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Man, this is great. Like many others these were maybe my favourite books as a child. Read them over and over again. In retrospect, the comparison of Gwydion to Aragorn/Strider is very apt. And yes, in the Mabinogion he's much more of a wizard/trickster and honestly a bit of a dirtbag. I think the books themselves are very much children's books in terms of the protagonist and his heroes journey (is bildingsroman the word?) But the writing holds up and would not be particularly out of place in a genre book for adults. Very effective.
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May 1, 2023 07:09
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Strategic Tea posted:I think Terry Goodkind had more of a 'what if Gollum, but Gollum' character. God even to 13yo me those books were... unoriginal. While Terry Goodkind is (was?) indeed terrible, the real LotR rip-off is the Sword of Shannara, a very direct cut and paste job right down to a not-aragorn, a not-gandalf etc, and the two yokels (who are at least humans this time, not hobbits) get separated from their group and go off into the bad guy's lair alone, followed by this gnarly little poo poo who's obsessed with the titular sword, which is the one ring stand-in. Like it really is the LotR trilogy to a blatant degree. I think it was extremely commercially successful, I even read an article once that credited it with beginning the modern boom of fantasy publishing.
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Jun 1, 2023 23:41
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Wahad posted:Chapter 15: King Eiddileg I did not remember all these little episodes in the first book! Definitely jumps around a bit, the put-upon bureaucrat as the fairy king is not something I would have fully understood/appreciated as a child.
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Jun 7, 2023 23:54
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Wahad posted:The end A great finish! Really takes me back to reading them as a kid. Amongst the nice and worthy life lessons, I don't remember noticing this before: "Dallben interrupted his meditations to be present at the feast; though soon after the festivities, he withdrew to his chamber and was not seen for some time." Mysterious old sage being mysterious? Or an old chap having a nap after a large lunch? Could be a nice little glimpse of his down to earth humanity. Really will get these for my son when he's old enough. I can see why they are so enduringly popular as YA books.
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Jun 19, 2023 11:44
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Wahad posted:Chapter 7: Kaw Wow, Ellidyr is such a dick. "Go and warm your courage by the fire". It's not even that he needs to go and be a hero, Taran has the same problem there, it's that he needs to put down his erstwhile comrades while he does it.
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Jul 12, 2023 21:24
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All consistently high quality stuff, as Taran continues to very slowly and painfully learn wisdom. I do think the danger and adventure as mere set dressing are pretty evident in that passage though. These fantastically bad, dangerous Huntsmen ambush our heroes, attack them, wound the most dangerous one, and then simply exit stage left, vainly pursuing some of them. The remaining heroes bimble off for some more dialogue and wild camping.
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Jul 19, 2023 21:16
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nine-gear crow posted:I always got the impression that Adaon was around the same age as Taran and the rest, maybe a little older like 17 or 18 to Taran and Eilonwy's 15, just a really well put together 17 year old thanks to his magic brooch powers. Flwedder's kind of the odd one out being this weirdo 20 or 30 something dude hanging around with a bunch of teenagers all the time, but he's basically as close as the group gets to adult supervision whenever Gwydion's not around. This is one of the other things that I can no longer suspend my disbelief around as an adult, looking back at books for kids. There's always some reason the adolescent protagonist(s) have a critical role to play and can make big decisions. Whereas in real life almost any adult present would seize control of the situation - it's completely unreasonable the Fllewddur, who seems to be an eccentric but relatively competent chap, would just let the goodhearted but inexperienced pigkeeper make the decisions. Age and experience do matter, although I fully see the point of teaching young readers to believe in themselves and imagine they could be the hero given the chance. nine-gear crow posted:That is perhaps one of the valid criticisms you can lobby against most of the books is that, due to the age range of their prospective readers, a lot of the dangers the characters face in them lack teeth. At least until a certain point in Book 4, Book 5 definitely. Yeah there's a couple more personal confrontations Taran has in Book 4 that I remember being much more personal, and of course Book 5 has a darker tone.
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Jul 23, 2023 16:51
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I'll be honest, I can't exactly remember how the story moves on from this bit. But in a sense the heroes can go back now and report success - the cauldron is beyond Arawn's grasp, with powers which I really don't think he could recover it from again. That's not what happens, but I'm damned if I can recall why or how.
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Jul 29, 2023 21:45
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Morgant you absolute knob.
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Aug 30, 2023 22:48
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Wow, I am consistently reminded that what I remember from reading these as a child, is the actual plot. I definitely didn't consciously absorb most of the lessons Taran is explicitly told about trusting in yourself, doing the right thing, etc etc
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Sep 8, 2023 12:09
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Wahad posted:I think Rhun's bumbling fool thing getting in the way of Taran at critical moments like this does a lot to lessen this book's impact. It's just kind of...annoying? Perhaps there is some sort of lesson about tolerating others and seeing the good in them? If so, it's unintentionally making the opposite point: some people are liabilities, and although you shouldn't be mean to them, they are best left out of important tasks. Mind you, Taran himself fills that role to Gwydion, at least until it all comes good in the end.
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Sep 21, 2023 11:26
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Wahad posted:No post today, or the coming week, as I am going on vacation! Chapters resume October 7th. A well earned break! Don't get kidnapped.
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Sep 27, 2023 17:51
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Coca Koala posted:We draw closer to the secret of the bauble! And I'm damned if I can remember what it is! Or how this book gets to the conclusion, either.
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Oct 24, 2023 22:37
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Glew is just a grade-A pillock.
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Nov 7, 2023 14:39
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Another nice lesson for kids that I completely brushed over as a child myself.
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Nov 8, 2023 22:42
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The thing is Gwydion in the actual Mabinogion, and I assume in other traditional Welsh mythology, isn't really that traditional a hero. He's kind of an Odysseus figure, a man of twists and schemes. Which I guess isn't entirely at odds with his portrayal in the books, he does disguise himself etc.
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Nov 9, 2023 12:42
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I think Achren's threat to kill Eilonwy if the heroes don't comply rings a bit hollow. I mean her whole world domination plan is based on leveraging Eilonwy's power. So surely killing her would be self-destructive? I'm surprised Gwydion doesn't call her bluff.
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Nov 23, 2023 16:24
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nine-gear crow posted:Aww yiss. This is the big one, folks. Oh yeah.
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Nov 29, 2023 21:58
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I don't think I particularly got it when I was a kid, I was more rooting for Taran to finally win a fight, but the book is full of the lesson that growing up isn't about being a hero, it's about learning to find your own way and develop some sort of skills and self-reliance. They really are very educational books.
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Dec 6, 2023 22:58
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Great stuff; I really liked King Smoit when I read these as a child. As an adult I see the slightly performative nature of the cantrev lords' violence. We've just been introduced to the impact of casualties with Aeddan's son and how his death affected his parents. Yet now, we have Goryon and Gast 'fighting' but it clearly won't be resolved before Smoit gets there and there isn't much sense of the bloodshed. It's a bit hollywood, everyone clashes their swords together and a few men on each side roll dramatically on the ground to make it look good. But when the smoke clears everyone seems to be OK.
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Dec 13, 2023 18:22
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regulargonzalez posted:I kind of hate the message that nobility by right of blood is a more valuable thing than becoming a ruler due to having the skill for it. Wanting to know your parents and heritage is all well and good but there's definitely some outdated British monarchy-worship in there. Well I don't know about that, Smoit explicitly derides the idea - better a wise pig-keeper than a foolish prince of the blood - so I think the text is more saying that Taran does cling to that idea from his inferiority complex, but the important bit to him, as he gains wisdom, is finding out the truth and wondering whence he came. Of course what he's really doing is discovering his own nature via the journey.
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Dec 19, 2023 03:15
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Amen. And I thought Mordant was a knob!
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Jan 4, 2024 14:43
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What's odd to me is I'd have said this one was my favourite book in the series, and I certainly read it over and over again. Yet I didn't remember this Morda at all. I remember all the fable-type lessons Taran gets (e.g. Goryon and Gast) and my memory of the book's main antagonist is a character that hasn't appeared yet.
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Jan 7, 2024 10:12
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Ravenfood posted:It would be funny if Taran just never, ever used it because he had a typical hoarding consumables syndrome. Or because most people can't remember and perfectly reproduce 3 distinct notes on an instrument they were never taught how to play! Rather a difficult item to use IMO.
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Jan 15, 2024 17:37
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nine-gear crow posted:And thus we cross the "Yeah, but nobody actually dies in these books" threshold... Ah, Dorath. Now this prick I remember.
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Jan 19, 2024 14:23
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Lol. I mean, we can see as adults that we're not at the end of the book. If I'm honest, I don't remember reading it for the first time, just re-reading it. But on the face of it . . . what a twist!
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Jan 25, 2024 18:49
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Another nice (and rather more cheerful) lesson. I do question how well you can feed and clothe a family by that kind of foraging though, and you certainly might hesitate before taking in two adult strangers to share the food! For that matter, didn't Gurgi used to have an everlasting pouch of food? Seems like it might have come in handy here.
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Feb 7, 2024 18:48
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Hemp Knight posted:Interesting question. That's a fair point though. I think you would need to be at least semi-nomadic though, because you'd forage out your local environment otherwise. I also think it might only be viable in certain environments - not sure I'd like to try it in 'basically Wales' which is what Prydain is.
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Feb 8, 2024 10:59
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Comstar posted:Does that not describe Gilgamesh’s best buddy Enriqu(?)? Enkidu?
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Feb 12, 2024 16:28
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Wahad posted:Chapter 20: The Spoilers gently caress yeah! It was cool in the 3 Musketeers and it's cool here. Perhaps a less applicable life lesson for kids than some of the other stuff in the book about personal development. But it's interesting to see how personal courage, and the willingness to share risk or sacrifice for others, is kind of an underpinning virtue throughout Taran's journey.
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Feb 21, 2024 17:21
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silvergoose posted:It's pretty applicable for standing up for peers who are being bullied at school. Not in direct fights, sure, but just showing that the out group is stronger than expected can be enough to deter such things. That's a good point! Darthemed posted:It’s weird, Morda is the one that I remembered as the notable villain of this book, when it’s Dorath who’s responsible for so much of the conflicts which push Taran forward. How odd, for me I had forgotten Morda completely, whereas Dorath loomed large in my imagination. I remember how much I wanted Taran to have decisively beaten him in both their fights.
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Feb 25, 2024 21:33
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Definitely some foreshadowing scattered about in these opening chapters!
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Mar 10, 2024 21:08
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Magg, you snivelling snake in the grass!
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Mar 14, 2024 00:07
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Strategic Tea posted:What a Prydick! LOL Beefeater1980 posted:Tactical Turnip Troops. I feel like we have been here before with Morgant in The Black Cauldron. Definitely a common message that pride and strength in war are a dangerous combination. I'd be very interested to look up the author's biography and see what he was up to during WW2. Coca Koala posted:This book does an amazing job of just feeling like an ending at every turn. The events really do feel like they're moving towards a climax after which Things Will Be Changed. I completely agree with this. It is a wonderful capstone to the more YA books that build up to it.
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Apr 8, 2024 08:52
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filmcynic posted:I just wanted to echo the rest of the thread, and thank you for posting these. I devoured these books as a kid, and it's been an absolute joy realizing that they're even better than I remembered. There was one which was about a fictionalised version of the Tang dynasty I think? A boy emperor gets deposed and goes on a sort of odyssey across his kingdom. The Journey of prince Jen or Yen or something?
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Apr 20, 2024 21:59
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Comstar posted:I dunno. Trying to slow down an army of undead by defending one wall and they just walk around it and then spending an hour in digging a grave does not seem an optimal military solution. Their military efforts convinced young me given the suspension of disbelief. But yeah as an adult I think they'd all just get massacred. But maybe that's because I'm imagining the cauldron-born as tireless zombies? Which would obviously just exhaust all the defenders in an hour or two, then slaughter them. But it is sort of implied that they are tiring in some slightly inhuman way, they can't simply keep trying to get over the wall until they succeed.
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Apr 21, 2024 20:45
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Wahad posted:
Bloody Glew again. I forget what the moral of this particular pimple is. Does he come good at the end of the story? Or is it just to tell young readers that some people are poo poo and you have to be patient?
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Apr 27, 2024 13:09
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Wahad posted:Chapter 14: Daylight As the prophecy foretold! Nice to see that scumbag Dorath get his just desserts.
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May 1, 2024 22:28
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Comstar posted:I dunno. For being a boss monster in several novels he died practically without a wimper or monologue. Eh, he got his throat torn out by a wolf. I think the details of the description are occluded in line with the YA audience of the books. Most violence in them seems to be portrayed that way, people bloodlessly expire like an early 20th century swashbuckling movie. But it's definitely not a lovely way to go.
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May 3, 2024 00:13
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