforcing for completing academic and functional demands (like writing an A, touching blocks to show the number "3", taking turns to play with toy cars, etc.) in a very controlled setting where there's little risk of them escalating and hurting themselves or someone else.

part of the reason the clinic works so well for ABA is that good, evidence-based behavior intervention requires that environmental variables be controlled as much as possible. it lets us focus on doing everything we worked with the parent to sign off on without having to account for another kid in the hallway, a change in the lunch menu, etc. the kids show up early, and they leave at 3. we run what is basically a normal behavior-intervention school day except we're ABA folks with constant supervision from board certified behavior analysts (the kings and queens of ABA, very hard to get this license). So the behavior work gets done really well.

There is an immense amount of training that goes into working with those kids and orders of magnitude more if you want to design effective programming that'll actually help improve their quality of life. We work on stuff like handwashing, communication using an iPad (most are nonverbal), motor skills, toileting, eating with a fork or spoon, playing games with others, etc.

People who haven't seen talented ABA technicians work or have seen "ABA" people who act like hot poo poo but can't do the most basic things get a bad idea about what actually goes on during a session. Though there have been myriad examples of certified ABA people doing hosed up and unethical poo poo, which is why the board keeps increasing their clock hour requirements for a BCBA license

Here's an example of some work I do around communication:

Me: Hi X, hi! (acquire attention and wave with emphasis, i hold up iPad so he can see words and phrases he uses to communicate)
X starts looking at iPad communicator.
Me: Woop woop! Thanks for looking at iPad.
X starts gesturing toward the "hello" button.
Me: (make silly noises the student like)
X presses hello button and then touches the "play sentence" button. the iPad says in a robotic voice "hello!"
Me: Awesome! Dude, thanks for saying hi to me! Woohoo, we're off to a good start!
Me: Now it's youtube time! I can't wait to see our favorite clip from Spongebob.

So in that example, I show up and deliver a verbal and gestural prompt "Hi", waving. I hold up the iPad so the client can clearly see his communication options. We work on a "hotter", and "colder" system, meaning I praise (or make reinforcing noises) as he gets closer to completing the demand (pressing the hello and play sentence buttons). So I'm praising him for looking at the iPad, gesturing toward the iPad, pressing the button, etc. When he completes the demand, I immediately reinforce with specific praise that highlights the behavior I'm reinforcing and immediately transition to a preferred activity (Spongebob youtube clips).

One program objective might be, "When provided with the naturalistic stimuli (prompt) "Hi!", X will independently press the hello and play sentence buttons in sequence on his iPad with no problem behavior in 10/10 consecutive sessions as recorded daily by behavior technician."

This is an example of in-home ABA work with a developmentally disabled high school student working on compliance with chore requests, communicating needs (I need a break instead of me prompting him after he gets escalated), functional/motor skills (lots of physical tasks), and hygiene (brushing teeth!). We're building a schedule of tasks that we'll complete during the 3 or 4-hour session. He gets to choose his preferred reinforcement after we finish chores. In this instance, he wants to go to a local Cat Cafe where we drink coffee together, play with cats, see if we can get them to fall asleep on our heads, and generally have a fun time.

Me: Alright dude, let's build schedule! Today, we need to pick up dog poop, mow grass, brush teeth, and put away laundry. Which first?
Y: Mow grass.
Me: Heck yeah dude, good job building schedule. We'll do grass first. What next?
Y: Dog poop.
Me: Awesome, that sounds good to me. Thanks for being so focused.
Y: then put away laundry.
Me: Oh my gosh, you just told me what you wanted to do without me even asking! I love the independence. Yeah, man, let's do that third.
Y: No brush teeth. Not stinky (starts to pace around room)
Me: (waiting)
Y: (pacing faster)
Me: Hey, Y, what should we do when we finish our chore schedule?
Y: Kitty Cafe.
Me: Absolutely, I would love to go to the kitty cafe with you. What do we need to do first?
Y: Finishing schedule and chores.
Me: That's true. Let's brush teeth last and then go to Kitty Cafe! See those cute little cats!
Y: Okay. Yes.
Me: Awesome job being flexible! We just built schedule! Woohoo! The more we do, the faster we get to the cafe.
Y: Need break.
Me: Thank you for letting me know. Because we built schedule so well, I'm happy to give you a break. Do you want 4 or 5 minutes?
Y: 5 minutes.
Me: Sounds good to me man; I'll let you know when you're at 2 minutes, 1 minute, and 30 seconds.
Y: Thanks.

His goals were centered around improving his quality of life at home. As a large, older high school kid moving toward transitioning away from sped services, he will eventually be living with his parents all day every day instead of going to school for 40 hours a week. So we needed to work really hard on communicating needs and compliance with parent/adult chore demands. Before we started, the student would absolutely never ever do a single thing their parents asked and, because this student is motivated by escae from demands, getting mad at him and yelling and sending him to his room for not doing chores was actually just reinforcing the behavior.

Instead, my BCBA did some parent training and designed programming that would build those really important functional skills while reducing the overall temperature in the home. For example, when we started I would make a demand and then, noticing he was going to explode, immediately prompt, "let's take a break! 4 or 5 minutes?" without expecting him to request one. As soon as he chose 4 or 5 minutes, I would immediately reinforce with praise and back off until the timer was over. Eventually we got to the point where he was independently requesting breaks when he felt stressed or anxious during the day.

Just giving him the communicative skills to request support (I need a break.), we totally cut out all the aggression, property destruction, and problem behavior that had basically made his home a warzone up until that point. He needed a break, but he'd never been taught how to get one, so he was being aggressive to get people to leave him alone.

Long post!

NeatHeteroDude has issued a correction as of 05:49 on Apr 17, 2023

NeatHeteroDude
Jan 15, 2017

Incredible ABA has a 4:1 ratio of praise to demands. Every time I ask prompt a kid to do something they don't want to do, I praise them four times for compliance or doing approximations of the behavior.

Most regular ABA sessions at my facility are just us telling kids they're awesome and having fun.

Nix Panicus
Feb 25, 2007

My wife did research and evaluation for a school district with about 50k students for a few years and one of the things that sticks out to me is that, according to her, the average intervention takes about about three years to show results, but the average superintendent only gets two years before they need to show progress or risk getting removed and many panic and change everything during the second year and hopes something sticks. She also said the single biggest obstacle to most interventions is the teachers not bothering to learn or implement a new program because they believe, usually correctly, the district will abandon the program and try something else in six months.

She's also done a lot of work in the 2gen nonprofit space and in nonprofit education consulting, and started her career in cognitive science

Adenoid Dan
Mar 8, 2012

The Hobo Serenader
Lipstick Apathy
Could you talk about your thoughts on the controversy around ABA?

I've heard bad things about it but I don't know much about it, and I don't know anyone who's personally experienced it.

Is that generally the result of people doing it wrong, are there wrong ways to do it or kids it's not appropriate for, etc?

Greg Legg
Oct 6, 2004

Nix Panicus posted:

My wife did research and evaluation for a school district with about 50k students for a few years and one of the things that sticks out to me is that, according to her, the average intervention takes about about three years to show results, but the average superintendent only gets two years before they need to show progress or risk getting removed and many panic and change everything during the second year and hopes something sticks. She also said the single biggest obstacle to most interventions is the teachers not bothering to learn or implement a new program because they believe, usually correctly, the district will abandon the program and try something else in six months.

Three years seems about right in my experience, but I think it depends on the age of the student. And my experience with interventions is somewhat similar to your wife's, there are some teachers who will immediately do anything I recommend, and there are others who won't even read the treatment plan I wrote. The burnout is pretty severe in the district I work in so I get it.

e:

NeatHeteroDude posted:

LOCKDOWN DRILLS

Right after Uvalde, I was walking down the hall with a student when a lady asked me if I got the lockdown alert on my phone. Before I could answer someone else started screaming lockdown, lockdown now, so we ran into the nearest room and put up a barricade by the door. I'm not full time at that school so I didn't know it was a loving drill.

Greg Legg has issued a correction as of 02:15 on Apr 19, 2023

Nix Panicus
Feb 25, 2007

She spent a lot of her tenure trying to develop metrics for teacher buy in on interventions and then find ways to increase it. She also repeatedly recommended ditching a lot of older or marginal programs. Given how much that district relied on outside funding from interventions she got nominal support for appearing to do work but they tended to blow off her actual suggestions and do what they were going to do anyways. They also started hiring $100k+ education consultants who all coincidentally agreed with what the superintendent wanted, despite much of the district struggling for funding. She only stayed for a few years before burn out set in.

NeatHeteroDude
Jan 15, 2017

Nix Panicus posted:

She spent a lot of her tenure trying to develop metrics for teacher buy in on interventions and then find ways to increase it. She also repeatedly recommended ditching a lot of older or marginal programs. Given how much that district relied on outside funding from interventions she got nominal support for appearing to do work but they tended to blow off her actual suggestions and do what they were going to do anyways. They also started hiring $100k+ education consultants who all coincidentally agreed with what the superintendent wanted, despite much of the district struggling for funding. She only stayed for a few years before burn out set in.

I'll reply to this and the other one later but this brings me to my current thought:

gently caress lexia core5 and gently caress dreambox. Absolutely not evidence-based by any stretch of the imagination, and my colleagues are required to provide 200 minutes combined for both programs every week in the place of additional instruction.

whiskey patrol
Feb 26, 2003

NeatHeteroDude posted:

We don't really like to refer kids for screening for eligibility if they're just, like, anxious in school (we'd make accommodations and find solutions within the kids current education framework), but a child who struggles with severe physical aggression as a result of tbi or sports or whatever will probably qualify for services. When kids qualify for services, we meet as a team and determine what those services will be, where they'll happen, who will provide them, what goals we're working toward, and 10,000 other things.

Part of that discussion might be "well they're barely below grade level in math, but are two standard deviations down from an average 4th grader's performance in tests of reading fluency, comprehension, expressive verbal language. Sounds like they need specially designed instruction aimed at building those foundational skills so they can participate more in the "general education" (non special ed) curriculum in the future. We'll have a literacy content area specialist provide 90 minutes of ELA instruction in a small group setting in the student's normal classroom. We want them to progress toward X goal by the end of the school year."

This may be a little out of your realm, but how helpful have you seen schools be with the kids who don't qualify for services but need extra accomodations? I know the push towards differentiated instruction and such should make this easier in some ways but it's also a ton for classroom teachers to juggle.

NeatHeteroDude posted:

Incredible ABA has a 4:1 ratio of praise to demands. Every time I ask prompt a kid to do something they don't want to do, I praise them four times for compliance or doing approximations of the behavior.

Most regular ABA sessions at my facility are just us telling kids they're awesome and having fun.

:hai: as it should be - if you're not having fun youre doing it wrong

Greg Legg
Oct 6, 2004

Adenoid Dan posted:

Could you talk about your thoughts on the controversy around ABA?

I've heard bad things about it but I don't know much about it, and I don't know anyone who's personally experienced it.

Is that generally the result of people doing it wrong, are there wrong ways to do it or kids it's not appropriate for, etc?

I think a lot of the controversy is because applied behavior analysis is marketed to parents as a "cure" for a child who has been diagnosed with autism (or anything, really).

Necrobama
Aug 4, 2006

by the sex ghost
i'm listening to my wife teach from home right now, because her school got flooded last week

she's so fuckin' great with these kids, she's just constantly giving them praise, even when she has to correct their behavior

Adenoid Dan
Mar 8, 2012

The Hobo Serenader
Lipstick Apathy

Greg Legg posted:

I think a lot of the controversy is because applied behavior analysis is marketed to parents as a "cure" for a child who has been diagnosed with autism (or anything, really).

Oh that makes sense.

NeatHeteroDude
Jan 15, 2017

Adenoid Dan posted:

Oh that makes sense.

I'll also have a longer reply sometime soon. Just been super sick. I think Gregg and I differ a little on the reasons for people disliking ABA but we both agree that there are some bad people doing bad aba.

Similarly there are lots of bad doctors, teachers, therapists, etc., who need to get yeeted into the sun lol

Smythe
Oct 12, 2003
thead reminded me of this post

Casey Finnigan posted:

when I was a kid, another kid said that G & T (Gifted & Talented) stood for "the gay tour" and I got so mad that I cried

Wheeee
Mar 11, 2001

When a tree grows, it is soft and pliable. But when it's dry and hard, it dies.

Hardness and strength are death's companions. Flexibility and softness are the embodiment of life.

That which has become hard shall not triumph.

my name is Brian but all my teachers called me Special Ed for some reason :(

Farecoal
Oct 15, 2011

There he go

Wow the comments are a real dumpster fire (also lol at the author's screed about cops)

Oh apparently he believes in the "heritability of intelligence". That's cool!

One of my brothers is a special ed teacher. I don't know a lot of the specifics but he's pretty tired and frustrated and trying find another job entirely. I would like to unironically thank you (and special educators in general) for your service

Farecoal has issued a correction as of 05:50 on Apr 22, 2023

Hawkperson
Jun 20, 2003

I've always wanted to post in/at cspam about the innate authoritarian streak in American K-12 teaching and what (if anything) could be done about it but I'm shy

since the pandemic forced me to rebuild my middle school elective program anyway I decided to take the opportunity and try to apply some of my philosophical views to my teaching. some of it worked! and some of it was very very bad. some of the very very bad I think is attributable to me being a small cog trying to make a whole system run in another direction, the end result is I started getting pretty squished rather than anything big changing. other of the bad is probably just me only being familiar with the "this class is a dictatorship, not a democracy" style of teaching from my own teachers/professors/etc. overall though I have no regrets. as my program rebuilds I find the students happier and more engaged in the work I have set before them. exciting!

observing the social effects of the pandemic on the young ones has also been informative. lots of my missteps in trying to flatten hierarchies in my own teaching could possibly be attributed to me being worse at predicting the likely behaviors and experience/maturity levels of my students. even as an experienced teacher I find myself making the rookie mistake of assuming middle schoolers aren't completing a task because they are purposely trying to be a butt, rather than identifying the hidden barriers to their success. in my defense tho I usually don't have to teach 12 year olds about sharing...that one took me by surprise for sure.

thanks for posting a thread about my favorite subject to nerd out about!!

Wheeee
Mar 11, 2001

When a tree grows, it is soft and pliable. But when it's dry and hard, it dies.

Hardness and strength are death's companions. Flexibility and softness are the embodiment of life.

That which has become hard shall not triumph.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjclHBDLkrw

A Bakers Cousin
Dec 18, 2003

by vyelkin
that is too many febreeze cans

NeatHeteroDude
Jan 15, 2017


This isn't the laughing at kids thread. That's over in A/T

Smythe
Oct 12, 2003

lol

ulvir
Jan 2, 2005

i teach high school where i live, comparable to the last three years in the US system, and looking at the long bits about lockdown drill and the staggering commonplace of school attacks just wrecks my head. I can’t even imagine having to work under conditions like that :(

Fat-Lip-Sum-41.mp3
Nov 15, 2003

kid's got it made as a voice actor for cartoon villains

His Purple Majesty
Dec 12, 2008
What are the top 3 ways we could reverse the decline of the American education system and start producing successful and competitive citizens again?

Nocturtle
Mar 17, 2007

Interested to learn there's good and bad ways to implement lockdown drills. No idea what protocol they're following at my kid's schools, hope they're following best practices!

The drills do have impacts on children of course, and maybe not always in the most obvious ways. For example recently my younger kid asked me if "bad guys" are real, and I tried to give an answer suggesting "bad guys" were fictional characters introduced into stories to create conflict and problems for protagonists to solve. However it soon became clear that the bad guys in question were the stated reason for locking the classroom door and staying quiet during a recent school lockdown drill. Wasn't sure how to respond to that, do I endorse the comic book view of good vs bad guys as being something applying to real life or instead contradict their teacher and the motivation for the drill? I changed the subject.

sube
Nov 7, 2022

Is the widespread use of IPads, phones, etc. have any drawbacks within the context of special education or has it been a net positive to helping children?

Hawkperson
Jun 20, 2003

His Purple Majesty posted:

What are the top 3 ways we could reverse the decline of the American education system and start producing successful and competitive citizens again?

i genuinely can’t tell if this is a serious question or not but if it is, it requires terms to be defined bc depending on who is asking it means 1000000 different things. usually when someone brings this up to me irl they tell me the first step is to put prayer back in schools

Zeroisanumber
Oct 23, 2010

Nap Ghost
MN is run by a teacher and the DFL just pumped a shitload of money into primary and special ed. My brother works as an elementary special ed teacher and he's extremely excited about it.

So if any of you in dogshit states were looking to relocate, now'd be a good time.

have you seen my baby
Nov 22, 2009

His Purple Majesty posted:

What are the top 3 ways we could reverse the decline of the American education system and start producing successful and competitive citizens again?

Increase the number of teachers, decrease class sizes, and pay teachers more

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Greg Legg
Oct 6, 2004

sube posted:

Is the widespread use of IPads, phones, etc. have any drawbacks within the context of special education or has it been a net positive to helping children?

I think it depends on what you're using it for. If you're interacting with someone with or through the i-Pad that's probably fine (like in Neatheterodude's ADORABLE example above), but if you're giving it to them because you don't want to teach anything that's not good. Some people will disagree and say that when they were younger the i-Pad helped them connect to the world, so I don't really know.

NeatHeteroDude posted:

I'll also have a longer reply sometime soon. Just been super sick. I think Gregg and I differ a little on the reasons for people disliking ABA but we both agree that there are some bad people doing bad aba.

Similarly there are lots of bad doctors, teachers, therapists, etc., who need to get yeeted into the sun lol

I'd love to hear what you think about this, but haven't you been sick for a while??

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