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The_White_Crane posted:The other big conceptual problem the game has at the moment is that it's undecided about exactly what the player character's role is. Haven't played this game but read the thread since it sounded interesting. But from your description this seems perfect for an Asimov-style robot detective sorta thing like Caves of Steel (or Detroit: Become Human). Enforcers (these are cops, I take it?) don't like robots poking around into their investigations but might order you to do work for them. You're not allowed to kill people but maybe you can use non-lethal force if you're attacked. e: Brightman posted:Enforcers aren't cops, just corporate guards ok so yeah, cops Phenotype fucked around with this message at 19:50 on Apr 30, 2023 |
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Apr 30, 2023 18:49
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The setup for the story is the world is run by corporations, like literally one is the president, a culmination of the bullshit with corporations being people in a legal sense no doubt. Enforcers aren't cops, just corporate guards, there are no cops, but you used to be one, and also cyberpunk stuff is happening so you can get robot legs I guess. I solved my outdoor murder case after loving it up because everyone in the area described a suspicious person who was just a lady running in fear after someone was shot as far as I could tell. Went back, double checked the CCTV cameras and store cameras, nothing. Honestly not sure how they did it. While going through the victim's coworkers one was dead in their apartment. There was a lot more evidence there and it turned out to be the next coworker I was going to visit. At one point my corkboard was so cluttered it was lagging the game any time I tried to use it or inspect something. There were a few pictures from the cameras before the victim died where they were maybe talking to some people and chasing those leads and anyone connected to them really ballooned things. All false leads, should've just looked into their personal connections to start with. I found the landlord for the island, she was the only one for all the buildings. The work schedule said 0-0 cause they're a landlord and don't work.
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Apr 30, 2023 19:38
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Couldn't find much evidence except a piece of paper saying "let's play a game" with the killer's name as an anagram. Figured it out pretty much instantly, looked up their address, and kicked the poo poo out of them while they were asleep. Also I looted their apartment before turning them in. Another case solved 
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Apr 30, 2023 19:50
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When you go to furnish your apartment I would save first, about half of the items you can buy do not currently have working collision detection and will fall through the floor into nothingness as soon as you place them. early access baby
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Apr 30, 2023 20:55
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Mister Bates posted:When you go to furnish your apartment I would save first, about half of the items you can buy do not currently have working collision detection and will fall through the floor into nothingness as soon as you place them. I tried to place a toilet and it broke so hard that I couldn't get out of furnishing mode even after I left the building. I also tried to place some bullets I stole onto a shelf and it started constantly duplicating the ammo and filling up my inventory no matter how fast I dropped them  Definitely save often
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Apr 30, 2023 21:07
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the fingerprint issue is probably the first thing i'd tackle because once you get prints the best and easiest solution is to just run thru the DB until you find a match. which, while hilariously accurate, can make the finer details of a case not matter. personally what id do is set it up so that killers have a personality that ties into what clues they leave behind. a dumb low level killer will leave prints and the weapon at the scene, smarter ones will wear gloves, others might be doing so to toy with investigators etc.
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Apr 30, 2023 21:48
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I'm pretty sure they do that already. Some of them don't leave prints, some of them deliberately avoid or disable security, most of them have rituals that determine the name of the case (ie general variants of the business killer leaving business cards, the valentines killer leaving lipstick, the retired reaper with toy cars, the one with the anagrams, the one with bloody footprints, etc...).
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Apr 30, 2023 21:57
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FZeroRacer posted:the fingerprint issue is probably the first thing i'd tackle because once you get prints the best and easiest solution is to just run thru the DB until you find a match. which, while hilariously accurate, can make the finer details of a case not matter. I also think that after 5-10 searches in the government database within a certain time period, or maybe ANY searches outside of working hours, maybe a silent alarm should go off and enforcers should barge into the room. That would make it so that you only can use the government database to search for specific people, instead of basically brute forcing the game. Also maybe to water down the power of finger prints a bit, killers could leave "partial" prints that "COULD BE" A, D, or F. Even if you've already no-lifed all the documents in the city and knew who A, D, and F are, this would still provide leads rather than straight solutions. Arsonide fucked around with this message at 01:47 on May 1, 2023 |
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May 1, 2023 01:14
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Seems like at present crimes are limited to people who know each other. Someone's story up thread about a hired killer committing multiple murders but they were all the killer's neighbors and others where side missions are usually all known individuals to whoever gives the mission seems less than great. On the one hand, it probably makes the procgen crime aspect a lot easier, but on the other it seems like it limits the game. Obviously that would be a later change in development since currently just making sure the game works is priority. Unless it's one of those that after X dev time it's too deeply fundamental to everything and can't be changed.... This game is super cool even at its current stage and I can't wait to see what it looks like in several months. I don't for a second believe the time table on their road map on the Steam page though.
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May 1, 2023 03:26
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Yeah I am having barrels of fun with it even in its current state but it also clearly needs a lot of work, what we have right now is essentially a proof-of-concept. Right now it seems like any murderer will eventually kill again if not captured, and something I would really like is for that to not always be the case. There should be people who murder once and never again, and if you don't catch them eventually the trail goes cold and you give up and file it away in your archive - maybe to revisit it hours later when you learn some new piece of information that makes the old puzzle fit together. There should also definitely be crimes committed with victims who do not know the killer, and targets for side jobs that are not known to the person giving the job. For that matter, it would be nice if sometimes there were multiple non-murder crimes committed by the same perpetrator - strings of thefts, for example, instead of every theft being a one-off side job and the perpetrator always being someone the victim knows. I did catch my second murderer almost immediately and there was no second victim - it was comically easy compared to the first one; the killer left a note at the scene with their fingerprint on it, and I found a match for the print and handwriting in the employee records at the victim's workplace, then a rifle matching the spent casings found at the scene in that person's apartment. Whole thing took maybe 15 minutes. The government database is in a weird position of at times making the game too easy (it is possible to more or less skip entire cases by brute-forcing the game) while also at times absolutely needed to identify targets that would otherwise be more or less impossible to track down. There are currently just too few tools at your disposal, and the main tool you do have is too broad. There should be searchable medical records at hospital wards, arrest records and fingerprint databases in enforcer stations, customer records at businesses, receipts for transactions, more emails covering more subjects that sometimes reveal useful clues about a person's actions or habits. Let me take an unidentified blood sample from a crime scene and bring it back to city hall for analysis, then check a database of blood donors or organ donors to see if we get any hits for someone matching the description of my suspect with that blood type. The most important thing about all of these is that they should all be limited - the medical records at a doctor's office are limited to patients there, for example. Right now the most difficult part of the investigation is getting a name, and once you have a suspect's name you essentially have everything. Mister Bates fucked around with this message at 14:46 on May 1, 2023 |
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May 1, 2023 05:55
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It sounds like maybe part of that may be in development for the future? No idea. Here's what the roadmap on the Steam page is:  "Cheats and liars" sounds like it's going expand NPC dialog to be from "I either aggressively tell you nothing or the absolute truth" into possibly lying to you, which will help muddy the water on some of these things. No idea what the "new building" or "new side job" would be but possibly tracking down infidelity? Social class update and murderer drop I have no idea what they are other than maybe refining NPC interactions between themselves to take into account social standing and then maybe a large update/overhaul to murderers, meaning maybe we'll get our unrelated murders and such? I really do have high hopes for this even though early access' track record is on par with asset flips I swear to God. What's there is fun and I would argue that at $20 (or the current 10% discount) it's easily worth it for a fun little proof of concept you can freely poke and prod at, even if a good chunk of it is rough.
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May 1, 2023 14:03
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The social class update probably has to do with the social credit system. Right now I don't think it does anything except maybe make cases harder as you climb higher and also let you retire when you hit 10. Speaking of, I hit 10 and retired last night. I was playing on normal (difficulty determines xp/lvl'ing rate) and it took just under 34 hours, but that's with a lot of faffing about, especially when cases started to get really hard, and also I had murderer pathing issues and didn't have a murder happen for maybe a third of the playthrough. There's sort of an ending, really just a zooming camera shot, but it also crashed right after so maybe I missed something. It's early access so I suspect there just isn't a proper ending yet, which isn't surprising at all. I played on the smallest map, randomly generated, just 3 x 3 neighborhood and that really amped up repeat characters in cases and also my detective just knowing everything about half the populace from diving into employee records and such. I had a case where one of the clues was "first name starts with J", so I went to city hall and went through all the J-names. The culprit was like Jun Han or something, but because they were so low alphabetically that meant I knew everyone in town whose name started with J. It's a bit funny how the side-jobs are worth 100 social credit points and the murders are 250 when the murders become much easier to solve later on when the side jobs are just "take a picture of the man with glasses, but no beard, and O- blood. Murders were just: find print that shouldn't be in apartment, get the employee records, ah, it was Jon. Except for that outdoor case I had, which I really only solved by taking long enough for them to kill again and thus leave more evidence. Think I'll start a 5 x 5 map, although I'm a bit worried about it affecting performance on my...gently caress, 8 year old PC...I guess the gpu is like 5 years old...I should upgrade.
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May 1, 2023 15:10
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Brightman posted:The social class update probably has to do with the social credit system. Right now I don't think it does anything except maybe make cases harder as you climb higher and also let you retire when you hit 10. I believe it has an impact on how willing people are to talk with you.
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May 1, 2023 15:14
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The larger city sizes definitely keep the game interesting for longer just because there are too many people for you to consistently brute-force solutions - the largest city size has like 700 people in it, and even after working many cases and playing dozens of hours there's still likely going to be hundreds of people you know absolutely nothing about. I have collected exhaustively detailed records on every other person who lives in my apartment building, because a good PI should know their home territory, but doing that for every building is just infeasible. So far the side jobs have consistently been more interesting puzzles than the murder cases themselves. The first series of murders ended in an annoying anticlimax and solving it didn't feel particularly satisfying, the information I collected never quite came together and all of the careful detective work I had done meant nothing in the face of just guessing the literal first name in the victim's address book and that wrapping it up immediately. That is a real shame, because collecting that information was really compelling! Scouring CCTV camera feeds for fleeting glimpses of my target, matching times, asking around for eyewitness testimony, investigating and discarding possible leads, that was a ton of fun! I ended up going through four possible suspects before finding the actual killer, and investigating them and ruling them out as possibilities was neat, but actually finding the guy felt like kind of a letdown. The second murder was so straightforward it barely qualified as a puzzle - even without already knowing any of the people involved, it was still just a matter of checking workplace records for the fingerprint and handwriting on the note left at the scene, and then the murder weapon was just sitting on the perp's desk. Now, the side jobs, there's where it's been interesting. A case to steal something from a target where the only information is their eye color, height, and what building they live in? A case to vandalize an apartment with nothing to go on but the target's phone number? Investigating a theft from an apartment on a floor with no security cameras? Getting a photograph of someone with no information except their blood type and salary? That poo poo has been great. The game is at its best when you don't know who you are looking for yet, and the most interesting challenges the game has offered so far have all been attempts to take that almost-blank 'Unknown Citizen' dossier and fill it in. It's very rough and very early but there is enough in here to whet my appetite and leave me excited for what it will eventually look like, and even in its current state there's a good couple dozen hours of enjoyment to be had out of it I think.
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May 1, 2023 16:11
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Lichtenstein posted:I believe it has an impact on how willing people are to talk with you. Yeah I think you're right but I don't know for certain if it's true or not, like I noticed a bump after the first murder case but idk if that was because the first one was the tutorial or if it's social credit system based. There's a sync disk or two that certainly help with it. Mister Bates posted:Now, the side jobs, there's where it's been interesting. A case to steal something from a target where the only information is their eye color, height, and what building they live in? A case to vandalize an apartment with nothing to go on but the target's phone number? Investigating a theft from an apartment on a floor with no security cameras? Getting a photograph of someone with no information except their blood type and salary? That poo poo has been great. The game is at its best when you don't know who you are looking for yet, and the most interesting challenges the game has offered so far have all been attempts to take that almost-blank 'Unknown Citizen' dossier and fill it in. Yeah, I think the idea is to basically make enough bespoke murder cases that you wouldn't need procedural ones and those cases could be more difficult. Right now the procedural ones kinda feel like a bonus since they're easy and give you more points. So I made a 4 x 4 city, not a 5 x 5, I guess the medium is 4 x 3? I altered the seed to be an old seed throwback, "gargamel". Everything after the last dot seems to be the actual seed with the first bit being the name and the second being the size and such which I don't think you can edit, like you couldn't make a bigger city than the game allows. Not super impressed with the seed but this isn't old minecraft so that's expected. Got 2 parks when I had none before, and two factories instead of one. Also noticed traffic signals which seems odd considering no one drives. Performance seems to be the same as with the 3x3 but pop-in is happening more, I keep running into benches in the middle of the road that weren't there a moment ago and such. Not sure if that's just gonna be a thing or if it's like an initial loading in of the object or something. While waiting on the first murder to happen I did an envelope side job, the office it was in had 3 diamonds, a sync disk, and like 5 upgrades, so I've made a note of Azure Inc. Went to the local pawn shop to hock the diamonds and decide to rummage around their backroom. Noticed in the ledger that a T. Wilborn had just bought some ammo and a revolver. Made a new case, labeled it "precog murder", and pinned him and his address in it to go check-out for funsies. Then the murder happens, so I grab the form at city hall, head over, and wait to sneak inside as one enforcer leaves and another guards the door. Looking around it's the regular murder setup, drawing on the floor, words on the wall, small caliber bullet in the victim. They live alone, there's two sets of prints in the apartment, should be pretty straight forward. Oh, a wadded up paper under the desk near the body? "Let's play a game! NTBILRWO _. ______"....mother fucker, I WAS RIGHT! Like sure that's the easiest case closed clue you can find, but even if I hadn't I would've gone over to T. Wilborn's place first thing just to check. So I get to his place and he's not home, has a nice laser based security system and I can't find the box to turn it off so that makes searching his apt challenging. Find out he's an Enforcer (edit: probably the one that was leaving when I showed up to the scene now that I think about it) who works security at one of the factories. Renamed the case "The ACAB Murder" and went over to the factory to arrest him. Had the murder weapon on him still, so it was an easy 5 out of 5 case. Brightman fucked around with this message at 17:17 on May 1, 2023 |
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May 1, 2023 17:15
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Crime scene was super clean aside from the shell casing and a bullet hole, so the only info to go on was that the murder weapon was an 8mm gun and also that there were size 9 footprints everywhere while the victim was a size 11. My investigation has come down to visiting each of his co-workers, bonking them with a truncheon, and stealing their shoes. I'm really REALLY hoping they weren't my footprints. The first coworker had a history of anger management, a silencer, and numerous boxes of 8mm ammo, but turned out to not be the killer what the hell lady
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May 1, 2023 20:36
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you can get a rough estimate of someone's shoe size by Inspecting them (right-click while looking at them), which can help narrow things down a bit more efficiently than just beating them all unconscious
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May 1, 2023 20:41
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There's also a sync disk that tells you shoe sizes. Or you can break into their apartments and look at their shoes.
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May 1, 2023 20:46
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I just had a vandalism case where I needed to cause damage inside someone's apartment up to a certain value. I bought a truncheon, expecting to need to smash things, but that didn't really work. I was a bit stuck until I got thirsty and opened his fridge, drank some milk, and then accidentally threw the milk at the wall instead of putting it down. The milk caused damage by staining his walls/floor, as did the faux meat that was in the fridge. 10/10 Game of The Year.
Olewithmilk fucked around with this message at 21:29 on May 1, 2023 |
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May 1, 2023 21:26
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As far as I can tell the only thing you can really vandalize by smashing is the windows, otherwise it consists mostly of throwing things on the floor. My preferred method so far has been to grab a bag of garbage from outside and just kind of roll it around on the floor, it's quieter than most of the other things you can throw and is less likely to wake up a sleeping target
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May 1, 2023 21:57
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Olewithmilk posted:I just had a vandalism case where I needed to cause damage inside someone's apartment up to a certain value. I bought a truncheon, expecting to need to smash things, but that didn't really work. I was a bit stuck until I got thirsty and opened his fridge, drank some milk, and then accidentally threw the milk at the wall instead of putting it down. The milk caused damage by staining his walls/floor, as did the faux meat that was in the fridge. 10/10 Game of The Year. throwing people's stuff out the window also counts as vandalism
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May 1, 2023 22:05
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Mister Bates posted:The government database is in a weird position of at times making the game too easy (it is possible to more or less skip entire cases by brute-forcing the game) while also at times absolutely needed to identify targets that would otherwise be more or less impossible to track down. There are currently just too few tools at your disposal, and the main tool you do have is too broad. There should be searchable medical records at hospital wards, arrest records and fingerprint databases in enforcer stations, customer records at businesses, receipts for transactions, more emails covering more subjects that sometimes reveal useful clues about a person's actions or habits. Let me take an unidentified blood sample from a crime scene and bring it back to city hall for analysis, then check a database of blood donors or organ donors to see if we get any hits for someone matching the description of my suspect with that blood type. The most important thing about all of these is that they should all be limited - the medical records at a doctor's office are limited to patients there, for example. Also, at the moment, you can find optician's prescriptions in people's houses, but the actual opticians doesn't exist in-world so you can't go visit it to look for patient records which is something which seems like a no-brainer to implement. I concur with the prevailing opinion (hot take!) that what is here is great -- I would even say it's kinda groundbreaking -- but it's also very much still in Proof Of Concept stage. Things like everyone's e-mails being the same, being completely unable to ask NPCs things like "where do you live", there are a lot of things which feel fundamentally unfinished. I hope he gets enough funding from going Early Access to let him build this into what it clearly has the potential to be, because it is compelling even now.
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May 1, 2023 23:09
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Can't wait until the dating apps are simulated so those emails can be clues or evidence.
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May 2, 2023 01:52
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Dark_Swordmaster posted:Can't wait until the dating apps are simulated so those emails can be clues or evidence. funnily enough they already partially are, the email for a new match points to a person who does actually exist in the world and can be tracked down. I actually went to the trouble of figuring out who it was and going to their house and snooping around on my first murder, investigating them as a potential suspect. Hilariously I have since found that every single new match email, or at least all I have found so far, have matched people to that same person, who is apparently the most romantically desirable woman in the entire city
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May 2, 2023 02:04
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Game wouldn't let me uncuff the owner of the apartment I broke into, so I grabbed their milk and locked the door on my way out  problem solved
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May 2, 2023 03:11
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I got my third murder case! The victim was shot on the street in broad daylight right in front of the sync clinic where she works, with a red heart drawn around her body in lipstick. The lipstick was left on the scene and there was a fingerprint on it. The killer shot her right in front of a CCTV camera and I was able to get a shot of them walking away from the scene. I walked into the victim's workplace to collect more information - ask people if they had seen anything suspicious, pull info from her computer, etc. The person sitting at the desk in the clinic was...the murderer.  Cuffed her right then and there, rifled her pockets, sure enough, a pistol in the caliber the victim was shot with. Grabbed her prints, a match for the lipstick. Took about two and a half minutes to solve. It was honestly really disappointing. A straightforward crime of passion, you don't even need a detective, so open-and-shut that there wasn't anything to detect. I am sure they will, but I hope they eventually implement killers disposing of the murder weapon, or hiding it, or otherwise doing anything at all to cover their tracks. The case would have been complicated a bit if she had just tossed the pistol in the dumpster outside instead of keeping it in her pocket. Being able to lie a bit could have complicated the case, too - if she had admitted to seeing something suspicious and seeing her coworker dead outside, but that she saw someone else do the shooting and then run away, that could have thrown me off the scent a bit - I couldn't see the entire street, it's possible I missed something, right? As-is it was just very funny.
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May 2, 2023 06:59
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It's probably quite a big ask, but I would also really appreciate it if motive was an element. Because at the moment it seems largely arbitrary.
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May 2, 2023 10:58
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Did anyone else play LA noir? Do you recall how you started with fairly inept frauds or crimes of passion, and you developed a routine of what evidence you would look for, what questions you would ask, etc? And you feel competent and professional and you're unraveling the crimes of amateurs, and you feel like a hunter, an apex predator? And then, after hours in the game, you encounter the work of an actual serial killer, someone who is deliberately interacting with you through the crime scene. Who might even be watching you, hidden, as you follow the trail they've left. It was such script flip, and it hit so well because it exposed norms of play that I'd unconsciously developed. That moment was an all time for me and it's possible this game might produce something similar. Agree with everyone that it's not necessarily playable right now, what I've seen in ten or so hours has me excited to see where this is in a year.
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May 2, 2023 14:58
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Gonna wait for a couple more patches I think. The opening case somehow feels buggier than the demo version did. Couldn’t find incriminating evidence at the killer’s apartment (even looked under the bed) despite scanning many fingerprints, which leads me to believe it may simply not have spawned lol
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May 2, 2023 20:26
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The 7th Guest posted:Gonna wait for a couple more patches I think. The opening case somehow feels buggier than the demo version did. Couldn’t find incriminating evidence at the killer’s apartment (even looked under the bed) despite scanning many fingerprints, which leads me to believe it may simply not have spawned lol They want you to search the trash can. The prompt telling you to do this sometimes fails to appear, which is why I also got stuck on that for half an hour.
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May 3, 2023 15:24
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Honestly I feel like the tutorial case, while a good handholding experience into the mechanics and thought processes of the game, sets expectations way too high. The actual cases and gameplay are nothing like it, obviously due to procgen instead of a handmade thing.
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May 3, 2023 16:43
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Right, I want proc gen veneer customizing hand written dialogue and plot beats. I don't need to play mediocre LA noire for 100 hours. Think something like Frost Punk, where it feels random and infinite but really these beats are hand crafted.
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May 3, 2023 16:55
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The_White_Crane posted:They want you to search the trash can. The prompt telling you to do this sometimes fails to appear, which is why I also got stuck on that for half an hour.
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May 3, 2023 17:21
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There may also be more than one trash can.
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May 3, 2023 17:38
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this time the receipt appeared. that didn't tell me i was done searching the place though. lol. what else do you want game. i found the heels, the note about the victim's friend and address, the weird 'praise uncle' letter. in a different savegame, she was actually home and left her gun on the table and despite getting a print off it and inspecting it, the game still told me i was not done in the apartment lol e: in the end i solved it but i couldn't get a fingerprint off the murderer and so even though her fingerprints were the only one on her wallet and the evidence i submitted was the fingerprint inside the safe, that wasn't good enough. lol The 7th Guest fucked around with this message at 19:29 on May 3, 2023 |
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May 3, 2023 18:55
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if you can answer all the questions on your murder homework then you're done
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May 3, 2023 19:19
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Does a caught murderer leave the game world? Do new people come into a city? Would a city eventually depopulate?
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May 3, 2023 20:03
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Jack B Nimble posted:Does a caught murderer leave the game world? Do new people come into a city? Would a city eventually depopulate? I'm not sure what happens with the caught murders. I think the cities would depopulate, but that'd only be a problem in real small cities and you should have long since retired. As people said, I'm hoping for a couple of things: 1) They use this as a base for having proc gen missions but also some written beats 2) Expansion of the apartment customisation 3) Much more variety in the emails/paraphenalia people have in their apartments Does anyone know what the motive is for the tutorial mission I could not find the murderer's cruncher code, I asked around the canteen where the murderer/victim met up but had no idea why he was murdering who he was murdering.
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May 3, 2023 21:26
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Do cases even have motive at the moment? None of the ones I've seen seem to have anything approaching actual sense or intent behind them, it just feels like they pick a random citizen and a random person they know and make murder happen.
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May 3, 2023 22:30
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alright so my first side job involved tracking down a prop gun from a movie. ok. i go to the victim's apartment, wait a billion hours for them to actually show up to their apartment-- i can't just wait in front of their door so i have to leave the building to find a bench where i can pass time which for some reason has to be done in a slow-rear end fast forward instead of just... idk, skipping time. After getting the vague details from them, they say that they've written up all the info they have to be helpful..... and then.... nothing happens. The conversation ends and I don't get that written info. I try talking to them again, and they say they haven't seen anything or anyone suspicious and just give the boilerplate NPC responses to every question... cool. Still, it's a stolen item case so it's as simple as finding the fingerprint that doesn't belong in the safe, going to the person's place of business and matching a fingerprint to another employee, then going to that employee's apartment and finding the gun in THEIR safe. fine. cool. I'm supposed to take it back to the original owner's mailbox and put it in there, so I do. the game for some reason doesn't register that I've done it and leaves that unchecked in the resolve file. I have no way to finish the case other than cancelling it. just 2-3 hours of my time wasted, whee again, i was hyping this game up in the Steam thread so I really want it to be good, but the bugs are driving me crazy. is there something I'm supposed to do in a stolen item case once I've put the item in the owner's mailbox? do I talk to them again at their apartment?? do I go to city hall (which I thought was just murder cases)? i tried calling their number again and they just gave the same 'please come help me' that started the case. the game needs a serious injection of elegance.
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May 4, 2023 06:10
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