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Hawkperson posted:anecdotally, vape pens being small and relatively unobtrusive is wreaking havoc on my campus. we really don’t suspend much anymore in CA (which I think is fine/good, to be clear) but drugs on campus is still automatic 3 days I believe, and selling/distributing is automatic rec for expulsion. I feel like every day I get an email about the last kid I would have imagined being involved in drugs getting in huge trouble and disappearing for a week Cannabis or nicotine vapes?
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Apr 26, 2023 16:19
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cannabis mostly
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Apr 26, 2023 19:31
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Yeah I could see people flipping carts and that being pretty hard to deal with edit: Heard stories of seeing vape smoke in elementary school class rooms so yeah 
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Apr 26, 2023 23:09
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Hawkperson posted:anecdotally, vape pens being small and relatively unobtrusive is wreaking havoc on my campus. we really don’t suspend much anymore in CA (which I think is fine/good, to be clear) but drugs on campus is still automatic 3 days I believe, and selling/distributing is automatic rec for expulsion. I feel like every day I get an email about the last kid I would have imagined being involved in drugs getting in huge trouble and disappearing for a week Back when I was assigned to a middle school we had this problem. Every now and then kids would have to go to the nurse and get sent home because they got way too high and started freaking out. One of the schools I work at is very quick to suspend. I feel like every time I'm there another of my kids are suspended.
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Apr 26, 2023 23:23
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A Bakers Cousin posted:Yeah I could see people flipping carts and that being pretty hard to deal with So far this year we have had two 6th graders and one 5th grader caught smoking on campus
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Apr 27, 2023 00:00
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the unabonger posted:So far this year we have had two 6th graders and one 5th grader caught smoking on campus Cigs or cannabis? And sorry if I'm being stupid, but from the time I was in high school until now... tobacco, cannabis and alcohol were treated essentially the same.
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Apr 27, 2023 01:43
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yeah I would say they’re still treated equally as bad at school. I know cannabis research is heavily biased, but to my knowledge it’s still very bad for development, isn’t it?
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Apr 27, 2023 04:24
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I don't think it's "very" bad. I think most of the observed effects in studies are more likely related to SES. I think the main concern is if there's problematic use, what is causing it. I haven't read much of the literature though, that's just the impression I've gotten.
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Apr 27, 2023 07:57
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PT6A posted:Cigs or cannabis? And sorry if I'm being stupid, but from the time I was in high school until now... tobacco, cannabis and alcohol were treated essentially the same. cannabis. It's an automatic suspension here in California as the previous poster said, but it still feels weird to be hearing about it on campus.
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Apr 27, 2023 15:43
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Adenoid Dan posted:I don't think it's "very" bad. I think most of the observed effects in studies are more likely related to SES. I think the main concern is if there's problematic use, what is causing it. Yeah I feel like if this situation is happening in the first place suspension is likely not going to help, because odds are they'll just spend the suspension getting high somewhere else. Like a lot of existing punitive measures at schools, it's only succeeding in dissuading students who aren't doing it in the first place.
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Apr 27, 2023 17:16
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the ones who are selling/dealing to other kids I kind of get suspending them. but then, those are the ones getting rec’d for expulsion. I wish we’d do suspension + further consequences for dealing and “in school suspension” for getting caught smoking or whatever where instead of ISS it’s an emergency counseling intervention for the kids and maybe the family too.
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Apr 27, 2023 20:33
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I gotta be honest idk where I stand on kids doing drugs. adults I’m like “do your thing” but I worry about the kiddos. I’ll have to look back into the research tho bc I emphatically do not want to be that adult that lies terribly about the effects of drugs and then is all shocked pikachu face when kids find out it’s all bs and get more interested in doing drugs bc of it
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Apr 27, 2023 20:35
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Hawkperson posted:I gotta be honest idk where I stand on kids doing drugs. adults I’m like “do your thing” but I worry about the kiddos. I’ll have to look back into the research tho bc I emphatically do not want to be that adult that lies terribly about the effects of drugs and then is all shocked pikachu face when kids find out it’s all bs and get more interested in doing drugs bc of it Same. It's a difficult conversation every time it comes up. When I was a kid I remember a DARE officer telling us that people who use drugs are basically evil, but I knew that my uncle was getting high every day.
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Apr 27, 2023 23:54
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when I was in high school there was a kid who everyone knew sold drugs (he'd been suspended for it, arrested for it, etc..) and lo and behold, his dad was the DARE cop for my class some four years prior
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Apr 28, 2023 01:46
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If you want anyone to remain sober, at any age, you have to give them a reason. And the reason can't be rooted in fear of punishment, because I think we've seen it doesn't work! Fear of health impacts doesn't work very well with high schoolers or most people. For most kids, you go to school because you must, not because there's anything you really enjoy there. Is it any wonder that they eventually come up with the idea that "hey this would be a lot more tolerable under the influence?" I think it's absolutely appropriate to be concerned about substance use among children and teens, and even adults, because god knows I've seen enough adult friends go down that path in a very bad way, but I also don't see that concern accomplishing jack poo poo unless it's joined by "and here's a good reason, which makes sense to you, to avoid it."
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Apr 30, 2023 03:51
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The stoner kids themselves are the most effective argument against taking drugs.
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Apr 30, 2023 04:11
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War and Pieces posted:The stoner kids themselves are the most effective argument against taking drugs. look at this nerd
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Apr 30, 2023 05:42
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So what do you all do when struggling to find the motivation to grade papers? I'm having trouble getting through this last stack of 90 papers. I tend to find new music to listen to, when it's not a video game soundtrack. Recently came across Lido Pimienta thanks to Tuca & Bertie and it's been pretty cool. It's likely my 2nd least favorite thing to do related to the job, except for inter-teacher work, since that's always just painfully long. Class may be ending on June 2nd but then I've got a month of THAT.
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May 2, 2023 14:37
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I always felt kind of blessed that I never had to worry much about grades, because my students curriculum was always substantially different from their same age peers. When I was first placed in a middle school I didn't assign any grades for the first quarter (the system allowed me to put n/a so I did). The VP called and said that I needed to find a grade for my students, so I gave them all A's. He called back and said I couldn't do that, so I gave them all B's and apparently that was fine. A lot of my parents never even looked at the report card, just the IEP progress report.
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May 2, 2023 14:44
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what’s Inter-teacher work? is that like collab stuff? I don’t have much advice on grading though I struggle too. nowadays all mine is on google classroom which helps me stay organized at least.
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May 2, 2023 14:44
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Greg Legg posted:I always felt kind of blessed that I never had to worry much about grades, because my students curriculum was always substantially different from their same age peers. When I was first placed in a middle school I didn't assign any grades for the first quarter (the system allowed me to put n/a so I did). The VP called and said that I needed to find a grade for my students, so I gave them all A's. He called back and said I couldn't do that, so I gave them all B's and apparently that was fine. A lot of my parents never even looked at the report card, just the IEP progress report. I'd love that. Grades used to be "pointless" but required in France when a high schooler's passage was based solely on the result of their Baccalaureat. Now grades count for a percentage of that grade, so we're required to give them at least 3 grades per trimester, which was decided by the staff themselves. I had petitioned to officially write down a non-specific number, ie 'the students will be given a grade', but some insisted on 3, which locks into at least that if not more if the initial grades were particularly disheartening. I remember a tenured professor in university offering everyone C's or something average like that, even if they didn't come to class. If you stayed and worked you'd get a higher grade. Professor guaranteed a more receptive audience and those who didn't want to be there got there general requirement grade. Hawkperson posted:what’s Inter-teacher work? is that like collab stuff? I'm losing my English it would seem! We call them 'journée pédagogique' (pedagogical days) but it's just days where the teachers come in and discuss their material, joint tests, lesson plans, how to implement any new governmental mandates and all that and there's no class. As class finishes in early June but we don't officially finish until the 14th of July, we have about a month to hammer out all that stuff; the plus being that we get to leave early/come later depending on what we need to do. I wouldn't mind it but everyone is at odds here, in particular in the language department. France has a pretty strict national curriculum that everyone follows, except in Foreign Languages where the students have rather vague themes to study; things like 'Art and Power', 'Diversity and Inclusion', and the like. Generally vague descriptors in which you can do pretty much whatever you want, which I love. I've always been able to teach exactly what I've wanted without a thought given to the program. So the pro is we do what we want, but in practice then all language teachers pretty much do their own thing. So when we're supposed to coordinate things it's like herding cats. I get along with half the English team which is good, because the other half (we're 8) are completely uncooperative and are quick to look down on anyone who doesn't do like them, or rather as they say. Since I've been here, we've stopped all joint testing, since two teachers would not agree on how to test the students or grade them, so now we just run our own things. We stopped discussing even what themes we would cover per year and so on. Last year was the argument of how many self-mandated grades to get, and where I usually don't bother not wanting to get embroiled in the whole thing, I tried to argue on imposing a limit on grades but lost to the doctrinarians. Anyway, I'm waiting for the tougher elements to retire and am working on fostering good relationships with the newer staff so we can do stuff but it's tough. Also, I don't mind just doing my own thing but it's a pity there's almost no inter-departmental goodwill. One of the things that demoralized me this year was how with the core of teachers I do get along with, we planned a bunch of projects and events together during this period, but due to the lack of support of the administration it all petered out and we just worked independently in the end.
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May 2, 2023 15:12
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100YrsofAttitude posted:I'm losing my English it would seem! We call them 'journée pédagogique' (pedagogical days) but it's just days where the teachers come in and discuss their material, joint tests, lesson plans, how to implement any new governmental mandates and all that and there's no class. As class finishes in early June but we don't officially finish until the 14th of July, we have about a month to hammer out all that stuff; the plus being that we get to leave early/come later depending on what we need to do. I wouldn't mind it but everyone is at odds here, in particular in the language department. This sounds really interesting. We have "professional development" days, but that's usually the administration offering training on a new curriculum or a legal update. Setting aside some time for teachers to share their curriculum would have been really helpful for me when I was starting out.
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May 2, 2023 15:42
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In theory it's good and a great way to collaborate. The science department is thick as thieves and they coordinate projects together and split the load. One teacher prepares a sequence and shares it with the others and so on. I've worked with individual teachers in the language department but the most help I ever got early on was being told to just follow the book. I don't like the manuals and haven't used them since my second year. It's more work since I need to do all the prep work, but it's far more gratifying. I've only begun to accept that the class I've made can be good enough to share with others, even if my notes are often an indecipherable mess. Still you can tell that here people like their autonomy and are just as happy to be left alone. The majority of our labor together is implementing new mandates without stepping on anyone's toes.
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May 2, 2023 15:55
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100YrsofAttitude posted:Anyway, I'm waiting for the tougher elements to retire and am working on fostering good relationships with the newer staff so we can do stuff but it's tough. Also, I don't mind just doing my own thing but it's a pity there's almost no inter-departmental goodwill. Congratulations on being the tougher elements of tomorrow. Also, without intention to oppose, the science department being mutually cooperative is typically because of outside pressure forcing them into alliance. There's precious little other common ground between physics and biology, for example. I mean aside from idealists like myself.
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May 2, 2023 20:44
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There's been talk here about how principals suck. As someone not familiar with the insides of the school system as an adult, what do principals actually do and why do they suck? What would they need to do to not suck?
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May 2, 2023 21:13
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Atopian posted:Congratulations on being the tougher elements of tomorrow. Well that's actually probably why. In high school the students cover all sorts of sciences, but the teacher is expected to teach it all. So I bet the actual physicists write those sequences and share with the biologists who do their part. I hope to quit long before I ever get as cynical and bitter as those individuals. I genuinely love my job and the students I work with so ending up like that seems like the saddest outcome. Kermit The Grog posted:There's been talk here about how principals suck. As someone not familiar with the insides of the school system as an adult, what do principals actually do and why do they suck? What would they need to do to not suck? I don't envy them despite their bigger paycheck. I'm not sure everything they do but the position has its difficulties. I imagine the biggest for public and private schools (I'm in a private school under contract to the state) is funds. Obviously we're not paid by the school, but the school has to make sure it's got functioning tools for the students and the like. Being a private school in a bourgeois town, we're ok, but there's a lot annoying things like speakers and equipment that are perpetually on the fritz. Instead of fixing that stuff, the school invested money in getting students tablets which has seem to be a waste of money and utility since most teachers (myself included) haven't tried to use them and the kids just use them to play games and poo poo. I know our principal is directly involved with admissions and stuff like that. They are, for all intents and purposes managers and managers generally speaking suck when their efforts and interests don't align with those they manage. Teachers know their students, we have regular contact with them and we run the day-to-day activities of the school. Without us, the kids won't learn. A lovely principal prioritizes things like budgets and poo poo like that at the cost of the well-being of the students and their staff. Sometimes they can't do much about it, considering how poorly funded schools are and well-meaning as they may be poo poo still goes down. A lot of principals used to teach which helps. I think teachers could self-run a school too, but we do so much as it is. I have a generally good principal and administration. They're not great and they don't really help us (I had a lot projects that fell by the wayside as I could never get their confirmation. They never even bothered to say no) but they also leave us alone and to our own devices which is better than a micromanager. I do appreciate that they do stand by us whenever a parent or an inspector gets on our case, so that's cool. I feel they're generally human and do want to do well for the kids and staff, but just have a lot on their plate and so just generally ignore it all.
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May 2, 2023 23:08
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Kermit The Grog posted:There's been talk here about how principals suck. As someone not familiar with the insides of the school system as an adult, what do principals actually do and why do they suck? What would they need to do to not suck? They suck when they try to micromanage and tell you what you should be doing. The best principals I've had were the ones that just left me alone and let me run my program. I've been sort of fortunate here. Back when I had a room, I usually didn't bother with the schoolwide curriculum (or it was heavily modified) because of the students I worked with, so as long as they were making gains on their IEP goals and a parent wasn't trying to sue me I never interacted much with administration unless something went really wrong. We used to play super smash brothers 4 on Fridays. I miss the classroom. edit: I'm usually brought in to help with students with challenging behavior, and 90% of the time I have nothing much to tell them because the teacher is a twenty year veteran who has seen this a thousand times and everything is in place already. It just takes time. Principals don't like hearing that. Greg Legg has issued a correction as of 23:32 on May 2, 2023 |
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May 2, 2023 23:27
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principals suck as a cohort and an enabler of the system much like cops. individual principals may not necessarily suck, but also, choosing to be a principal kind of by default means you are agreeing to a whole host of problematic poo poo that means you kind of suck. that said, that pretty much describes teachers too and I chose to be a teacher so. genuinely, the job of principal seems to suck rear end because you get to deal with the worst and angriest people the majority of the time. the nice principal things are far and few between, and the hours are long. I honestly don’t know why people choose to become a principal because if I didn’t have positive relationships with students and their families to sustain me I’d burn out so, so quickly. I just can’t imagine being told to go gently caress myself from every angle, every day with an occasional respite for awards ceremonies (where frankly, someone is probably still pissed off at you). so I guess despite thinking principals suck I also feel bad for them and respect their resilience. a complicated feeling.
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May 3, 2023 00:30
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Kermit The Grog posted:There's been talk here about how principals suck. As someone not familiar with the insides of the school system as an adult, what do principals actually do and why do they suck? What would they need to do to not suck? With the caveat that I've been teaching at private schools in the middle east: A good principal over here basically acts as an intermediary between the teachers/students and the greater administration/public/school owners (if applicable.) If a school-wide change is implemented, the principal organizes it for their school. If a parent is freaking out about a book, the principal handles the parent. This, unfortunately, means that the better a principal is at their job, the less you see evidence of their work. There are a lot of little complaints parents commonly make, for instance, that are just going to happen no matter what is happening at the school. (Especially at private schools - the place I teach at is all insanely wealthy families.) An okay principal will deal with that, and it'll usually add stress to the teacher - every "why did my Ahmed get a 7 and not an 8" requires meetings and debates. The current principal I have is great, and when small stuff like that happens, you frequently won't even know it. A lot of the organizing that principals do can also support other initiatives the schools and teachers are doing. Every year at our school, the principal basically secludes himself for two weeks before the first class while he works on the class rosters. There's a lot of actual politics involved, so (learning support students aside) the teachers don't even know who they'll get until the first day of classes. My cadre of social studies teachers recently discovered that one of the reasons that the rosters are so secretive is that, without making it explicit, our principal has been differentiating class sections by learning style (not grades or ability) and then assigning classes to teachers who support that style. This isn't explicit, and it's not something you'll usually notice, but it makes the teachers jobs easier and helps the students.
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May 3, 2023 05:20
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Mormon Star Wars posted:A lot of the organizing that principals do can also support other initiatives the schools and teachers are doing. Every year at our school, the principal basically secludes himself for two weeks before the first class while he works on the class rosters. There's a lot of actual politics involved, so (learning support students aside) the teachers don't even know who they'll get until the first day of classes. My cadre of social studies teachers recently discovered that one of the reasons that the rosters are so secretive is that, without making it explicit, our principal has been differentiating class sections by learning style (not grades or ability) and then assigning classes to teachers who support that style. This isn't explicit, and it's not something you'll usually notice, but it makes the teachers jobs easier and helps the students. your principal is pretending to sequester himself, having the SIS auto-schedule the entire school, and instead spending those 2 weeks yachting with the richest parents
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May 3, 2023 07:04
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ChickenOfTomorrow posted:your principal is pretending to sequester himself, having the SIS auto-schedule the entire school, and instead spending those 2 weeks yachting with the richest parents Nah, that's why he's a good principal - he's not swayed by that sort of stuff. If the principal rolled over or did favors for powerful families, it would be hell for the teachers (it's bad enough in regular schools where teachers might be pressured to pass a student so he can play football!). Part of what he does is say "no" to incredibly powerful people, and the school roster planning is very important for that reason.
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May 3, 2023 09:46
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Interacting with most principals feels like interacting with a politician. I'm not sure I would ever take that job.
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May 3, 2023 16:03
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ChickenOfTomorrow posted:your principal is pretending to sequester himself, having the SIS auto-schedule the entire school, and instead spending those 2 weeks yachting with the richest parents Ah, you work abroad teaching, too. I work in an "international" bilingual school in Shanghai. For a lot of reasons, my job should not exist.
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May 4, 2023 06:51
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Okuteru posted:Ah, you work abroad teaching, too. Join our tiny China goon wechat group. We are hilarious. Sort of. Re: principals and international stuff, the best ones are those who understand that they are ablative. That is, it is their job to oppose the worst, most counterproductive whims of the insane financial backers, gradually wearing out their welcome until they are replaced. The worst are the ones who think they're in a job for life, and sell everyone and everything down the river to cling to their position for a couple more years at best.
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May 4, 2023 12:37
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NeatHeteroDude posted:The clinical environment exists because the high school kids we'd work with were far, far, FAR too dangerous to instruct, even in a self-contained classroom at a special school. we basically do 7 hours of ABA therapy with them- reinforcing for completing academic and functional demands (like writing an A, touching blocks to show the number "3", taking turns to play with toy cars, etc.) in a very controlled setting where there's little risk of them escalating and hurting themselves or someone else. tbh when you put it like this, it sounds like exactly the kind of thing that ABA was made for, which is fine what I understand the controversy to be is that organisations like Autism Speaks are using ABA as a form of autistic conversion therapy, like, blanket pushing it on autistic children as if that'll magically make them neurotypical, which is not what you're trying to do at all, if I'm understanding correctly
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May 4, 2023 18:21
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Venomous posted:tbh when you put it like this, it sounds like exactly the kind of thing that ABA was made for, which is fine Yeah that is the impression I have gotten. The stories I recall hearing were a lot of stuff along the lines of taking comfort items away and only giving a little bit of time with them as a reward for compliance. This is very different! The emphasis seemed to be on making autistic kids pass as neurotypical (lol why does my keyboard recognize neurosyphilis but not neurotypical).
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May 4, 2023 18:40
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Vapes are such a game changer. Like, before you had to have a plan and a spot to smoke at and the smell would stay on you and so would the gear. Now kids can just hit it whereever and whenever no problems, and their parents may not even be aware the kid has a serious habit going.PT6A posted:If you want anyone to remain sober, at any age, you have to give them a reason. And the reason can't be rooted in fear of punishment, because I think we've seen it doesn't work! Fear of health impacts doesn't work very well with high schoolers or most people. For most kids, you go to school because you must, not because there's anything you really enjoy there. Is it any wonder that they eventually come up with the idea that "hey this would be a lot more tolerable under the influence?" Well the thing with being sober, is that it's boring and doesn't have a reward. I'm reminded of Disco Elysium's Wasteland of Reality Thought "It’ll be depressing. And it’ll be boring. Don’t expect any further rewards or handclaps. This is how normal people are all the time." skooma512 has issued a correction as of 21:07 on May 4, 2023 |
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May 4, 2023 20:59
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The one and only time this school year I've referred a kid for discipline this year is when a kid took a massive hit from a weed vape right in front of me during class and stunk up the entire classroom. They were suspended for a few days, the good admin talked to their parents, and they haven't been high in class since they returned. The system is.. Working? (Ha ha no everything sucks)
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May 4, 2023 21:07
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suspensions are so dumb lol
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May 4, 2023 21:15
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500 good dogs posted:suspensions are so dumb lol At my urban public school we do In School Suspension for like 90% of all discipline.. The kids spend the day sitting in a small auditorium looking at their phones while some adult sits on the stage and observes them. Pretty dumb! We only do Out of School Suspension for things involving violence. A kid I'm really rooting for got out of school suspended today for taking video of a fight that occurred. Even more dumb!
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May 4, 2023 22:16
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